TWTaylor

Hello Jasoncrane, interesting about not knowing the day or hour of the Lord’s coming. I’ve talked to timfrompa before and he has a lot of understanding.

How many of you have tried the numbers to see what a seven is? I never could get the numbers to come out right. The first thing I thought was a seven was a Jubilee but that don’t work. I haven’t tried this, but could a seven mean a generation? (70 years) Dan 9:25 says "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. So 69 weeks gets us to when the Messiah arrives or gets here (about the year 1, maybe a little before). Then after the 69 (after 69 is 70) He makes a covenant. Then In the middle of the seven (about 35 years old) He is cut off ( Killed) Then it talks about the Sanctuary (Temple) being destroyed. (70AD) A whole generation. 26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

Floatingaxe, Are you redeemed? If you are you are of Israel. Only Israel are the firstfruits to be redeemed Rev 7 and Rev 14. If you are a gentile you will go through the tribulation, Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Who told you, that you were not of Israel? Without seeing you I would bet a nickel you are of Joseph or Rubin. Descendants of Israel number as the sand of the seashore. I am of Israel, I live in the land of Ephraim, and you are right, I will not be raptured. I have to stay here. But I have not rejected my God.

Hey Floatingaxe, I am sorry, I could have used kinder words. I also don’t mean to be openly pretty, or openly goofy, although some women do stare at me and giggle. I will Quote Montana Marv for your answer "Jacob's Trouble", Remember that Jacob is Israel

Hey Montana Marv, I see you can count to three, or understand what I was saying. Some people don’t even think about it. Sorry about getting a little of the subject, but I think all the bible is all tied together. These people in Rev 3 are the church in Philadelphia They are the same ones Rev 7 and Rev 14 that have been given the Father’s name. They don’t have to go anywhere, when they are given the Father’s name they are protected from the evil one (Satan) (John 17:15) They have to be here during the tribulation to take care of God’s household, they are the firstfruits, sealed during the opening of the 6th seal, just before the start of the Great Tribulation. These are all from Israel (Rev 7) If you are not of Israel, what are you? Rev 3:10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Rev 3:11 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. Rev 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. John 17:15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one

You need to explain what you are talking about. ? Do you mean you can count three days and three nights from Friday sunset until Sunday before sunrise. As for the rapture, it would be nice to exit the earth to avoid being tested and refined as gold (I really don’t think so, I'll stay for the test) unless someone can show some scriptures, I have to think the world is deceived.

Hey Floatingaxe, I find the definition of '(h)arpazo', found in scripture fits what is described as the first resurrection. Remember that Christ said in John 17:15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. Just a thought, and not aiming anything at anyone. When The disciples ask Christ about His return in Matthew 24, The first thing He warned His disciples was to Take heed that no one deceives you. He was talking to His disciples about them being deceived. The only way I know how to keep from being deceived is through knowledge. (Maybe someone knows of another way) I know I don’t have the knowledge of the disciples so I know not to say I can’t be deceived. I have had to repent. (Change) If there was something, say the Great Tribulation, and we were told to prepare for it by our God. How would Satan deceive a lot of people so they would die? Maybe start a rumor that we would be taken out of the way, no need to get ready. I find a lot of people are easy to deceive, Christ gave one sign, that he would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, People just believe without question that there are 3 days and 3 nights from Friday at sunset til Sunday morning before sunrise. I bet Satan laughs about that one. Matt 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age? Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you.

The Abomination of Desolation has been standing in the holy place for1,326 years. Daniel says it will be there for 1,335 years. The word day in Daniel 12:11 and 12 can also mean year.

Hello His Ambassador, I believe that if we find we are wrong about something we should repent. (change to what is correct) I think you for your concern. And I think Montana Marv for trying to show where he gets his beliefs about the rapture. I don’t remember anybody trying to answer where the scriptures are. It’s good to have friendly people that will try to help. I understand the rapture started with a dream of a young Scottish girl and a preacher took off with it. I have nothing against Scottish girls, I an also Scottish.

