Jayyycuuup

How do we achieve deliverance? In the very beginnings of my walk, I was priviledged to attend a gathering of people where some had had a spiritual experience...And the ones that had not had a spiritual experience "yet"...walked only in the Hope that they would indeed one day...have a spiritual experience and be free...That Truth would make them free...They explained all the things that had happened to them...sometimes horrible things had happened to them...but then some explained how they had been set free...by having this spiritual experience...They considered themselves as all having the same dilemma and hence needing to be saved from this dilemma...sort of like "we are all in the same boat" and "the solution is the same for all of us"...I didn't want to admit in the very beginning that I needed to be free...that I needed help because I couldn't do it on my own...and was in big time denial and fear and anger about it all...that I was blind and couldn't see...For me...I had to have this born again experience...It was the Only Thing In My Mind That Could Possibly Help me...eventually I was hopeless and I had to have this experience...All I can say is: That Is The Truth: That I Had To Experience Being Born Again...Being Changed...That I indeed had come to the end of myself and that The Power of God Would Be Needed To Save me, Change me and Make me Free...We cannot do anything on our own...not even get rid of the sin that besets us...He does it...the problem is: we have to want to be free...we have to have our eyes opened so that The Truth Can Make us Free...We have to humble ourselves and ask!!! First and foremost, the way I have achieved sustained deliverance was not giving up...And Having A Powerful Spiritual Experience with God...On more than one occasion...Not giving up on The Hope that I knew others had found and that I would too, eventually...if I didn't give up (see my signature for the verses that I have literally hung onto- for dear life- at different times). Now I know that it is explained in parables Jesus taught...In the super beginning...I couldn't give up things that I was doing that was not good for my body for more than 1 day and a half...couldn't last even 2 days!!! I had not taken enough of The Word into myself when the time came to have the strength to not fall into temptation...that The Word was not being planted into fertile fallow ground...and the seed (The Word) got eaten by the birds (because the "ground" of my heart was still hardened...or the seed (The Word) blew away in the wind...that's exactly what happened to me...my heart was hard and The Word just blew away...and I would continue doing the things that weren't good for me...learning all the time that I couldn't do anything on my own without God's Help...Everything being worked together for good...(even though it didn't look like it at the time)... Amen! I agree, we need to be Saved by the Power of God. Though what you said makes me a bit sad. . . .looking for a spiritual experience as the answer- rather than relying on the word and what it tells us. Thank you for sharing!!! It never ceases to amaze me just how much we literally cling to the bible- cling to the promises He gives and the hope we find in them. He always proves Himself faithful! All I can say...The only thing coming to me right now is this: Without Depending and Trusting In God...I am trying to be my own god...and will naturally walk in sin and self...and for me...I know where that goes...death and destruction...somewhere I almost went...and don't want to ever go again...Whew...Thank You Jesus!!! For Loving, Saving, Healing, Delivering oh my...Oh Yes You Did!!! OK...Quite often I break out in a Praise Break...Wow...Hahaha...Oh God You Are So Good and Your Mercy Endures Forever!!! I agree- codependency truly is "self worship." Instead of trusting in God- you think to yourself, "I got it" when really, you don't. May have to wait on this one a very long time...I love to do detailed studies like that...and you are right...What we thought we knew...Hahaha...and then look up the real meanings...I'm amazed every time...It just takes me such a very long time because my Bible references every scripture to do with every other scripture and I always take a trip through The Bible every time...but don't forget, to me, I literally do "cast" what I can't handle onto Him, The One that can handle it...His Name is Jesus and He Is My Savior, Lord and King...Whew...Do you kinow Him? Hahaha Yes, haha. . .I am always amazed when doing a study because the first time around you think "how did I miss this?" But truly it is God who must reveal it to you- seemingly we are back to the "codependency" aspect. As for the "casting"- I say it is figurative because "worry" is not an object. . . obviously does not change the meaning but to my understanding- that is what it is. . . Psalm 55:22 22 "Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved." From what I have studied of this verse- it is very much like you say. Being dependent on God for all things- to sustain us, (guide/provide sustenance) carry us and bring us peace. Thank you for your thoughts Kathy! As for me knowing Christ- I am not sure if your kidding or not. . . but just so we are clear, i do know Him.

