Serving

Yes, it's a good subject. Just in case, and to clear something up beforehand .. the examples I gave regarding the attack on Israel, and the night and day cross reference .. I wasn't suggesting that was the same event as the original subject matter of this thread. Two different time frames within the same process taking place, the Isaiah attack is at the very beginning of Israel's occupation, and the original post of this thread concerned the very ending of Israel's occupation .. the day and night link speaks of a process whereby time is available to flee .. that was just a minor link between the two scriptures I was highlighting, nothing more since they are two separate events during the same occupational time allotment, that is, within those last 3 1/2 years .. Isaiah speaks to the beginning (the attack is what I focused on) and Luke referred to the end of the process (the fleeing I focused on) .. That link between night and day was just an excuse to expand the subject and link them all up for extra subject matter down the track .. Regards.

Oh, and the covenant Michael .. Check this out brother : 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Same timeframe/players ..

Haha .. excellent observation there brother. I was hoping nobody noticed actually in case nobody answered I was going to use it to lead into another related subject about night and day .. Since you so excellently spotted that, I will share it now .. Isaiah 28:14-19 14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. 17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. 18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. 19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. That's the attack and occupation of Israel that is to come. Thanks for commenting brother.

Hello all, I've not made a post for some time, but I feel inspired to speak about something that has eluded me for so long now, it's been in the backburner of my mind and it is only because a brethren brought this subject up again recently that I decided to revisit it .. And after 10 years gathering dust in the background of my mind, "I" finally worked this out earlier today, or better said, The Lord finally let me understand, and to be honest .. it's so simple I'm kind of embarrassed by it, but at the same time it is marvelous because through the understanding given me now, I realize just WHO these are being spoken of below .. at long last .. so here are those elusive scriptures that have frustrated me and others for so long: Luke 17:30-37 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Remember, all glory to the Lord .. Want to know who the above group is? Walk with me a minute and lets do this together .. behold: Look at v30 .. that is the coming, the revealing of the Lord. Evidence: 2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, Simple .. lock it in .. NEXT > WHAT is v31 saying? Look at it again please .. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. What is that actually saying? It is saying >> FLEE >> To "Not return back" means to FLEE .. keep that in mind .. NEXT > WHO is being told to flee? .. I'm splitting up v31 from above okay .. 2 parts .. (a) & (b) v31(a) .. "he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away" Those are "Householders" .. and they are told, don't even get your "stuff" >> meaning , FLEE !! And the other group mentioned in that same verse : v31(b) .. "and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back." Those are Workers !! If you are out in the "field" .. you are at work !! Pretty simple, if you're at home .. FLEE .. if you are at work .. FLEE .. pretty simple, so lock that in too please .. NEXT > Look at v34 .. WHERE are those located? 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. A: These are located at home, in BED !! Again, Who did v31 mention? .. householders .. householders told to >> FLEE !! Householders in BED !! And furthermore, where are those in v35 & v36 located? 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. At work !! Exactly where this lot are in v31(b) : "and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back." .. And what were the workers told to do again? >> to FLEE !! See? Perfect match !! Thus, this group are in fact, and can only be, the remnants in Israel, those still alive and being told to FLEE at the actual revealing/appearing of The Lord .. that is, on the Day of the Lord itself, the 2nd coming .. You know, the ones who flee through the valley the Lord opens up at His return .. them. See how the Lord disguised the true meaning? I know I was concentrating on those being "Taken" .. that word "Taken" had me concentrating on a "Harvest" and thus thought those lot were a group being harvested .. being "taken up." But they were not .. They were in fact fleeing under their own steam per instruction given in v31 .. These are so so obviously the remnants that remain alive IN Israel at His appearing .. when the real fireworks start going off .. It's so clear now it's been pointed out right? Oh, last thing, I can now confidently dissect this seeing it correlates perfectly with my explanation given above. take a look : 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Thus, in light of the new understanding, the body is obviously Jerusalem and the eagles are obviously the enemy armies gathered there abouts. So simple now when explained isn't it? You can now see the passages explain themselves so clearly with this new perspective .. Thus with clarity I can confidently say that the above group can only be those remnants IN Israel mentioned in the OT prophecies at the time of His 2nd coming .. they were not killed at the mark of the beast, they were not taken up to meet Christ in the air .. instead .. they were told to FLEE at the time of His appearing (because of the raging war against Christ when He appears in the clouds) .. think NUKES .. which neatly explains why the Lord has this group FLEE through a mountain valley He opens up for them at His appearing .. what do they say is the best place to be in a NUKE attack .. in the covering of solid rock .. in the mountains. Without a single doubt .. these are them .. this is not a "rapture" or a "taking up" .. this is "flee for your lives" situation .. that is how they are "Taken" .. God is telling them FLEE .. thus metaphorically speaking, the Lord does indeed "take" them .. just not in the way I/we all thought. I hope this excites at least somebody as it has me excited .. Praise the Lord. Thoughts?

