seeking the lost

Greetings Montana The tares are evidently present in your quotation. there is a teaching of Jesus that the tares are to be taken out first. You do know that the wheat and the tares grow together until the end. The harvest begins with the tares being gathered and burned. Is this hard to understand? Looking forward to being left behind.

I see you are struggling with my concept of resurrection. You have stated the scriptures accurately and that is truth. The dead in Christ must rise first. Where we disagree is in the timing.. The only time that the rapture can take place is after the dead in Christ are raised, which happens as stated in Rev. 20, at the end of the thousand years. The rapture is at least 1007 years away from now. before that happens there will be tribulation for 7 years. Many believers will die for their faith. The days of the tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect. If those days were not shortened there would no flesh be saved alive. There will be Christians that survive the tribulation. During the time of the tribulation, those outside of Christ will experience the wrath of God. Believers will be protected by a seal as stated in Rev. 7, 3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. This is followed by the instructions in Rev. 9, The Fifth Trumpet 1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. This is the time that the tares and the wheat are beginning to be separated. The seal will be similar to that described in Ezekiel 9, 1He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand. 2And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. 3And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; 4And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. 5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. 8And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem? 9Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not. 10And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head. 11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me. Judgment begins at the house of God. You might remember the parable of the wheat and tares. The tares are gathered first and burned. Jesus will come and clean house. Looking forward to being left behind. Those who live through the tribulation are now going to enter the millennium. They will be joined by those who have been killed for their faith as described in Rev. 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There are many last days but only one has a resurrection connected with it. Your reasoning is in line with a cunningly devised story. Have you found a key to add a resurrection before the first resurrection? The Bible is clear that the first resurrection is at the end of the tribulation.

The purpose of the rapture is not to protect us from wrath. The dead in Christ are raised up on the last day. That day is described in the text, Rev. 20: 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They a had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. The last day is at the end of the thousand years and that is the last day. After this day there are no other days on this earth. That is the time of the elements melt with fervent heat. The first resurrection is limited to those described for the stated purpose. They are raised to reign on the earth, they do not go up anywhere yet. Because of the warning contained in the revelation, it is not a good idea to add resurrections and raptures wherever you think it fits.

The dangers are clearly stated. You must not add to or take away from the writings of this book. To deny that which is to come is as dangerous as adding resurrections and raptures.

Looking for the rapture and looking for the coming of the Lord is not the same thing. First, Jesus is here. Second, when he comes he will first take out the tares and the wheat will remain. This is the conquering King wiping out all who do not weep and mourn over iniquity. Third, he will come as the Judge of all the earth. That will be the time that the dead in Christ are raised. It is only after the dead in Christ are raised that the rapture can occur.

The recreational rapture finding is very dangerous because the practice violates the word. The word is very clear in Rev.:22 Nothing May Be Added 17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely. 18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.… Most of the theories have to add or alter the time of the resurrection. Failure to pay attention to the curse was the problem of man from the beginning.

Yes, there are many theories. The rapture is a reality because the scripture does tell us of that event. The resurrection of the dead in Christ is the event that must precede the rapture. Jesus clearly identifies that time as the last day. The only time that could be without doing violence to the text is at the end of the thousand years. The purpose of the rapture is not to save from wrath but to take people away from the earth which is being melted with fervent heat and will be no more.

This is a very good answer. The question has a doctrine of absence at its base. what would Jesus do if He were here? The good news is that He is here.

It is not that complicated. Jesus was involved in all of these things that you mention. Jesus has full knowledge of these events and relates them to John. John relates these things to us. Jesus tells John, "this is the first resurrection". Because of the source and reliability of the source, I can with assurance say this is the first resurrection.

They were in the grave. That is why it is called being raised.

I can only go by the scripture. Revelation 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years.

