Marilyn C

Hi Dennis, I too have wondered where our brother Ad Hoc is. On Holidays? Not well? Now interesting thoughts there Dennis. Let`s look at the picture of Lazarus and the rich man. Notice that the rich man `lifted up his eyes.` (Luke 16: 23) Straight away we realize that this is just a picture to help us understand the difference between the two places - Hades and Abraham`s bosom. You see when they died their bodies were in the grave rotting. Thus, no eyes, no mouth to talk etc. Jesus was just giving the picture of the different places when they died. The soul of the rich man was troubled while Lazarus rested because he had faith in God, (Abraham`s bosom). As to God being everywhere even in the Lake of Fire, means that it is in the `consuming fire` (Heb. 12: 29) of God. Hope all that helps.

All good relating to the Body of Christ. However, God made the nations and Israel and will fulfill His purpose for them. They are not cast aside, but a part of God`s great kingdom under the sovereign rule of the Lord Jesus Christ in the third heaven.

That`s all good. May the Lord reveal more of His truth to you (and all of us). Anything you find of interest, please let us know.

Hi biblelesson, Thank you for your good reply. I agree with some of what you write, however there are a few points to discuss. Nations. We need to remember that there were four centuries of people before the Body of Christ started. Think of Seth. He was the third son of Adam and Eve. And from then on, many people turned to God. `And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth. “For God has appointed another seed for me instead of Abel, whom Cain killed.” And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. Then men began to call on the name of the LORD.` (Gen. 4: 25 & 26) So way back in the very early days people turned to God. They didn`t know all about Jesus however it is because of Jesus` sacrifice that they will be saved. They are not `set` in the Body of Christ as we are, (1 Cor. 12: 18) but they will populate the new earth. This was God`s purpose for man, (Gen. 1: 28) and God will yet fulfill that. (Rev. 21: 24) Israel. Glad you see that God hasn`t cast away the nation of Israel. However, they are not in the Body of Christ. Yes, individual Jews who turn to God in the time of the Body of Christ will be in in that purpose, however, the nation of Israel will yet turn to God by His Holy Spirit and rule the nations as purposed. (Zech. 12: 10. 1 Kings 2: 45) I see that you noted that will be in the millennium. Good, I agree. Yes, Israel is grafted back into the Lord but not into the Body of Christ. It is from Him that the purposes will be individually fulfilled. Body of Christ. We will not be in the New Jerusalem for that was promised to the Old Testament saints. (Heb. 11: 16) And the New Jerusalem comes down out of the third heaven from God. (Rev. 21: 2) The Body of Christ, however, is seated with Christ on His own throne in the third heaven, on Mount Zion. (Ps. 2: 6 Rev. 3: 21) God the Father and Jesus are in each realm by their Holy Spirit however, their seat of power and authority is in the third heavens. It is from there that they rule over all of God`s great kingdom. (Rev. 4:1- 4 1 Cor. 15: 24 Ps. 68: 33 Isa. 66: 1)

Hi Dennis, Great to have a discussion on one point. Now what those esteemed men have said is good however one point doesn`t match up with scripture. You see God is everywhere by His Holy Spirit and as King David said if he went to hell God would be there. (Ps. 139: 8) That then would be ridiculous saying that hell is heaven. So, saying wherever God is, is heaven is not correct. Heaven is a place and a word used for the three areas - 1. Atmospheric heavens where the birds fly, rain etc. (James 5: 17) 2. The Universal heavens - the sun, moon and planets etc. (Gen. 1: 14) 3. The third heaven - the invisible realm where God`s throne is. (Isa. 66: 1 Col. 1: 16) God`s word tells us some things about heaven - the invisible third heaven. `...you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24) So we have in the third heaven - God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Innumerable company of angels - who minister to believers. (Heb. 1: 14) Mount Zion - the ruling area of God`s throne and Jesus will have His own throne (authority) there too. (Ps. 2: 6) General Assembly - the church - the believers in the Body of Christ who are asleep in Christ. When the whole Body is gathered together they will go to the Lord`s own throne on Mount Zion. (Ps. 2: 6 Rev. 3: 21) The New Jerusalem city - this symbolically has streets of gold, meaning those who by faith looked for this city as God promised them. (Heb. 11: 16) Faith being more precious than gold. (1 Peter 1: 7) This city will come down out of the third heaven and reside in the Universal area. There it will be the administrative center for God`s rulership through Israel over the earth. It is also the means whereby God connects and interlocks the spiritual and physical realms. The symbol of this is the `Bride,` representing this connecting and interlocking. (Rev. 21: 2 & 9 - 11) The spirits of just men (& women) -these are the Old Testament saints who have been promised a city in the heavens. (Heb. 11: 16) In the new heavens and earth they will come down out of heaven with the city ruling over the earth. The Blood - eternal redemption. (Heb. 9: 12)

