RCruise

Jude

That would mean that Christ was not immaculately conceived as the Bible says. Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Procreation is a flesh bound feature whether man or creature. The Holy Ghost Sanctified Mary's womb with God made flesh for Him (the Word of God) to indwell. There was no sex nor seed mingling involved! How on earth can you even compare this??

I am sorry you received that teaching! In Truth, the Entire Word of God is open to all who seek the Kingdom of God. We also know that no Scripture is of private interpretation meaning that all the diverse views and opinions floating around today, all but one is wrong. The Holy Spirit opens our eyes first to the milk then to the meat of His Word. This does not mean that the Word changes as we grow neither in wording nor meaning but, that it takes on new depth and application in our Spiritual walk. All we need is to read Paul's writings to understand that the "head" and "covering" he is talking about is the natural order that our God, who never changes: "Same yesterday, today and, tomorrow", built into creation from the beginning. Satan fell in the garden just as God commanded. God did not change Lucifer's nature nor created being but cursed him to be lower than all other creation. Yet, the remaining angels (two thirds) who did keep their hearts and obedience to the Lord - "First Estate" were then made protectors over creation because man had sinned and separated himself from God's direct presence. This is a simple thing and not that hard to understand. Now, knowing these things plus the consistent position of the angels to be ministers of God unto man even the Lord in the flesh, we can easily see even as John saw as he recorded in Revelation that they are ministering spirits who have not stopped from the beginning accomplishing all God directs them in. They withhold (let), the evil one, the antichrist, satan's own, until Michael is told to let him loose which is when his real reign of terror (tribulation) will begin. And, until we are taken up in the First Resurrection at the sign of Jesus coming again, they shall continue in their duties unto man as God directs. As I said in my previous post, they know perfectly God's will and order. It is a shame unto their duty if the flesh is glorified while praying or prophesying in the spirit. The other part of the "head" or "covering" is the Spiritual head, the husband, must be in agreement with his wife for he is the spiritual head over his house and his family. His house must be "orderly" in the will of God. A woman who prays or prophesies outside of that "covering" or blessing and agreement of her husband brings shame upon him (her head). Now I know this discourse probably raises the hairs on the necks of a few at least but, I ask those how can you say you love and believe ALL God's Word yet, be opposed to the direct straigtforward meaning before your eyes? Paul did go on to say that this wasn't a "ruling" or "doctrine" in any church but that it is Truth. Regarding diverse teachings, I have this to say: Many ignore, excuse or, plain change the actual simplistic Truth of certain Scriptures to ease their own conscience or cover for their own lack of understanding.

Hi Calamity, There is much fallacy about the "sons of God .... daughters of men" teaching and it really has nothing to do with this verse. Christ made it very clear in a very simple and direct wording that it is impossible for the flesh realm to be intermingled with the Spiritual of which angels (including fallen) are of. Procreation is of the flesh creatures only. That being said, by reading all of Corinthians, we find that Paul is chastising them lovingly in many places for their divisions, doctrines that had infiltrated both from Judaism and pagan. He laid out the place of women later also in chapter 14. The biggest problem which can be easily seen in his entire letter was the dis-organization in that church. There were divisions and arguments and bickerings and their women were in the middle of the uproar. Paul laid out the simplistic order of God's Creation of both man and woman speaking of the power over each. Now we know that we as Christians are to die to the flesh daily that the Spirit of God in Christ abounds even more in us. A woman's long hair is an attraction to the flesh and "glory" or attraction to her husband. In God's natural order of creation, He created the woman out of man to be a part of man that man would not be lonely and that life would continue to multiply so that in the fulness of time as many souls have come to this world as is set. That does not make the woman less for she is a living soul as well as the man and is as responsible for her own Salvation as the man is. What Paul means by "head" and "covered" also is that the woman has her natural leader, her husband over her whenever she is prophesying and that her physical head be covered as well so as to not detract the listener from the spiritual message to the "glory" of her hair and physical (flesh attractiveness). In verse 10 regarding the "angels". A simple trek through the Old and New testament shows us that the "angels" carry our prayers to the Lord and are the ones responsible for our "charge" and bringing God's answers or Word to us. The "angels" who live perfectly and walk perfectly before the Lord, know the natural and Spiritual order of God. For a woman to allow her flesh to be glorified while communicating the Spiritual Word of God is a shame even to the angels. And, when a man does the same covering his head which has no glory or attraction, then the attention is drawn to his physical or "covering" and not to the Word of the Lord. Hope that helps.

