robin hood

Back to the OP.......To what extent do we take the words in the Bible literally ? The following was mentioned by a friend who was a Jehovah's Witness .........not a big issue........but a problem for her who claimed that Jehovah's Witnesses viewed the Bible to be totally accurate and to be taken literally .....but of course we know they don't . According to Matthew Jesus was given a scarlet robe ......"And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe." According to Mark and John Jesus was given a purple robe...."And they clothed him with purple"......."they put on him a purple robe" . All three can't be true.....so my Jehovah's Witness friend said that the colour looked different because of the sunlight shining on the robe.......one problem......the Bible says nothing about the sun shining on the robe .

And where are you getting this plethora of misinformation from? If it is misinformation please show me what is not factual......I am always ready to learn......that's part of life......we can't all have the answers .

It is good to hear from someone who has first-hand experience of Bernie Sanders in action . I am sure you will concur with me that there is a refreshing aspect to Bernie Sanders......in campaigning he sticks to the issues......he does not engage in the calumny and detraction of other politicians ......which makes him quite unique .

The Book of Jonah.....It is impossible that Nineveh , the ruins of which have been explored , could have been a city of "three days' journey" . A city of 120 000 infants implies a total population of over a million , far too large for Nineveh . Our knowledge of Assyria , both from Assyrian and biblical records , leaves no room for a conversion of Nineveh to the worship of Yahweh . The title "King of Nineveh" never appears in Assyrian or biblical records . It is always "king of Ashur" . The literary type of the book is didactic fiction or parable . This in no way detracts from the truth of the book . It is truth in the form of a parable rather than truth in the form of an historical narrative . In the same way the parable of the Good Samaritan is not truth expressed as an history narrative , rather truth as expressed in didactic fiction .

That makes sense to me .

Let's just put aside our personal beliefs about socialism. Name ONE country where socialism has been a success. I don't know of any country which I could call socialist ......no country has progressed so far I know countries where the predominant economy is capitalist.......and they all inevitably fail .

Absolutely. Indeed, this was to be a preview of Christ "in the heart of the earth" (Hades) for three days and three nights. 38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. (Mt 12:38-41). Did Christ speak of Jonah (Jonas) as a real historical person who went to Nineveh after being in the whale's belly for three days and three nights? Then why do you have any doubts? I don't think Jesus necessarily spoke of Jonah as a real historical person . If the Book of Jonah is written in the form of a parable it makes it no less truthful......just that it's not history . A fictitious narrative , such as the parable of the Good Samaritan , is just as effective a sign as an historical allusion .

True , everything in the Bible is God's truth , but are we to understand it all literally ?

Bernie Sanders is Jewish . That should be no problem . Bernie Sanders is a socialist . That's better than being a capitalist .

An Evangelical Christian gives some of the reasons why he is a supporter of Bernie Sanders...... " I am supporting Bernie Sanders because many of his positions reflect the biblical principles of defending the poor and speaking up for the oppressed. I am hoping to come up with a list that provides examples of this that can then be turned into a series of graphics to share with evangelicals (almost exclusively republicans) and ultimately gain some of their support. There are many young bible believing Christians who are not sold on the republican party. I believe right now is the perfect time to introduce them to a candidate who IMO represents their faith better than any republican candidate. But this must be done in a way that connects the dots for them with a positive tone rather than create more tension and confusion by making comparisons or bashing the party most of their family and networks of relationships are a part of. If there is anyone here that could help me come up with these examples and then work them into concise statements I would greatly appreciate it. If you can come up with direct scripture references that could be great as well. Also I must note that I have zero capabilities in regards to graphic design and will need someone that can help put these together after content is developed. I will start out just by brainstorming some of the things that come to mind and hopefully after getting some feedback and hearing other's thoughts we can develop them further. My goal right now is to come up with 8-10 or so statements/graphics. Examples: -Fair and just treatment of immigrants -Financial protection for the elderly (social security) -Fair and just opportunity for everyone to have access to higher education regardless of income. -Anti trade acts that lead to exploitation of workers overseas. -Fair living wage that would free many from poverty. -Criminal Justice reform that would free those who are unnecessarily incarcerated. -Environmental protections to better steward the earth God created. -Campaign finance reform that would lead to our government representing the many needs of its people rather than an elite few. https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/3c2qcl/reasons_christians_evangelicals_should_support/

For example , do we take the words of the Bible about Jonah literally.......that he was in a whale's belly for three days ?

