Marcus O'Reillius

Of course Daniel was a prophet, and one highly esteemed by our Lord. But the Jews did not accept him as a prophet, so they probably weren't looking for fulfillment of the one 'seven' with the First Jewish Revolt. Nor did that complete the one 'seven' - that is ghtan's point.

Thank-you Roy. If you have a specific question as to the ordering, I do not claim to be infallible, and I welcome such inquiries. Revelation chapters 13-16 (inclusive) Now let's look at the parallel account with Revelation of chapters 13-16 inclusive, which I call the Rise and Fall of the anti-Christ. I think the whole of the one 'seven' is detailed here to give us some added information which is missing from other accounts, mainly the seventh Trumpet, but also about the 144,000 and about the nature of the Day of the Lord and some things peculiar to the sixth Seal which lead to much confusion about the Wrath of God first mentioned in writing in Revelation chapter 6. In outline form from the four chapters of Revelation 13 through 16 here are the “events:” The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea” Worship of the beast (rebellion against God) Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven' He wages war against the Saints We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15) Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky' Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ: the midpoint abomination Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever for the Church in terms of persecution 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked Son of Man coming on the clouds Harvest from the clouds Avenging Angels - Blood and Fire First Bowl - Sores on Man Second Bowl - All sea to blood Third Bowl - All water to blood Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon N/S/E Seventh Bowl - Earth changing earthquake Working backwards at first, in sequencing this account to the previous compilation, the Bowl Judgments come last - it says so in the Harvest account in chapter 15. Previously the seventh Trumpet announcement was broken off in the previous Seal/Scroll chronology in Revelation chapter 10 when John is told not to write and only later summed up with no details of the desolations it ensues being revealed whatsoever. So now God shows to John what he didn't write about in the Seal/Scroll chronology: the desolations of the third Woe. They are all of the first "thirds" Trumpet Judgments but now - they're total. The depth of God’s Wrath is displayed in the third Woe. Notice that the end comes with an earth-changing Great earthquake. This marries what chapter 11 had at its end and in addition, what concludes the sidebar account of Revelation 11:1-13. There are parallel accounts within the book of Revelation because there is so much action taking place, and one of the clues that these take place is repeated events. This is also the reason the book of Revelation is so hard to read when read like a novel; the action seems to go back and forth. So the easiest sequencing of all is to preserve the finality of the Bowl Judgments. They complete the third Woe of the seventh Trumpet. The Bowl Judgments can be viewed as the revealed third Woe; they follow the seventh Trumpet. Seventh Trumpet First Bowl - Sores on Man Second Bowl - All sea to blood Third Bowl - All water to blood Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon N/S/E Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss. Seventh Bowl Starting at the beginning of Revelation chapters 13 through 16 now, the beast of a nation rises before the beast of a man is given authority to rule for 42 months doing pretty much as he pleases without interference. This comes before the midpoint abomination now revealed as the erection of the talking image of the same anti-Christ by the false prophet who is introduced as being the source for “fire falling from the sky” which could be an apt description of a nuclear bomb explosion. That seminal event worthy of mention happens during the first half of the one ‘seven’ and before the midpoint abomination as well. The first four main bullet points precede the midpoint abomination and are put first. They explain the source for the midpoint abomination and the Great Tribulation and are a match. Next, in response to the events of the antagonists, in Revelation chapters 14, the 144,000 are mustered before the Harvest. The assumption provided in the Seal/Scroll account combined with the Olivet Discourse is validated by the order given here. This is often the case; one account will allow alternate interpretations. Only when referenced against another account, whether multiple or parallel, is an additional fact provided which clears up the ambiguity. In the sixth Seal, John only hears the number, here we see them and we are given additional information about the 144,000. One, the Lord is standing on Mount Zion. Two, the 144,000 are assembled on Mount Zion. Three, they never leave Jesus' side, so wherever Jesus goes, so goes His Army. These are crack troops, and they help tramp out the Wrath of God as portrayed in Joel on the Day of the Lord. (Jesus' Bride is safe at home in Heaven with the Father as all good Grooms would love and protect their Bride.) The Pre-Trib and Post-Trib schools of eschatology insist that Jesus never touches down on the earth prior to gathering the Elect from the clouds. That reading from First and Second Thessalonians takes the vision of Christ coming on the clouds as a singular event. However, Paul can omit an event and not violate the overall sequence of events. Jesus’ return was foretold at His Ascension and in Acts 1:11, we are told that