8thdaypriest

I personally believe in TWO divine beings - God the Father, and His divine begotten Son - who incarnated into flesh as Jesus the Christ. So far - I have found in the Scriptures no command and no example that I should pray to, glorify, serve, give thanks to, or in other wise worship a THIRD divine being. Paul opened almost every letter with "grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ". What?? Did Paul forget the Holy Spirit -- all those times? Romans 1:7 “To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Corinthians 1:3 “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” 2 Corinthians 1:2-3 “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Ephesians 1:2 “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Ephesians 6:23 “Peace to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Philippians 1:2 “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Colossians 1:2-3 “To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colossi: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,” 1 Thessalonians 1:1 “Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 “Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Timothy 1:2 “To Timothy, a true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.” Titus 1:4 “To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.” Philemon 1:3 “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” 2 John 1:3 “Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.”

Not sure how to change my profile. I am female - not male. I am trying to find a list of your "fundamentals". What denomination are the moderators of this forum?

Not sure I like having a label on me. I have searched and studied for some 38 years now. There are many, many versions of the "fundamental faith" that I have studied. Each one has a list of "fundamental doctrines". Some of those doctrines I agree with. Some I disagree with. Does this label me a seeker? Or maybe a heretic? Am I not allowed on this forum if I do not agree with all of the fundamental doctrines? I may as well leave now. I personally find that my beliefs are either strengthened or challenged as I debate with others who are familiar with the Word. If we cannot defend our beliefs, then how strong are they really?

In His last prayer to His Father, speaking of those who would believe, Jesus prayed: John 17:20-21 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me." (NKJ) I don't think anyone is claiming that being made "one" with the Father and the Son, makes one a divine being, or somehow no longer a separate sentient being. We become "one" when the Spirit of the Father fills us, as dwells in us, AS it filled Jesus. How were Jesus and His Father "one"? Answer: The Spirit of the Father dwelt IN the Son. Jesus said, "the Father who dwells in Me does the works" (John 14:10). John 16:32 “I am not alone, because the Father is with me.” John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.”

There you go - getting personal, telling me that I "have wrong headed idea about these matters". I ONLY tell others WHAT I believe, and WHY I believe thus. I do not agree with you on this matter. And you do not agree with me. For you to say to me that I "have wrong headed idea" means that you are claiming Biblical interpretative superiority. Are you claiming "inspiration" for your self - for your posts here? I believe that God (the Father's) first action was to beget a Son in His exact image - His exact likeness. This WAS "the beginning". God (the Father) then did everything else THOUGH His Son. Proverbs 8:22-25 “The LORD possessed me [anointed me] at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. I have been established [anointed] from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth. When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills, I was brought forth;” This passage from Proverbs is from an allegory on wisdom. Solomon was inspired to write these words. They are the words of Christ concerning Himself, and His existence with His Father prior to His creation of “all things,” and prior to His incarnation. Paul was alluding to this passage when he wrote, “...Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God” (1Cor.1:24) and “...Jesus Christ, who of God is made unto us wisdom...” (1Cor.1:30). The Hebrew word in this passage translated “brought forth” means “to be born.” In the Septuagint translation (300BC) from the Hebrew, the Greek word “gennao” was chosen. This is the same word which Paul uses in Hebrews 1:5, speaking of Christ. NOTE: “Gennao” is Strong’s #1080, gennao {ghen-nah'-o}. Meaning: to beget, to bring forth. Proverbs 8:25 “before the mountains were settled, and before all the hills, he begets me.” (LXE) NOTE: The LXE is an English translation of the Septuagint by Sir Lancelot C. L. Benton, 1844. John 17:8 “I came forth from You and they have believed that You sent Me.” John 16:28 “I came forth from the Father AND have come into the world.” Matthew 16:16-18 [Peter said] “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” [And Jesus said] “Upon this rock I will build my church.” John 17:5 [From Christ’s last public prayer at the last supper] “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” Was Jesus, was Paul, were the disciples trying to mislead? A son - in any language - is one who was begotten by a Father. Why call Him the Son of God, if He was not really a Son at all? Did He simply take the role of a son, when He incarnated? I don’t believe so. Proverbs presents Him as begotten before anything was created. He shared the glory of the Father, “before the world was.”

