Sister

Sorry I missed your post sister. We know the last 3 trumpets especially are in order, because 3 Woe periods are given along with them also, including the ordinal relation of the trumpets (i.e., 5, 6, 7). The 5th trumpet - 1st woe is being given at the end of the Rev.8 chapter and the events continue in order all the way to near the end of the Rev.11 chapter with the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe. The Rev.10 chapter serves as a parenthetical chapter and seals the fact that when the 7th angel sounds God's Word given to His prophets for this present world will be done. At the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe are the events that end this present world, the great earthquake, etc., and then we're shown all the kingdoms of this world have become those of The Father and The Son with Christ's future Millennial reign beginning. So when the 7th trumpet sounds we know all the events of this present world are over. And that means the "great tribulation" will have ended on that 7th trumpet also. So within those last 3 trumpets, woe periods, when... is the "great tribulation" timing? And remember, our Lord Jesus showed us in Matt.24, as Paul did also in 1 Thess.5, and Daniel 8, that the tribulation timing will be a time of world 'peace', with craft prospering by the Antichrist. Many miss when our Lord Jesus said we will hear of wars and rumors of wars, BUT..., the end is not yet. They often leave off that very last phrase. So we must consider what He meant by the end, i.e., what timing it is. It is the tribulation, for that is the very end of this present world, the final event being His coming and Armageddon both happenning on the day of the Lord. Hi Salty I am in agreement with you on all the above.

There have been a few great empires in the West since the fall of Rome. France, Spain, Uk, now the USA. Yes the British Empire was possibly the greatest but I just see them all representing Europe. And I believe you have insight to recognise how the USA sometimes acts on behalf of Europe. Its Europe's neighbour (the Islamic Middle East) that is a loose cannon, unpredictable and dangerous. Yet its the USA that spends its hard earned wealth sending out armies to weaken Europe's neighbours for a take-over. Regardless of the strength of the British Empire, to defend your view you need to match fulfilments with scripture. My view is that Daniel 2 refers to a split empire... (v41) ... you have not showed how your view has a split empire, or else how you view v41 My view shows that the split empire followed the iron empire. (Consecutive) . You need to show why consecutiveness is irrelevant in Daniel 2, or how the British Empire was consecutive My view shows how the iron continued on into the two feet empire (the same territory and capital cities), you need to show why there is still Roman iron in the British Empire My view attempts to explain the clay. So its nice to put forward a view, but I like to face each exact fact in a prophecy for a complete fit. Unfortunately this can lead to lengthy debates which even I don't like, but I feel you need a little more work in matching your view with the wording of the prophecy. Hello Argosi The rule of the Roman empire ended at the finish of the legs. The next empire shows us the feet mixed with iron and clay. It's obvious to me that this next empire came out of Rome as it has iron in it still. The British empire came out of Rome, but it is a modern type of roman system. It is a mixed kingdom, hence the iron and the clay. Iron is strong and clay is weak. This empire consists of both, strong nations and weak nations. Daniel 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. Daniel 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. You said earlier that clay is a symbol for religion, but the scripture has already given us the definition of the clay - iron meaning strong, and clay meaning broken not religion. So the feet would be a "mixed kingdom" to me, this is obvious because the British empire consists of strong and weak nations. Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. This kingdom consists of iron and clay. Iron and clay do not stick, but they are of this same kingdom. The iron would be the strength of who is running this kingdom over it's weaker counterparts, ...the other nations of it's own empire. It's this empire, the feet, a mixed empire, that will reform when it comes to the toes. It will have a board of 10 kings (leaders of 10 nations) from within it's own empire. These 10 will be the chief of staff so to speak, and will change laws, and times, to bring in a new world order. These are are today, and will soon declare themselves and show who they are, they will rule for a short time on their own, and their purpose is to prepare the way for a king to rule over them and be their spokesman, this would be the son of perdition. I believe this last kingdom is the British empire, who control most of the wealth and power through their world banking system. I believe it is them that cause wars to bring down nations, and spread propoganda, only so they can go in there as supposed peace keepers, to give aid and lend financial assistance, earning more wealth and power to themselves, gaining more control and territories by dictating the way those war torn countries are run to suit their own agenda.