He will return as He went up. Therefore, I expect Jesus will part the night sky with the scrolling of the sky to reveal the light of Heaven, and descending upon the clouds, will touch down on the Mount of Olives, splitting it in two as described in Zechariah 14:4. This causes the second earthquake of the sixth Seal (v.14) and the twin hills are the Mount Zion of Revelation chapter 14. The 3 Angels come before the end, just like Jesus said in Mt 24:14; the Church cannot fulfill the Great Commission. Also too, their warning to the wicked that God is coming in Wrath has them hiding in the caves in the sixth Seal before Jesus actually comes to Harvest the Elect. This explains the first writing of “wrath” in the book of Revelation at 6:16 and why the wicked, who have no discernment of God’s Plan, so plainly know it is coming nevertheless: they’re told explicitly and they got the message. The imagery of “one like the son of man” is the third time Jesus is depicted on the clouds of Heaven gathering the Elect in the Bible. First foretold in the Olivet Discourse, (and the second time some years later is included in Paul’s very first letter to the Churches: 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17) this third mention by John matches previous two bullet points showing Jesus coming on the clouds and gathering the Elect. Both accounts intersect and will be combined on this common event. The final portion of chapter 14 has two avenging Angels. The first supplies the Blood present on the Day of the Lord Wrath. The second has charge of the fire. Fire is another component of Old Testament Day of the Lord Wrath and it is the first element of God’s Wrath from the Trumpets. As this Wrath is to only burn a “third” of the Earth, it is “managed.” The Angel supplying Blood literally fills the Land around the “City.” Knowing there are two battles said to be fought on the Day of the Lord in the Old Testament, one around Jerusalem and the other in the Valley of Decision, which scholars link to the Valley of Jehoshaphat around Bethlehem to the south, the city would then translate to Jerusalem, and the Land would be Israel. As blood both defiles and redeems, (a paradox preserved in the dual meaning for a single verb in the Hebrew) God is literally wreaking desolation and in turn, washing the Holy Land of the sin that had been present. The aspect having Redemption being immediately followed by Wrath in a reading of Revelation chapter 14 follows the example in the broad overview of the end in the previous Seal/Scroll chronology of chapters 4-11. There, the first Trumpet of God’s Wrath follows within an hour of the Great Multitude arriving in Heaven. This aspect of Rescue/Wrath which emerges in both accounts marries as well with the descriptive verse of this time from Jesus in the Olivet Discourse with the example of Noah and Lot who were both rescued and then immediately God’s Wrath rained down. This distinction marks this eschatology as what is commonly called: Pre-Wrath. The aspect of Rescue/Wrath both fall on the Day of the Lord. So, I'm going to indent those events which I think occur with the Day of the Lord starting with the Sun/moon/star event and call the whole series the "Day of the Lord." The two-fold nature of this day can be seen in prophecy with one of foreboding and clouds, while the other half is full of fire, smoke and blood. Those visions can be played out in literally two days just like Rosh ha-Shanah is a two-day Holy Day. Rosh ha-Shanah starts with the Last Trumpet, and begins a Festival of Trumpets. That figurative analogy is seen here literally. So with that bit of logic, let's put the two sequences together around the common points: The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea.” Worship of the beast (rebellion against God) Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come. Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven.' He wages war against the Saints. We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15) Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky.' Armies surround Jerusalem. Midpoint Abomination Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever for the Church in terms of persecution. Great Tribulation. Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD. Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man Jesus touches down upon the earth. Mustering the 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion. 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked Son of Man coming on the clouds. Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the clouds. Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation. Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal. First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire. Second Trumpet - 1/3rd of sea to blood Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment. Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rd of man killed Seventh Trumpet First Bowl - Sores on Man Second Bowl - All sea to blood Third Bowl - All water to blood Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon N/S/E Seventh Bowl – end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator Earth changing earthquake. Notice that every sequence order from each original list remains intact! No shuffling of facts is required. While students of other eschatologies might balk at how I define meaning for various words (confirm, midpoint abomination, Elect, etc.) deep interpretation is not required to blend Scripture –as it is worded– into this sequence of events. The fact that each individual account’s sequence remains intact, then verifies the correct ordering of the whole.

