CurtisCWilson

There is really no "misperception" as light has come into the world, but men love darkness more than light because their works are evil. The problem is people know what is right, but they have chosen darkness over light. There is no misperception, only wrong choices on their part.

Justfaith, The Lord God already knows every single person who will accept his Son as their saviour even before he created the worlds. This was according to his "foreknowledge" and those whom he already knew he predestined to be his elec. This scripture tells us just that...... 2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, Your salvation did not happen on a certain day in history, it happened before the world began!! There is nothing you can do without the Lord knowing what it is before you do it. God's elect are those to whom he foreknew would receive Jesus as their saviour in which he predestined them to be holy and without blame before him in love.

that's ok. We're here to help..... Who is the helping here? me or you?

Nope. I gotta say Curtis. I do not see it. And I have good eyes. I come back to that puzzle...can you really bend scripture into a pretzel? No because it looses its salt and no one likes a pretzel without salt. Maybe I am not anyone...do you suppose I might be someone? Jesus said these people have eyes, but they don't see, they have ears but they do not hear!!! Matt 13:14-15 Maybe try seeing with your heart and not with the eyes of you head.

devils are not angels.... and even in casting out demons, you have to do that in the name of Jesus or they will laugh in your face. But angels are a whole different story as I have tried to tell you and show you for several days now. So, God created demons from the get go? I don't think so. God does not create sinful beings, he creates beings to be good. If demons are evil they had to be good to begin with.Is Lucifer considered evil and is he a fallen angel? Was the "serpent" Lucifer that went bad? Will these evil spirits be cast into the lake of fire? The lake of fire was made for who? Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Mat 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth. Nope, you are making the assertions, and so far you have not proved a thing through scripture, as all of us have been telling you over and over. How many times do I need repost scripture before you see it? If you dont see it by now, reposting will do no good. you are applying scripture to Adam that was only for Jesus disciples and no one else. Second Adam would not know he had power over angels unless God spoke that to him and those words are not in Genesis. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. Is there anything you can think of that God forgot to place under man? That passage in Hebrews is talking specifically about Jesus. The writer is applying this as a Messianic prophecy about Jesus and is not using this in reference to mankind. Look at the context. Read it again. it is talking about "man" and the "Son of man" both! The first Adam, and the last Adam.

Yeah, but your original argument is that mankind has authority over angels, not merely demons. You seem to be using a bait and switch argument. First of all man has no inherent authority over the angels. They are not the works of God's hands that man was given dominion over and the Bible is very clear on that Psalm 5 makes it clear that the works of God's hands over which man has dominion are all earthly beings and objects, not anything heavenly. When God gave Adam dominion in Genesis 1 it was limited to the earth and all it has in it, not angels. You are trying to prove that mankind has authority over angels in general, but you can't provide anything except conditional authority over demons and not angels as a whole. So you are unable to actually support your position with Scripture. temporal and conditional authority over demons doesn't prove that God gave mankind authority over all angelic beings. You simply cannot make your case. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. You too are trying to assume God forgot to place something under Adam's "dominion" Adam had dominion over every thing except the devil (fallen angel)l. Now that is just not good thinking and is unscriptural.

Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth. Nope, you are making the assertions, and so far you have not proved a thing through scripture, as all of us have been telling you over and over. How many times do I need repost scripture before you see it? If you dont see it by now, reposting will do no good. you are applying scripture to Adam that was only for Jesus disciples and no one else. Second Adam would not know he had power over angels unless God spoke that to him and those words are not in Genesis. Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. Did Jesus have "authority" over ALL devils, evil spirits (fallen angels)? Are you a believer? Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. Is there anything you can think of that God forgot to place under man?

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; This seems to be impossible to do unless one has "authority" to cast out devils.

Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Nowhere in the Bible did any human being other than Jesus ever exercised authority over angels. So to say that man has authority over angels is going outside of Scripture. Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. What a weak response. Jesus gave temporary authority over demons to His disciples. That does not support your actual argument that mankind has authority over the angelic realm. Sorry but you have pretty much shown that you cannot support your original argument. Man had NO authority over angels and never has. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. This was given to 72 followers of Jesus. Jesus never took back this power from them. Does Christ have "authority" over angels? If he does, then we also have the same authority because he lives in us as our new life!!!!! It is no longer "I" that liveth but Christ!!!! This is wrong for several reasons: 1. You original argument was that mankind has authority over angels, which is something the Bible never says. So you have apparently abandoned that argument since you can't prove it. 2. Lue 10:20 was a special situation and does not apply to us. It was limited and temporary authority over demons for the duration of the ministry Jesus gave to those men. it was not for all people for all time. Jesus has authority over angels but He has not transferred that authority to us. It does not follow that because Jesus lives in us that we have the same authority over demons or angels that He has. Jesus also has the authority to raise the dead and has the power to absolve sin. That authority has not been given to us. No one would dare argue that the same authority to absolve sin that Jesus has is also ours simply because Jesus lives in us. Sorry but your position isn't biblical and doesn't reflect the doctrine of the NT. I can not help you if you decide not to believe the Word of God. That is between you and God. You are the one who doesn't believe the Bible. You are twisting Scripture to say what it never intended to say. You have provided Scripture that you twist and contort to fit your unbiblical agenda. The Bible doesn't support your postion, so you mishandle Scripture and by the way, NO ONE on here believes what you say. In case you haven't noticed, no one accepts your position because your position isn't biblical We believe the Bible. We just don't believe in how you are handling the Scriptures. You have provided NO Scripture that says that mankind has authority over angels. your position isn't based on the Bible and is false doctrine. I can not make you believe the truth, that is your decision. You haven't provided any truth. You have no truth offer up to this point. We reject your false doctrine. Anyone reading this thread will see clearly that all you have done is give your opinion without bring forth scripture that disproves what scripture clearly says.

Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth. Nope, you are making the assertions, and so far you have not proved a thing through scripture, as all of us have been telling you over and over. How many times do I need repost scripture before you see it? If you dont see it by now, reposting will do no good.

Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Nowhere in the Bible did any human being other than Jesus ever exercised authority over angels. So to say that man has authority over angels is going outside of Scripture. Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. What a weak response. Jesus gave temporary authority over demons to His disciples. That does not support your actual argument that mankind has authority over the angelic realm. Sorry but you have pretty much shown that you cannot support your original argument. Man had NO authority over angels and never has. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. This was given to 72 followers of Jesus. Jesus never took back this power from them. Does Christ have "authority" over angels? If he does, then we also have the same authority because he lives in us as our new life!!!!! It is no longer "I" that liveth but Christ!!!! This is wrong for several reasons: 1. You original argument was that mankind has authority over angels, which is something the Bible never says. So you have apparently abandoned that argument since you can't prove it. 2. Lue 10:20 was a special situation and does not apply to us. It was limited and temporary authority over demons for the duration of the ministry Jesus gave to those men. it was not for all people for all time. Jesus has authority over angels but He has not transferred that authority to us. It does not follow that because Jesus lives in us that we have the same authority over demons or angels that He has. Jesus also has the authority to raise the dead and has the power to absolve sin. That authority has not been given to us. No one would dare argue that the same authority to absolve sin that Jesus has is also ours simply because Jesus lives in us. Sorry but your position isn't biblical and doesn't reflect the doctrine of the NT. I can not help you if you decide not to believe the Word of God. That is between you and God. You are the one who doesn't believe the Bible. You are twisting Scripture to say what it never intended to say. You have provided Scripture that you twist and contort to fit your unbiblical agenda. The Bible doesn't support your postion, so you mishandle Scripture and by the way, NO ONE on here believes what you say. In case you haven't noticed, no one accepts your position because your position isn't biblical We believe the Bible. We just don't believe in how you are handling the Scriptures. You have provided NO Scripture that says that mankind has authority over angels. your position isn't based on the Bible and is false doctrine. I can not make you believe the truth, that is your decision.

