Marilyn C

Overcoming Desire for Self-Preservation. Again, Satan tempted Jesus to show that He is the Son of God by being protected from harm and thus death by throwing Himself off the Temple. `Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written: `He shall give His angels charge over you,` and, `In their hands they shall bear you up, lest you dash your foot against a stone.`” Jesus said to him, “It is written again, `You shall not tempt the Lord your God.`” Then when Jesus was betrayed in the garden one of His disciples used a sword to protect Him. Jesus revealed that He could ask the Father for protection against death by sending twelve legions of angels but that way wouldn`t fulfill the Father`s plans. Jesus said – “ Put up your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How could the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?”(Matt. 26: 53) Being protected from death was not helping mankind. Jesus knew that it was only by going to the cross and taking on Himself the sins of the world, that He would overcome the devil and his power over death. It was not through self-preservation. `Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.` (Heb. 2: 14 & 15) Jesus did not seek self-interest for protection but looked to the Father as He obeyed. `Who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.` (Heb. 5: 7 & 8)

Hi Ad Hoc, You have misunderstood my intents there bro. I was not about deceiving but explaining. We know Abraham`s seed is Christ not that we are physically from Abraham. Some people may think that so I wrote `OF` as an explanation NOT to deceive. The point I was making as to Eph. 1: 21 is that NO MATTER WHERE the Lord`s own throne is He is still and will be `far above all....in this age and also in that which is to come.` The Lord`s own throne we know from Rev. 4: 2 is in the third heaven, the angelic realm. There with His Body we will be ruling and reigning for ever. Now you well know that when the Lord comes to earth with His angelic army that He sits on the throne of His glory, which is His authority given of the Father, and its seat of power and authority is in the third heaven. (Rev. 4: 2) You misinterpret what I say. Wouldn`t it be better to say `did you mean such and such? ` instead of accusing. For we know who is the author of accusing.

Hi Ad Hoc, I read a lot of your own thoughts there but not really backed by scripture. So let`s have a deeper look at this `city` and where it will be. We can start where I last posted - `By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. ....And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 9 & 10, 15 & 16) And this is the point of difference - you say earth and I say the Universe. The Rulership position of principalities and Powers. Now we know that God made the different realms and the Universe above us is the rulership position of `Principalities and Powers.` `For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities and powers. All things were created through Him and FOR HIM.` (Col. 1: 16) Satan and his fallen angels usurped that position. We know that when Lucifer and his fallen angels were cast out of the third heaven they usurped the ruling position of Principalities and Powers in the Universal realm. `For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers....` (Eph. 6: 12) Satan and his fallen angels cast out of that rulership position. Then we also know that in the tribulation they will be cast out of there to the earth. `Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath,...` (Rev. 12: 12) God sets up His rulership of principalities and powers in the Universal realm. Job said, `the heavens are not pure in His sight.` (Job 15: 15) Thus, we see that God will set up His rulership in the Universal realm of Principalities and Powers. Then in the new heavens and new earth we see the city come down out of heaven from God. It will go to the Universal realm with the ruling position of Principalities and Powers. As the earth revolves the nations will be able to walk in its light. (Rev. 21: 24) Remember the Lord said those ruling positions were FOR HIM. (Col. 1: 16) Every realm in God`s great kingdom will have rulership under the Lord.

Those rude comments were not called for Mr. M. Please keep to the discussion and not denigrate someone else.

`By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. This shows that Abraham did indeed dwell in the land of promise, but it was NOT his final home which will be the city which God built.