And again, asked and answered many times before on other boards between you and I. Now if you would like to take this issue of yours to another thread and not derail mine, I would appreciate it. I am not going to adopt your understanding as my understanding any more than I am going to embrace a pyramid structure for the New Jerusalem as your avatar shows, and again, as we have previously discussed in the past on other eschatological message boards. As I stated at the beginning: the foundation of my eschatological viewpoint is literal in nature and futuristic in application. I wholly reject any Preterist notion for Daniel 9:27 and A.D. 70 as fulfilling either that or the aspects of prophecy Jesus gives us for the Olivet Discourse. I would ask that any basic disagreement with my viewpoint be discussed elsewhere on a separate thread. I do not want to get tied up in re-working fundamental premises and viewpoints. IF you, the reader, (and not just Roy) have some specific question or constructive criticism about some aspect of my analysis, I would love to hear it; but that assumes a basic acceptance of a futuristic, literal, Pre-Millennial viewpoint as a common basis for any discussion.

Your word comparison is not valid. Rev 6 does not say they hide in fear; you're imputing that motive to them. It is not a FEAR does not equal MOURN equation at all. As WilliamL states, they have not only rejected Jesus, but are aligned with the anti-Christ in hating the God of Israel and Jesus. And when not only an Angel, but three Angels, proclaim His Coming Wrath - of course they go into hiding, not wanting to be humbled at all. NONE of the wicked repent through all of God's Wrath until the very end - and then, and only then, do the surviving remnant Jews give thanks to God! At some point, yes, because the entire portion of the gathering of the Elect is omitted from this particular passage of prophecy. Every eye will see - Rev 1:7. Conjecture: all I am equating the Scrolling of the Sky is to the Sign of the Son of Man. That Jesus comes down as He went up - Acts 1:11 - is the predicate basis for what this Scrolling will be like. I do, as you, postulate that the Scrolling of the Sky represents a dimensional rift between Heaven and Earth. That it brings Light to the darkness is yet another miraculous reversal of normality in the Day of the Lord, opposite the darkening of the sun at noon - Amos 8:9 - where it comes from and how is pure conjecture on my part as well. God rarely tells us how He will accomplish His Works.

Simple: the same way that got up on top but in reverse. And this is a complex issue? And my sequence-of-events analysis, as a new paradigm in exegesis, is too simplistic for you? Perhaps it is more to your liking to change the cube aspects of the New Jerusalem which mirror the Most Holy Place to a pyramid... Now, as you and I have gone around on this more than once, if you don't have anything on point to say in the manner of constructive criticism, could you take your minor points about the nature of the abomination, A.D. 70, and your tree bark examination of language to another thread so as to not derail this attempt to display my work on the broad outline of the end-times I have assembled which attempts to see the forest for the trees?

Revelation 4-11 (exclusive) The first real match of a specific and unique event we have is with the sixth Seal, so I'm going to pick up the action there in the Seal/Scroll chronology of chapters 4 through 11 (minus the sidebar account of the Temple and the Two Witnesses found in 11:1-13) and take it to the end. Rather than replicate whole chapters starting with the sixth Seal, only an outline form of events will be presented. This is to simplify the action and concentrate on the big items first; details are important for further integration, but first the rough framework needs to be in place. Rev 6:12-13 - Sun/moon/star sign Rev 6:14 - Scrolling of the sky Rev 7:4-8 - “Mustering” the 144,000 Rev 7:9-17 - Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation Rev 8:1 - Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal Rev 8:7 - First Trumpet fire and blood 1/3 of earth burned Rev 8:8 - Second Trumpet 1/3 of sea to blood Rev 8:10 - Third Trumpet 1/3 of water bitter Rev 8:12 - Fourth Trumpet 1/3 of light struck Rev 9:1-11 - Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment Rev 9:13-21 - Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3 of man killed Rev 10:1-4/Rev 11:15 - Seventh Trumpet (no desolation mentioned) Rev 11:19 - Earthquake There is an obvious match with the Sun/moon/star sign which Jesus gave us in the Olivet Discourse. The fact that Jesus gives us both the midpoint abomination and the Day of the Lord's prerequisite sun/moon/star event in order, makes the Olivet Discourse as the keystone passage allowing the linkage of the seven Seals in Revelation to the one ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:27. After, the midpoint abomination of Daniel 9:27 is this celestial sign which precedes the Day of the Lord. Because the Great Tribulation is shortened, as one would dock an animal’s tail, suggests its length as being shorter than either three and a half years and a half, or even coming over a year and a half later in the sixth year of the one ‘seven’. The latter point is because most commentators link the Seals to the one ‘seven’ on a one-to-one basis. However, linking the Seals one-to-one to the one ‘seven’ is an assumption of number coincidence. As the Seal/Scroll chronology represents the opening broad overview, the first four Seals, as Spirits at work in the world (Zec 6:5), can be seen as already preparing the world for the rapid changes which come about in the one ‘seven’. As such, a longer stretch of time for this opening introduction to the end-times would preclude any 1:1, Seal-to-prophetic year parallel as being applicable. Furthermore, in reasoning, the one ‘seven’ is on display in the following detailed view of the end; so replication in whole would be redundant. The Seal/Scroll chronology sets the stage for ordering more detailed, parallel events narratives which can be interpreted within its basic chronology. I am going to link the scrolling of the sky to the sign of the Son of Man. The only other prophetic bit which marries Rev 6:14 is Isaiah 34:4. Indeed, while it can be said to be the source for John’s writing by some, it comes from a passage referencing the Day of the Lord’s vengeance – which can be referred back to Isaiah 61:2 with Jesus’ Second Advent. The scrolling of the sky also completes a series of opposites in the Day of the Lord, or as Zechariah 14:7 states: “in the evening, it will be light.” Sequencing the 144,000 as mustering is in reference to another passage in Isaiah 13:3/5. Here, it comes before the arrival of the Elect's gathering verified by an Elder as being out of the Great Tribulation. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus said that the Great Tribulation came right before the sign of the Day of the Lord: the sun/moon/star event. So, the sixth Seal sun/moon/star event comes after the Great Tribulation. That Gathering of the Elect could come before or after the 144,000, but it certainly comes before their arrival as the Great Multitude (owing to the fact that the Dead in Christ could number in the billions). Putting the 144,000's Mustering first before the Gathering of the Elect would seem to be an assumption at this point; but another account will prove that sequence order to be correct. First, aligning the two lists around shared the sun/moon/star event means most of Revelation chapters 6-11 happen afterward (in the latter part of the sequence of events compiled so far). Secondly, the 144,000 are interjected between Jesus’ arrival and the gathering of the Elect. Finally, the gathering of the Elect results in their being delivered to the “barn” of Heaven reveals this sequence of events: Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come Armies surround Jerusalem Midpoint Abomination Great Tribulation Sun/moon/star event Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man Mustering the 144,000 The Son of Man coming on the clouds Redemption / Gathering Elect from the clouds Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned Second Trumpet - 1/3rd of sea to blood Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rd of man killed Seventh Trumpet - end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator Earthquake

