jerryR34

thanks - I guess I have a problem with the ceremonial aspects of what I posted. Is God supposed to be happy that we killed a bird under water or sprinkled water a specific number of times. If you look at medicine throughout history, you can see where the bible led people astray and actually made medcine worse (look at bleeding for instance). Do you really think that what is practiced in the chapters and verses above actually helped anyone...or actually appeased God or should appease God?

Someone cured of leprosy or some other skin disease in the OT has to go through this...How can we look at non-believers with a straight face and debate science considering this woo? Help me make sense of this. I've read the bible multiple times, and stuff like this really trips me up. Was God made in our image? Leviticus 14 New International Version (NIV) Cleansing From Defiling Skin Diseases 14 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “These are the regulations for any diseased person at the time of their ceremonial cleansing, when they are brought to the priest: 3 The priest is to go outside the camp and examine them. If they have been healed of their defiling skin disease,[a] 4 the priest shall order that two live clean birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop be brought for the person to be cleansed. 5 Then the priest shall order that one of the birds be killed over fresh water in a clay pot. 6 He is then to take the live bird and dip it, together with the cedar wood, the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, into the blood of the bird that was killed over the fresh water. 7 Seven times he shall sprinkle the one to be cleansed of the defiling disease, and then pronounce them clean. After that, he is to release the live bird in the open fields. 8 “The person to be cleansed must wash their clothes, shave off all their hair and bathe with water; then they will be ceremonially clean. After this they may come into the camp, but they must stay outside their tent for seven days. 9 On the seventh day they must shave off all their hair; they must shave their head, their beard, their eyebrows and the rest of their hair. They must wash their clothes and bathe themselves with water, and they will be clean. 10 “On the eighth day they must bring two male lambs and one ewe lamb a year old, each without defect, along with three-tenths of an ephah[b] of the finest flour mixed with olive oil for a grain offering, and one log[c] of oil. 11 The priest who pronounces them clean shall present both the one to be cleansed and their offerings before the Lord at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 12 “Then the priest is to take one of the male lambs and offer it as a guilt offering, along with the log of oil; he shall wave them before the Lord as a wave offering. 13 He is to slaughter the lamb in the sanctuary area where the sin offering[d] and the burnt offering are slaughtered. Like the sin offering, the guilt offering belongs to the priest; it is most holy. 14 The priest is to take some of the blood of the guilt offering and put it on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of their right hand and on the big toe of their right foot. 15 The priest shall then take some of the log of oil, pour it in the palm of his own left hand, 16 dip his right forefinger into the oil in his palm, and with his finger sprinkle some of it before the Lord seven times. 17 The priest is to put some of the oil remaining in his palm on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of their right hand and on the big toe of their right foot, on top of the blood of the guilt offering. 18 The rest of the oil in his palm the priest shall put on the head of the one to be cleansed and make atonement for them before the Lord. 19 “Then the priest is to sacrifice the sin offering and make atonement for the one to be cleansed from their uncleanness. After that, the priest shall slaughter the burnt offering 20 and offer it on the altar, together with the grain offering, and make atonement for them, and they will be clean. 21 “If, however, they are poor and cannot afford these, they must take one male lamb as a guilt offering to be waved to make atonement for them, together with a tenth of an ephah[e] of the finest flour mixed with olive oil for a grain offering, a log of oil, 22 and two doves or two young pigeons, such as they can afford, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. 23 “On the eighth day they must bring them for their cleansing to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting, before the Lord. 24 The priest is to take the lamb for the guilt offering, together with the log of oil, and wave them before the Lord as a wave offering. 25 He shall slaughter the lamb for the guilt offering and take some of its blood and put it on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of their right hand and on the big toe of their right foot. 26 The priest is to pour some of the oil into the palm of his own left hand, 27 and with his right forefinger sprinkle some of the oil from his palm seven times before the Lord. 28 Some of the oil in his palm he is to put on the same places he put the blood of the guilt offering—on the lobe of the right ear of the one to be cleansed, on the thumb of their right hand and on the big toe of their right foot. 29 The rest of the oil in his palm the priest shall put on the head of the one to be cleansed, to make atonement for them before the Lord. 30 Then he shall sacrifice the doves or the young pigeons, such as the person can afford, 31 one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering, together with the grain offering. In this way the priest will make atonement before the Lord on behalf of the one to be cleansed.” 32 These are the regulations for anyone who has a defiling skin disease and who cannot afford the regular offerings for their cleansing.