John 3:34 is not about men receiving the Holy Spirit without measure, but about the Son being the one receiving without measure. Take note of who this "He" is being mentioned : John 3 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. If men were not given the Spirit by measure, then the above underlined wouldn't even make sense, let alone made mention of. You would only say it if there were indeed a limiting measure or "cap" for Holy Spirit being measured out unto men. And within that "cap" measured out amongst men, fullness of Christ can be attained .. within that cap/limit that is. God does remove His Holy Spirit from those who fall away .. your branch couldn't be a branch without the lifeblood coursing through it, lifeblood being the Holy Spirit .. And your branch wouldn't be cut off unless that "lifeblood" no longer coursed through it .. Had it .. lost it.

You're flesh inside and out right? So that's okay but being Spirit inside and out is not? That doesn't make sense.

Please refer me to the scripture you are talking about. It starts here : 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Obviously talking about Jesus .. no mystery there .. but there is a mystery because it says so in that very same verse .. so obviously the mystery is to do with God manifesting in the flesh etc .. When working it out for oneself, you start to realise that the mystery eventually leads to being about the Word of God. What does he mean by Word of God .. And when you do the hard yards investigating it, you eventually realise that the statement : "Word of God" is not just a title .. no, it's something even deeper and more literal. So I misspoke by saying, "Mystery of the Word" as though a scripture was actually spoken that way .. I spoke it from what I've called it for just over 10 years now because that is what the rabbit hole leads to when you eventually work it out. It leads to being about what "Word of God" really means .. and it means something beyond just a mere title .. that is the mystery. And what it means directly relates to what we are discussing .. I just haven't started harping on that point yet.

Yes correct. I was pointing out that the "Godhead" in Jesus here : .. was actually referring to The Fathers Spirit within Jesus. He questioned that .. he questioned whether I believed that the Fathers Spirit was in Christ .. so I gave him this : John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Which led to this example : What I was saying here was that you wouldn't say "within Transmogrified dwells the fullness of Transmogrified bodily" because what else would be in Transmogrified other than Transmogrified? You? me? what, only half of Transmogrified dwells in Transmogrified ??? See? Of course we have Spirit and soul within us, you must have misunderstood where I was coming from and why I was saying it. Our discussion is jumping around a bit after all, easy to miss the context.

Look at it this way .. For in him (Transmogrified) dwells all the fullness of Transmogrified bodily. See that? Doesn't make sense right? So yes, it is saying something other than it appears.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. That is part of the mystery of the Word of God. I get the feeling from your question that you're not 100% sure what the mystery of the Word of God is .. are you? The concept behind it at least? You probably are, but I'm just asking.

I believe all scripture. What we have here is a clash of perspectives. You're really focused on that scripture aren't you? Okay, okay, okay, Lol .. Here is my reading of it : In Christ's body dwells the fullness of His Fathers Attributes, His Fathers nature .. found in the body of the one called the Word of God. The Father who is the actual Godhead, well His Spirit dwells within the Word of God without measure .. hence "fullness" of the "Godhead" (of the Fathers Spirit) being in that body called the Word of God, thus signifying Messiahs Authority, office and origin. That is my reading of it. In my opinion, that scripture adds no direct bearing to the discussion regarding the nature of Christs pre human/post resurrected body to be honest. We don't need to focus on it as though it is something more than what it actually is. We are going deeper than that. You do understand the mystery that is the Word of God right? What is the meaning behind the mystery of the Word of God in your estimation? The mystery .. what is the mystery?