It does not say that at all. Mt 24:17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18 Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. (NASB) You don't tarry at all! Leave immediately! Do not double back! Don't check to see if you left the iron on... or the stove! Really now...

Read Ezekiel 1:2 - he was already a Priest in Israel, something Daniel was not. Again, the Jews do not count Daniel as a prophet at all. Ezekiel is a major prophet by them.

Ezekiel was not in exile and don't bother me with delusions of "truth".

Daniel 9:27 Another major, prophetic, linear narrative which should be foundational for anyone's eschatology is Daniel 9:26-27. Looking only at the second verse for the moment is the one ‘seven’ which has yet to be fulfilled (despite some eschatological schools’ opinions to the contrary). 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." The word “confirm” comes to us from the King James, and translators for 400 years have stuck with an obsolete meaning; “confirm” has too much positive connotation to accurately portray how the Hebrew word, “gabar” is being used. While as a verb, gabar simply means “to prevail,” but as stated, “forced” best fits the action. The inflected verb is in the third person so it includes a pronoun and that reverts, according to Hebrew grammar, to the last person mentioned: in this case, the “ruler who will come.” Likewise, in the second sentence up to the prepositional phrase “…until the end…” the original Hebrew is extremely difficult reading literally: “on wing – abominations – desolation.” The reader should understand that all the other words (thirteen in this case versus four in the Hebrew) are added in translation. This difficult passage reminds me of another passage in Daniel where God writes: “MENE, MENE, TEKEL, PARSIN.” These simple words were undecipherable by the wisest of Belshazzar’s advisers. Widely accepted as “abomination of desolation,” the word “kanap,” “wing,” has led to various interpretations. The NIV here concludes it is in the Temple, but that blends the Olivet Discourse’s reference to the Holy Place with Paul’s 2nd Thessalonians’ chapter 2. In an earlier edition, the NIV stated the abomination was placed in a “wing” of the Temple, but the Temple doesn’t have “wings” like the White House. Both editions of the NIV lose the meaning of “wing.” The King James uses the word figuratively, which is allowed in the picture language of Hebrew: “overshadowing.” “Wings” have multiple figurative meanings, like “power” as well. I prefer yet another figurative use for wing which matches another Daniel account about what I think is the same timeframe in Daniel 11:45-12:1 where the King of the North rushes out like a flood, i.e.: “quickly.” Blending in Daniel 11:45, which matches Luke 21:20 for a moment, the King of the North encamps around Jerusalem with his army. This means that during a time of “peace,” he has invaded the Holy Land. Rather than an overshadowing of abominations, this midpoint development happens rapidly when overwhelming force literally floods the land and brings the ruler who will come to the apex of his meteoric rise: being crowned as a god in the Temple and presented with a talking image of himself. The breakdown of Daniel 9:27 then centers around three actions covered within it: Covenant with many prevailed by the (Roman) ruler who will come. Midpoint Abomination End of one ‘seven’ with desolations poured out on the desolator. Now, between the Olivet Discourse and Daniel, the easy match, provided by Jesus and referencing Daniel, is the midpoint abomination. Since the Great Tribulation is shortened, (literally, amputated in the Greek as in to “dock” an animal’s tail) it's fairly easy to see that the Sun/moon/star event comes well before the end, since lengthening the Great Tribulation to the rest of the one ‘seven’ begs the question as to how Christians could live without substance while being literally hunted down; and so, I'll sequence it that way. Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come. Midpoint Abomination Great Tribulation Sun/moon/star event. Sign of the Son of Man The Son of Man coming on the clouds Gathering Elect from the clouds End of one seven with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator. Let's include Luke's take in chapter 21. He has a slightly different sequence: Armies surround Jerusalem Great Tribulation Signs in the Sun, moon, and stars Stand up: Redemption Between the middle two events, we have some different descriptions. As the anti-Christ has to arrive at Jerusalem before being presented with the talking image of himself in the Temple, the armies surrounding Jerusalem is on the eve of the midpoint abomination. This would align the Ezekiel invasion of Israel to this movement of troops, i.e., the anti-Christ is the one who breaks the peace treaty he forced upon Israel. By dismantling her defenses (because she used a nuke?) he was finally able to conquer this thorn in his side... The “stand up” / Redemption is the Gathering of the Elect. So putting the lists together brings: Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come Armies surround Jerusalem Midpoint Abomination Great Tribulation Sun/moon/star event Sign of the Son of Man The Son of Man coming on the clouds Redemption / Gathering Elect from the clouds End of one seven with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator Now to work up to Revelations' parallel accounts.

