Gideon

Brother, I understand if you must move on. May God be with you. blessings, Gids

1) Do you think the devil loves to see Christians bicker about whether musical instruments are allowed in church? Infant baptism? Following the sabbath? OSAS? How many change their minds? Christian doctrinecis profitable IF it leads to a deeper abiding. If it does not, what is its purpose? The smokescreen I refer to is satan's appeal to our intellect grabbing hold of doctrine..... any doctrine..... rather than our heart crying out for wisdom so thwt we can walk pleasing to God, growing up into Him in all things. 3) Doctrines are not to give us assurance, but are to lead us to Christ who then assures us by indwelling us, causing us to obey Him and to become fruitful. This leads directly to #7. Believing in Him can be done by demons. Believing ON Him requires us to stop believing ON us. It is very possible to believing in Him with our heads, yet our hearts may not even be in the equation. Faith is not an exercise in mental assent with our brains. Faith is a gift God gives to a yielded heart. blessings, Gids

May I ask you, Leah. Were the Laodecians overcomers? Were the Laodecians the true church? God counseled them and addressed them as His body and yet urged them as to their need to repent and to overcome. If this be the case, then what many are believing, that we are overcomers even if we are overcome by sin is a false understanding of the truth. Was Paul walking in victory as an overcomer in Romans 7? No. He was imprisoned by sin and self. He did not pat himself on the back, telling himself he was an overcomer, He cried out to God to deliver him from his body of death....his old nature. And God did! blessings to you, Leah, Gideon

I would be glad to. 1) Not at all. The discussion of who election works is a worthy discussion. However, with that said, I do feel like we can fall into a trap of majoring on the minors, and miss the more important task of examining ourselves whether we truly be in the faith, where Christ's character is grown in us. The 'smokescreen' I referred to is not one created by those discussing and defending their point of view, but is subtly piped in by our enemy. This then leads directly to your second question. 2) Do I believe such discussion are from the devil? Absolutely not. As I just stated, discussions like this can be profitable, but can also lead us into a place where we are content simply knowing about God rather than knowing Him. Does that make sense? The devil loves to get us so involved with our theology and doctrines, and he most likely enjoys seeing the endless debates that change no one. This can also be said about other often debated doctrines. Could I have substituted the battle over faith without works vs. faith shown by works? Absolutely. The truth is, when I made mu OP, I had just read a post on Calvinism and it was fresh in my mind. I hope this persuades those thinking I am anti-doctrine or anti-posters who discuss doctrine that this was not my intent at all. However, concerning our desire for others to see why our doctrine is THE doctrine, we seem to have arrived in our Christianity where good doctrine is the ultimate goal, rather than good doctrine being the stepping stone to leading us to a deeper place in God where we truly are walking in palpable victory. Men get their doctrine down, drive an immovable stake, defend it at all costs, and very few, once they think they understand correct doctrine, seem to ever change directions or go on to walking as an overcomer, full of fruits that display Christ. I have known a few, but they are rare. Unfortunately, for many, if not most, they never seem to get to the point they are abiding in the vine, where they do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. They think correct doctrine is the goal, so once they think they have "it", they stop seeking. That fact should give us great pause. The reality that such is not the case, and we are as a whole content right where we are should give us even more pause. If abiding in the vibe is possible, then victory over the influence of the world, our fleshly nature and the devil himself is as well. God did not give us this hope as a carrot on a stick, providing us with a target to aim for but never hit. If Paul told us it is actually possible to bring every thought into obedience, then surely this includes our actions as well, amen? We must ask ourselves "Is our human condition an excuse for not walking with sin under our feet or not?" If so, then the promises of God can truthfully be chucked out the window with yesterday's leftovers, for no matter how wonderful they are, our fallen nature will keep us resorting to using grace as an excuse for failure, rather than our reason for why we can actually overcome. Grace is far bigger than we have realized..... but we are about to discover how amazing and thorough God's salvation is. I hope this helps. blessings to you, David. Gids