Hi Prodigaldaughter! Please don't get me wrong because we must take into account the "Whole Word of God" when balancing the "message". It is written that "the workman is worthy of his hire" and that is true. Jesus sent the first 70 disciples out, He told them to neither take extra clothes nor money. Now many will use this narrated act and the aforementioned verse to pound on guilt to get people to "pay". In Truth, it was a lesson in Faith for the disciples to learn to Trust that God will provide for them on the mission field. So, when I come to your town, just lease me a limo, pay for my room at the Ritz, run an open account for all my meals and give as you are led to according to the Word....a few hundred thou will do. Ok Ok... just kidding! Jesus nor Paul never said supply outlandish lifestyles for "men of God" or themselves. I am reminded of Fred Price last year when he was preaching on his televised sermons in that huge converted College in LA (converted with a few hundred million dollars!). He was telling his congregation how blessed he was that they had bought him a new Rolls Royce a few years back. He went on to say how he (that week) visited a Bentley dealer (Rolls Royce cost the church approx. $250,000 - The Bentley was retailing for $350,000) He went on to say how much he looooved that Bentley but...., just couldn't quite afford it (Price makes six figures annually in his church and ministry). Within a week or two, Price was thanking his congregation for buying him that new Bentley and how he passed the Rolls down to his wife. Now, if anyone is even slightly familiar with the area of that church, within 10 blocks any direction you can find homeless including women and children. Kind of Ironic eh?

WOW! Some really good replies and support for sister kball! Idolsmasher, very profound last post there about helping others. There is not one place in the NT about tithing or the "Law" of tithing. Many will try to twist much on Paul's writings about giving and supplying the saints (including his own needs at times) and turn it "Legalistic". Jesus said it best:

Hey Adstar! Brother it's great to see you still around! Hope all is blessed in your life as always! Ron

Sister Catsmeow! Glad to see you stuck around sis! I always enjoy your posts and sincere commitment to serve Jesus (not the church or man :x: ) ooopss! Did I say that??? The crux of this whole thing boils down to Jesus' simple Words that we must "Love Him MORE than ANY other person or thing on this earth including spouses and children and parents. He said to "abide in me" not in the church or others. The "protestant" church moved away from the domineering politically powerful structure of the Catholic church ages ago yet, she has kept many of her attributes most of which is dominion and control. They use "headcounts" to scale growth and budgets. Many have even hired the "Madison Avenue" type consultants to produce "tickling" advertising. In all the churches I have visited in since 1997, only 1 in about 25 still have alters up front and even fewer have "alter calls". So many people in the Christian circles today like to bash Billy Graham but, last (and every one I have ever seen) crusade I watched him do, he still gave a "come down to the front" alter call at the end. No, the old fashioned "kneeling bench" up front has given way to fancy carpeted steps and podiums where speakers and bands can easily enter and leave without "stumbling" over some dumb structure that used to be a place where a "contrite and open heart" met Jesus Christ. The Corporate Church is a "Stage Show" more resembling Circus entertainment on it's decorated stage than the true place of outreach it used to be where, where broken hearts were made new, and people met their Savior on their knees. The following is a devotion from "Love Worth Finding Ministries" and speaks plenty:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and will probably offend some but, here goes.... The "church" we know, attend, make a mental picture of today, is nothing resembling the "Church" 2000 years ago that is still described to this day in God's Word. Today, the American Church is not considered a "church" by majority of Christians unless it has a sanctuary with pews and a pulpit built by men's hands. Jesus Himself said (and was accused at His trial) that the only temple built by man's hands and was ordained to be done so by God, would be destroyed. He preached that God does not come into wooded walled buildings nor "whited sepulchres" but..., into the heart...the soul of man/woman.(Luke 17:20-21) No, I am not ditzing churches as a whole but, most have become "Corporate Businesses" and suck True Life rather than give it. While it is true we should not forsake gathering with other saints, that can be fulfilled easily without attending a "501c whore" as some call them. In my short time as an evangelist, I do not see a "church" that will be able to "endure unto the end" when great Tribulation comes. At least not in the models we have today. The New Testament Church met in private homes in the midst of persecution. It wasn't until the Sun God Worshipper, Constantine came along that they became a tool of political and spiritual dominion over people's lives. The "Reformation" did not do what many claim it did and Luther did not separate himself from that church. All he did was spread her likeness in structure and organization into what we call protestant churches today. In short, those who can and do walk daily in Jesus Christ regardless whether they can attend a physical structure to worship in or not, have their "house built upon the rock". Those who cannot exist or even imagine their Christian Walk being anything without their precious corner building existing, are on "shifting sand" and in a precariously dangerous place.