Hi Argosy, I'm sorry, I could not find that thread you meantioned. All I am trying to point out here, is that the image symbolises the ruling kingdoms starting from Babylon (the head), all the way down to the last kingdom, the feet, and finally the ten toes. Not all the empires of the world are mentioned here, just the major ones that play an important role leading to the last one. We know the legs of iron are Rome because history tells us so. My main point is why would the powerful British Empire be left out of this whole image? After all England first claimed Newfoundand, Canada, the Carrabean, and the East coast of America, parts of India, Asia, Egypt, South Africa, and then other parts of Africa, at one point, 1/3 of africans were ruled by the British. They claimed Australia, Papua New guinea, Faulkland Islands, and many many more.. They control the world banks, which means today they control the USA, and their influence and power is huge. They have rights to all the gold, silver, copper, iron ore, and diamond mines around the world even today. They are wealthy in riches and power, yet they are termed by experts as "the invisible empire". They are so invisible, that the world does not even realise their power and influence, nor has anyone even considered this huge empire in the grand scheme of things, nor in the image of Daniel. All I do is ask you to consider this empire, and not ignore it. You would have to do some digging, and find out if the USA really did claim their independence from England, or was it just a smoke screen? Where do the US tax dollars really go to and where do they really end up? This is all just to give you an idea that this empire should not be left out of the image, as they are not getting weaker, but more powerful each day and we are in the last days heading towards the ten toes, that last empire. Blessings.

Hi Argosy Yes I do believe there is something we should consider here. The statue is quite simple. The legs of iron symbolise the Roman Empire, yes, but there came a time when the Roman empire was no longer ruling. This would be where the feet would start. A new empire, mixed with a bit of iron in it still. This would be the British empire, it's roots are from the Roman. The British empire is still ruling today behind the scenes. The ten kings come out of this empire., the British Empire. The feet and toes have the "strength of iron". Just as Rome was powerful in it's day, this kingdom will be just as strong, even stronger, but will break in pieces at the coming. I believe the 10 toes (10 kings) as mentioned in rev, are coming from Europe (North of Israel) and not from the middle east, but the great war coming will be there in the Middle East and scripture tells us everything leading up to it will finally take place in Israel. Thank you God bless

The 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period of Rev.9 is what you're talking about. That is not about a literal military army and literal war. It is about spiritual warfare. Hi Salty Thanks for answering. Christ returns on the 7th trumpet. He comes during that battle of Armageddon. Before all those soldiers are gathered there, they have to make their way there. The 6th trumpet is describing those armies coming in there, but it's not described for us plainly to understand, because this is how God works when giving prophecy, we have to seek the meaning. I see the 6th trumpet as a real war leading up to Armageddon. There are angels bound in the river Euphrates today. These angels will be let out, and their specific job is to stir trouble and gather the armies to attack in Israel. "The number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand" (Rev 9:16) When John was given this vision, it would of been hard to describe modern warfare as they only fought with swords back then. "....and the heads of the horses were as heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone" (Rev 9:17) I see tanks here. "For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt" (Rev 9:19) I see more tanks here. "By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, an by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths" (Rev 9:18) We need to look at it through Johns eyes. 1/3 of men are really being killed. This is war., and this is physical because people are dying. That's the locust army God first warned about back in the Book of Joel, and He called it "My great army which I sent among you" (Joel 2:25). "And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerwork, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm, my great army which I send among you" (Joel 2:25) God is speaking to Israel here. He is going to restore all the destruction sent on Israel. Everything is in God's command, therefore whatever he uses, he calls his army, because he sends the order. That Rev.9:16 army is the same locusts covered earlier in that chapter back at Rev.9:3-10, which are commanded to not hurt "the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree." They are only allowed to 'sting' those men who are not sealed with God's seal, and told not to kill them. This is the 5th trumpet. One trumpet before the 6th. These are evil spirits let out of the bottomless pit, and they are not sent to hurt or destroy anything green, but to torment men which do not have the seal of God. They do not kill, but torment men for 5 months. The sting (pain) will be as painful as a scorpions bite, and men shall seek death and desire to die, but cannot die. No one is being killed here, just tormented. The later Rev.9:17-19 reveals their power is in their MOUTHS, not with literal weapons of war. Again, if 1/3 of men are being killed, it is not from a spiritual death, but a physical killing. Don't forget this punishment is on Babylon the Great, not the christians. For all those left in Babylon the great who rejected God, do not have God's protection, but his wrath. " And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues"(Revelation 18:4) Our Lord Jesus was giving us symbols for how the locusts (which are a certain group of men) will spiritually attack the deceived for the last days. This is why that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period continues all the way into the Rev.11 chapter where the final 7th trumpet - 3rd woe period is revealed. Within that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period God's two witnesses appear in Jerusalem and prophesy for 1260 days (the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week"). That is the "great tribulation" time when they do that prophesying in Jerusalem, and then are killed at the end of that 1260 days. Yes I agree that the 6th trumpet is the 2nd woe, and the 7th trumpet the 3rd woe, but as I explained before I do not see the locusts as men. Everysingle person who does not have "the seal of God" will be tormented. You would need a lot of men to do that. Men do not come out of the bottomless pit, but devils do. We would have to go back to genesis to understand why there are angels locked up till today, and what their crime was, but that is a different subject. I also agree that the two witnesses will prophesy for 1260 days, but disagree that it has anything to do with the one week in Daniel. That one week in Daniel is past. We can talk about this later. In Matt.24 our Lord Jesus revealed the end just prior to His return will not be a time of wars and rumours of wars, but just the opposite, a time of peace. He said we will hear of wars and rumours of wars, but don't be troubled, for the end is not yet. So as long as wars are going on, the tribulation is not yet. This aligns with what Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thess.5 about the deceived declaring a time of "Peace and safety". That's the kind of event the Antichrist is to create upon the earth for the tribulation, a time of world peace, as per the Dan.8:25 prophecy, with craft prospering by his hand. Everything happens in stages, and in order. There will be rumours of wars "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places" (Matt 24:7) "All these are the beginning of sorrows" (Matt 24:8) These are the begining of sorrows. The rest must follow. In order for there to be a false peace, which I agree with you by the way, will happen to "restore order", but not by God. When there is peace, then sudden destruction, meaning the 7 angels will sound. I agree with the rest that you said brother. I hate that so many have gotten duped by not understanding Rev.9 is not about Armageddon but the coming spiritual war during the great tribulation. Men's doctrines from certain religious organizations have come up with that all out war doctrine for Rev.9 when anyone taking time to actually read and think about the symbols our Lord Jesus gave there, will begin to understand it's about spiritual warfare against Satan and his host the locusts (men). A study in the Book of Joel also reveals how silly their doctrines on Rev.9 are, showing those who preach it that are supposed to know The Word of God in reality reveals they haven't done their own homework in it. Is this supposed to be directed at me? If so I forgive you. I also agree. I have only learn't what I know from the seeking the scriptures alone, and what is happening in the world, and not from any doctrine from a religious organisation. I have stayed away from all that. How many Church organizations today with headquarters somewhere else send their preachers printed Church Quarterlies to preach out of, instead of directly within God's Word as written? NO WONDER so many false doctrines of men get started in today's Churches! Yes there are many, thats why we have to let the scriptures be our judge and final authority, for the bible is the real source of truth. The point of my original reply was to say that the battle of Gog and Magog, is after the 1000 year reign and not to be confused with before the coming. Two different wars. I just want to say that I do not enjoy debating, but I do enjoy us sharing what we have learn't, so thank you. Also, I still don't know how to use this quote thing properly, so forgive me as I become familiar with this site. God bless.