Let me see if I can help here. The "we" is the term I use for the entire body of Christ. when I male a statement as to the "we", it is not meant as an attack on every single saint. We are one body. As a whole, we are pretty much divided, and few are walking in the. glorious loverty of the children of God. Does my use of the word "we" then apply to all? As individuals, no. Each one of us is walking at a certain level. Are the majority walking in victory? No. Are some? Thank God yes. However, generally, I have found that these are in no way offended by the use of the word "we", for they too see our lack as a whole, and long to see it changed? Which brings me to the next point. As a body, we are all in this together. If the body is weak, the one who is walking in victory is still weak, collectively. We are not lone rangers. We are ONE body If one reads the words of exhortation I offer, and reads the word "we" and their hearts do not see that it applies to them, then praise God. To these, I ask forbearance, that they do not take it as an insult, for it is never meant to be such. There is a verse in the old testament, saying to paraphrase that Gods blessibgs are withheld because every man looks after his own house and no own is looking after the house of the Lord. WE are the house of the Lord, and overall, we are sickly, divided, defeated and in shambles. Are some better off than others? Absolutely. Hower, we must fear a mentality that says "I am ok, even if you are not, so it is no. big deal." No, it IS a big deal because it is a big deal to God. We must look at the overall health of the church and let the weight of the lack of overcoming in our body as a whole drive us to prayer, to cry out "Let not the heathen rule over thy people to bring them to reproach." We are in this together. If I am doing fine, am I still part of the "we" that needs revival? Oh, yes. Absolutely. I am most definitely in the "we" of which I speak. I pray this helps, dear brother. blessings to you, Alive Gideon.

If the supposed inference is explained by the poster as not meaning what the reader inferred that it meant, and the reader continues to infer the meaning as an insult, it is no longer a language issue but an issue of taking offense even when there was none. Can we not walk together in agreement on this matter? Gideon

The spell check police will get you. Arminianism. You are welcome. LOL. Gids

I am searching for a clapping emoji. LOL. Here, this oughta do. ? blessings to you, David Gids

I agree. They have not. You have taken offense when none was meant. I explained that. You still demand a retraction, as opposed to letting it go. I have shared again the gist of my original post, and you have remained silent on that, ignoring it and instead still concentrating on perceiving an insult when none was meant. What do I believe about the Calvin vs the Arminian debate? I do believe that multitudes have debated back and forth on who is called, who is not, instead of seeking God for the assurance that comes from Him. How is that assurance given? How do we KNOW we have passed from death to life? By the fruits that such abiding promises to bring forth. "And hereby we know that we know Him: if we keep His commandments. He that saith, “I know Him,” and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4 Now this immediately puts us on edge, feeling we are being pulled backwards into legalism. But that is not the case at all. If God has promised that under His new covenant that He will cause us to walk in obedience, and He has (Ezekiel 36), then our obedience is not a result of our strenuous efforts to earn or keep our salvation, but simply God doing what He promised He would do in us amen? If a man or woman is walking with the Lord, obedience will follow. Fruits will follow. This brings me back to the gist of my OP. If we are finding this is not the case in our walk with the Lord,, if obedience lacking in our lives, if we have but few fruits to show after walking in the Lord for even many years, something is wrong. We are forced to try to assure ourselves doctrinally that we are saved, even when our lives are not testifying to God dwelling in us. We can read that there is no condemnation, but how many saints battle feeling condemnation every single day. Our solution? Read the scripture again. There is a better way. There is an answer to all this, but how few want to seek it. Many would rather tussle over scriptures and have endless unprofitable arguments, rather than admit that God promises we will overcome darkness in our lives because we have been made light, and that if we are not overcoming darkness, a piece of our puzzle is missing. Thank God a change is coming. I understand that if whatI am sharing is the truth. it is not a pleasant place to find oneself. For some who have served the Lord for years, it is a hard thing to admit they are missing something, and the something is BIG. I get it. But...... when a man or woman gets desperate to truly walk in holiness as an overcomer, victorious over the world, the flesh snd the devil, and realizes as well that they simply cannot do it in their current circumstances, they are finally ready to receive from God the power to walk as the new creatures they already are. Being right as to calvinism or arminianism does nothing to help one walk in victory. God must live inside us as new creatures, causing us to obey, for us to see that accomplished. We are told that for two to walk together they must be agreed. Is it not time we finally agreed with God that we ARE new creatures? And if that is true, satan has no more authority over us. He has no hook into us any longer. We are finally and forever hooked to God. And when we "make our tree good" by our declaration of faith that the old us truly did die, and that since we are no longer in the flesh, we owe it NOTHING, joy, peace and the full assurance of faith will flood our souls. blessings, dear brother Gideon