More than 150,000 people have joined around 36 aid, faith, development and human rights organisations in backing an unprecedented joint call urging world leaders to press the Israeli government to lift the blockade on Gaza and remove the restrictions on basic building materials needed to reconstruct the coastal strip. With the number of people supporting the call increasing by the hour, this has quickly become the largest ever global public push to end the blockade on the Gaza Strip, with international organizations and the public petitioning world leaders to uphold promises made to rebuild Gaza one year ago. On the anniversary of the end of the conflict between the government of Israel and Palestinian armed groups, the organisations are calling for construction materials like wood, steel bars and cement to be allowed into Gaza to end so that hospitals, schools and homes can be urgently rebuilt. Last year's conflict saw over 19,000 homes destroyed, and left 100,000 people homeless. Donor governments have pledged $3.5 billion to rebuild Gaza, but a year on, Israeli restrictions on building materials continue to cause delays. Reconstruction has started on just over 2,000 of the 19,000 homes destroyed last year, and not a single home has been fully rebuilt. Speaking in support of the campaign, Fadi Quran, Senior Campaigner of Avaaz said: "It's outrageous that a year on from the last Gaza war, not one home has been totally rebuilt and the world has left families in the rubble. Governments are allowing Israel to violate the most basic humanitarian laws and since the start of the blockade there have been three wars with hundreds of children killed. This massive public outcry shows people everywhere want their governments to act now to end this illegal, inhumane and dangerous blockade." The campaign launched by the global citizens movement Avaaz and the organisations says: "By placing restrictions on the movement of people and goods, the blockade is punishing innocent civilians for acts for which they bear no responsibility. There can never be a justification for leaving families without a home and the sick without a hospital." Speaking from inside Gaza, Ibrahem El Shatali of Gaza City said: "Many of my friends and family members have been homeless for months now -- how can we live like this, surrounded by rubble with no hope, no future and no prospect of things getting better? All we need are basic building materials and a fresh start." According to research carried out in a recent joint international NGO report, the illegal Israeli blockade has obstructed reconstruction efforts, worsening the humanitarian crisis inside the Gaza Strip: • Only 5% of the urgently needed 6.7 million tons of reconstruction materials needed to repair what was destroyed last summer in Gaza have been allowed in one year since the ceasefire. At this rate, reconstruction could take 17 years. • 559,000 students have been denied a quality education, as 11 schools and universities were totally destroyed and an additional 253 were severely damaged during the war. • 120,000 people still do not have access to the water and sewage network, with slow repairs to the 35,000 meters of pipelines damaged or destroyed. The sewage situation in parts of Gaza is appalling, with overflowing lagoons and untreated waste running through the streets. • 81 hospitals and clinics were damaged or destroyed by the conflict. Despite allocated funds to rebuild some of these facilities, needed construction material has not been allowed in. Tony Laurance, CEO of Medical Aid for Palestinians said: "What Gaza needs more than anything is reconstruction, yet the government of Israel restricts the entry of even the most basic building materials. These severe restrictions prevent the rebuilding of even the most vital infrastructure in Gaza, including hospitals and clinics. People across the globe are now saying 'enough is enough,' and are urging global leaders to push Israel to end the blockade now." The government of Israel holds the primary responsibility to lift the blockade, although agencies signing on to the campaign also recognize that reconstruction is hindered by the failure of Palestinian political parties to reconcile and prioritize reconstruction, and by Egypt's closure of its border with Gaza. The government of Israel justifies the restrictions on security grounds. However, the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have repeatedly asserted that the blockade is a violation of international law. Indeed, there can never be justification for collective punishment of an entire population and leaving tens of thousands of families homeless and hundreds of thousands of children without a school or health centers. William Bell, Christian Aid's Policy and Advocacy Officer for Israel and the Palestinians said: "With sewage spewing onto pavements, electricity and water supplies still severely limited and schools that look more like bomb-sites than places children get an education, hope is dwindling and Gaza's future looks bleak. The blockade has helped to create some of the highest unemployment and aid dependency levels in the world, making the lives of 1.8 million civilians miserable, and needs to end now."

Should we expect Christians to behave like the bible says Christians should? .......of course we should ......it's a strange question to ask . Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27 Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16 Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30 Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44 Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2 Honour your parents—Matthew 15:4 Love your neighbour—Matthew 22:39 Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26- 2 Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19.........and lots more .

In the musical Porgy and Bess we hear the words " The things that you're liable to read in the bible it ain't necessarily so " . While the musical isn't a doctrinal thesis on the Scriptures , it raises a question .......To what extent do we take the words in the Bible literally ?

Well some do hallow the King James version of the Bible......King James I of England .

Understood, but do you recognize the monarch as the defender of YOUR faith, or would you suggest to anyone that the monarchy should be THEIRS? By the way, it was granted by Pope Leo X, who by my recollection was in charge when the Protestant Reformation began. On second thoughts , I have never really thought about it until now. Within the mystery of prayer , finite from the human side but infinite from the divine , perhaps Queen Elizabeth could in some way be a defender of my faith . Who knows for what she prays in her private room ? Does she pray for her subjects according to her Christian faith ? If she does , then she may be a defender of my faith .

