gray wolf

The title of this topic Reminds me of a Far Side cartoon - the one with the short scientist pushing his "little bang" theory

I have to agree here

Very good post.

Yes, I always remember that when I point my finger, three others are pointing back at me. I am not giving up.

The churches I've been in are rather cautious with small groups with concerns about small groups becoming cliques and taking away from the central function of the local church. But to 1to3's analysis, I have found the Catholic Church better organized in respect to needs. One of the essential ministries is what they call faith formation, where support groups and bible studies and learning occur. In particular, seniors find vibrant engagement. We could learn a thing or two from them and be better equipped. Yes I realize that there is doctrinal error in the Catholic church, but just for the sake of discussion it is helpful to compare. That being said, I also experienced the lack of willingness to form friendships there as well. As an aside, I should mention that the most caring, honest and open fellowship I have encountered is not at church but in the recovery groups I participate in as an alcoholic. I sometimes wince at talk of a Higher Power, but have found a nice amalgam at churches that have adopted the programs.

I think churches are wonderful places to worship and the believers are for the most part fine people. I just have never been able to find a real friend in the place where you think it would make sense.

I have been a believer for about 37 years and I've come to a realization that church is not where you find true friendship. Everyone enjoys getting together to worship, and so do I, but no one is interested in say, getting together for lunch now and then. And when personal crises arise, church family is not the place to find support. I have from time to time tried to reestablish relationships with fellow believers that I've known in the past, but they couldn't care less. When I stopped going to church in two instances due to discouragement, not even the pastors followed up with me. I recently saw the movie God's Not Dead and it hit the nail on the head without really meaning to. When the Muslim girl was thrown out of the house by her father, she turned to a pastor for help. As she sat in his office, obviously hurting, the only thing he offered was a weak smile and some pious advice. He did not ask her where she was going to go, what she would do, even if she had a place to stay. Oh yes, his assistant hugged the girl and offered her superficial encouragement. I will continue to attend church to worship God, but I see it as a social club and generally feel- good preaching, not a place to turn when I am looking for true fellowship or hurting. I have cultivated relationships with non evangelical people and nonbelievers and value my family more than ever. And of course most importantly, with Christ my King. I don't know if anyone else feels the same way or has had a similar experience, but I think this is a sad state of affairs.

There are other uses for knowledge, yes?

Hehehehehe! I've always wanted to meet one of the four Horsemen!

THE Sam Harris? Get outta here!!!!

Good stuff, thanks

I will do just that thank you

How do renew our minds?

I recently made the acquaintance of a pleasant gentlemen at my church and we got together for dinner. He revealed to me a new concept: that of spirit, mind, and body. I had always thought in terms of mind, body, spirit, but this is something different. The spirit, he explained, is our nature, our being that is alive in Christ. Our soul is our mind and emotions. Our body is our body and is carnal. He went on to explain that part of the problem Christians experience with ongoing sin is not from our old nature, which is dead, but our misunderstanding of our inward spirit. This sounds very radical to me, almost unorthodox. The church is rather fundamentalist and Bible believing, but I have never encountered this before. I am willing to be open minded about it, but my question is is this established truth, or is it a new set of ideas? Perhaps it is a way to deal with the many struggles I've had in faith over the years.

Yes yes yes! And my sincere thanks to all those who have shared their thoughts with me on this question. Daniel

I LOVE that song.

I don't have an issue with what you're sayng. I was just interested in what others experience. Scripture reading, prayer and witnessing seem to me a bit more like exercise actually. My flesh doesn't want to do it, but boy do I feel better afterwards and healthier. It is in line with what Paul advised in 1 Timothy 4:8

Thanks everyone for your input. I do want to read the Bible and pray. But I just do not enjoy it and that is okay. I memorize and study seminary work. And I was not actually raised Catholic, lol. Daniel

I am a very devout believer. I go to church and worship often, I have been saved, I seek God's will continually, I walk with Christ daily and I share Him with others. But here is the thing: although I read the Scriptures twice a day and pray frequently, I don't really enjoy it. I know that I am commanded to do it and that I must to live in Christ. Yet I cannot affirm that I wholeheartedly take pleasure in it but view them as essential duties. Is there something wrong here?

My point was that Sagan was a man of some humility who led many to pursue science. I don't know what impact his religious views had on them, but hopefully they were astute enough to make up their own minds.

I think the best type of scientists are those who inspire their students and open them up to the awesome world of science and knowledge. Carl Sagan was one of these. The best professors I had in college were brilliant, yet approachable.

I think that's a very good policy

I consider myself Christian and am part of the "RCC"

I am using the term because it and miicroevolution are tossed about in discussion and debate. I don't know if they are really separate processes or just one comprehensive one. I don't know enough about the subject.

while I agree that the overwhelming physical evidence of speciation points to evolution, you are totally correct that if one is to argue against a point, one should understand it. Most of the time creationists come off looking very ignorant of the science of evolution. That hurts their argument. Jerry, I'm curious as to how speciation would point to evolution? I've pointed out to you before, almost no creationsits believe that there were tigers, lions, cougars, cheetahs, etc. on the ark, but that there was some pair of cats with a genome that had great potential for genetic diversity and since then speciation has occured to give us the diversity we see amoung the various cat species today. If both explainations require speciation to be viable, how can it be evidence for one of them over and against the other? But I thought speciation is evidence of macroevolution, which many argue does not occur.