This is an interesting post with lots to discuss. Would it first be possible for us to agree on what walking as an overcomer looks like? Can you define for me how you think it looks? Then, once we get on the same page wording-wise, we can dig into what you shared, and I see some opportunities for some great dialogue. Thanks David. blessings, Gideon

You are determined to make this a fight, and I will say again, your taking offense is missing the point of this post. God loves all of His children, Calvinists, those who cling to Arminianism, and those who do not even know what these terms represent. He longs to bring every one of them into full liberty from the grip of sin and self ruling the roost. That is the purpose of my OP, not to disparage as you have stated many times, but to bless. If any are still walking in bondage to sin, and find satan never flees when they try to resist, then something is wrong, not with the truth of the gospel but with our understanding of it. When any of God's beloved children read these words, they can either get offended that my post somehow seems to insinuate that their understanding may be flawed, or, they may fall before God and cry out in prayer.. "I am your child but I am still missing the HOW of walking in fruitfulness and holiness. I cannot walk in defeat any longer. I want my life to bring honor to your name. Show me what I lack and set me free indeed as you defined it.... free from committing sin. Please, dear Father, do as you have promised and CAUSE ME to walk as your obedient, joy filled child. Amen" God will resist the proud, but will hear the heart cry of any hungry child wanting bread. Of that we can be assured. blessings, dear brother Gids

Have you ever read the scripture that tells us ".. but it did not profit them not being mixed with faith in them that heard it"? The very answer is included in the scripture you offered... and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Was the church of Laodecia walking as overcomers? A man walking as an overcomer, when he is tempted, resists satan steadfast in the faith. The result? He does not yield, his shield of faith quenches the arrow meant to cause him to fall, and satan flees from him. If we were automatically overcomers, why have the epistles at all? Why encourage us to holiness, to keep our bodies under. Positionally, we are all new creatures. Experientially, how few there are found walking in the benefit of that truth. I urge all who are reading this thread, to honestly examine your walk to see if, practically speaking, you are walking with your shield of faith actually protecting you, keeping you from falling, causing you to walk in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. If not, God desires to make it real for you. It is when we tire of assuring ourselves of what God declares, and long for it to become our actual reality, that we shall escape the land of 'healed only slightly', and discover what it is to actually walk in the reality and fullness of 'the glorious liberty of the children of God'. blessings to you, David Gideon

You seem determined to cherry-pick points from my OP to argue about, while seemingly strangely quiet about the main singular point of my post. Let me clarify for you. It was not to disparage either Calvinism or Aminianism. It was not to disparage seeking to have correct doctrine. So what exactly was I trying to get across? It was to point out that having Christ in us is supposed to bring forth Christ's character in us. This is how we KNOW we are in Him, because we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Instead, We bring forth spiritual fruits. In some, I suspect their immediate reaction to this is most likely outrage, thinking I am preaching legalism, and thus casting doubt upon whether or not we are saved. Why do our minds go there? Simple. It is because we somehow think that not sinning and bringing forth fruits that reveal Christ's character in us are OUR responsibility. We think, erroneously, that we are to be our own potters. Boy, are we wrong. ? Why do we continue to languish in sin? Why are there so few fruits in our lives identifying us as His children? Why does the world see us as a bunch of religious hypocrites? The Bible tells us. We are healed, but only slightly. Listen. God does nothing half way. He wants to save us to the uttermost. He not only has promised to forgive us, but also to change us, deliver us, free us, transform us, to sanctify us wholly, body, soul and spirit. . He wants to make us branches in Him full of Spiritual fruits. And here is the kicker. HE wants to do it, for He is the only one who can! Do I talk about the great lack in the church to disparage my brothers and sisters in the Lord? No! I do so for one reason.... to bless God's children in ways they cannot yet even imagine, but in order to do so, they must finally be brought to see that something is lacking, something is blocking their transformation. Yes, we are new creatures. Yes, we have been delivered from the power of darkness. But if these truths are not actually being manifested in our lives, something is wrong. A roadblock is preventing God from making us overcomers, but until that bothers us, and we search it out, identify it and remove it, we cannot proceed into the fullness of what God has for us. Look, His promises are meant to WORK! Until we believe that, we doom ourselves to lives lived without ever discovering the FREE INDEED Jesus has for each one of us. The fullness of grace's power is far more than we have understood. Yes, grace forgives. But grace also promises to change us and make us actual overcomers. So why, if that is the case, isn't it working? Why are we not being changed and delivered from the power of the enemy? One reason. The promises work as we believe them. Until we get sick and tired of living in defeat with closeness to Jesus only felt in rare instances, such as a great worship service, and our hearts cry out for the faith that moves His promises into action, we will remain healed only slightly. But God has assured us that He will respond when we cry out to Him with our whole hearts. You see, even this faith must come from Him. Some are ready even now to cry out to Him for such faith. Some will do so later. Some, as I said, will staunchly refuse to believe that God can and will deliver us from evil in this life, content with religious knowledge about God, rather than being possessed wholly by the Lord and seeing their lives changed in ways they simply thought impossible. I have no idea who is who. Each one of us must search our own hearts and respond accordingly. My prayer and hope is that all discover the rest that remains for the people of God. blessings, Gideon