Ah, no. They don't regard him as a prophet because he was not in the land of Israel when he wrote down his visions and visitations. And I'm not going to entertain any Preterist notion of A.D. 70 being such a cataclysmic event that it makes the highlight reel of the seventy 'sevens'. The only point about having the destruction of the city and the sanctuary in what Gabriel said, was to point to the source of the person who is the central actor in the one 'seven', the often-referred to anti-Christ, who plays such a pivotal role in bringing about the end-times.

The days of the Great Tribulation. How long could you last without being able to buy food while all the while they're hunting you down? The second half of the one 'seven' runs its full course. Most of it contains the Wrath of God, which, according to Revelation 14:17-20, comes right after the Harvest of Rev 14:14-16; and to which the Harvest marries with Mt 24:30-31. The Wrath of God is omitted from the Olivet Discourse; that does not mean it isn't there. Perhaps Jesus excludes it because it does not pertain to us.

Zechriah 13:7 is not linearly attached to 13:1-6. It is a poetic prophecy by itself. The end of which, in verse 9 is in my opinion, connected to the start of verse 1. Most Old Testament prophets did not have long, linear narratives, but bits and snatches, like Zechariah does with his pronouncements: "In that day..." "In that day..." does not mean everything which happens 'in that day' happens on the same day. It is more of a declaration, an idiom of speech, that 'this will happen' - rather than specify a specific day. Zechariah has a higher percentage of end-time prophecies than any other prophet recognized by the Jews that I know. (Daniel is not recognized by the Jews as a prophet - his book is relegated to poetry in the Tanach.) Zechariah has many valuable insights - which I use - but I cannot use his book as a fundamental structure with which to build an inherent eschatology because he skips back and forth so much.

This first breakdown of the Olivet Discourse, which is my keystone passage for eschatology, demonstrates the manner in which I distill the Word into basic, action components which describe events. This BIG to small approach is how I was trained to find point targets in a limited time in a high-speed environment. The events are the big points. It is important in building a structure to first focus on the basic support system, The foundation for my eschatology is a literal approach. Then, the big events act as pillars and beams which support the roof. After that, then floors, walls, and ceilings can be installed; accompanying New and Old Testament prophecies will fit in place. Finally, we have all the fine details that make a building a home, such as furniture, pictures, and what not - the descriptive details we first leave out. When I can find a specific and unique event, like the Midpoint abomination - then I can weld one linear narrative to another around that common point. That I will do next, after I get some painting in, and give time to folk to digest what I'm starting here.

The Olivet Discourse The keystone for the Sequence of Events is Jesus’ prophetic Olivet Discourse. This passage is the fifth major discourse of the book of Matthew as it is constructed. This discourse also follows parallel construction with a broad overview beginning with Jesus’ answer to the disciple’s question at Mt 24:4 leading to the “end” at verse 14. A detailed parallel account follows which gets to the same “end,” namely the gathering of the Elect. The detailed parallel portion of the Olivet Discourse, covering the final end of the Church Age, reveals five specific and unique events which are the bridge between the one ‘seven’ of the book of Daniel and the chronology of the Seals/Trumpets in the book of Revelation. Mt 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 "If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' 30 "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (NIV) Analysis from a sequence of events point of view: v. 15 – abomination (of) desolation standing in the Holy Place. v. 16 – prayer for those in Judea (future Remnant) v. 17 – warning to those in Judea v. 18 – warning to those in Judea v. 19 – descriptive v. 20 – warning prayer for those in Judea v. 21 – “unequaled” great tribulation v. 22 – it is shortened for the sake of the Elect v. 23 – warning to the Elect v. 24 – warning to the Elect v. 25 – declaration of prophetic truth v. 26 – warning to the Elect v. 27 – description of Jesus’ parousia (Greek for “coming”) v. 28 – cryptic message (dealing with the nature of the Rapture) v. 29 – immediately after great tribulation – (sequencing) – sun/moon/star event v. 30 – sign of Son of Man – Son of Man coming on the clouds v. 31 – gathering of the Elect from the earth. Dealing only with events; descriptive verses, simple declarations, various warnings and prayers are dropped. This distills the passage down to the actions which will happen. Taking just the simplest elements does not eliminate some of the other aspects… it’s just that they are not germane to the main plot in constructing the basic framework for a singular chronology. However, some important elements can later be woven into the sequence of events to cover some of the side issues which are present in the end-times, like concerning “those in Judea.” The order of events as Jesus listed the main ones are: v. 15 Midpoint Abomination, which adds: standing in the “Holy Place” v. 21 Great Tribulation, which is shortened by the: v. 29 Sun/moon/star event, which heralds the Day of the Lord v. 30 Sign of the Son of Man v. 30 The Son of Man coming on the clouds v. 31 Gathering Elect from the clouds This linear narrative has five, important, specific and unique events in their proscribed order with the added benefit of having joining time stamps in two of them. This passage is the Keystone Passage for the Sequence of Events because it allows the harmonization of Daniel’s one ‘seven’ to the broad overview of the end-times in Revelation with the Seal/Scroll chronology. The aspects of those in Judea fleeing, the bit of cryptic information about carcasses, and even the sign of the Son of Man are important and have a place in the final analysis, however, for simplicity’s sake this list boils down the Olivet Discourse’s detailed portion to its essential elements which are not only specific and unique, but are repeated in the Bible in other linear narratives. This makes the Olivet Discourse the Keystone Passage because it has five crucial, specific and unique events culminating in the Rapture of the Church – which is everyone’s key interest. What is interesting is that Jesus adds crucial information as well about the midpoint abomination which marries with another linear narrative in Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians. Because of the details in each; there is a perfect match. Likewise, Jesus gives two important time elements: first the Great Tribulation is shortened, and immediately after it comes the sun/moon/star event.