All that I am attempting to show here is that we are hypocrites if we boycott one specific product because of the company's decision to promote sin or a sinful lifestyle and yet, still use other products "because we need to" even though they also promote the same or worse. We must remember that it is not how we view our actions but how the world views them. That is why you never saw Jesus or any of the disciples picketing or protesting or boycotting anything. They simply walked into the midst of sin and sinners and in deep Love from above, told and lived the Gospel of Salvation before all who saw and heard them. Not condemnation upon their sins or sinful lifestyles. Like I said before, a sinner knows he is a sinner, there is plenty out there condemning him already. Truely Born Again Christians will not condemn but be a verbal and physical beckoning Light of Love drawing them (if they so desire) to Christ not beating them over the head with His Name. Now, if you want to boycott Zondervan, well.... (just kidddding)

Hi hazel, I was addressing mobile21 originally. Truthfully, it matters little to me whether or not someone "Boycott's" American Airlines or not. This board was originally set up to call for a boycott and I was simply interjecting some Biblical Spiritual truths that you can't boycott the world for it's sin without withdrawing from everything we buy and/or utilize daily including our food. Kraft foods supports gay benefits as well as Microsoft. Almost every large corporation affecting our lives with their products daily support diversity and many have laid off or fired stringent Christians for speaking out against the diversity in the company they work for. But, let's take this a step further: How many Christians enjoy using the NIV version of the Bible? Did you know that Zondervan Publishing is owned by The News Corporation which is owned by Media's "Dark Prince", Rupert Murdock? This Media Mogul is a high up satanist who owns everything from kiddie porn rags to Bible publilshing; porn movie producing companies to Christian broadcasting carrying companies. Every time you purchase an NIV or possibly some Christian book produced by Zondervan, you contribute to satanism and the spreading of kiddie porn. I'll leave this on that note to let ya'll chew on that bit of sour fat for a while.

Hey brother eric!! Blessings in Christ Jesus my friend. Yea, I have been away a while and only have short times to come around but, I will drop ya a howdy from Houston at least once in a while!

Yet Eph 6:19-20 command us to speak out even among adversity and adversity is mainly outside the Church (as stated in 1 Timothy 1:15). I fail to see the connection to "Striving" against the unsaved in protests by using Paul's words; Eph

Dear Sister Cat, You really touched on it right there! We have more Churches and Ministries right here in Houston than I can count yet, hardly any go down to the really dirty and "dangerous" 4th and 5th ward districts in the heart of Houston to touch people and reach out to them in Love.....to touch their hearts with real Christian Love and the Real Jesus Christ. One of my own many burdens of the heart and prayers is that the Lord sends us more to join and stand with us in reaching the hurting, the lost, (many are young people). But, when we approach some for volunteers or support, they act more like the Priest and the Levite in the "Good Samaritan parable" than a group who supposedly have confidence in Jesus Christ. Like I told my wife; "I could die in a car accident any given day (especially in this 4th largest city ) I would rather be knifed by a gangster in a dangerous section of the city doing Christ's work than at peace in my bed having done nothing." Don't let fear stop you from doing that which is right in the Lord's eyes. And, that includes fear of treading upon His Word for He will keep you from that when you step out in Love for Him. We often tend to forget that we not only have the Word of God but also the Holy Ghost and all the Power of God within to guide, correct and, keep us. The flesh will read the verse from Corinthians which you posted as not touching or going near anyone not saved or embroiled deep in sin. But the Spirit reads it to our hearts simply not to "join in" or "bond" ourselves to those and their sins. That does not prevent us from going in to Love and help them. Eph