Transmogrified, I understand your position. Look, I'll just give a very basic and brief counter argument for now regarding what manner of body Jesus had before the world was and why my claim that giving Him a glorified flesh body instead of His Spiritual body makes him a created creature instead of an eternally existing non created "Being". We agree that the Father is Spirit inside and out .. that's good. Seeing that He is Spirit inside and out .. tell me, how did Christ's "Glorified flesh" body come about? The Word came forth from the Father Transmogrified, The Father is Spirit .. seeing that His Living Word came from the Father, and the Father is Spirit, then what came forth from the Father must be Spirit too. To bring forth flesh, be it glorified or not is just not possible because there is no flesh in the Father, only Spirit .. meaning, for Jesus to have a "Glorified" flesh body before the world was .. then the Father would of had to create flesh for Jesus' Spirit to dwell in !! And that is a created creature Transmogrified .. that is basically the definition of a human being !! Do you see the problem? What sprang forth out of God must by definition consist of that which is within God to be considered eternal and non created .. and that has to be Spirit .. not flesh, but Spirit. If you go and make the Lord flesh, well, that flesh has to come from somewhere else because there aint no flesh within God .. only Spirit .. bring flesh into the mix and well, it has to come from somewhere right? Flesh doesn't exist in God so the only other option is to outright create Him a body of flesh or alter His Living Word into flesh as He was brought forth, which means changing the natural state of that Spirit into another state not natural to it which is an act of creation opposed to leaving that Word that was brought forth in it's natural state which means it remains that eternal Spirit it has always been. See?

The discussion is not dealing with that Spirit that is within Christ, which is the same Spirit within the Father, so we have no argument there .. but rather if the actual Body of Christ Himself right NOW, is fully Spirit both inside and out or not. I must thank you though, for your resistance forced me to really think about this topic on a deeper level than I have previously afforded it. I prayed before answering you this time around and lo and behold, the answer sprang forth as I was writing my answer to you .. so I thank God for the answer and not my own powers of reasoning. Therefore, before I give the explanation, I will riddle you this for now : By giving Christ a Glorified flesh body before the world was actually makes Christ a created creature !!

Transmogrified, I already provided the scripture revealing that our Lord was a Spirit being "Before the world was". Surely we agree that Spirit is neither flesh, nor "glorified" flesh, but it is Spirit right? So why persist in saying that our Lord was a "Glorified" flesh being "Before the world was" when scripture I already provided clearly stated that He was Spirit before the world was? Spirit is superior to flesh, be it plain old flesh or so called "glorified" flesh .. Nevertheless, one can not have "glorified" flesh until one first creates flesh. And flesh was not created until after the earth was created .. so the Lord can in no way be a "glorified" flesh being before the world was when there was no flesh before the world was that was to eventually become "glorified" flesh down the track !!!! it's circular reasoning and makes no sense at all. In fact, you demote our Lord by making Him flesh .. Satan & his angels are spirit beings you know .. this doctrine then makes our Lord lesser than Satan & his host, for Spirit is greater than flesh .. scripture and common sense tells us this. Also .. no offence intended but I find it strange that I have to explain this next part ..but here it is anyways . Your statement that flesh and bone and flesh and blood are two different things is really stretching it thin to be honest .. look, flesh and bone & flesh and blood just means that you are a human being .. it always has and always will. Claiming that flesh and bone means a "glorified body" is just not true .. Do a bible word search, there are 33 pages of examples proving this .. here are just 2 examples from just one page .. Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 1 Chronicles 11:1 Then all Israel gathered themselves to David unto Hebron, saying, Behold, we are thy bone and thy flesh. You see? Even mere mortals identified themselves as "flesh and bone" !! Flesh and blood and flesh and bone mean the same thing .. Thus, John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. And, Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. These tell us WHAT the Lord truly is .. He is Spirit ... I leave it with you.