Understood, but do you recognize the monarch as the defender of YOUR faith, or would you suggest to anyone that the monarchy should be THEIRS? By the way, it was granted by Pope Leo X, who by my recollection was in charge when the Protestant Reformation began. Not really . But Queen Elizabeth is referred to as " Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith".

"Defender of the Faith" has been one of the subsidiary titles of the English and later British monarchs since it was granted on 11 October, 1521 .

Defender of the Faith? I always thought the Queen of England was the Defender of the Faith ?

The problem with your logic is that the Bible doesn't describe any works that are not contained either directly, or in principle as being unconnected to the law. What people don't understand that is that every moral action you take in life is either a violation of God's law or is done in keeping with God's law. You cannot define "love" apart from God's law because the NT teaches that "Love" is the fulfillment of the law. Jesus said that the entire law of Moses falls under the categories of loving God or loving man. So you cannot walk in genuine love without fulfilling the law of Moses. The fruit of the spirit can be viewed in the context of the first five books of Moses because the fruit of the spirit amounts to being love manifested eight different ways. Every principle of the NT stems from the theological seed-bed that is laid down for us in the first five books of Moses. The NT quotes extensively from the law in order to teach its principles. So this notion that we do good works but not "Law" works creates a false dichotomy about works that the Bible never makes. There is no such thing as "works" in the realm of grace, vs. "works" in the realm of law. The passage here in Matt. 23 is a prophecy about Jesus will judge the nations but is not stating that works is necessary for salvation. The way you know the sheep from the goats is by their works. Their works did is not what made them sheep or goats. Their works revealed what they were. Your works demonstrate your salvation. They don't make you saved, but they reveal if you are saved or not. You have every thing backwards. I'm sorry but you're simply contradicting scripture which tells us Faith without works is dead. 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. 20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. James 2 The word of God. By the way, you cannot be saved if you are not also justified. James is not talking about salvation. James IS talking about salvation . He says : " " For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the g For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, wh The problem with your logic is that the Bible doesn't describe any works that are not contained either directly, or in principle as being unconnected to the law. What people don't understand that is that every moral action you take in life is either a violation of God's law or is done in keeping with God's law. You cannot define "love" apart from God's law because the NT teaches that "Love" is the fulfillment of the law. Jesus said that the entire law of Moses falls under the categories of loving God or loving man. So you cannot walk in genuine love without fulfilling the law of Moses. The fruit of the spirit can be viewed in the context of the first five books of Moses because the fruit of the spirit amounts to being love manifested eight different ways. Every principle of the NT stems from the theological seed-bed that is laid down for us in the first five books of Moses. The NT quotes extensively from the law in order to teach its principles. So this notion that we do good works but not "Law" works creates a false dichotomy about works that the Bible never makes. There is no such thing as "works" in the realm of grace, vs. "works" in the realm of law. The passage here in Matt. 23 is a prophecy about Jesus will judge the nations but is not stating that works is necessary for salvation. The way you know the sheep from the goats is by their works. Their works did is not what made them sheep or goats. Their works revealed what they were. Your works demonstrate your salvation. They don't make you saved, but they reveal if you are saved or not. You have every thing backwards. I'm sorry but you're simply contradicting scripture which tells us Faith without works is dead. 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. 20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. James 2 By the way, you cannot be saved if you are not also justified. James is not talking about salvation. James IS talking about salvation . He says : " What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? " He

Works within the realm of grace , not works according to the old law , must have a part in our entry into the Father's Kingdom otherwise what Jesus says must be wrong . He teaches that our reception of eternal life is dependent on the good works we do , good works within the realm of grace , not good works according to the old law . “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

You have hit the nail on the head with those words . We are TOTALLY dependent upon grace . Any good works we do are through the Holy Spirit working within us . So when some say they are not happy with being saved by faith alone because there is lots in the Bible about doing good works , they are also saying , or should be saying , that the good works in the realm of grace which shows their faith to be alive are in reality the works of God working within them . It's all about grace . The faith we have which leads to our salvation , and the good works we do in the realm of grace as part of the living out of our salvation .....these are all through grace .

St. Paul wrote : " God will render to every man according to his works. To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life . " Is this not saying that eternal life , in the order of grace , not in the order of the Law , is dependent on good works ?

Jesus says : "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven." Is this "DOING the will of the Father" not a work ?

Is our faith not a "work" ? Is our co-operation with the grace of God on whom we are totally dependent not a "work" ?