Correct doctrine brings forth the promises of God revealed in our lives. As I have stated previously, if it is not, are we not to examine ourselves and our understanding of the truth to find out what is missing and causing us to live lives less than what Christ has promised us? If in our resisting temptation, we never see satan fleeing, when God said he would, should that not give us pause? If we lack the fruits Christ promises to abundantly grow in our lives, and we are not new converts but those who have followed the truth for years, do we just keep on as we have been, or is it time we fall on our knees and seek the face of our Master as to why we are not being sanctified wholly, body, soul and spirit? To get upset when someone brings this to our attention is not solving anything, but is simply a distraction from the enemy as to what needs to happen. God promises to deliver us and to cause us to walk as overcomers, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil. Do we want that, no matter the cost to us personally? I believe there is a small but growing group of believers tired of making excuses for their continued captivity to sin and self. They long to be holy, and are not satisfied with "positional holiness". They want the manifested character of the Son to be inprinted on their hearts, affecting how they interact with the world. I am simply one of those people. I have stated it before but it bares repeating. Some will soon awake to the how of holiness. Others will follow later. Some will never awaken to God's high calling nor experience His hand working all those things in us as the master potter. I do not know who fits in each group. I accuse no one. Therefore, I will continue to simply share what God asked me to share and let the Spirit do what the Spirit does..... set men free who are willing to lose their lives to find His in them. be blessed dear brother, Gideon

Do you believe a faith-filled Christian can end up homeless with a hungry family to feed and nothing to feed them with? blessings, Gids

Your vision is skewed, dear brother. You declare me to be trashing other brothers about not abiding in tbe vine. Is what I stated scriptural or not? Does God indeed promise that if we abide in the vine, we will not fulfill the lustsof the flesh? Yes or no? If He does, then what have I to apologize for? I want all of Christ's children to walk in the fullness of their salvation, but there are many who would rather take offense at the slightest hint of a part of God's truth not being walked in, and throw their entire attempts at discrediting me, rather than falling on their face before God, crying out as Paul did for our faithful God to deliver them from themselves and their weakness and defeat. If your goal is simply to discredit me, Save yourself the trouble, lol. I am nothing... less than nothing without walking in the new nature He abundantly supplies. Why do you rail against what I share with such vehemence? Do you not want to see your brothers and sisters walk in real victory? I do, and that is the sole purpose of my posts. The fly in the ointment for accepting what I share though, is that in order to cry out for victory, real overcoming of satan's many arrows, one must admit they need such a walk, that their current place may afford them salvation, but does not arm them enough to resist satan steadfast in the faith and send him running. Hunger for deliverance and for walking pleasing to God in true obedience is not optional. Real manifested overcoming, as well as true bearing of fruits pf the Spirit.... these are our birthrights, dear Josh, nothing less. May all who hunger and thirst for abiding in the vine where they do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh call out to Him, believing that holy walks are exactly what He longs to give us.if we will but ask. blessings to you, Gids

What correction is needed? There you go again looking for an argument. I simply refuse to join your efforts to do so. There are bigger issues at atake. Correct me if I am wrong, but love is not supposed to be easily offended, is it? You have missed the entire point of the OP, blinded to things my post is actually about. Why not center on those things? As to abiding in the vine, the evidence is not fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. I stand by my assertion. Few, very few are yetcwalking there, based upon what God says. blessings, Gids