The priesthood - originally - was inherited by the firstborn son. Before the CALF idol incident, the LORD commanded that the "firstborn" would belong to Him. The LORD changed this at Mt Sinai, after the golden calf incident. I believe the LORD has "changed" the priesthood BACK to the original order - the firstborn of Israel, which is why Christ can be high priest.

Hmmmm. Will I be told the same? Though I would never tell anyone that he/she is a heretic, or does not understand the Scriptures. I just share what I believe. Others can disagree - hopefully without becoming antagonistic, or getting personal.

Doesn't say that God created man in His EXPRESS image. That allows for a likeness, without an exact reproduction.

If God's Son was not "begotten" then He was not a "son" at all. He was eternally co-God. That would mean that God the Father did not "give His only begotten son".

The words "express image" mean an exact copy. They are from the Greek practice of using a seal. The seal was pressed into hot wax to seal a document. The wax seal was an "express image" of the metal ring or other instrument used to press the image. Strong's uses the words "an exact reproduction". BEFORE His incarnation into human form and nature, the Son of God existed as "the express image" of God His Father. Begotten from His Father, (no mother figure is mentioned) would not the Son be an exact copy of His Father? [Think cell division.] Hebrews 1:3 "who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person," (NKJ) Colossians 1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." We still use the expression today, referring to a son as "the image of his father".

Hmmm. Revelation 21:22 "But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." Looks - to me - like BOTH Father and Son will occupy the place of worship for all eternity. No mention of a third divine being called "the Holy Spirit". But that's another topic.

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection," it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be all in all. (NRS) It appears that even AFTER His exaltation to the Father's throne and right hand, the Son will ultimately be in subjection to His Father. If one is in subjection to the other, does that not suggest a hierarchy. I am just joining this discussion. It appears from my reading that two main doctrinal issues are being discussed. 1. The nature of God (as One divine being, or Two beings, or Three). 2. Our relationship to "the Law" (to keep it or not) in the new age of "grace". From my search of the Scriptures, I have concluded that God the Father acts THROUGH His Son. He created through His Son. He speaks through His Son (the Word). He reconciles us to Himself, through His Son. He blesses, and protects, and heals, and restores through His Son. He judges through His Son. He will execute judgment through His Son. He will rule through His Son. Just one example: John 5:22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son." Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. (NKJ) I definitely believe in TWO divine beings - The Father and His Son. I do not believe that the Son was "created". I believe that He was "begotten" from out of the Father, therefore the Son has the same divine nature as His Father. The Father has commanded that all created beings worship His Son, and this is shown in the vision of John. John 5:13 "every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!" You could say that the Son has existed forever, in the same sense that Levi was in the bosom of Abraham and "paid tithes" long before He was actually born, but that does not eliminate Levi as a separate person. Neither does the Son's existence within the bosom of His Father, deny His existence as a separate divine being - with a "will" of His own. Psalm 110:1 "The LORD (ADONAI) said to my Lord, 'Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.'" (Matt 22:44, Mk 12:36, Lk 20:42, Acts 2:34)