1. That would violate the linearity of the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4-11 (exclusive of 11:1-13). 2. Why are they mourning? If you read a parallel account to the broad overview of the Seal/Scroll chronology, where the sixth Seal's sun/moon/star event lines up so well with Mt 24:29 - in the detailed account of just the one 'seven' with the Rise and the Fall of the anti-Christ in Revelation chapters 13-16 (inclusive) - then, in chapter 14, preceding the Harvest, three Angels warn the earth that Jesus is coming. The first completes Mt 24:14 and the other two tell the wicked what's in store for them. So of course they're not exactly excited to see Him come - it's why they're hiding and expecting His Wrath to fall next in Revelation 6:17 -- -- But that's not exactly the NEXT thing that is going to happen! The Rapture is. This is consistent with putting Mt 24:30 and then Mt 24:31 in order together - and buttressed as well as by linking the two events together as Paul does in 2Th 2:1 -- However, in Revelation 14:17-20 - following the Harvest - IS God's Wrath in the form of the FIRST Trumpet.

Very good Last Daze! Marilyn: I'll start on it shortly. It's 38 or 39 pages, it'll take a dozen or so posts putting out one section at a time.

Americans want to get to the point. This opening chapter should satisfy that. “How does it all play out?” you might ask; this will lay out the whole book in a few pages. The technique here was developed over time; it is a new paradigm in eschatology. The work presented here is substantiated with the rest of the book for a more in-depth study. When we’re looking at diverse linear narratives about the end-times, it’s like a mosaic with individual pictures shuffled around the canvas. By picking specific and unique events, multiple and parallel accounts can be lined up and an overall sequence-of-events can be discerned. It’s a little like this puzzle: In the local beauty contest, all contestants received prizes based on their standing. Jane was not first. Alice came up immediately behind Betty. Carol scored higher than Alice but not Tiffany. Sally lost to Betty but not Jane. No one tied in scoring. Can you discern the correct order the girls ended up? (Answer coming up in an reply.) The problem here is that we have a lot of disjointed information. Each sentence holds only a partial bit of information and not all of it is essential to solve the puzzle. Each sentence acts like an end-time narrative account in that it conveys information, but is not complete; individual sentences omit needed information – they skip key facts we would like to have. The only way to arrive at the correct order is to sift through the whole and piece them together. The Sequence-of-Events Analysis operates in this manner. To assemble a Sequence-of-Events, major linear narratives are assembled in bullet point form, distilling descriptive language to get to the heart of the action: events. Descriptive verses are not unimportant; they fill in necessary voids in understanding. However, they concentrate on detail too much, so that the big picture gets lost. Centering on the action, or events, gives a big picture perspective and end-time prophecy can be assembled as a whole in outline form. Once the overall framework is in place, columns and beams to use and architectural analogy, walls and floors can be filled in, and then such details which distinguish one room from another more naturally find their mark. This aspect of going from big-to-small is how I was trained to rapidly find a deep interdiction target behind enemy lines as a fighter-pilot in the 1980’s. “Popping up,” from our low-altitude ingress, we’d only have 3-5 seconds to acquire and target a building or infrastructure we’d never seen before except through intelligence photos. Knowing the color of the building was not important; knowing its placement in regard to larger geological features was vital to acquiring the correct target. The Bible is written largely as a series of linear narratives; this is the beauty of Hebrew: it is a wonderful language in which to tell a story with its word pictures and double entendre. In the Bible, especially its historical books, events are laid out in linear fashion. Much of prophecy does not share that aspect; Isaiah and Zechariah are two books which present prophecy in a Kaleidoscope fashion. However, there are books and passages in prophecy which do conform to linearity of narrative. These make up the main portion which forms the framework for the Sequence of Events. End-time prophetic books and passages which are set as a linear narrative are as follows: The book of Revelation, which itself is a series of parallel accounts The book of Daniel with its various individual visions The Olivet Discourse in the Synoptic Gospel accounts Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians. This preview will not be able to fully develop all the tools being used in the book; that follows in painstaking detail. Various aspects tools of interpretation such as linearity, specific and unique events, multiple accounts, parallel accounts, gaps, dual focus will be glossed over in this opening section. In addition, some word study, while done in the rest of the book will be largely omitted in this brief synopsis.