It amazes me that you would try to make this post into an attack on those who believe one side of the debate or another. That was not the point of the post, and I can assure you that was no slight meant in my words, no matter how you seem to try to drum up getting offended from both sides of the argument. My point was that if one is abiding in the vine, which is what our God has called us to, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. That is God's promise to us. So, if one finds themselves yielding to those lusts, something is being missed. The Word tells us that if we walk correctly in Him, He will cause fruits to grow in us.... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness... etc. If we have walked with God for years, somerimes even decades, and thesecare noticeably absent, something in amiss. The test of whether or not our salvation is genuine is if we have palpable, manifested love for one another, , and are found loving God with ALL of our hearts. If these things are not seen in our lives, something is wrong. Why? His promises work. God has told us that real grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. For new converts, it is simply about forgiveness, but not so for those more seasoned saints who have walked in Him much longer. He promises to cause us.... do we read that? ...... CAUSE US.... to walk as obedient children. Obedience is demanded under the old covenant. It is promised in the new! Glory! So, dear brother, you can take offense feeling like I am somehow attacking you and all others here, trying it seems to whip up the masses, which I am not. However, the truth is, if most here are honest, these things listed above are not only uncommon in most Christians lives, they are actually looked at as impossible. Do we think a man can walk in holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our lives? Do we think it our reasonable service to walk our our time here on earth as living sacrifices? We are instructed to bring every thought into subjection to the obedience of Christ. Do we agree with Him here? You see, these promises are not in most Christian's discussions as to even being possible, let alone being assured. Yet God has indeed promised to be the potter, to cause us to will (want to) and to do (actually obey) of His good pleasure. Why will we not cry our for the faith to believe Him? What these promises assure us, dear brother, is real Christianity in its full glory. We know the God of forgiveness, but how few there are..... yet.... who know Him as the God who cleanses us of all unrighteousness? It has left us healed, but only slightly, and God's will is that He liberates us completely from the old us and the weakness and sin that comes with it. You want to engage me in a head knowledge battle. I choose not to. I am rather aiming for the hearts of readers, yours included, many of whom are tired of felling condemned even though there is no more condemnation. God tells us that we are no longer in the flesh, but in the Spirit, and owe the flesh NOTHING. That is the truth of the full extent of our salvation, but unbelief has blinded our eyes, and has done so pretty much ever since the grievous wolves entered the flock after the death of Paul. Praise God, that time is coming to a close and in a hurry. Here is what He is even now opening our eyes to. He tells us if we resist the enemy with our shield of faith held high, satan WILL flee from us. He promises never to allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist it, He tells us we have not only been forgiven, but delivered from the very power of darkness. This is a time when our hearts must outshout our heads. Do we want to truly walk in the glorious liberty of the children of God, or are we content to to walk in the status quo we have all grown up in? Will we remain content with simply being forgiven, or do we long for a walk where we truly please Him with our obedience.... obedience He promises to bring about in our lives? Darkness is coming. Head knowledge will wilt in the heat of this coming battle. The power to overcome what satan will throw at us must emanate from Christ abiding in our hearts, hearts that are found crying out to God to do what He promises clearly to do for us.... set us free indeed. I am sorry if you feel like I am dodging your many challenges to debate. The truth however, is that it is you who are dodging the real point of my posts. I pray you see that. blessings, Gideon

I do not understand your issue. Of course they are written to believers. Before we go wandering off on a tangent of your particualr choosing, can you tell me if you agree or disagree as to the premise of my OP? That is what I would like to discuss. blessings, Gids

Thanks for your graciousness. Many get caught up in the free will vs. predestination debate. My personal feeling is if we put all that effort into seeking how to walk holy before the Lord instead, the argument would not seem so critically important to us, and our peace far greater. Many more are drawn to the Lord by our abiding in the vine, bearing fruits that He brings forth, than by our explaining to them doctrines that may tantalize our minds but do nothing for our hearts. blessings to you, Episcopus Gids

I would love to say my darned spell check failed me, but the truth is I just learned something. Thank you. ? blessings, Gids

That last statement is, as far as I am aware, not true. They mutate constantly, naturally. They do not do so in response to our getting vaccinated. They do not think. blessings, Gids