`And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)

The Church is OF the seed of Abraham which is CHRIST. Yes, Jesus does return to the earth however, His seat of Power and authority is - `far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come.` (Eph. 1: 21) The new Jerusalem will not come to earth but be in the Universal realm, where all nations can walk in its light as the earth revolves. (Rev. 21: 24) God will be with those on the earth by His Holy Spirit. God is never visible - `Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever Amen.` (1 Tim. 1: 17) King David is certainly not a Christian. He is a righteous saint, and one who awaits his inheritance in the heavenly city. He is in the General Assembly in the third heaven at the moment till the city comes down in the new heavens and new earth. `And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets...` But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 32, 16) `To the General Assembly and the church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just (righteous) men made perfect. ` (Heb. 12: 23) Those before Christ ascended and began to build His Body are called the `just or righteous saints.` They were made perfect because of their faith in what God promised them. `These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.` (Heb. 11: 13) The parables are all addressed to the people of Israel. `Now I say that Jesus Christ became a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers. ` (Rom. 15: 8)

`By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hi Dennis, well said. I agree with most of it. Glad you also see the difference between the two. The `kingdom of heaven,` was foretold in the prophecy of Daniel. `And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed;...` (Dan. 2: 44) Jesus shortened it to `the kingdom of heaven.` Meaning that the God of heaven will set up His rulership in Israel over the nations. And we know from God`s word that is in the millennium. So the phrase `the kingdom (rule) of heaven, (God) ` is for Israel that is why it is only in the book of Matthew which concerns the Kingship of Christ. It is the rulership promise only to Israel not the Gentiles. When the other gospels speak of the kingdom of God, it is because those gospels were written with the Romans & other Gentiles in mind. The kingdom (rule) of God is His rulership over them while the kingdom (rule) of heaven, is God`s rulership through Israel as promised.

Just a point there Ad Hoc, `By faith he (Abraham) dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, ....for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. ....And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 9 & 10, 15 & 16)

Overcoming Desire for Self-Needs. When Jesus started His ministry, He was led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness. He fasted for forty days, and then Satan, the devil came to Him. He tried to tempt Jesus to use His position as the Son of God for self-interest and not according to the Father`s plan. Satan came when Jesus was most vulnerable. After fasting for forty days Jesus became very hungry. Satan came and tempted Him to turn a stone into bread. Jesus would then be using His supernatural abilities for His own self-needs. `Now when He (Jesus) had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If you are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” But He answered and said, “It is written, `Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, " `(Matt. 4: 2 – 4) Then when Jesus miraculously fed the five thousand it was for them and not for His own needs that He produced food for the hungry multitude. `Jesus took the loaves, and when he had given thanks He distributed them to the disciples, and the disciples to those sitting down; and likewise of the fish, as much as they wanted. So when they were filled He said to His disciples, “gather up the fragments that remain, so that nothing is lost. Therefore they gathered them up, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves which were left over by those who had eaten.` (John 6: 11 – 13) During His life on earth Jesus had need of shelter, food and clothing but He never used His supernatural abilities for His own self needs. `And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.` (Luke 9: 58) Jesus never used His supernatural abilities for His own needs or to give man all he needed supernaturally and make life easier. Miracles were done as the Father directed to show that Jesus had authority and power over the elements, diseases, demons etc.

Hi NConly, Interesting question. And yes, Israel is often referred to as (earthly) Zion. Micah 4: 2 `Many nations shall come and say," Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us of His ways, and we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion the law shall go forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. ` Zion is the ruling part (law) and Jerusalem (which is the city part) where people can learn the ways of the Lord. Then the phrase `daughter of Zion,` and `daughter of Jerusalem,` (Micah 4: 8) I think refers to the Jewish remnant that will be regathered.

Hi Wayne, I agree that the Lord will come back to earth, however there is no scripture that says the believers in the Body of Christ will come with Him. Christ delivers Israel and then judges the nations. He then sets up His rulership through Israel over the nations. (Micah 4: 1 - 3) Christ then returns to His seat of power and authority overall in the third heaven. (Eph. 1: 20 - 22) The Body of Christ with the Lord will be ruling from the highest in the tribulation, judging the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

Angels don`t marry. `For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels in heaven.` (Matt. 22: 30)

Very good there Starise. I enjoyed the balance between the stronger parts and softer parts. Also, good backing by yourself. Nice guitar work there too.