I'm afraid you are completely wrong about archaeological evidence supporting a global flood as reported in the bible - but you are welcome to substantiate this claim. Many cultures have stories about floods, consequently floods happen a lot. This isn't evidence of anything other than that rivers sometimes flood. . .which isn't exactly news. We find marine layers of strata in mountains because those mountains were once part of an ancient ocean - that's why there's a fossilized layer showing everything you'd expect to see from a calm ocean floor existing for eons rather than a jumble of sediment that you'd expect to see from a big flood. That's just basic geology. The fact of the matter is that archaeologists haven't found any compelling evidence that the Israelites were ever in Egypt, or that they wandered around Sinai - even those archaeologists from Israel who have every conceivable political and religious motivation to do so. Also, I'm afraid that the claim about chariot wheels being found in the Red Sea is a very old hoax. Why do different cultures have stories passed down about a surviving family/people of the flood? Because almost all cultures have experienced extensive floods, and there were survivors to pass along the story, and the story, no doubt, grew through subsequent generations.

Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations. Evolutionary processes give rise to diversity at every level of biological organisation, including species, individual organisms and molecules such as DNA and proteins.[1]All life on Earth is descended from a last universal ancestor that lived approximately 3.8 billion years ago. Repeated speciation and the divergence of life can be inferred from shared sets of biochemical and morphological traits, or by shared DNA sequences.[2] These homologous traits and sequences are more similar among species that share a more recent common ancestor, and can be used to reconstruct evolutionary histories, using both existing species and the fossil record. Existing patterns of biodiversity have been shaped both by speciation and by extinction.[3] evolution Wikipedia

Did God remove free-will by reavealing miracles? If not, why does He not do them know when we could document them. The cliche one is to restore an amputated limb.

That has an air of not making waves...

I think God is good because God always does good things. God doing good things perfectly, and knowing them perfectly, tells us what we need to do to be good. What I just stated is my opinion and is actually fairly controversial lol, but it still strikes me as a decent way to approach these sorts of questions. For what it is worth, considering what I've read from you in posts related to science, I regard you opinion highly. I guess I'm guilty of a plea to authority

Well, frankly, yes. Cutting open wombs and bashing babies' heads against rocks are atrocities. I'm struggling with some stuff in the Old Testament. How can we have absolute morality when some of the things the absolute authority on morality does would not be considered moral?

God does not think of us being trash. We are his children. Easy to say, but what would you say about all the people washed away in the flood? Did the babies, todlers, children have a say?

I guess I would ask what the point of your question is? Jesus' name was most likely Jeshua, and in Spanish, the phonetic is Hey-Soos. When you pray, he knows who you are talking to regardless of how you address him.

Well, He killed everyone and everything save what made it on the Ark. If a human did that it would not be moral. There are several other atrocities in the bible that do not give us a very good moral compass. If anything God does is moral, how can we get moral direction?

Sometimes, I believe God thinks we are trash. He can dispose of us whenever he feels necessary (Noah's flood, multiple genocides of Israeli enemies, Revelation, Hell). Our only value is in how much we can glorify Him. We are disposable if we don't give him praise and worship.

How can God dictate morals when anything He does is, by definition, moral?

Depends on the circumstance. Would you rather the manufacturer of your car has faith in the materials they used for the brakes on your car, or would you rather they use science to determine the materials were adequate? As to the OP...would you discount any of the people you cited if they said something opposing your beliefs. Pleas to authority mean nothing unless the person is an authority on the subject on which he or she comments.

The butterfly's transformation is no more amazing than that of our own from fertilization to adulthood. We start out as an embryo that is remarkably similar to that of a fish. Be careful not to mix evolution with embryology in your zeal to make a point.

As i understand it, even the plants did not have thorns until the fall, so, no pun intended, all hell broke loose after origianal sin.

The entire theory of Evolution is at odds with God's omniscience. It problematic because it assumes an imperfect creation, but God is incapable of creating imperfection, as there is no imperfection in Him. Current imperfections are the result of sin. In addition, the creation account is supernatural whereas "natural" selection is predicated not only on there being no supernatural causality, but also no supernatural guidance. The Bible teaches that God guides and sustains creation. Naturalism precludes super-naturalism. The Creation was perfect, man introduced imprefection by his actions....

I hear you...fear of life is very challenging...