Thank you for reading my work, it makes it easier to discuss with someone knowing their eschatological world view. You have lots of good points there, well presented and a good read. Now one point I would like you to enlarge on please - The other...is temporal and physical...that which is created...has a beginning and has an ending just as everything that God created...will cease to exist when they have fulfilled God’s divine purposes. This includes all nations and peoples.... It seems to me you are saying that God`s purpose for them is just in time and not eternity. Is that so? I believe that God will make a New Heavens and New earth, and that the nations (of those saved) Israel, (who turned to God) and the Body of Christ will have their God given purpose then. Then you made a statement that I conflate (combine) the eternal and the temporally created realms. Had to think on that. I don`t think I do, but if you can give an example that would help.

Hi Tatwo, A good read there. I was pleased to see that you wrote about the Body of Christ being prepared to rule in the age(s) to come. Great.

Hi biblelesson, Glad you enjoyed the question. You certainly put a lot of thought into your answers. Now generally I agree with just some details to discuss. 1. Nations. Yes, man became corrupted. However, many of the nations turned to God over the centuries and God will fulfill His purpose for them. Do you know what that is? 2.Israel. Yes you say that God choosing Israel is based on His salvation plan to redeem man. I agree that God made Israel to be part of His salvation plan. However, God still has an ultimate purpose for Israel. Do you know what that is? 3. The Body of Christ. I agree we are joined to Christ by His Holy Spirit. Now no other group has had the Holy Spirit sent to them to set them in Christ`s body as we do have. God has a special purpose for us. Do you know what that is? Thank you for joining in this discussion.

Yes, while they are .........................?

Hi Dennis, Yes from `up above,` in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Thank you for asking about why I believe we, the Body of Christ`s eternal destination is in heaven and not on the earth. Now you said - `...heaven is coming to earth.` The mind boggles at that one. Have you ever seen how small our earth is in relation to the universal heavens let alone the third heaven. Remember God`s word tells us that the New Jerusalem comes OUT of heaven from God. No, dear bro, heaven does not come to earth. (Rev. 21: 2) You wrote some good thoughts about man and the garden. As to `angel`s food,` I think that just refers to food that God rained down from the atmospheric heavens. It was like coriander seed and when ground, beaten and cooked tasted like pastry with oil. (Num. 11: 7 & 8) But no, I don`t think angel`s eat our sort of food. They don`t work for food but are `ministering spirits sent forth to minster to those who will inherit salvation.` (Heb. 1: 14) Now there are no scriptures that say the Body of Christ will be on the earth as their eternal inheritance. Rather - Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN. `...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 ) ` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5) ` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6) ` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20) (New King James) As to the `wife, the bride,` that is God`s relationship with Israel. God is their husband, meaning master. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6 Hos. 3: 19 & 20)

Hi Tatwo, You also have thought quite a lot. I agree we, the believer in the Body of Christ are the New Man, a spirit man. We will not be on the New Earth but in glory with the Lord. (Rev. 3: 21) As to the nations and Israel God made them for a purpose and He will yet fulfill that. Adam before the fall was told to multiply and fill the earth. (Gen. 1: 28) Those of the nations who turn to God will have God`s Spirit in them and populate the New earth. (Rev. 21: 24) While Israel, called out from the nations, will be the ruler over the nations. (1 Kings 2: 45) God will put His Spirit within them also. (Ez. 36: 26 & 27)

Hi Dennis, You have studied a lot. Very interesting there bro.