I agree that there is a lot of confusion inherent in how people commonly refer to the one 'seven' as the "Tribulation Period." As if it is somehow to be avoided... One reason is the nature of 'tribulation' - we all experience it to one degree or another, and there have been times of intense tribulation experienced by those who follow Christ Jesus. Even today, when Christianity is under attack around the world, even here - you can say we are experiencing 'tribulation.' And for those who are dying, from their perspective, how could we argue otherwise? By telling them that as a percentage of world population, the terrible effect of war was felt far greater, and more people died (percentage-wise) during the years of conquest of Attila the Hun? That hardly makes you feel better when you watch the North Koreans line up your pastor, elders, deacons and faithful on a road and crush them with a steam roller right in front of everyone left, man, woman, and children; in that town. But as a defined term - there is one time Jesus defines tribulation as being both specific and unique: because it is the worst ever - and never outdone. This is the Great Tribulation as defined in the Olivet Discourse: His fifth Discourse to the Disciples and as such, applicable to the Church. Mt 24:15 "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand), ... 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. The important point here is that Jesus sets in verse 15, the starting point of the Great Tribulation. Setting aside what is directed in specific instructions to those who live in Judea; Jesus sets the order as happening next is Great Tribulation. This is specific and unique because it is greater than the sacking of Jerusalem by Titus, worse than the onslaught of Attila the Hun, far greater an egregious time of death than Hitler's Holocaust, and worse than any other time of persecution since the beginning of the world - and it will not be repeated. This only starts with the midpoint abomination of Daniel 9:27 which is further revealed in Revelation 13:14-15. And on the heels of that abominable talking idol of the anti-Christ, who is written so much about in prophecy so we will recognize him when he comes - are two laws which we are told not to obey: 1. Worship or die 2. Take the Mark of the Beast or don't buy or sell. This sets up a time when only those who don't follow those rules suffer. The only ones who would be foolish enough to do so will be utter fools - OR - those who obey God's Commands to us! The Elect will suffer death by execution and death by dehydration and starvation. IF God the Father did not intervene - NO LIFE - and that is no life that is applicable because ONLY the Elect are being truly targeted - would survive (as Satan has been frustrated by not capturing all the Jews - those in Judea who do escape, escape him as well with God's help -- and so he turns his unwanted attention to us - Rev 12:17). 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. The Greek verb for cut short is an agricultural term for docking an animals tail to a short nub. - How long could you go without food and water? Seven days. - How long could you go without food? Six weeks. - Now how long could you go without food and water while they're hunting you down? Some will be able to hold out... to bunker down; to wait it out, patiently, with much pain as they watch fellow believers fall by the wayside either by succumbing to a vain attempt to save their own life, or paying the ultimate price - dying in one form or fashion for their faith! This is an unjust death - but one that is called for if we want to experience life ever after with God in Heaven. Now skipping verses 23-28 which have specific instructions to the Church - Jesus again takes up the linear narrative of the end-times in verse 29. "But immediately after the tribulation of those days..." This refers back to the time when the Elect are dying in droves - and not all of us will die! This is referring back to the very time period Jesus said was unequaled in time. The event which follows marks the end of the Great Tribulation: the sun/moon.star event which heralds the long-awaited Day of the Lord. (1) the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (2) 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. (3) 31 And He will send forth His angels with A great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. The sun/moon/star event will put the world on notice. Several things happen here as revealed in the sixth Seal and OT prophecy for the Day of the Lord: 1. And earthquake to shake things up. 2. An unnatural darkening of the sun at noon - the contrast will be most striking. 3. Three Angels will proclaim the Gospel and proclaim the wicked's judgment for their wickedness. (The wicked hide fearing for their lives.) 4. At night, the moon will not give its natural light but will be reddish. 5. When Jesus comes, He will be preceded by a cosmic fireworks show: a meteor shower. 6. In the evening - it will be light: the scrolling of the sky - the sign of the Son of Man. 7. Jesus arrives as He left and settles on the Mount of Olives, splitting it in two and displacing every geological point on the face of the earth likewise. After Jesus comes, several more things happen on the second half of the Day of the Lord: 1. The 144,000 are mustered from all over the earth to the newly formed Mount Zion. 2. As they are being prepared, Jesus leaves that locale and goes to the spiritual realm of Paradise and resurrects the Dead in Christ. 3. Now with His Saints, a great multitude of believers from days gone by, He makes His Victory Lap gathering the Elect who remain and are still alive east to west around the globe. 4. With this Harvest of Saints, He delivers them to the Father in Heaven. 5. What follows is His return to Mount Zion, and with the newly sealed 144,000 - the time of Jacob's Trouble begins and Israel will be cleansed and set up as a rock upon which to ultimately smash the nations. 6. This is matched with the first Trumpet of God's Wrath. 7. Following the carnage, Jesus returns to Heaven as portrayed in Isaiah 63:1-6. The Great Tribulation is a specific and unique, short period of time - coming after the midpoint of the one 'seven' and ending soon afterward - whenever the "Unknown Day of the Lord" is kicked off with its heralding celestial signs. I can walk anyone through the Scriptural references for what I have presented. I feel confident that my analysis is, for the most part as I can tell: correct. I am unaware of any errors within it, but that does not mean I am not mistaken. I am enthused however, that everything that is written is held intact with this viewpoint because I have melded together the major linear narratives and kept them intact - their order is not violated by blending them together in a sequence of events analysis around specific and unique events. And my research, solving this giant mensa puzzle, as led to be a Pre-Wrath adherent. I welcome honest, and specific constructive criticism. I require other like minds to sharpen mine. Thank-you for allowing me to present this discourse.