Transmogrified, I see you are using this : 'And the word became flesh and dwelt among us...' to explain why the Word of God appeared in the flesh in the days of Abraham .. problem is, it does not belong in that timeframe. It belongs here : John 1 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. Jesus actually dwelt amongst Israel for 33 years, He was born there .. at no time prior this event did He physically dwell amongst Israel, He made appearances, but He did not dwell amongst them. That leads to this statement you made : "So the Word of God that appeared to Abraham was Jesus in his glorified body that he had from before the world was." Here is a description of the Word's body "before the world was" : Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. The "Spirit of God .." Remember this : John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. You should think on this for a while ..

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. It matters not, what kind of body we are given, but the body that we will be given .. will be like our Lord's Body .. And that body is this : John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. And that body is Spirit. Note, this was stated for a reason : Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. That word "Quicken" means something. Let us imagine we could speed up the vibrational rate at which our bodies (atomically speaking) naturally vibrate at .. according to some scientific assumptions, it is highly likely we would become ethereal .. that is .. Spirit. Reverse that quickened state and spirit would revert back to .. flesh !! This is all that is happening when our Lord, or any spiritual being, appears in the flesh .. he is slowing down his vibrational frequency. Why else would the Lord need to "Quicken" our mortal bodies which are flesh bodies if .. if we were to remain flesh? That would be a contradiction. But, if that mortal body were to be changed into a body like the Lord's .. that contradiction is removed .. for : John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Thus, if our bodies were to be like His body, then our bodies, obviously, will become spirit too. It is not logical to assume that what was meant by "to be Like Him" would mean to actually look like Him, no, but to be "Like Him" in our physical makeup is obviously the intended meaning .. that's the only two options when analyzed and from that only one answer can be meant for the other answer would be nonsensical in comparison. Therefore, what "body" we are given in that context matters not in relation to what appearance we are given, no, but rather pertaining to what that body is made out of .. and it is clearly made out of spirit in this context of John 4:24. I see no reason for objection when an argument can clearly be made for our bodies being changed (quickened) into spirit via the scriptures given .. however, I can see the objection in the reverse, that is, that our bodies will remain flesh, be it some sort of glorified flesh, whatever that REALLY means or mere restored flesh .. seeing that this argument clashes/contradicts with the argument given and revealed in the scriptures that our Lord is indeed Spirit and that we would be "Quickened" to become "Like Him" .. one would have to make Him flesh to make the other argument valid .. and that obviously would be nonsensical and would obviously contradict John 4:24.

First a question : Concerning the 7 angels, who do you think these angels are? Secondly, for clarity .. Picture this image in your mind : Judges 7:20 And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon. Now replace the three companies of men with the 7 angels, replace the lamps with the vials/bowls, can you see the correlation as to how the 7 angels are "armed" as it were, as they leave the Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony? Thirdly will relate to statements you made in your post after we dialogue a little first .. Sound good?

Hi DeighAnn, Consider this : When putting the relevant verses of Rev 8 & Rev 15 together, a clearer picture emerges .. Besides the validity of the scriptural justification for me doing this, which we can speak about further if you so wish, first just contemplate the sequence laid out when the two are joined as one .. Rev 8 & 15 Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

This is a test reply, I have not been able to post ... Just reset my account, hope this works ... Testing ...

