Treasure

but isn't the definition of freedom of religion that "anybody can believe anything or nothing" as they see fit? How is this a distortion of that freedom? Do you define freedom of religion as the freedom to believe Christianity? Actually, this is the freedom..... ~~~ What Our Forefathers Believed ~~~ (Since removing the Ten commandments from the Alabama courthouse, we thought it appropriate to publish this now. This is rather lengthy, but think it is worth reading or even saving to your hard drive.) Did you know that 52 of the 55 signers of the Declaration of Independence were orthodox, deeply committed Christians? The other three all believed in the Bible as the divine truth, the God of scripture, and His personal intervention. It is the same Congress that formed the American Bible Society. Immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of scripture for the people of this nation. Patrick Henry, who is called the firebrand of the American Revolution, is still remembered for his words, "Give me liberty or give me death." But in current textbooks the context of these words is deleted. Here is what he actually said: "An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not to the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death." These sentences have been erased from our textbooks. Was Patrick Henry a Christian? The following year, 1776, he wrote this: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here." Consider these words that Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his well-worn Bible: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator. " He was also the chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest and most important role. On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." Calvin Coolidge, our 30th President of the United States reaffirmed this truth when he wrote, "The foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country." In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools." William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was used for over 100 years in our public schools with over 125 million copies sold until it was stopped in 1963. President Lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation." Listen to these words of Mr. McGuffey: "The Christian religion is the religion of our country. From it are derived our notions on the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free institutions. From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible I make no apology." Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments. James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United States, said this: "We have staked the whole future of our new nation not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments." Today, we are asking God to bless America. But, how can He bless a Nation that has departed so far from Him? Prior to September 11, He was not welcome in America. Most of what you read in this article has been erased from our textbooks. Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the truth about our country's Christian roots. This is the distortion: A time for weeping The government massacre of nearly 100 men, women, and children in Waco is the worst, the most despicable, and the most grievous event ever to take place in America. It is something that never should have happened. It is something that never could have happened IF God-fearing and freedom-loving Americans had been better guardians of the freedoms our founding fathers envisioned and structured in our founding documents. It is something that never would have happened if government servants had been bound by the chains of the Constitution. We must understand that there was more than human suffering and carnage in Waco. A part of the American heart and soul also died there. America will never be the same. Americans have talked a lot about the dark side of religion, but for the most part it isn't religion in America they've had in mind. Jon Krakauer wants to broaden their perspective. In ''Under the Banner of Heaven,'' he enters the obscure world of Mormon fundamentalism to tell a story of, as he puts it, ''faith-based violence.'' In July 1984, in a Utah town called American Fork, Dan Lafferty entered the home of his brother Allen, who was at work, and killed Allen's wife and 15-month-old daughter. Dan, now serving a life sentence, has no remorse about the murders and no trouble explaining them. His older brother, Ron, who assisted in the crime and is now on death row, had received a revelation from God mandating that Brenda and Erica Lafferty be ''removed'' so that, as God put it, ''my work might go forward.'' Brenda Lafferty, a spunky 24-year-old, had been bad-mouthing polygamy and in other ways impeding the fundamentalist mission that had seized Ron and Dan. This is the hope I have: "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." [iI Chronicles 7:14] All of this information can be found at http://www.racematters.org/faithfulfaith.htm. There is much more there that also relates to this discussion. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

You mean like yourself? Hmmmmmm Funny how atheists just looove to join up with Worthy and let all us bac'ward ignern't Christians know that we're all just stupid myth followers. How nice! This is hilarious! Thank you.