This sure sounds like the first resurrection to me. Might need to show me something else to go with it. 1Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 1Thes 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. This group that will always be with the Lord are talked about in other places. There is a group that is with the Lord, they are found in Rev 14. They follow Christ wherever He goes, but this is a small group, only 144,000. These are the firstfruits, It sounds like the same Elect to me. Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads. Rev 14:3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. Rev 14:4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Matt 24:30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matt24:31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. I started to write a article about the rapture a few years ago. I was going to put all the scripture I could find in support of the rapture, then put all the scripture that supported no rapture. I couldn’t find any support for a rapture, just debate about when a rapture would happen. These people we are talking about belong to Christ. These people are Servants of God. These are Virgins. These are the Firstfruits, these don’t have the Mark of the Beast. John 17 tells how to know if we are a part of those that belong to Christ. They will be kept safe by the Father’s Name, Christ says that He has given the Father’s name to them. John 17:6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. John 17:11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. John 17:15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. John 17:26 "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

Hello, Just thought you might want to know the truth about a common misconception/myth. The so-called 7 year tribulation is not biblical. Yes, Daniel's 70th week will be seven years, but there is no mention of any such tribulation before the abomination of desolation, which occurs in the middle of the week. Both, the time of trouble in Dan.12:1 and the tribulation in Matt.24:15-28 occur after the abomination of desolation. The rapture (gathering of the elect) will occur immediately after the tribulation of those days (Matt.24:29-31), which will also be shortened for the elects sake (Matt.24:21-22) and no one know the day and hour, except God our Father. Hello Rolling Thunder, There is nothing that says the Great Tribulation will be 7 years or 3 ½ years. There is only one scripture that says anything about how long a tribulation will be, "you will have tribulation ten days", ( Rev 2:10) Great Tribulation means big or long Tribulation, but if the Tribulation was 10 years, it would have had to start in 2012.

I see a lot of debate here and other forums about when there will be a RAPTURE. Can anyone help a person like me with some scriptures that say there is going to be a rapture. I don’t see anything in the bible that says there is going to be a rapture. It looks like people might be confusing or not understanding the 1st resurrection.

I personally don't know of any nonbelievers that search the scriptures looking for answers. And if they are not a part of that little flock, does it really matter if they accept or reject the mark? Just a thought. Hey Man, There will be a great multitude that come to Christ during the Great Tribulation. Nobody with the mark will be there. Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Hey Man, I totally agree with you. You are absolutely correct. “A true child of God cannot be deceived into accepting the Mark.” It is those that are not part of that little flock that need to search the scriptures and find out what that old “mark” is so they can reject or avoid it. To keep from being deceived, learn the subject, so they understand. Luke 12:31 "But seek the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you. Luke 12:32 "Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Hey Other One, I agree with you totally. Satan can’t snatch us out of the Father’s hand if we are Christ’s. All that are Christ’s are kept or protected through the Father’s name. John 17: 11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. People that are not sure they are protected by the Father's name, better find out what that name is that Christ has declared to us. and what that mark is. John 17:26 "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

The “Mark of the Beast is a physical mark, it is also is a way of life and worship. If I tell you what it is you won’t believe me, it is best you find out for yourself, but I can help. The first thing is how you get this “Mark”. People are deceived into taking it, not forced, they take it because they think it is the right thing to do. When a person is deceived, they don’t know they are deceived. The way to keep from being deceived is to know what it is. Rev 19:20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. The next thing is that it is The “Mark” of the “BEAST”. The beast has a “mark” that he marked what was his with. So who could this beast be? Some don’t seem to understand what or who a Beast is, Rev 17 tells us there are seven mountains, (governments, big kingdoms, empires). And seven kings, or rulers. In verse 11 we see that the “Beast” that was (the 7th) is also the 8th and is also of the 7. Rev 17:9 "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. Rev 17:10 "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. Rev 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. I find all these kingdoms or Empires have one thing in common that made them a beast, they ruled over Israel. They were, 1 Egypt 2 Assyria 3 Babylon 4 Persia 5 Greece 6 Rome 7 Christian Rome, or Constantine Rome 8 Constantine Rome again, or the EU If you notice in verse 10 it says “ Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. The one that is, or was at that time, number 6 was Rome. The one to come was Constantine, he changed the Empire. We can talk more about the scriptures he fulfilled if anyone is interested. If Constantine is 7th “Beast” or the 1st Beast of Rev 13, He would have to have a “Mark” Can you find it? And would it have to be the “Mark” of the “Beast” that people would be deceived into taking?

Ezekiel 7 is sent to Israel, Israel was gone into captivity for about 200 years. Verse 19 tells us the time is “In the day of the wrath of the Lord.” The end time.