I believe the evil spoken of is whatever current problem we may have and the current time is sufficient to deal with it. We have no need to think our problems ( "evils" ) will continue and no need to think we will have future problems because God has our back ( so to speak ) 1Corinthians supports this. 1Co_10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. Also we can see how Jesus was disappointed when the disciples worried. Mat 8:26 KJV And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. Mat 16:8 KJV Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? Worrying excessively about anything is compared to having little faith. I didn't answer your question yet. Yes it appears we can worry excessively even for a day as you say. You don't think you answered my question yet? I think you did! lol and I must add a great answer

Thank you for engaging my mind Jacob it is encouraging for me. Mat 6:34 KJV Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Jesus suggested concentrating on the cares of the present day and I assume this means being cognizant that immediate cares are important but we should be confident our Father will surely provide for our lifetime needs. Worry becomes excessive when we have doubt God will provide imo. Ninhoa, Right. . .So can we excessively worry for just but a day? I like where your going with this and I agree fully. . . . As for the scripture in and of itself, what do you make of the last part: "sufficient for the day is the evil thereof?" What sort of "evil" is this speaking of? And, in what manner is the day sufficient? God bless you brother!

I thought it would be good to stir up some good discussion (bible discussion of course) and this is a question I have not yet seen asked! So- I believe this will be equally beneficial to understanding the God we serve (edifying) and something new! So, throughout the bible we are told of how God is a Jealous God- but what does this really mean? Why is God jealous over us? What does it even mean when we say we serve a jealous God?

To my understanding there is no scriptural support to conclude that Satan sends dreams, so I would have to say that is a no go. . .

Amen Fez! That hadn't even came to mind- but that is a perfect example! Taking something so "destructive" and countering it with a good work that pleases God! Amen!

Jacob I believe worry ( excessive ) takes our focus of Jesus and places it upon worldly matters ( excessively ). This is spiritually draining and places us in danger. Mat_13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. Mat 24:38-39 KJV For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, (39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Eph_6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. I am enjoying reading all of your subject synopses btw keep them coming. I agree Nin! Thank you for your encouragement! I do question though, (A thinking question) at what point does worrying become "excessive?"

Wow...What a great topic for me because I was nicknamed the "worrier" all my life...as a child, my daddy nicknamed me that...I remember the pure fear, worry, anxiety feeling when my daddy didn't live with us anymore...and even at 11 years old-it was my fault...and I continued to "blame" and "take the blame" for everything...worry to me is not knowing the future...and that some "need" I have will not be fulfilled or satisfied...and hopelessly helpless to do anything about it...or so it seems...Before I met The One Who Saved me... I totally agree that when my Trust Is Totally In God...I have no worries...I can trust that He is my Help In Time of Trouble...so we watch out and when finding ourselves falling into the trap of worry-or find ourselves already there...We capture that thought...as quickly as possible...sometimes I have to waller around in it longer than I would like to...I ask forgiveness when that happens... It is very hard to live double-minded (worry and faith)...I've run from a hurricane before and worried, worried, worried that my house would be gone...even though we had insurance...what's up with that? Hahaha...We are spirit in a flesh body-and have a mind that still needs constant renewal...the renewal isn't one time and done...it's constant for the rest of my life...until God takes me to that place-across the Jordan-is what I call it...He takes us from faith to faith...He can take us to new places...doing a new thing...(Even as we still live upon the earth) Whew...Oh Yes He Can...and it will be like...Wow...I don't do that anymore... Now...Just a thought on Matthew 6:34...I've had the opportunity to hear so many sermons on different topics...but of course I didn't write them all down and have them organized...wish I had of now...but one that still is in me to this day is the one where...there is no time in eternity...we are in time...God made for us the exact amount we need to sleep, work and play...or as I like to say: pray...Hahaha...anyway...we are in a constant-NOW-...that is what is so cool...in five minutes from now...It will be NOW...so in talking about tomorrow will take care of itself...I just think of it like this...When tomorrow gets here it will be NOW and every time...every single time...I don't have to worry right NOW...because nothing is going on...Hahaha...It's true...I've made myself sick physically over it all...and I'm sorry God...I'm so sorry...because I didn't have faith in You...and You are so faithful... Psalm 55:22...Cast (7993-Strong's Concordance-Hebrew) to throw out, down or away...and Strong's says that in Psalm 55:22 it is used figuratively...should look that up I guess...oh not literal...but yet to me...I have to literally-capture that thought of worry...recognize it as such, first...and get rid of it...giving it To The One Who Can Save Me From It...Jesus is His Name...He Can Handle it...I can't... Psalm 46:1...I can literally take myself into Him and hide...and after spending time with Him in Prayer...I feel refreshed, renewed and strong...This life on earth is very taxing...our nature's are very taxing...Hahaha...but I can regain strenght with a Close Personal Relationship...with My Savior, Lord and King...Jesus...Who Is Everything To me...and In Whom Everything Is... That's all I have...I don't recommend worry...at all period...It's very yukky...I agree though...God can take anything and turn it around for our good...Now we can testify and Bring Glory to Our God...My my...Love to you In Him, Kathy Amen Kathy! Psalm 46:1 “God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.” What a great testament that is- to surely live for the arms and in the arms of God! (As you mention in your post) It is interesting that you bring up being "double minded" I had not even considered that variable and it surely plays a huge role in this. Seemingly- worry has a lot of effects such as ninhoa explained- physically (stress) and spiritually (worry and in a sense distrust) We are told not to be double minded (James 1:8)- but if this is something we all struggle with day to day, how do we achieve deliverance? We know that Jesus is our provider, our deliverer etc. but how do we set out mind on things that are above instead of the material things? How do you find peace in this "battle" over your mind? (A few thinking Questions) You then explain you had self condemnation with "worry" until you were inline with Jesus. . .do you mind explaining this a bit? As others have said, worry is a widely beheld matter and I only ask of this in the hopes of giving others deliverance and hope through your testament that was made possible by the power and mercy of God. Thank you for your thoughts about Mathew, that is a great perspective! As for Psalms 55:22 I think you have the right Idea! I believe it is used figuratively because you do not literally "cast" your burdens upon the Lord. For instance ; "If someone were to "cast" doubt on something" it simply means that they find it fallible. I think the same is being applied to Psalm 55:22, to "cast" our burdens on the Lord for He is infallible and sustains us in all things. I have done a study on the other words as well (In Psalms 55:22) and would encourage you to do the same- you uncover some VERY interesting things. . .I would be interested in what you find and what your thoughts are Thank you for your response and making us think Kathy! God bless you! Love to you in HIm, Your brother, Jake

