Cross Reference

Cross Reference, on 26 Jun 2014 - 10:25 AM, said: Yes, I do, don't I? Have you found any violation in my understanding the might contradict my believing I am saved by the grace of God upon placing my faith in Him?. . . That is truth and __ more that Paul speaks of as going far beyond the initial salvation of any individual, should they allow themselves come to understand it. Great is righteousness of any man. His prayers avail much when offered up to the throne of Grace! AMEN!! Absolutely!! Exactly!! Oh, but he did __ and four thousand years or until "the fullness of Time God could send His Son" to get things back on track and get everything "summed up in Him", as God purposes things to finish out. And through man was it to be so that the "whole world would be full of His Glory"__ Jesus being the first of the "Many sons brought unto glory", all one with God, who will accomplish it. Halleuyah to the King of Glory! Praise His Name forever!!!

nd might I add, there was no plan "B". Ah, Yes, No plan "B". I agree. However, can't we agree God a had a plan, ready to roll out, just in case Adam failed?

Why? God wants to known as Father because He is the Father of all born again. Jesus called Him Father. In your family, you are supposed to be as He is with regards to your children. That is elementary 101 teaching. And you have never considered anything beyond that as the reason??? Amazing!! Had they eaten, Adam and Eve would have been as God Himself living forever in sin and procreating children who could never be redeemed. In short the universe would have "exploded". Think about all such ramifications before having any argument with me. Now, lets extend this thinking to Jesus had He failed in His temptation. Where would we be had He failed?? Who could have repaired the damage that would have required someone bigger than God??!! Redeemed us??!! Perhaps a even a little stretching of the mind might help clear up some misundertandings we have. Try it. I've been there. Lets see what you come up with. The Bible. Did He not grow in stature and wisdom? Did He not learn obedience? The Bible. The Jewish tradition of things. Shame of you. I wonder what would have happened had God allowed Jesus to be tempted at that age __ maybe even rule the world? Is age now the criteria? make the difference? He was only a couple of days old by that standard __ and he was a baby with regards to obedience. You really don't want to argue with that, do you? Perhaps I should consider that an insult, personal attack, maybe? You profess to know the Bible. You would never prove it by what you just wrote. No speculation or conjecture on my end. The Bible holds the info for all to understand who want to know God.

misrepresentation |ˌmisreprizenˈtāSHn| noun the action or offence of giving a false or misleading account of the nature of something:

Why, when Adam, had he submitted to the "cross principle God was after from him", would have been that Divine personality we know as Jesus but who would not have had to suffer the physical cross for the sins of the world?? What is repulsive about that? . . . or, am I allowed to ask? How could you really expect Adam to have divine anything when he didn't even know good from evil and the only way we know that he could get that knowledge was to defy God. You are getting really borderline with the Gnostic teaching and even close to luciferian teaching that albert pike and manley hall wrote about Defy God?? Is that the way your children learned, by defying you?? And what would your punishment have been? In the case of Adam, there were no options. But, why did God have to kick him out of the garden? As with any father grooming his son, obedience to his commands is the initial way of beginning the program of child raising, is it not? Even Jesus went that way until He was 30 yrs old. If you are a father, you should know that. If not, when did you put your toddler behind the wheel?

Doctrine? But whose when explained?

Why, when Adam, had he submitted to the "cross principle God was after from him", would have been that Divine personality we know as Jesus but who would not have had to suffer the physical cross for the sins of the world?? What is repulsive about that? . . . or, am I allowed to ask?

I believe it is mostly a matter of perspective that separates us because I don't have a doctrinal "bent". I was taught a long time ago that for us to learn anything from what is written, we must first let it say what it says. I believe in letting the Scriptures say what they say. That method has aided my understanding as no other could possibly do. I highly recommend the procedure. If one is a dispensationlist, a cessationist [anti-Pentecostal], a lapsarian, one who believes God decreed everything, and in general, one who is of TULIP persuasion, we will have issues. Example: When I wrote, Adam only interrupted God's plan by his transgression, that Jesus brought reconciliation to, that is exactly what He did __regardless of how you wish to distort it. Do you really want to argue that out?

Some learned men believe Solomon wrote the book.

Sorry, "very good" doesn't say all that. That understanding came from a biased opinion purposed to lead away from the full intent of God set in Himself that necessitated the creation of man. In other words, man is necessary in His plan.. Sorry Bro., but all that is just religious jargon. Nor was it lost in Adam. Better stated: All the original intent by God in Adam was only interrupted by his sin. Here, you have it correct to affirm my last. But we certainly know by Jesus Christ what it is like, don't we??