No not at all. There are two resurrections. The first is at the end of the tribulation. This is a limited resurrection. The people raised are raised to reign on the earth. They do not go up for any length of time, like in a big u-turn. The second resurrection includes the rest of the dead. The time of the second resurrection is the time of judgment. A time that the books are opened and there is a separation of sheep and goats. It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment.

The dead in Christ are raised first then those who are alive and remain are caught up and changed in twinkling of an eye. The resurrection at the end of the thousand years is the time the dead in Christ are raised. This is according to the teaching of Jesus who taught that believers will be raised on the last day

My view is that many of the teachings of the rapture are demon inspired. Most of these doctrines require adding to the scripture or taking away from it. The demonic realm is very interested in driving man to be cursed. The word of the Lord is, do not add to the writings of this book or you will be cursed. The demons have deceived people with these words, God does not want you to suffer. The inspiration of demons then is to assist in helping to find where the exit is. The exit is the rapture. The rapture is connected with the resurrection which is yet future. No one should add resurrections or suppose that there is a rapture without the resurrection of the dead. The western Church is very interested in who can find the most raptures. Some teachers have identified as many as 16 raptures. I call it recreational rapture finding. Most of the world is in severe persecution already. Nothing May Be Added or Removed 18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

That is a stretch. The only thing this verse says is that the church observes communion, showing forth His death until He comes. The verse does not say that the coming is for any particular group. The Church is to remember the death of Christ until He comes.

Greetings I would encourage you not to call the rapture rubbish. Much of what is being debated on this site is based on doctrines of demons. There is a rapture and it comes at the end of the thousand years. That is the time that the dead in Crist are raised. There is a warning about adding to the writing but these doctrines take the liberty to add resurrections and raptures where ever they please. You are correct to point out that the tares, those planted by the evil one are taken out first. (looking forward to being left behind) Ezekiel 9 is a pattern of what will happen on that day of separation. There are many passages that indicate this very thing but those given to recreational rapture finding can not see the truth. I like your observation of the carcass. The carcass is buzzard bait.

I believe that each of these things will happen, 1) there will be a time of great trouble, 2)People will be delivered, and 3) there will be a resurrection of the dead. This being said they do not happen at the same time. The timeline cannot conflict with that which is revealed in Revelation. It is important not to add to the writings of this book.

Thy people shall be delivered does not equal a resurrection/rapture. The clarity of the time is given to John by Jesus. That revelation of Jesus does not agree with your interpretation of Daniel's revelation.

Those that are resurrected after the tribulation are not going up. They are raised to reign on the earth. There is no mention of them ascending or anyone else going up with them.

That statement neglects the statement of Revelation 20. This passage declares that there is a limited resurrection at the end of the tribulation and a second resurrection after the thousand years.

That is interesting. The world as we know it will pass away with fervent heat. The culmination will be the resurrection/rapture followed by judgment. This is the time of separating the sheep and the goats.

The two resurrections mentioned in Revelation 20 are different than you describe. The first resurrection is very specific only for those who have been beheaded. Revelation 20: 4, I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. There are many that are not included in this resurrection and are described as the rest of the dead. The rest of the dead includes many of "the dead in Christ." Those who believe in Jesus are raised on the last day as Jesus says. The last day is the day after which there are no other days. That is the day of judgment. That is the day that all stand before the throne and are judged. This is the time that the books are opened and separation happens. Sheep to the right goats to the left.

We look at the same text and see different things. Dealing with the text of Revelation 20 there are two resurrections identified. The second is the only one that includes those that are described as the rest of the dead. That is what I see in Dan. 12:2. This is the time of the Matthew 25 separation of sheep and goats. Sheep and goats parallel everlasting life and everlasting contempt. Jesus spoke of the resurrection of those who believe in Him and said it would be on the last day. John 6:44 KJV No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. The last day is at the end of the thousand years.

The time setting is when satan is loosed at the end of the thousand years. The and remain is that they have remained faithful. They have not succumbed to the second death. This is the time of the resurrection.