First Bowl: A plague causing “loathsome sores” (Rev.16:2). Second Bowl: Every living thing in the sea dies (Rev. 16:3). If the ocean no longer supports life, there is no food chain. There is also little oxygen, because sea vegetation produces 75% of our oxygen. Third Bowl: All of the rivers and all of the springs of water become like blood. They will not support life (Rev. 16:4). Fourth Bowl: The sun gets hotter and scorches men with fire (Rev. 16:8). Possibly a gamma ray burst, or the result of the earth being knocked into a different orbit around the sun. Many will die of the intense heat or of radiation. The “sores” of the first plague may be radiation burns. John may be describing different effects following the same event. Everything is set in motion on the day that Christ removes His people and His Spirit from the earth. Fifth Bowl: Darkness will cover the “kingdom of the beast” (Rev. 16:10). The beast power rules the entire earth - therefore this plague of darkness will be universal. If a large asteroid were to impact earth, dust would be thrown into the atmosphere, blocking the sunlight. Scientists believe a similar hit wiped out the dinosaurs. Sixth Bowl: Demonic powers gather “the kings of the earth and of the whole world” for a global war, against the LORD (Rev.16:14). The nations of earth will prepare to fight against Christ as if He is an invading alien force. Seventh Bowl: “Every island fled away and the mountains were not found. Great hail from heaven fell upon men, every hailstone about the weight of a talent [100pds]” (Rev. 16:18-21). This will be the greatest earthquake ever known! The surface of the earth will be broken apart to an incredible degree - an earthquake with the power to break apart every known fault over the face of the entire earth. I do not see a universal flood of sea water here. If the “sky” is parted, or “rolled up like a scroll,” (Rev. 6:14, Isa. 34:4) that suggests our atmosphere may be disrupted. If the oceans are vaporized by an asteroid hit, the water vapor may be dispersed into outer space - leaving the planet dry and lifeless. NOTE: With no clean air, no water, no food, severe heat then darkness, and then an asteroid shower, while the surface of the earth is broken up - do you really think there could be any human life left on this planet!? Many teach that the saints will reign with Christ, during the 7th millennium, over the nations who survive these last plagues. It hard to believe that anyone could survive the last bowl judgments. Jeremiah the prophet wrote that he saw the earth after the "great day of the LORD". He wrote, “I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void; And the heavens, they had no light., " (Jeremiah 4:23-26). “Without form and void” (Strong’s # 08414 & #0922) – these are the same Hebrew words that were used to describe the earth on the first day of creation, before God made anything (Genesis 1:2). The earth was dark, and without life. Personally, I believe that Jesus will return to rescue His own. He will remove them from the earth, to the City which He has prepared. THEN the last bowl judgments will be poured out. The earth will be left lifeless for 1000 years. Then the LORD will "make all things new" again. And the redeemed will be "returned to the land", to live forever in the earth made new. Blessings, Rachel Cory

Prophecy was given so that WHEN it comes to pass, you may believe (Jn 14:29). Personally, I do not believe that we students of the Word will have it all figured out before it comes to pass. But it is good to study, and to know what the prophecies say, so that when they do come to pass, we will recognize the fulfillment. The trumpets are 1/3 1/3 1/3. The vials are "all" of this and "all" of that. I was thinking about the 1/3 of things and I remembered that "His tail drew 1/3 of the stars of heaven" speaking of the Evil One - Satan. Could it be that the trumpets will be Satan's counterfeit plagues, to fool mankind into believing that he is Christ come? Just about every man on the street knows about the 7 last plagues, but few realize there are 7 trumpets. Concerning "the son of perdition", Paul wrote: 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” NOTE: The only person who was allowed to sit in the Temple courtyard was the anointed King - from the line of David. This alone should tell you who the “son of perdition” is pretending to be. Yes - Yeshua Messiah - the anointed King of Israel. He will make fire come down from heaven (Rev. 13:13). This was the sign of the LORD’s presence for ancient Israel (Lev. 9:24, Num. 16:35, I Ki. 18:38, 2Chron 7:1). The “fire” consumed the sacrifice on the alter in the court of the Temple. This scenario requires a Temple be restored on the Mount at Jerusalem. Blessings, Rachel Cory

THE ROLE OF THE PRIESTHOOD IN THE COMING KINGDOM OF MESSIAH The priests of God in the coming kingdom of Messiah on earth, will offer up “spiritual sacrifices” (1 Peter 2:5). They will also teach the law, judge, settle disputes and administer justice (Mal. 2:7, Exo. 29:35, Lev. 8:33-35 & 9:1, Deut. 17:8-12, Deut. 21:5 & 33:8, Ezra 8:7-8, Eze. 44:23-24). The Apostolic Writings give several examples of “spiritual” sacrifices: 1. praise and thanks to God (Heb. 13:15), 2. our lives dedicated to God (2 Tim. 4:6), 3. the service of faith (Phil. 2:17), 4. our bodies (Rom. 12:1), 5. gifts to the poor (Phil. 4:18), 6. visiting the sick or those in prison (Matt. 25:34-40), 7. and offerings in support of the ministry (1 Cor. 9:13). Blessings, Rachel

