seeking the lost
-
Posts
500 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by seeking the lost
-
-
16 hours ago, The Light said:
Yes I have found a key. It's called the truth.
Please explain this if you can. 1 Thes 4 states that the dead in Christ rise first and then alive believers are caught up to meet them in the clouds. 1 Corinthians 15 says the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. How can they be the resurrection given the parameters.
1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Cor 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Also in Daniel 12 it says MANY OF THEM that sleep in the ground shall arise. Why not all of the them?
Daniel 12
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Just wondering if you realize that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal?
I see you are struggling with my concept of resurrection. You have stated the scriptures accurately and that is truth. The dead in Christ must rise first. Where we disagree is in the timing.. The only time that the rapture can take place is after the dead in Christ are raised, which happens as stated in Rev. 20, at the end of the thousand years.
The rapture is at least 1007 years away from now. before that happens there will be tribulation for 7 years. Many believers will die for their faith. The days of the tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect. If those days were not shortened there would no flesh be saved alive. There will be Christians that survive the tribulation.
During the time of the tribulation, those outside of Christ will experience the wrath of God. Believers will be protected by a seal as stated in Rev. 7, 3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. This is followed by the instructions in Rev. 9,
The Fifth Trumpet
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. This is the time that the tares and the wheat are beginning to be separated. The seal will be similar to that described in Ezekiel 9,
1He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand. 2And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
3And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; 4And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. 5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. 8And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?
9Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not. 10And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.
11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
Judgment begins at the house of God.
You might remember the parable of the wheat and tares. The tares are gathered first and burned. Jesus will come and clean house. Looking forward to being left behind.
Those who live through the tribulation are now going to enter the millennium. They will be joined by those who have been killed for their faith as described in Rev. 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
-
On 4/11/2023 at 6:00 PM, The Light said:
The dead in Christ rise first.
You have the wrong last day.
The Church will be raptured when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, before the seals are opened. The second harvest will occur at the end of the tribulation which occurs at the sixth seal. Then there is the Judgement of the dead after the trumpets and of course at the end of the 1000 years
There are many last days but only one has a resurrection connected with it. Your reasoning is in line with a cunningly devised story. Have you found a key to add a resurrection before the first resurrection? The Bible is clear that the first resurrection is at the end of the tribulation.
-
On 4/8/2023 at 3:18 PM, The Light said:
How can what you say be correct? When comes at the end of wrath and judges the earth, he is setting up the kingdom of God on earth. There is no need to be raptured anywhere at that point.
Yes, the dead in Christ rise first. That is before the seals are opened. The seals are the final week. So the dead in Christ rise first. After that Christ comes for the alive believers. After the seals are opened and God turns His attention to His Chosen.
The purpose of the rapture is not to protect us from wrath. The dead in Christ are raised up on the last day. That day is described in the text, Rev. 20: 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They a had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. The last day is at the end of the thousand years and that is the last day. After this day there are no other days on this earth. That is the time of the elements melt with fervent heat.
The first resurrection is limited to those described for the stated purpose. They are raised to reign on the earth, they do not go up anywhere yet.
Because of the warning contained in the revelation, it is not a good idea to add resurrections and raptures wherever you think it fits.
-
On 3/24/2023 at 7:46 AM, choir loft said:
I really wish you'd read my post - all the way through.
Again there are 16 different variations of rapture, tribulation & millenium theories. No two of them agree. They don't agree because of a few simple reasons.
First, are speculations surrounding the Second Coming involving events that have already happened. The Tribulation of the Jews is one of them and is already past. (btw, I'm not a Preterist. I'm an historian.)
Second, are doctrines that are directly disproved by history or which depend upon a nebulous interpretation of it. For instance, three different versions of the millenium are linked to the second coming. Most theologians of worth, as well as church historians, recognize only two remain. Following the human disaster of WWI, theologians realized that certain specific events regarding the pre-millenial advent of Christ weren't plausible. Since the tribulation has already happened, it's not possible to peg the immediate second coming to that event either.
Third, and most important, is that although there's a basis for the Second Coming in BOTH the old and new testaments, the problem with interpretation is the SEQUENCE of events involved.
Jews got the First Coming wrong (and still do) because they didn't understand the sequence of events surrounding Jesus' first appearance among us. Scriptures are quoted stating either that Jesus didn't arrive, that He wasn't who He said He was or that messiah is yet to come.
Jews didn't read their own scripture and got it wrong. Today, Christians don't read their own scripture either - and get it wrong all over again.
Neither will they listen to reproof because they have hardened their hearts and closed their minds.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
The dangers are clearly stated. You must not add to or take away from the writings of this book. To deny that which is to come is as dangerous as adding resurrections and raptures.
-
On 3/17/2023 at 4:07 PM, The Light said:
No sir, the danger is not watching and being ready for the Messiah.
Hebrews 9
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Looking for the rapture and looking for the coming of the Lord is not the same thing. First, Jesus is here. Second, when he comes he will first take out the tares and the wheat will remain. This is the conquering King wiping out all who do not weep and mourn over iniquity. Third, he will come as the Judge of all the earth. That will be the time that the dead in Christ are raised. It is only after the dead in Christ are raised that the rapture can occur.
-
57 minutes ago, FJK said:
I have to ask: Does any of that really matter? How should it affect how we live our lives as we live them now, facing the trials and tribulations of them as Christians? How are we told to live our lives until it does happen, and does knowing when it will happen change anything about how we are to live?