Hi PetriFB This is what I have understood from the scriptures in piecing them together. There are two great battles occuring at two different times. The first great battle is when all the armies gather at Armageddon to make war with the lamb. but before they assemble there together in that one place called Armageddon, those armies will invade Israel to fight each other. The vision given to John shows first the 6th trumpet containing all those armies coming in to Israel (rev 9:16) The 6th vial vision shows the Kings of the east (east of Jerusalem) Iran and his allies crossing in to Israel through the dried up river euphrates (rev 16:12) This is all happening around the same time. So obviously this war starts off with the Kings of the east (muslem nations) invading Israel, and then all the other armies come in to defend, not Israel, but their new occupiers.. Each nation will pick their side, and obviously the muslem nations will stick together. The war will start, but will be cut short by Christ or else no flesh would be saved (Mark 13:20) This would be Christ's appearing in the sky that would stop that war and baffle all those soldiers fighting. Can you imagine the sky being black from all the smoke, then all of a sudden the sky is lit bright, because the lamb and his heavenly armies have come as prophesied. But the armies below do not know it's Christ (for they don't believe in him, or know the scriptures) so all of them there join forces and reposition into Armageddon to become one great army, to fight the lamb together with all their technology and weaponry. The false prophet and the beast (occupiers of Israel) will be thrown into the lake of fire. Babylon will be no more. Satan will be bound for a thousand years. During this time, Christ will set his kingdom up on earth and will rule with his saints. The earth will be at peace for a thousand years, no more wars. After the 1000 years Satan will be let loose, and they will surround to attack the holy camp (the kingdom area) This is called the battle of Gog and Magog. A different battle, the last battle. But they will not kill a single soul in the kingdom area, except turn against each other. They will be destroyed by God himself. This prophecy is way way into the future, and will be the last days of those days. This is what I understand. God bless.