This is an interesting thread. I've been intimidated by topics like this and haven't ever posted anything. As I was reading this though, God has shown me that I may not be as theological and well written as most of you, but I do have an opinion that I'm entitled to and someone might want to read. The scientific evidence of there being an Intelligent, All Knowing God is overwhelming. Sometimes we have to put the science aside though, and accept truth. God is the only truth! Life and creation are too well ordered for there to not be intelligent design. The fact is that we could debate back and forth for the rest of our lives about life and faith vs. science, etc... Ultimately though, the science and intelligent debate will not matter. We will ALL bow to the Creator and be held accountable for what we believe and what we have done for God's Son, Jesus, the Christ. Ro 14:11 - [in Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek] For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." Lee Strobel writes in his book "The Case for Faith" "The probablility of linking together just one hundred amino acids to create one protein molecule by chance would be the same as a blindfolded man finding one marked grain of sand somewhere in the vastness of the Sahara Desert--and doing it not once, but three different time." IF there were no God then none of us would have any hope. We would all be condemned as we should all be. It's amusing to me though, that intelligent, well-read, scholarly people can question and be so arrogant as to doubt God's existence and His Deity. The fact of the matter is that God is confident. He has given each of us exactly what we need to believe (a measure of faith) and our belief or disbelief of Him and His Word don't change that truth is truth. He knows Who He is. God is the Only One that can legitimately claim that He Is past, present and future all in one because He is eternal. No matter how highly we think of ourselves, how intelligent we may be, what we might accomplish, it is all filthy rags compared to what God has done. He is eternal and all of what we are is only because He created us to be who and what we are. God is timeless and eternal. Not one of us can claim that in truth. Beth Moore says in her "Believing God" devotion "God is Who He says He is. God can do what He says He can do. I am who God says I am. I can do all things through Christ. I believe God." Not an overly "intellectual statement, but when you have the truth you don't have to be intellectual. We have the freedom of religion in this country. Unfortunately it's a beautiful freedom that (like most of our freedoms) we have distorted so anybody can believe anything or nothing. I think Joshua says it well. Jos 24:15 - [in Context|Read Chapter|Original Hebrew] "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

You, an imperfect being, know how a perfect being would behave? Come now! God's ways are not our ways, and His ways are beyond finding out. It is not His plan that any should suffer. It is the plan of Satan. Haven't met many nice atheists lately. I love this. Very well said.

Amen!

I heard about this on 20/20 last week and have been looking at it myself. Thought someone else might find it interesting. www.ministrywatch.org

Enjoy! -/\/\----------------------------------------------------------------- \ / MY UTMOST FOR HIS HIGHEST -- http://www.heartlight.org/ --\/------------------------------------------------------------------ March 31, 2007 HEEDFULNESS V. HYPOCRISY IN OURSELVES If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and He shall give him Life for them that sin not unto death. 1&nbsp;John 5:16 http://www.SearchGodsWord.org/desk/?query=1jo+5:16&sr=1 If we are not heedful of the way the Spirit of God works in us, we will become spiritual hypocrites. We see where other folks are failing, and we turn our discernment into the gibe of criticism instead of into intercession on their behalf. The revelation is made to us not through the acuteness of our minds, but by the direct penetration of the Spirit of God, and if we are not heedful of the source of the revelation, we will become criticizing centres and forget that God says - ". . . he shall ask, and He shall give him life for them that sin not unto death." Take care lest you play the hypocrite by spending all your time trying to get others right before you worship God yourself. One of the subtlest burdens God ever puts on us as saints is this burden of discernment concerning other souls. He reveals things in order that we may take the burden of these souls before Him and form the mind of Christ about them, and as we intercede on His line, God says He will give us "life for them that sin not unto death." It is not that we bring God into touch with our minds, but that we rouse ourselves until God is able to convey His mind to us about the one for whom we intercede. Is Jesus Christ seeing of the travail of His soul in us? He cannot unless we are so identified with Himself that we are roused up to get His view about the people for whom we pray. May we learn to intercede so whole-heartedly that Jesus Christ will be abundantly satisfied with us as intercessors. /--- Sponsor a Child with Compassion -----------------------\ For less than a dollar a day, you can make a powerful difference in the life of a needy child. Click on the following link to learn more about sponsoring a child through Compassion! \- http://ads.heartlight.org/serve.cgi?req=am_track&go=22 --/ Content-type: text/html =========================== FEATURED PRODUCT ========================= THE PRACTICE OF THE PRESENCE OF GOD, by Brother Lawrence This edition of this timeless devotional classic will help you cultivate a continual awareness of God in the everyday. http://shopping.heartlight.org/cgi-shl/link?223 Find more great books, CDs and videos at the Heartlight store! With each purchase you make, you're helping to support Heartlight's ministry. Thanks SO MUCH for your help! MY UTMOST FOR HIS HIGHEST - by Oswald Chambers /\/\ ===============================================================\ /=== http://www.heartlight.org/devotionals/my_utmost \/ This email is made possible by YOUR donations! If you've found our service encouraging or inspiring, we pray you'll give a voluntary donation to keep this ministry going. Donations are NOT required, but they are appreciated! http://www.heartlight.org/support Visit HEARTLIGHT on the web for even more articles, plus music, devotionals and more for your Christian walk! This devotional is copyright Oswald Chambers Publications, < http://www.oswaldchambers.co.uk >. HOW DO I SUBSCRIBE? It's FREE! To subscribe send a blank email to: join-myutmost@maillists.heartlight.org HOW DO I LEAVE? To unsubscribe send a blank email to: myutmost-unsub@maillists.heartlight.org STILL HAVING TROUBLE? If our automated unsubscribe system isn't working for you, send an email to mailmaster@heartlight.org and let us know what list you would like to leave. We'll take care of you. ======================================================================