There are not two Raptures. The Elect is synonymous with the Church. After the Rapture, nearly everyone is wicked, and none believe save the Two Witnesses and any other who must be martyred in order to live eternally. The only people who have a chance at Heaven, are the Remnant Jews and other survivors who actually make it through the whole of God's Wrath to crawl out on the other end and, now thoroughly humbled, come to believe in the God of Israel.

You quote it, but then you bypass what it says. The Great Tribulation starts with the midpoint abomination. That is part of the sequence of events Jesus lays out in Mt 24:15-31. This midpoint abomination refers to Daniel 9:27 and the terrible nature of the abomination(s) is revealed in Rev 13:14-15 as a talking image of the very anti-Christ Daniel wrote so much about. The Great Tribulation is because of two laws which go into effect with the placement of the talking idol in the Temple which dictate that: 1. Worship or die - and, 2. Take the Mark of the Beast or you can't buy anything (food, water, shelter, utilities) or sell (your labor, paycheck, benefits) anything. The Elect are told not to follow either law. Thus, at this time, the Elect are dropping like flies. This intense time of unjust death penalty and starvation will be abruptly cut short - or else no life (that is applicable! - only the Elect are suffering!) would remain. SOME of us WILL be alive to see the Lord come. Most of us won't be that fortunate to never die at all. But here's the good news: You don't have to make it to the end to make it into Heaven! The Great Tribulation ends when the sun/moon/star sign for the Day of the Lord begins because at that time - the wicked world is put on notice that God is coming again and they will suffer. They are so worried about their own skin, which bears the Mark of the Beast, that all effective tribulation ceases. If any remains - it too will end very soon - that very day.

Not really, not in my opinion at least. The book of Revelation is written using parallel accounts. Within each account there is linear narratives which tell a story in sequence fashion: this happens, then this happens, and so on. The accounts have overlapping time frames, but they do not all have the same time frame. So yes, I know about the book of Revelation.

No, the word is oudeis - that is a pronoun. It does not say no MAN - which is a noun - could be found. oudeis means no one. As such, no one (anyone) could be found. If you want to say no MAN could be found - then where is your church as no MEN are yet in Heaven?

No. Chapters 4 and 5 set the stage for the Seal/Scroll chronology. John describes everything and everyone he sees, and there is no body equal to the billions which encompass the Church for 2000 years and even that number is supplemented by true believers before Jesus like Daniel. The sixth Seal includes the sun/moon/star event which according to Joel 2:31, precedes the Day of the Lord. "The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. The sixth Seal also reveals what I think is the sign of the Son of Man - the scrolling of the sky. This happens first - and THEN Jesus comes. The sixth Seal also includes the Firstfruits - who are also mentioned in the detailed parallel account of just the one 'seven' in Revelation chapters 13-16 as coming before the Harvest. The sixth Seal then has John seeing the Great Multitude for the first time - and the quality they possess, freedom from sin, they get from Jesus - just as we do! They are us. And no less than an Elder says exactly what Jesus says in the Olivet Discourse where He said the gathering of the Elect comes after the days of the Great Tribulation - which are cut short (not 2000 years long) - that the Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation. You say "the Rapture happens before Daniels 70th Week begins". The Bible does not say that. That is your conclusion, so as an apriori decision, you reject any interpretation contrary to your belief.

I disagree. We, the Church, those who believe in Jesus and wash our robes white in His Blood - are the Elect, as eklektos is used in every other reference to a people in the New Testament! MT 22:14 "For many are invited, but few are chosen." LK 18: 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? ROM 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? RO 16:13 Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, COL 3:12 Therefore, as God's chosen people 2TI 2:10 for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, 1PE 1:1 To God's elect, strangers in the world, 1PE 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, 2JN 1:1 To the chosen lady and her children, 2JN 1:13 The children of your chosen sister send their greetings REV 17:14 -and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." - NIV EVERY TIME eklektos is used for a people in the New Testament, it refers to believers - not Israelis. The ONLY reason you change the word's meaning here is to keep your own Pre-Trib eschatology intact and not have it fall apart on an internal inconsistency.