Nice thread GE! Of course this comes down to ultimate choice- choosing to be different or "follow in the footsteps of your parents," but what are your thought on this proverb verse? Proverbs 22:6 "Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it." Of course each to his own- but we also must consider the role of a parent to correct and train the child in righteousness in sight of the Lord.

I'd be interested to know what you think happens in both cases. Let's say, for example, that we're talking about cavemen in Western Europe BC and people living in the Americas before Columbus in the AD. How is someone supposed to know that *Jesus* is the way to salvation without reading the Bible? There are lots of philosophical arguments for the existence of God which might have been available to people in the absence of the Bible, but none of these arguments establish anything about Jesus - they just try to establish that some kind of God exists. But if all you need to believe is that some kind of God exists, then it looks like there *are* many ways to be saved, but I take it that that's something you want to deny. Hey Tommy- since this is pulling away from the OP I have created a new thread concerning this issue. . . see here:

So a question was brought up in another thread of what happens to those who do not hear Christ message and die versus those who died before Christ's time. . . Since it was not conclusive to the OP I decided it would be better to create a new thread concerning this discussion.

Jesus knew excessive worry serves no good purpose. Interesting Nin! What do you think worrying does spiritually? If anything?

I agree. Though I cannot comment much on this due to my inexperience in the aspect of a "job atmosphere" I do thank you for your thoughts! Here soon I will begin to understand how stressful a job is, go me. lol That does not sound strange, in fact I think it is sound advice. The book of Psalms attests to this very thing- being "quieted" by Gods power and love. I guess this all really brings us back to the factor of dependency. In your time of need where does your help come from and in what ways do you allow to be helped? (Given you are humble enough to accept the help.) I have a quote in my signature, "Anxiety does not empty tomorrow of its sorrows, but only empties today of its strength." (also in the OP) and I think it plays into this. . .What do you think? Amen. As for the fear aspect- what I am seeing is "fright"- not that it changes the root of discussion, but just a thought. . . With that. . . Psalms 23:4 "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For you are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me." . . . .I agree fully with "it is how we deal with out fear." Interesting. . . I see you did not get into details for likely a reason that will not be brought up but this is very interesting. They are? I was given the impression that they are interchangeable? Do you mind explaining how you see them as different? And Amen. . . I agree with that. We also must consider that what we are against is not something that we ourselves can do away with (Ephesians 6:12) for it is the Lord who brings joy in the morning (Psalm 30) Thank you for your thoughts and replies Fez! God bless you brother!

Thank you for sharing Fez! The "Stained glass masquerade" by Casting Crowns is a great song (IMO) and holds a lot of truth in it. We only show what we want others to see in us- but in reality this does a lot worse than good. You end up getting a bunch of people who are "stranded" and think that showing some sort of weakness is "not welcomed." One of the best examples I can think of is when you ask someone how they are and they respond "Good" but their eyes tell a different story. The advice your friend gives you is quite moving- and is so very true! It really brings us back to Mathew 6:34 (Take therefore no thought for the morrow, for the morrow shall take though for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof) So with this I have a few questions if you don't mind, 1) Worry seems almost inevitable in some aspects- but really "why do we fear?" (of course opinionated, but what is your take on the issue) 2) What advice would you/do you give to someone else who is a "worry wort?" 3) 1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has to do with punishment. He that fears is not made perfect in love." Thoughts?