Glad you enjoyed it.

I got this in e-mail yesterday and thought it was an awsome article. Hope everyone else enjoys it. God's love to you, 4given1 Silly Love Songs, by Hal Runkel Despite my love for Paul McCartney's post-Beatles work with Wings, I have to agree with John Lennon on this one: the world is full of silly love songs. Romantic love is the most overplayed sentiment in music, especially when it tries way too hard to be sentimental. In fact, that's my definition of the popular slang word "cheesy." My kids hear me use that term all the time and last year they finally asked me for a definition. After much thought (it's actually quite difficult to define), here's what I came up with: "cheesy" refers to any extreme effort to be sentimental. (Of course, then I had to define "sentimental"!) But, I believe that definition applies to what Lennon was referencing when, upon the Beatles breakup, he lamented that Paul only wanted to fill the world with "silly love songs." Words which Paul, of course, adopted into a song titled just that. (And I actually like that song.) But even so, John was right. And the trend towards silly and cheesy love ballads hasn't stopped in the 37 years since he made that statement. For those of us already married, though, we know that most of those songs simply do not reflect reality. Most of those songs are only concerned with the immature efforts to woo some woman or saddle some stud. But, the truth is that it's after the wedding bells chime that the real adventure begins. And few songs are able to capture the ongoing "what now?" of marriage. Few songs are able to articulate how marriage is perhaps the most difficult, and yet promising, relationship we can experience. I have found one such song, however. Unfortunately, the music of this song is incredibly cheesy. So cheesy, in fact, that it's been used in hundreds of commercials and most of us cringe, or laugh, whenever we hear the melody. But then we miss the words. And I believe the words of this song are ridiculously profound. They are able to express the essence of what I believe marriage is all about: a long, daring, difficult journey of two people's personal growth so intertwined that they can actually, occasionally, experience life as one. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the masterpiece of one-hit wonder Dan Hill, "Sometimes When We Touch" (cue the strings): You ask me if I love you and I choke on my reply I'd rather hurt you honestly than mislead you with a lie And who am I to judge you in what you say or do I'm only just beginning to see the real you Right from the opening verse, we hear that this song is different. "I'd rather hurt you honestly than mislead you with a lie"? Are you kidding me? That's one of the most integrity-filled statements I've ever heard, and it the type of courageous honesty that every relationship needs. No wonder none of us ever say it. Over and over, we choose to avoid any pretense of voluntarily hurting our spouse. We're reticent to tell them when they've got bad breath, much less be honest with them about our feelings. I once worked with a client who would nag her husband to near death, but would never dare tell him he's fat. "That's just rude," she would say. But it's not rude to hide your disdain for his body and leave him wondering why you won't have sex with him anymore? The truth is that our spouses usually already know when we have negative or wavering feelings toward them. And when we have the courage to say it out loud, we communicate something far greater than the hurtful words -- we communicate that we don't want to have those feelings remain the status quo. Saying "I don't like you right now" also communicates "and I don't like that I don't like you." And that can be the beginning point to remarkable growth in your relationship. And sometimes when we touch the honesty's too much and I have to close my eyes and hide I want to hold you till I die till we both break down and cry I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides Here's the cheesy chorus we all recognize. Again, because of the ripeness of the melody it is so easy to miss the words. But here we have an appreciation for the true intimacy we both crave and fear at the same time. Sometimes -- not every time -- but sometimes, getting close to our spouse triggers an insecurity that can be terrifying. Marriage has a way of exposing us nakedly, warts and all, before another person and before ourselves. And that type of honesty is not usually comfortable, and not usually something we seek. Getting close to someone can bring us companionship, acceptance, and even lead us to the ecstatic thrill of orgasm while in the arms of the person we cherish more than any other on the earth. Getting close can also, however, bring us face to face with our partner's flaws, our own inadequacies, and the mountainous anxiety we feel about how much of our lives we've entrusted to this union. That's why we sometimes try to connect and hide at the same time. Think about it. How often do you close your eyes during any embrace with your spouse? When you hug? Kiss? Make love? We so often close our eyes during any kind of