Hi Irs, Yes, I agree that the nations were established after Noah, and from Adam and Eve`s genetics. (Gen. 10: 32) And many of those in the nations will turn to God and be those of the nations who are saved on the New earth. (Rev. 21: 24) And yes, Israel is God`s nation called out of the other nations. God will still fulfill His purpose for them as rulers over the nations. (1 Kings 2: 45) Finally, as you said the Body of Christ is separated from the rest of humanity, called out of the nations and Israel. Our special purpose will be fulfilled when we are caught up to the Lord and taken to His very own throne in glory. (Rev. 3: 21) Glad you also know that this planet is not your home. I believe that too.

HI Marathoner, However, wicked of the nations are not going to stop God fulfilling His purpose for the nations. There are some who turned to God and will be `those of the nations who are saved,` on the New earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

Yes, there is only one Vine, however from Him all purposes flow. Did God make Israel and will not fulfill His purpose for them? Also, can certain deceived men stop God`s purposes for the nations? What about the nations on the new earth? (Rev. 21: 24) Some things to think about. Thanks.

Hi Marathoner, I agree with much of what your say. However, it seems that you don`t think God made the nations or Israel for any special purpose. So, why did God make them in the first place?

Hi Tatwo, So glad to see you say that many sons are taken into eternity to rule and reign with Christ. I agree. Now, where has each group been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity?

A few people have mentioned the `Nephilim. ` I just want to say here (and not get into a big discussion) that a `Son of God,` is holy and pure. Fallen angels are certainly not like that. They are `sons` of the devil. If people want to discuss that topic then please start another thread.

And a big thank you to those who have answered already. Good for us to think on these deeper questions.

Morning Dennis, Interesting thoughts there. You did have a run. As to `make a name,` I would say that means `renown.` Dubai is renown for having the tallest building in the world. Your question, `What if Israel had accepted Jesus as their Messiah? Well, we would be under Jewish rule now. Just as well God is omniscient and knows all things so His plans work according to His appointed times. God knew Israel would reject Him but still He offered Himself to them. And even throughout the time of `Acts` Israel could have turned to the Lord Jesus, but we see at the end of Acts many of the rulers in Israel even rejected the Holy Spirit. Thus, the nation sealed their time for nearly 2,000 years of dispersion. The Nations - you say God created them at the tower of Babel. Actually, God just dispersed them.(Gen. 11: 7 - 9) In Adam & Eve were all the genetics of variation we have today. God is a God of variations. You said `God disinherited the nations.` (Deut. 32) Remember that God is omniscient, (all knowing) and man`s disobedience isn`t going to stop God`s purpose for the Nations being fulfilled. God says - `Rejoice O Gentiles, with His people.....` (Deut. 32: 41) God`s purpose for mankind in the nations - `Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth...` (Gen. 1: 28) And we see those nations of the saved on the new earth. (Rev. 21: 24) (Note: these are not the Body of Christ who are called out of the nations.) Interesting question to you Dennis. What will God do when man `fills the earth?

So, what do you think (from God`s word if you can) was God`s Purpose in making - 1. The Nations. 2. Israel. 3. The Body of Christ. If you can only comment on one group, that is fine.

Hi Adrian, That is a good point. Now I believe God`s first Appointed time is the maturity of the Body of Christ. `...till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect (mature) man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..` (Eph. 4: 13) And that maturity means that together over all the centuries we have believed (some or all) of the following - Salvation, Baptism, indwelling, gifts, ministries and eternal purposes. The timing of that will be just before we see the great northern army coming over Israel`s mountains. (Joel 1 & 2) That is the Day of the LORD God Almighty in judgment (beginning period of time not the specific Day of the Lord. Gk. has both meanings) The Body of Christ is not in that time. (1 Thess.5: 2 - 5) And in Hebrews (10: 25) we note that we will SEE the Day approaching.

Hi Dennis, I loved the personal stories of your life. We are similar, out in the country with 4 water tanks, and a generator that is well used. We stock up lots of basics and food, so, those who come behind can use them. all the best, Marilyn.

And the struggles like the chick struggling to get out of the egg, is very necessary for it (if we respond) brings us closer to rely on the Lord. In the struggle we get stronger in our trust in the Lord.

Hi Dennis, So kind of you. Now dear bro, when have you sacrificed a lamb and celebrated Passover? Was that Feast given to us or Israel? And where does God`s word say we are grafted into the first 5 feasts? Just some questions to make us think.