Well Rev 8:13 tells us that the trumpets affect the inhabiters of the earth, this tells me the trumpets are not solely for Israel but are global : "And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!" And Rev 16:2 deals with all who have taken the mark of the beast, that would include the people of Israel for they take the mark of the beast too, the whole world does : "And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." "Israel" already suffered for rejecting Christ's gospel .. 70ad fulfilled that. Not sure what angle you're coming from, what kind of answer you're actually asking for in relation to the overall topic? What I believe God is doing within those first 4 trump/vials affecting the earth,sea & fountains of waters, besides them being punishments .. is that God is not only disrupting the global "natural foundations" upon the earth by targeting these things, being earth (arable land), sea (already dangerously low oceanic food stocks), fountains of water (already dwindling & accessible drinking water), but He has enacted a process of dismantling the global orders "sustainability" .. the effects of course will be another "agitation" speeding up the breakdown of the global alliance/beast system itself in preparation for the then still future & coming Third world war taking place right before the Armageddon event. Cause and effect not only punishing/affecting global populations but also pushing the global order to breaking point whereby it fractures once more into opposing blocks before it's destruction. Well the 5th trump talks about stinging "Locust's" that cause unbearable pain and the 5th vial talks about the peoples gnawing their tongues from the pain & their sores .. stings cause deep muscle pain when multiple stings are suffered & they also leave behind sores .. obviously. So they both speak of everybody suffering pain .. the trump explains the source of that pain (Locust's), the vials explain the severity and physical result of that pain. Both the 6th trump & vial deal with the Euphrates .. both trumps & vials focus on enemy spiritual moves being initiated of whose actions are directly affecting and sent amongst mankind/the nations. 7th trump & vial declare the ending of the 7 angel process, 7th trump says "Finished", 7th vial says "It is done". But that's not the end of wrath all together .. that's just the wrath of the 7 angel judgement/process being completed. The Lord still pours out more wrath after the 7 angel judgement .. He has yet to personally "visit" targeted nations and all surviving world leaders .. notice the world leaders are trembling at the face of Him who is sitting on His throne ? This is because the Lord has now reclaimed His earthly throne at the conclusion of the 7th trump/vial .. being, of course, after the Lord already came in the clouds and destroyed the gathered armies at Armageddon along with the global catastrophes accompanying that event .. so there's a more "Personal" or "Hands on" event still about to happen after the 7 trumps & vials. There's the Wrath of the 7 trumpet/vial process .. and then there's the actual Day of wrath immediately following the conclusion of the trumps/vials .. but that's another topic, though directly related, it is not the same wrath as the 7 trump/vial wrath. Hope that answers your questions.

Hi Hartono .. Likely the 4th trumpet sounds, the third part of the moon & sun is darkened as a result .. people look up and say to each other, "what's coming now" ? and then the corresponding vial is poured out not long after, who knows, 12 hours later perhaps and then bam !!! Great heat follows. As valid an explanation as the next, it's just a matter of biblical perspective is all. This is my explanation anyways.

Hi abcdef, I've considered and thought about it yes, here's where I am at .. I approach this prophecy in the same light/method that God used through Moses with Pharaoh, that being, it was a set process that came in consecutive stages. Same approach. My reasoning? Every prophecy I've read I've noticed that God always brings about His will in stages .. be they blessings or punishments, they always come in set stages that He lays out to bring about His will in a consistent and identifiable manner I see this prophecy no different, I see this prophecy unfolding by the same method God always used/uses .. and it makes logical sense to me, and is biblically sound to me. One thing I must point out though .. something I think many people overlook when approaching this prophecy .. it's not only the 7 plagues being unleashed during the 3 1/2 years they take place within, but the two witnesses will also be unleashing plagues during the same time frame .. and what does scripture say the two witnesses will do? It says, Rev 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. It is quite possible/likely that the two witnesses will operate by passing predetermined judgements at preset times .. and whenever a predetermined judgement is passed, as laid out in the 7 trump/vial order .. 1 angel will respond to the two witnesses "judgement call" in kind .. rinse and repeat all the way through to angel #7. Then add this to the equation from the above explanation/and aforementioned highlighted scripture : "as often as they will" .. "As often as they will" is NOT the same as the preset 7 plagues of the 7 angels already laid out, so there will likely be the 7 plagues PLUS whatever plagues the two witnesses unleash along with the effects of the 7 trump/vials. Notice the two witnesses are killed not long before the 2nd coming itself .. That means that they MUST be operating at the same time the wrath of God is being unleashed .. meaning, the 1260 days the two witnesses prophesy for, are taking place within the 1290 days, or .. more plainly put, taking place during the last 3 1/2 years before Christ's return during the same time frame the false prophet is also operating within. So in conclusion, the effects of the 7 angels aren't the only effects the world must endure during that time period, but it must also endure whatever plagues the two witnesses release ALONG WITH those after affects of the 7 plagues themselves. I hope this explains my position clearly enough?

So only one gathering and entering into that Temple .. post trib only.

Sorry LD, I corrected my mistake .. i wrote post trib instead of mid trib .. I corrected it now.