So if I may Steven, To you, what does it mean to cast all your cares on the Lord? In what ways does one humble oneself? Great scriptures by the way!

As you can see I have greatly edited this thread in hopes of discussion rather than be complimentary. . so with that being said, I look forward to your responses!!!

It is not love to excuse their actions and portray them as innocents. Pray for them. Long for them to come to Christ. Do not make light of their actions. They are killers who need Jesus. Too late for the one, but the other still has a chance to get saved. If you read all my posts, you will see Im not excusing their actions. Of course, but the web link (in the OP) is.

I just want to thank each and everyone of you all for your encouragement. It means so much! Bless you all in the Lords name!

I'm curious what you believe happens to the souls of the millions of people who died without having the chance to learn about Jesus' message? Depends on what time period your looking at- Before Christ or after? (Makes a huge difference)

Of course Patriot. But what does this have to do with hiding the truth? They are malicious and did a very wicked thing- of course I myself do not hold any malice against them, but on that same not I am not going to reason out something for them to make their act less than what it is- evil. I pray the man who was turned in finds the Lord and I pity Him in the sense of what he is battling- but again, hiding the truth does nothing. Im just saying, sometimes I think the liberals, at least get part of it right-we do need to love them, and sympathise with them, and draw them to Christ. We don't need, to let them get away with it, they need to know there is no excuse for their actions-which the liberal agenda often pushes the pendulum to far in that direction-but we can learn from the sympathy part. I agree with you one hundred percent Patriot. The reasoning behind this portrayal is and can be numerous different things. I believe the approach in setting aside the demoralizing aspect and the condemnation achieved in this- was not rightly addressed in the aspect of showing both love AND complete truth. But, With that being said- instead of associating ourselves in the same degrading manner taken by many who hypothesized the outcome and those involved- we will focus on the act itself. As I believe the whole thing should have been done with in the first place. (This is concerning the side links and those in the social media who quickly made assertions of the "could be such and such") So in conclusion- the act was immoral and devastating and needs the truth to be shown- along with that of course, love.

Thank you for your encouragement Tinky- is very much appreciated. Bless you Sister.

Of course Patriot. But what does this have to do with hiding the truth? They are malicious and did a very wicked thing- of course I myself do not hold any malice against them, but on that same not I am not going to reason out something for them to make their act less than what it is- evil. I pray the man who was turned in finds the Lord and I pity Him in the sense of what he is battling- but again, hiding the truth does nothing.

Anxiety does not empty tomorrow of its sorrows, but only empties today of its strength. – C.H. Spurgeon – So what does it mean to worry and to be anxious? Why are these things so detrimental to our faith and strength? Below are just a few scriptures to begin the discussion and I would love for more to be brought in to be discussed. . But for starters, what do you think these scriptures mean and what do you get out of them? Mathew 6:34 34 "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Psalm 55:22 22 "Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved." Psalm 46:1 "God is our refuge and strength, a ever present help in trouble." Psalm 121:1-2 " I lift up my eyes to the hills, where does my help come from? My help comes from the LORD, the Maker of heaven and earth." Proverbs 12:25 " An anxious heart weighs a man down, but a kind word cheers him up." So what do you think worrying does to an individual and what do you think should be done to "stop" worrying- or can it even be done away with? God bless you and I look forward to some good discussion!

Every since I have heard of this- "showing the attackers in a sympathetic light"- I have been very confused. . . . . It is one thing to sympathize with the attackers in the sense of remorse that such a wicked thing could be done. . . and another to "dim the light." Projecting a "lesser of the evil" does not account for the numerous deaths and many injured. They say the case was quickly met with condemnation- but not once did I see the word "false."

I'm thinking that the reason he got upset was because he wasn't trying to look like a woman. Appearances can be very deceiving. I'm going to go with JTC on this one in that he was confused/twisted. I'm going to go with it because me mom gave me the simple response of "It is okay. I though he was girl too", and she had been around long enough to know when a guy is just trying to make himself look younger of whatever He had on purple eye-shadow, plum lipstick, waxed eyebrows that are penciled in. He even had liner around his lips! He had on good and smooth foundation and like I said in my previous post neither my mom nor I knew the gender until she saw his name tag. Appearances can be deceiving. I do not know what he was trying to pull but he looked like woman (the proper word now might just be drag). I am sorry to interupt your discussions here.....but reading through these people use descriptive words such as "lip balm" and "mascera" the most troubling. . . . "Foundation" so my question is what are these? ?? (Obviously make up...but purpose?) Why do even women wear makeup?