embrace because the honesty of intimate connection is "too much," and we "have to close [our] eye and hide." Sometimes we seek the touch without the intimacy; we end up connecting with our genitals in order to avoid connecting with our eyes. That's because it is sometimes easier to copulate with parts of ourselves than openly communicate with all of ourselves. At times I'd like to break you and drive you to your knees At times I'd like to break through and hold you endlessly At times I understand you and I know how hard you try I watched while love commands you and I've watched love pass you by At times I think we're drifters still searching for a friend a brother or a sister but then the passion flares again Marriage is not a relationship built for the short term. It is more like a marathon requiring incredible endurance and persistence, despite the wide variety of feelings and experiences along the way. And the best marriages are the ones unafraid to feel all those feelings, and even acknowledge them once in a while. And that's what the song does here. Who among us hasn't wanted to vindictively break our spouse and drive him/her to their knees? In the heated exchanges of emotional reactivity, who hasn't felt this: "I cannot ever win with you!" Such an experience can be tremendously powerful. As if it were a battle in the first place. Have you ever heard the story about the two campers in British Columbia, Canada? They're sitting around the campsite when a grizzly bear wanders up near them. Beginning to freak out, one starts to put on his running shoes. "Dude!" whispers the other one. "What are you doing? You can't outrun a grizzly bear!" You can guess the response: "Man, I don't have to outrun the bear!" In relationship battles it is easy to just care about winning, regardless of who loses. What I especially love about this bridge in the song, though, is the repeated phrase that begins each thought. "At times" we do want to break down our partners, while "at times" we want to embrace them forever. "At times" it does feel like we're just roommates, or siblings, just looking for someone to help us feel a little less alone. And then "at times" that strange desire for deeper connection erupts from within, leading us toward each other in ways far beyond mere friendship. And sometimes when we touch the honesty's too much and I have to close my eyes and hide I want to hold ya till I die till we both break down and cry I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides The greatest thing you can do for your marriage is focus on yourself, learning to calm your own anxiety as you pursue greater connection with your spouse. This means moving away from the mutual needs-meeting matchup so often highlighted as the ideal marriage, where we become responsible for propping one another up. It means moving towards a model that sees a great marriage as occurring between two strong, separate selves who choose to be together as one. Dr. David Schnarch has a remarkably simple, yet remarkably scary, exercise for couples wanting to grow themselves up in this way. He counsels people toward "hugging till relaxed." This involves holding your partner in your arms in such a way that neither one of you is supporting the other -- either one of you could let go and neither one of you would fall. In such an embrace you are capable of strong emotional and physical connection, and yet you are each standing on your own two feet the whole time. The key is to resist the urge to make sure your spouse feels comfortable, or making sure your spouse is "there for you" as you begin to relax. The key is to focus on yourself, concentrating on finding your peace within as you embrace the one you hold dearest. Such an experience can be tremendously powerful in teaching us that even in the midst of close connection, our emotional responses are still up to us. It is not my spouse's job to calm my fears and ease my anxieties by telling me what I want to hear, or making promises to me about loyalty or security. It is my job to say yes to my marriage as it forces me to examine myself, calm my own fears, and boldly pursue the types of conversations, connections, and yes, copulation I really crave. I don't want to run from you in order to feel safe; I don't want to "trust" you to make me feel stable. I want to hold you till the fear in me subsides. So there you have it, folks, a cheesy love song unlike most others, one that actually calls us into authentic, integrity-filled relationships. Yes, the song is incredibly cheesy. It is, in many ways, one of John Lennon's hated "silly love songs." But what's wrong with that? --------- © 2007 Hal Runkel <hal@screamfree.com> and Scream Free Living <http://www.screamfree.com> RELATED LINKS: * What You Think of Yourself is Important http://www.heartlight.org/family/family_v211.html * How Do You Measure Yourself http://www.heartlight.org/articles/200508/...reyourself.html * Marriage Can be a Lot of Work http://www.heartlight.org/articles/200508/20050820_work.html * Scream Free Living http://www.screamfree.com This article can be found on the web at: http://www.heartlight.org/articles/200703/...ylovesongs.html