Where does it say that in the bible? Not is the scripture you quoted, so where please? Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Is there anything else you want?

Im well aware that angels are created. My question was in what way do creatures of heaven fall under dominion over the earthly creatures mentioned in the bible verses I posted. Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Did not Jesus give to us "authority" over ALL the power of the enemy? Or was he mistaken, that there is no authority that he could give us? If the Church today does not have this authority, then we are at the mercy of the devil and all evil spirits.(fallen angels) This scripture in no way says we have authority over angels, fallen or not. It says we wrestle them. Like we wrestle with sin, or pride, etc. And if you have the "authority" over angels, pray tell what you are doing to direct them right now? I am guessing you do not know the difference between fallen angels and evil spirits, or even Lucifer as the devil, or the serpent who is a fallen angel, who is our enemy. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Do you even believe this? Curtis, you seem confused, and as Shiloh has already pointed out, you a vacillating between scriptures to try and justify an answer. No sweat, some threads just go this way.. I hate to tell you the Word of God is eternal. It never goes away!

Im well aware that angels are created. My question was in what way do creatures of heaven fall under dominion over the earthly creatures mentioned in the bible verses I posted. Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Did not Jesus give to us "authority" over ALL the power of the enemy? Or was he mistaken, that there is no authority that he could give us? If the Church today does not have this authority, then we are at the mercy of the devil and all evil spirits.(fallen angels) This scripture in no way says we have authority over angels, fallen or not. It says we wrestle them. Like we wrestle with sin, or pride, etc. And if you have the "authority" over angels, pray tell what you are doing to direct them right now? I am guessing you do not know the difference between fallen angels and evil spirits, or even Lucifer as the devil, or the serpent who is a fallen angel, who is our enemy. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Do you even believe this?

Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth. Nope, you are making the assertions, and so far you have not proved a thing through scripture, as all of us have been telling you over and over. This being a Christian forum, is not the Word of God the bases for what we claim? Give me scriptures that proof I am wrong. So far you have not given any.

Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Nowhere in the Bible did any human being other than Jesus ever exercised authority over angels. So to say that man has authority over angels is going outside of Scripture. Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. What a weak response. Jesus gave temporary authority over demons to His disciples. That does not support your actual argument that mankind has authority over the angelic realm. Sorry but you have pretty much shown that you cannot support your original argument. Man had NO authority over angels and never has. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. This was given to 72 followers of Jesus. Jesus never took back this power from them. Does Christ have "authority" over angels? If he does, then we also have the same authority because he lives in us as our new life!!!!! It is no longer "I" that liveth but Christ!!!! This is wrong for several reasons: 1. You original argument was that mankind has authority over angels, which is something the Bible never says. So you have apparently abandoned that argument since you can't prove it. 2. Lue 10:20 was a special situation and does not apply to us. It was limited and temporary authority over demons for the duration of the ministry Jesus gave to those men. it was not for all people for all time. Jesus has authority over angels but He has not transferred that authority to us. It does not follow that because Jesus lives in us that we have the same authority over demons or angels that He has. Jesus also has the authority to raise the dead and has the power to absolve sin. That authority has not been given to us. No one would dare argue that the same authority to absolve sin that Jesus has is also ours simply because Jesus lives in us. Sorry but your position isn't biblical and doesn't reflect the doctrine of the NT. I can not help you if you decide not to believe the Word of God. That is between you and God. I given scripture for every thing I have said and you have not been able to provide any to make your claims. Who do suppose we are to believe you or the Word of God? Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

yes I have directed demons around and ran them out of my house...... rather I should sat that the Holy Spirit ran them out of my house at my bequest..... But when you talk about Satan it's a different story, I can't imagine why you would ever meet Satan face to face, but I would highly suggest that you just keep your mouth shut should that ever happen. It is only in the name of Jesus that we have any authority over demons, but you have no inkling of an idea of what you are talking about if speaking to/of the devil himself. Should I check and see if there is any way for you to meet him face to face.... you could tell him "Jump" and see what happens. Now you are beginning to see the truth. Demons are fallen angels!!! Commanding demons (fallen angels) in the name of Jesus Christ is that "authority" that every single believer has. What you are telling me is "if I ever meet Satan to keep my mouth shut" That is exactly what Adam did in the garden that got him into trouble. He kept his mouth shut, when he should have said something!!!!