This week-end, my wife and I loaded up the boys for a rare trip out to Costco. We were driving, listening to Kare Jobe singing. It was hot and very humid, but inside our little air conditioned "bubble", we were happy to get out as a family for a bit after being home bound for so long. All of a sudden, something caught my eye along the side of the road. A family.... a man, his wife, their toddler, their dog and some heavy looking bags and back packs caught my eye. The woman was struggling, trying to comfort her crying toddler. The man too was struggling, carrying their belongings while holding the leash to their young dog. I immediately began to cry. so did my wife. Neither one of us could drive by and both of us knew we had to stop, but we were on a road where we could not turn around for several miles. We drove further, to a branch of our bank and got some cash. We turned around, and found them under a shade tree a few feet from the major road, crying in despair. Long story short, we helped them as the Lord had led. This post is not about them, nor about the level of our response, and I so wish I could have done more. These were not drug addicts, nor alcoholics. They were not users of people. They had simply fallen through the cracks of our ever-weakening economy. They had had jobs but lost them , lost their rented home. had their car break down and were falling...... into hopelessness. Guys, more will follow. Many more. Before this is over, homelessness will not simply be the "fringe-dwellers of society. They will include entire normal families... kids with moms and dads who had always worked, paid their bills, just like you and me. Some will be in your church. A food bank is wonderful but will not be enough. Missions are wonderful, but they will simply quickly get to overflowing. The question is...... the one we need to answer in our hearts, is What will we do? How uncomfortable will we make our own little "safety bubble" we have worked so hard to establish in order to alleviate the desperate conditions we will see others find themselves in? Will we try to save our life.... or lose it to help others? What does God think on matters such as this? “Is not this the fast that I have chosen: to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house?—when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him, and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily; and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy rearward. Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and He shall say, ‘Here I am.’ " Isaiah 58:6-9 We are entering into a time none of us have ever experienced. It is easy to worship God when our rent is paid, when there is plenty of food on our tables, and yes, when our cable bill is paid up, lol. But a test is coming that will reveal how deeply our walk with God actually goes. Think for a minute. In your fellowship, what if half of the people you worship with ended up unemployed and with many of them homeless? How would your church handle such a predicament? How would you? Again, let us hear what God has told us... "Hereby we perceive the love of God: because He laid down His life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world’s goods and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up the compassion of his heart from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth." 1 John 3:16-18 We can hide our heads from believing such a time is on our horizon. Suppose for a minute it is not.Suppose wexsomehow dodge such a terrible situation. It changes nothing. What matters is the depth of our Lord dwelling in our hearts. If we are not at the place where we could share our food, or bring another family into our home, disrupting our attempts to live 'normal' lives, we, myself included,, need to seek God for His heart so that we can do so, and do so with joy, not begrudgingly. This is truly a scary thing to contemplate, but the fact that it is so scary reveals that our hearts need searching.... and filling. These coming days are going to be the time when the genuineness of our Christianity will be tested. It is called the valley of decision. God IS able to change us to the point where we can smile as we welcome others into our homes... and mean it. . It will not be easy getting to the point where we can share what we have. God must work it into our hearts. But our job is to humbly admit we need Him to bring us to the point we are willing to be changed, because even though He wants to rule over us, He will not "over-rule" us. blessings to all, Gideon

Scientists: 'Exactly zero' evidence COVID-19 came from a lab Filed Under: COVID-19 Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News | May 12, 2020 Share Tweet LinkedIn Email Print & PDF sars-cov-2-micrograph-niaid.jpg NIAID Since the COVID-19 pandemic began, the Internet has been teeming with provocative conspiracy theories that the novel coronavirus was (1) created in a Wuhan, China, lab and deployed as a bioweapon or (2) derived from bats, grown on tissue culture, intentionally or accidentally transmitted to a researcher, and released into the community. Politicians have touted these theories in an attempt to blame China for the pandemic, and a discredited US scientist recently released a book and now-banned video claiming that wealthy people deliberately spread COVID-19 to boost vaccination rates. And late last week, an unsubstantiated NBC News report on cell phone location data suggested that the Wuhan lab temporarily shut down after a "hazardous event" in October. Even Kristian Andersen, PhD, a professor in the Department of Immunology and Microbiology at Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, and lead author of a research letter published Mar 17 in Nature Medicine on the origins of the virus, first thought that COVID-19 was just as likely to have been accidentally released from a lab as it was to have come from nature. But that was before he learned more about COVID-19 and related coronaviruses, which have features already seen in nature. "There are lots of data and lots of evidence, as well as previous examples of this coming from nature," he said. "We have exactly zero evidence or data of this having any connection to a lab." He says the new coronavirus clearly originated in nature, "no question about it by now."

Can you show the evidence supporting this? From all I have read from the medical professionals, with no bone to pick in the political process, they feel certain that it was not bioengineered. To make a statement as if it is a fact sounds more like an assumption, not a fact. blessings, Gids