This is very interesting. One of those things that makes me go "hmmm". God's love to you, 4given1

I love to teach. My goal is to have a teaching ministry of some sort. Actually, that's my calling but as of yet, I have no idea where exactly God is calling me or what His steps for me are. But.....that's my story and I'm sticking to it. God's love to you, 4given1

There was a time when I "heard" a voice saying "don't read the Bible.....". I was convinced satan was behind this one and so I force read for a couple of months only to finaly hear God wording the full sentance: "don't read the bible....with your own mind!". That was an awesome lesson. If I could only put it to practice...... hupo, We all do struggle from time to time and even face guilt about reading or not reading the Word. I understand your struggle because mine is the exact opposite. Personally, I believe that God doesn't want us to follow some kind of protocol in reading His Word, but just to read it. It's about getting to know Him and allowing Him to show us who we are. Maybe you could try reading a good devotional. Not only are you getting the Word into your spirit that way, but you're also being taught a possible application for it. Then, once you work through the frustration of having to force yourself to read it, you'll learn to enjoy it. God will help you with this because He wants this relationship with you. God's love to you, 4given1

This doesn't suprise me so much as it saddens me. All these people (and probably more) that are being deceived. God's love to you, 4given1 Rom. 8:28 God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.

It would be terrible to be separated from your family like that. But yes, sounds like she's blonde (or gray like me ). There is actually an old movie that has kind of the same story line. Anyway......interesting news. God's love to you, 4given1

Patrice, You have to realize that forgiveness is forgiveness. I struggled with that for years. I had some things happen to me in my childhood and as a result of those things, made some terrible mistakes when I became an adult. I kept going back to God and telling Him that I was sorry over and over. He finally told me that I had to forgive myself. He'd already forgiven me and cast my sins from the east to the west.....I had to forgive myself though. It was like the devil would remind me of my past and I'd be faced with the guilt and condemnation over and over......so I'd run back to the cross and.........it was just a vicious cycle. Then I heard Joyce Meyer say once that if you're a Christian then your past is none of the devil's business because it's under the blood of Christ. Now I remind the devil of that when he tries to put that garbage on me again. If you're not a Christian, that's the place to start. Ask Jesus into your heart and accept His sacrifice and then the devil has no weapon against you and he must flee when you use the Word of God against him. I hope this helps. God's love to you, 4given1