From what I see on this thread, the only law in the 10 commandments that there is a problem with is the 4th one. The answer is yes. We are under the New Covenant The old Covenant is over, the rewards are over. If you keep them all, it is not enough to get you into God’s Kingdom, but, Christ said to enter into life “you must keep the commandments.” (Matt 19:17) Jer 31:31 - 34 and Hebrews 8: 8 - 11 Heb 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah- 9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. The covenant is over, -- The laws were transferred over and put the laws in our mind and write them on their heart. The problem commandment is the Sabbath, the sign you are God’s people. Who would want you not to have the sigh that you belong to God? Ezek 20:12 "Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

Hey Kingdomwitness, I believe you are right. The 7th beast of Rev 17 was the Constantine Roman Empire, killed by the Ottman Turks in 1353 (?) The 8th, of the 7 and is the Constantine Roman empire again, The EU. 10 "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 "And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

Hey Kingdomwitness, Christ returns Immediately after the tribulation. We are not going to escape the Great Tribulation. We better be getting ready. The tribulation is upon us. Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Matt 24:30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

There is some differences in the translations phrase, with one or two words different. The meaning of these different words make a big difference in the meaning. There may be someone on this forum that can give us the true translation. Some bible translations say, The abomination that maketh desolation The abomination that causes desolation The abomination of desolation I mostly use the New King James Version, and it says, “The abomination of desolation” and I find it is the only one that fits the rest of the scriptures. If you are looking for a abomination that makes or causes desolation then the abomination would have to be the Roman army that destroy the city and the sanctuary in 70AD. Daniel 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. If we are looking for the Abomination of Desolation then it is a different meaning. Christ was ask a question in Matthew 24:3, You should start reading from Matt 24:1 to find they were coming out of the temple, when Christ told them the temple would be destroyed – not one stone left upon another, then when they got to the Mount of Olives Christ was ask when these things would happen, including the end of the age. Christ answered them in verse 15, when He sent them to Daniel. Matt 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 25:15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), When you see the 'abomination of desolation, I think the key here is the word SEE, when you see it standing there, not when it is placed there, as in Dan 11:31 Or set up in Dan 12:11. Dan 11:31 "And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. Dan 12:11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Daniel 12 is all about the end of the age, and Daniel didn’t understand what he was told and wrote. Verse 1 to 4 talks about the time of trouble, (Great Tribulation) and at the end, the resurrection. I’ll just go ahead and put the whole chapter, and explain. Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. 4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase." 5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" In verse 7 we are told the first time when the end will be, (in a time, times and a half a time) 1 time + another time=Times, and a half a time = 2 ½ Times. A time here is 1,000 years. In verse 7 we are also told a 2nd time when the end will come, “when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.” For this one you will have to know who the holy people are. 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished. 8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?" 9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Some will understand, some will not. 10 "Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand. 11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. This date of 1,290 is already past, I think it was the beginning of the last Jubilee. 12 "Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. This might have been a abomination, but it was about 2 hundred years before Christ told us to watch for it, and they just cleaned the temple up and kept going. When the temple was destroyed in 70AD, the Temple Mount became desolate, and stayed desolate until 687 when a bad abomination was set up there, A monument to a false god, and it has been standing there for 1,326 years. OH, what was that other number? 1,335. It is getting close, and the Great (long) Tribulation still has to fit in there somewhere.

Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. Until the Messiah is the 7+62=69 Dan 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. 7 + 62 = 69. The next verse says “after the sixty-two weeks” (69) and after 69 is 70. During the first half of the 70th week the Messiah is cut off, (killed). At the end of the 70th week the Roman army came and destroyed the city and the sanctuary. The war with the Romans continue until the Messiah returns. (the battles are kinda far apart, six million Jews killed in WW2) Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. Just explaining a little more in Dan 9:27. The Messiah confirmed the new covenant in the 70th week, The Messiah is killed in the middle of the 70th week and ends the sacrifice and offering. Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate." The wing of abominations == The thing that led the Roman army was a eagle, with it’s wings spread, the Standard, like we use a flag in our army. The eagle is a abomination that leading the Roman army. Lev 11:13 'And these you shall regard as an abomination among the birds; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, the vulture, the buzzard, The subject was the Messiah and the city, and the time period of 70 weeks or seventy sevens, how some people can read something else in, I don’t understand.