And how did fallen angels procreate when God did not give them the ability to do so? There was no mixing of angels and mankind. Nonsense. There were only giants, bullies.

`To him who overcome I will grant to sit with Me on My throne...` (Rev. 3: 21) We overcome by the word of God and Christ`s precious Blood. We are to overcome the false teaching of the wicked one and trickery of men - - that our inheritance is on earth whereas God`s word says heaven. - that we are to advance the kingdom of God when God`s word says we are to become like Christ and build up the Body. - that we are the bride, when God`s word says we are the New Man. - that we come back to this sinful earth when God`s word says we rule on Christ`s own throne in the third heaven. - that we are on this sinful earth in the tribulation when God`s word says we are on Christ`s own throne judging the world system and fallen angels. - that we are on this sinful earth in the millennium when God`s word says we are on Christ`s throne in the third heaven ruling over all. - that Christ`s throne, seat of power is on the earth when God`s word says He is far above all, in the third heaven.

Hi Adrian, Jesus said that to the people of Israel. In the millennium some people of Israel will rule over cities. The nations that are left after the Lord judges them will need teaching of God`s laws and ways. (Micah 4: 1 - 3)

Satan`s Schemes. When God created man, Satan was right there to interfere and try to control man. He tempted Adam and Eve to act apart from God – to be self-seeking. Once they did Satan continued to influence humanity. Over time the wickedness of man came to a head and God judged them with the flood. After the flood God told Noah that man was responsible for their deeds and if blood was shed then God would require the same from those who committed the crime. This included all lesser crimes. Man, therefore, was given responsibility to govern others. As families became tribes and then nations, we see Satan continuing to influence them. The prophet Daniel records how there were `princes` behind the major nations of the time – Persia and Greece. (Dan. 10: 20) Following them was the great Empire of Rome. It was powerful, cruel, and reaching far and wide across the known world. Into this area came Jesus to be born as a baby in Bethlehem. The angels heralded His birth and told the shepherds who were guarding their flocks, that `a Saviour who is Christ the Lord` was born in a manger. (Luke 2: 8 – 15) Later, wise men also came to see this baby. They went first to Jerusalem asking `Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?` (Matt. 2: 1 & 2) King Herod appointed by Rome was troubled and wanted to know where the young child was. The wise men were warned however and did not return to Jerusalem. Herod was then exceedingly angry and sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years and under.` (Matt. 2: 16) Now, Satan would have also seen and heard the angels and wise men. He understood that this baby was a special one who would be King of the Jews. Israel was God`s own nation who were to teach the other nations of God, but they had rebelled and thus were under Gentile rule. However, their King had come, and thus they would be able to rise as a nation under God again. Satan realised this and so began his schemes to get rid of Jesus. But an angel warned Joseph, Jesus` father to flee to Egypt and so Satan`s plan was thwarted for a time. Jesus grew up and became a man. Then, one day when John the Baptist was baptising people, Jesus came and was baptised also. When Jesus arose out of the water behold the heavens opened and a voice came from heaven, `This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.` (Matt. 3: 16 & 17) Satan then realised that this man was the very Son of God. Thus, Satan sets about to tempt Jesus when He was in the wilderness. `If you are the Son of God.` (Matt. 4:3 & 6)

Man can never change what God has made. He oversees mankind. And fallen angels were all made separately and were never given the ability to reproduce. That is a lie, (I believe) We are NOT to focus on this topic as the OP says. We need to focus more on the greater dangers associated with genetic manipulation and gain of function research. God`s Word says that we are to focus on CHRIST, His Character and His Purposes.