As the "Son of man", Jesus later reveals to us: God had, from before the foundation of the earth, purposed in Adam a Divine human habitation for Himself with Jesus, "The Word", as the "Head" of this habitation of sons, born of Him, to rule and reign throughout all His creation. Though, initially by procreation was the means by which, this vast family of Divine sons was purposed, Adam never altered God's will that, by procreation, he still birthed them into existence, however, they now needed to be redeemed because they were born in sin. Enter, by sinless birth, Jesus, God's consummate Son, 4000 yrs later. "I have not come to arouse and invite and call the righteous, . . ." [just redeem them] Luke 5:32 (AMP) Speaking of Jesus we have this by Paul: "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." ". . . . . . and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." All of that was purposed for Adam to perform within his heart in overcoming "vanity"! "Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again." "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name . . . . . ". There is no doubt in my mind that, had Adam not transgressed and fulfilled God's original intention, making redemption totally unnecessary, his name would have been changed to "Jesus", The Word incarnated into created Flesh by eating of the tree of Life... ". . . that every knee would bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;" Adam would have been the "human flesh" that defeated Satan. Mark 13:26 Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV) Hebrews 2:10 (KJV) John 12:28 (KJV) Philippians 2:9 (KJV) Philippians 2:10 (KJV)

That would be conjecture. I deal with what is plainly stated in Scripture. Being as is not is. As one of us is used in comparison meaning like. Please stop redirecting with questions. I will ignore them. Great! Then you should be able make the comparison with Jesus Christ because He was/is the SECOND ADAM! What He became was intended for the FIRST ADAM! So conjecture it isn't!

What did God have in mind by doing so?

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. Genesis 3:22-23 (KJV) What do think the consequences would have been had Adam eaten of the tree of Life before he transgressed? After he transgressed?

Jesus learned? But was sent by the Father. Whom the Father revealed all things to as Lord? Heb. 5:7-9 Who in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who is able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His Godly fear, though He was a Son, He learned obedience (faith which obeys God's will) by the things that He suffered. And having been perfected (completed) He became the author of eternal salvation to those who obey Him,---NKJV + the complete Wordstudy Dictionary NT 1 Peter 1:6-9 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of you faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it be tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith---the salvation of your souls. There is no doubt that our faith is tested and tried. This is especially true of Jesus at the beginning of His ministry and at the end of it. And it is those whose faith endures to the end that shall be saved. Our faith is an ongrowing process from when we are first born again till our new bodies are given us. But from the time the Holy Spirit cries Daddy in our hearts we know that God has sealed us for eternity. This seems to be more experiential than doctrinal. It comes as we learn to walk in obedience to His Holy Spirit of love, and we learn to allow Christ in us to express His love and forgiveness. Now, I really didn't understand much of what Cross Reference was saying. But I did agree with most of what others said. I hope that Cross Reference is not fishing for specific answers and ATTEMPTING TO TEACHING IN THE STYLE OF SOCRATES. It is not allowed that people teach here, but rather we discuss and exchange ideas. Only Staff can teach. I have completely lost track of the question(s) and am totally confused. Endless questions that seem to take us nowhere is , well, tedious. Some of us don't have the patience for this sort of thing. Jesus did nothing and said nothing but what the Father gave for Him to do or say. He obeyed perfectly while in the flesh as perfect Man. At times He learned to obey at great cost, especially at the cross. He did not yield to the temptations of satan in the areas of the world, the flesh, and worshipping/obeying the devil. Jesus remained lowly and submissive to His Father to accomplish His will and purpose. Yes, He is our example in overcoming. But more than that, He did it perfectly because mankind is unable to do anything perfectly. Even with Christ in us and the Holy Spirit guiding us, we remain imperfect. And any imperfection is sin. The just shall live by their faith. Christ justified us at the Cross by our faith, and we continue to live the Christian life by that same jusifying faith, just as the old testament saints believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Gen. 15:6, Romans 4, 16, 21-22, 5:9 We overcome by our faith in the character of our God of the Bible who stands behind His Word. We overcome by the Blood of the Cross and our testamonies. Jesus received thirty years of preparation before being sent into the world as God's consummate Son.. Lets not forget that little thing. . .