EZEKIEL’S TEMPLE - ANOTHER TEMPORARY HOUSE The Holy City measures 345 miles on a side and 345 miles high. It is enormous - compared with Ezekiel’s Temple. Of the Holy City New Jerusalem, John wrote that he “saw no Temple in it, for The Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its Temple” (Revelation 21:22; 22:1,3). When sin is completely cleansed from the earth, and mankind is perfectly reconciled to the Father - there will be “no Temple”- just God and the Lamb (Rev. 21:22). We understand that the Temple of The 8th Day Kingdom, is another temporary House. The people raised at The 8th Day are not yet ready to enter directly into the presence of “the One who sits on the Throne.” They still need a buffer (as it were), a place where they may approach the LORD, while they are shielded from His glory. Rachel

Ezekiel's vision was a PROPHECY. A prophecy may be partly symbolic. I think we all realize that the sacrifice symbolized Yeshua Messiah. We realize that the High Priest symbolized Yeshua Messiah. We know "the prince" symbolizes Yeshua Messiah. IMO: The LORD was pointing Israel forward to a time when Messiah (the Prince) would be reigning. If the LORD had given a vision - at THAT point in time - of a Temple WITHOUT animal sacrifice, the captive Jews may have forsaken the sacrifices altogether. But it WAS NOT YET TIME. Prophecy had not met fulfillment. I do personally be that every person delivered (resurrected or raptured) at the Second Coming will become "priests of God and of Christ" (Rev. 20:6). They will be priests of the order of Melchizedek (NOT of Levi/Aaron). The Melchizedek order preceded the Aaronic. From Mt. Sinai the LORD spoke to ALL of Israel, "You will be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" (Exo. 19:6). Peter repeats these words (I Peter 2:9). It was the LORD's original plan that ALL of Israel redeemed would be a kingdom of priests. NOTE: In the Kingdom there will be no marriage or giving in marriage, therefore no husbands as "head"s of wives. Therefore those who were women in this life will also become priests. The ROLE of the priesthood was the TEACH the Law, and to act as judges. They also officiated with the sacrifices. Hence the NEED for a priesthood during the millenniel reign. There will be many from "the nations" who have not yet heard the gospel. Millions have lived and died without ever hearing of Yahweh, or of His Son. I believe they will be given the opportunity to learn the things of God, and to choose whom they will serve. They will be "the rest of the dead" who will live again at the end of 1000 years. NOTE: I personally believe this earth will be desolate and without life during the 7th millennium. Isaiah 2:1-4 “And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains [above all kingdoms], and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many peoples shall go and say, ‘Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths:’ for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. And he will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” (ASV) Blessings, Rachel

The blood applied to the doorposts and lintel was symbolic of covenant. Those who ate the Passover within a house so annointed were entering into a "blood covenant". Books which might interest you: "The Threshld Covenant" and "The Blood Covenant" by H. Clay Trumbull Heaven itself is "the true Tabernacle" according to the writer of Hebrews (Heb. 9:24). I do not believe that Heaven is divided into two compartments. I believe the Tabernacle with it's priesthood and the process by which sin was "moved" from the sinner, to the animal, to the priest, to the Tabernacle, was a representation for us of the process by which God deals with sin. Consider the outer veil of the Tabernacle. The outer veil of Herod's Temple was 80 feet high, and 3 inches thick. On the veil was depicted beautiful pictures representing the heavens and the earth. At the moment when Jesus died, an unseen "hand" tore the veil from top to bottom. From the Mount of Olives (the most probable spot for the crucifixion) the Roman centurion and others could see across and down into the Temple court. He saw the Temple Veil rent. In that culture it was the custom for a father to rend his robe upon hearing of the death of a son. When the Roman centurion saw the veil rent, he uttered the words, "Truly this was the Son of God." His Father rent His robe. Every detail has great significence. There was a custom in the Ancient Middle East called a "meal covenant". When you ate a meal with someone, especially if you shared salt, you were considered to have entered into a covenant with the other person, and would then do that person no harm. Consider the sacrifice: Each sacrifice was offered with a grain offering, and a drink offering and salt. Every sacrifice was "salted with salt". This symbolized those who ancient Israelites, a "meal covenant" and a "salt covenant". In Revelation Jesus says, "Behold I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him." (Rev. 3:20). Blessings, Rachel