The CHARACTER of the World System. This World System is the sphere dominated by the prevalence of sin and is separated from God. The character of those in this World System is after Satan – proud and self-seeking. `…men….lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanders, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure…..` (2 Tim. 3: 2 – 4) This behaviour is often covered up by `civility in society,` an outward politeness but underneath is pride and self-righteousness. It is shaped by the culture of the society they live in. This includes the customs passed down, education, arts, and fashion. God`s word says that `the customs of the people are futile. (Jer. 10: 3) This is relating to making idols of gold and silver and worshipping them. Mankind has many idols that they worship, and all are futile, vain and worthless. The OFFERINGS of the World System. Authority positions and possession of land is often given to those who serve the interests of the world system. For example, in England, Kings gave castles and land to whom ever they desired for service to the Crown. They would be made `Lords` of the land. Fame and fortune also are given to those adhering to the World System`s culture, fashion, sport, art, philosophy etc. The RULERSHIP in the World System. There is always a hierarchy of authority in the World System whether it is in the Political, Economic, or Religious spheres. Power and control in through the `chain of command.` Then to keep their power these authorities decide on the laws and regulations that the people must obey. Severe consequences are for those disobeying these laws by man and Satan`s World System.

THE WORLD SYSTEM The Origin. When God created the angels He made a special angel called Lucifer. He had such beauty, splendor, with great wisdom. He was the anointed one that brought forth the praises and worship from the myriads of angels by the music that was created within him. Lucifer was actually a kingpriest. He ruled over a third of the angels and he was able to go right into God`s very presence. However, even though he was perfect in all his ways, there came a time when he rebelled in his heart. `For you have said in your heart, “I will ascend into (highest) heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars (angels) of God, I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the most High.” (Isa. 14: 13 & 14) Thus, Lucifer and a third of the angels, (who were deceived) were cast out into the universal realm. It is from there they influence mankind. Over the centuries these demonic powers worked through man to create power structures in the world. Lucifer`s name becomes Satan, (accuser) the devil, the Serpent of old and the Dragon, all describing his wicked character. `the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.` (1 John 5: 19) The world – Gk. Word `kosmos,` orderly arrangement. And this is not the world as in the earth or people but the `orderly arrangement,` of man`s system of operating, - Politically, Economically and Religiously. Every area of life is overseen by man operating under Satan`s influence. Satan and his fallen angels build power structures and ways of behaviour working in the unseen realm in a hierarchy of power. `…. principalities, …. powers, …. the rulers of the darkness of this age, … spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.` (Eph. 6: 12) Satan is the leader, the Prince of that realm. `the course of this world, (system) according to the Prince of the power of the air who now works in the sons of disobedience.` (Eph. 2: 2)

That would be lovely to hear, thank you. Who do you like singing that song?

INTRODUCTION Christ the Conqueror in Glory. In the near future, the Lord Jesus Christ will leave His Father`s throne, gather His believers together and go to His own throne in the third heaven. There, amid the acclaim of myriads of angelic host and His Body of believers, the Lord is inaugurated as the mighty conqueror. Christ the conqueror over Satan, his World System and death. We are given a fore view of this momentous celebration. `A throne set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 2 & 3) The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer - `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8) Prevail – to gain the victory, to conquer. `Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David has prevailed…` (Rev. 5: 5) Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the World System, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe. So, how did the Lord prevail and conqueror His great foe and the World System? Christ the Man on Earth. Over two thousand years ago the Lord left the heavenly realms and entered the sphere of Satanic influence on earth. His mission was to give Himself as the sacrifice for the sin of mankind. To do this Jesus had to live life as a man and not use His divine ability to overcome trials and temptations. Satan did not know of God`s plan to save mankind, however, he could see that by thwarting Jesus he could continue controlling man through his world systems. `the hidden wisdom of God ordained before the ages ….which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.` (1 Cor. 2: 7 & 8) Jesus told His disciples, “ I have overcome the World (System). ` (John 16: 33) And Jesus tells us, `To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne…` (Rev. 3: 21) What a wonderful but challenging promise. Let us now look at what Satan`s World System is like, and then how Jesus overcame his mortal enemy, the World System and death. Finally, we look at how we are enabled to overcome also.

It all depends on who you like singing. I like Aled Jones.