Hi Sis! There have been a lot of good responses to your post. If I can humbly add anything in simplicity, it is this: The warning Paul gave in II Corinthians 6 was against becoming a part of or joining with those who are not Christ's. Whether in marriage, business, etc.... Some Christians forge friendships with unbelievers and while with them, become like them not living fully in Jesus. They become like that person in the sense of joining in unprofitable or wrong conversation and acts. Ususally, the unbeliever never sees nor hears anything of the Gospel. Yet, as in my wife's case and mine sometimes, we had friends from before Salvation. Some we never hear from because we don't do those things anymore and we just aren't "fun" now. Yet others have drawn closer seeking from us just what has given us peace and fulfillment. Several have accepted Christ just from seeing our lives. In very simplistic terms, as long as you are humbled and walking with Christ daily, continually in His Word so as not to be swayed or "snared", you "can do all things through Christ who strengthens [you]". In other words, you can enter satan's territory with confidence in Christ who already defeated satan. As far as Matt 11:19, Christ was simply showing the hypocrasy of the Pharisees: Mt

You may not fly 30 times a year but even if it's only 1 and you let AA know that you are choosing another airline because of their specific support to the event, then it can make a difference. We are not talking about the boycotts against Disney or Microsoft that are nearly impossible but to an airline that is a pretty easy thing to do. P.S. what's that Nike thing? Whenever Christians get on this "boycott" or "Protest March" bandwagon, I just have to interject. Respectfully and in Love I remind all: Eph

COOKIES!!!???? No one told me there would be COOKIES!! SURE! Lose a server, have a few pc crashes plus get extremely busy with a new job and ministry, finally get a new machine back on the net again and find that your now serving cookies and no one invited me!!! I like mine "First Resurrectionist/Pre-Wrath" style please. (that's Oatmeal with Chocolate Chip in case yer wondering)

Hi Brother George! Since no one has responded to this one as yet, I thought I would throw something in here. Typically, the way most people refer to "mid-trib" rapture as to the timing according to prophecy and signs in the Bible, I would fall in this category. Yet, I reference according to strict Biblical reference actually puts me as "Post-Trib/Pre-Wrath". I believe any who believe in the termed "Mid-Trib" rapture are actually in agreement with my own beliefs and the simplistic Biblical outline also it's just we use differing terms. Of late, I simply say I am a "First Resurrectionist". In other words; I'll be either pulled out of the grave (if dead) or, translated / "caught up in the air" (if still alive) after the dead go up first. Keeping it to the simplicity of tems of "First Resurrection" makes it easily identifiable Biblically. For anyone who has studied any at all on their own know that we shall not be "raptured" before that day. Then it becomes easier to point to all the verses which point to the "First Resurrection". Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. As can be seen in these three simple verses, those who are counted in the "First Resurrection" have gotten a victory over the beast, his image, and his "Mark". The "Pre-Trib" theory so loosly tied with alter-interpretations of unrelated scriptures that do not directly speak of the "First Resurrection" or even these end times, believes that we the Church are gone before the terrible reign of the antichrist, the beast or his mark. How they get "out of here" prior to the "First Resurrection" is a mystery even greater than the loosely tied unrelated Scriptures they try to prove their case with. ??????????????????????????????????????????????? Just some food for thought folks. God Bless.

Hi Angels4u: I am not sure what/who's teaching you are referring to since there has been many posts in here but, I strongly agree with your statement about the Word of God.

Wordsower: No offense but, none of those Scriptures prove the Church/us to be the Bride of Christ.

"Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

There is one Bride and we are not her as if that has any bearing since she does not appear until after the White Throne Judgement. "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2 KJV) "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Revelation 21:9-27 KJV)

Waldens: I agree with Wordsower here and relent to my earlier post that you are making no sense at all. You are taking separate events which have clear and marked differences in timing, involvement, events leading up to them and attempting to stitch them together as one.

Bro. Gary: I just saw this at the end of your post and must have missed it when reading through the first time: The Scriptures define two separate events of satan coming against Jerusalem. The first of course is the "battle of Megiddo or Armegeddon". But, it is in that valley of Megiddo that the A/C and his armies are slain where the blood will fill the valley even up to the Bridles height of the horses. Further that "battle of Armeggedon" is spurred by the A/C and the Beast. Both of them are thrown into the lake of fire after Christ returns and then the "Reign of Peace" begins for a thousand years. But satan only is locked up in a pit and it is he only that is released near the end to deceive the nations again. Also, and very important discernment; Christ is already here! Plus, this time God sends "fire" out to consume them and now satan is tossed into the lake of fire where the A/C and the Beast already are from the beginning of the 1000 years: "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:10 KJV)

Bro. Gary! Again my brother, you hit a "nail on the head"!