Are "angels" created beings? Are they not a part of the works of God's hands? Did they not rebel against God and were cast down to this earth? Did not Adam have "authority" and "dominion" over all the earth, and over all the works of God's hands? Yes! Nowhere in the Bible did any human being other than Jesus ever exercised authority over angels. So to say that man has authority over angels is going outside of Scripture. Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. What a weak response. Jesus gave temporary authority over demons to His disciples. That does not support your actual argument that mankind has authority over the angelic realm. Sorry but you have pretty much shown that you cannot support your original argument. Man had NO authority over angels and never has. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. This was given to 72 followers of Jesus. Jesus never took back this power from them. Does Christ have "authority" over angels? If he does, then we also have the same authority because he lives in us as our new life!!!!! It is no longer "I" that liveth but Christ!!!! You're talking about Demons and not angels here...Demons are the disembodied spirits of the dead Nephilim and would be part of the earth stuff....... but still some of them take fasting and prayer to have control of. And those are not angels. So God created demons? You have got to be kidding! Any person who studies scripture knows God does not create anything sinful. He creates all things to be good. What happen to the "Nephilim"? They were destroyed by the flood, and the only living beings left were Noah and his family!

For man to have eternal life, it required an eternal sacrifice. Jesus Christ's blood that he himself brought before the Father within the veil of Heaven in which he sprinkled upon the mercy seat of God will never dry up, and it always speak better things than that of abel. This man "Jesus Christ" after he had made one sacrifice for sins FOREVER sat down on the right hand of God. (Heb 10:12) Jesus was crucified through the eternal Spirit. So, even though he was crucified once, that sacrifice is eternal. Jesus will always have the nail prints in his hands, feet, and side as a reminder of his love toward us for ever!!! Isa 49:15 "Can a woman forget her nursing child, that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you. Isa 49:16 Behold, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are continually before me.

I know this is addressed to Enoob, but this is a public forum so ... When was the last time you commanded an angel Curtis? Have you EVER done that? Cause if you haven't, why not? Man, if I thought I could command angels, I'd get right at it!!!! So...when did you last tell Micheal what to do? Huh? Is Satan an angel? Have you ever commanded the devil to leave you, or your family, or any body? How about evil spirits, ever resist them and command them in any way? If not you might want to do an indepth study on "authority" that Jesus gave unto his Church.

I know this is addressed to Enoob, but this is a public forum so ... When was the last time you commanded an angel curtis? Have you EVER done that? Cause if you haven't, why not? Man, if I thought I could command angels, I'd get right at it!!!! So...when did you last tell Micheal what to do? Huh? That, my friend, is one big huge COPOUT. LOL! Nicely diverted and quite nonsensical. wonder what happen to Adam and Eve in the garden......... Do not say that is a "cop out" Bring forth scripture to prove your point. Opinions are not truth.

Im well aware that angels are created. My question was in what way do creatures of heaven fall under dominion over the earthly creatures mentioned in the bible verses I posted. Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Did not Jesus give to us "authority" over ALL the power of the enemy? Or was he mistaken, that there is no authority that he could give us? If the Church today does not have this authority, then we are at the mercy of the devil and all evil spirits.(fallen angels)

Fez, bring scripture proof. Show me through the Word of God that Adam did not have authority over all things here on earth.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? One can not possibly judge angels unless you first have "authority" over them!!!