Starts becoming one of those Martin Luther and his apple tree things, doesn't it? At least that's the way I see it.
The recreational rapture finding is very dangerous because the practice violates the word. The word is very clear in Rev.:22 Nothing May Be Added
17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!” And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely. 18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.…Most of the theories have to add or alter the time of the resurrection. Failure to pay attention to the curse was the problem of man from the beginning.
-
On 2/24/2023 at 2:26 PM, choir loft said:
Everybody is caught up in the rapture fallacy - doctrinally if not literally.
I've heard at least 16 different versions of it. If it's truly of God and in the Bible there ought to be one version that everyone accepts as valid. One example of validity is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. There's no argument about that point at all.
In point of fact, it was INVENTED by a Jesuit priest in the latter part of the 16th century so as to confuse the followers of the protestant reformation. At bottom line its a doctrine of cowards - those who don't want to exercise their faith and who prefer an easy escape mechanism if its a fantasy.
The context of scripture is how we determine truth. Context firmly establishes that God wants His people to walk THROUGH the troubles of earth by relying upon faith in Him to see them THROUGH it.
Rapture fanatics absolutely refuse to allow the fact of over a dozen variations of their favorite heresy into their minds. They prefer the Star Trek beam-out version regardless of its ridiculousness.
Keep waiting. The rest of us will be in heaven with the Lord and you'll still be sitting on your mountain top (or under your bedroom mattress) hiding from hard times.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Yes, there are many theories. The rapture is a reality because the scripture does tell us of that event. The resurrection of the dead in Christ is the event that must precede the rapture. Jesus clearly identifies that time as the last day. The only time that could be without doing violence to the text is at the end of the thousand years. The purpose of the rapture is not to save from wrath but to take people away from the earth which is being melted with fervent heat and will be no more.
-
4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:
Answer: He would look to the Father to know His will in each matter.
The slogan WWJD? is really just a good start, because it only gives us the historical, written record of Christ. That is, the writings of the New Testament are 2000 years old, but we have the living Christ whose Anointing Spirit lives and speaks within us now!
This is a very good answer. The question has a doctrine of absence at its base.
what would Jesus do if He were here? The good news is that He is here.
-
1
-
1
-
-
4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:
The first resurrection consists of those
1. on whom the second death hath no power and those
2. who are priests of God and of Christ and reign with Him a thousand years.
So how do these play into that picture of first resurrection, AS IT IS WRITTEN, since you can only go by Scripture?
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders says to me, Not do weep Behold, has overcome the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, to open the scroll and the seven seals of it (3528 nikáō(from 3529 /níkē, "victory") – properly, conquer (overcome); " 'to carry off the victory, come off victorious.' The verb implies a battle")
6 And I saw in midst of the throne and and of the four living creatures and in midst of the elders, a Lamb standing as HAVING BEEN SLAIN, having horns 7 and eyes 7 which are the 7 Spirits of God having been sent out into all the earth
7 And He came and took out of the right hand of the {One{ sitting on the throne
8 And when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty four elders fell down before the Lamb having each a harp and bowls golden being full of incenses, which are the prayers of the saints KJV
In Greek order
Rev 5:9 And they are singing a song new, saying, Worthy are You to take the scroll and to open the seals of it because You were slain and
You purchased to God by the blood of You
out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation
Rev 5:10 and You have made them to the God of us a kingdom and priests and they will reign upon the earth
Rev 5:11 And I looked and I heard voice of angels many around the throne and the living creatures and of the elders and was the number of them myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands
Rev 5:12 saying in a voice loud Worthy is the Lamb HAVING BEEN SLAIN to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing!
Rev 5:13 And every creature which in heaven and upon the earth and under the earth and on the sea is and in them everything, I heard saying To the {One} sitting on the throne and to the Lamb blessing and honor and glory and might to the ages of the ages
If not from THEM THAT SLEPT, those who graves had opened, those who had been captive and set free, those who's bodies had risen, those who He had led when He ascended...
after He got the keys and took the power from death and hell over GODS PEOPLE by becoming the atonement for sin, paying the ransom, tasting death so we don't have to....
THEN WHERE?
And since THAT took place 2000 years ago....how can a FIRST RESURRECTION come at different times if it is not of type but of time?
It is not that complicated. Jesus was involved in all of these things that you mention. Jesus has full knowledge of these events and relates them to John. John relates these things to us. Jesus tells John, "this is the first resurrection". Because of the source and reliability of the source, I can with assurance say this is the first resurrection.
-
3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:
From where are they raised up?
They were in the grave. That is why it is called being raised.
-
3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:
What do you call this?
50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
I can only go by the scripture. Revelation 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years.
-
2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:
Are you saying when the natural body dies (the first death), that we are NOT raised up to continue on living in heaven in our spiritual body?
No not at all. There are two resurrections. The first is at the end of the tribulation. This is a limited resurrection. The people raised are raised to reign on the earth. They do not go up for any length of time, like in a big u-turn. The second resurrection includes the rest of the dead. The time of the second resurrection is the time of judgment. A time that the books are opened and there is a separation of sheep and goats.
It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:
Maybe you can answer this for me.
How does one who never dies become one of the DEAD? and when since as in Adam our mortal 'natural body dies' but in Christ our mortal spiritual body is quickened?
And how do you deal with the dead who are raised from the corruption not becoming immortal until their names are found in the book of life?And since the dead that are raised up are judged at the end are judged by WORKS and not faith, where did those who through faith never die go?
The dead in Christ are raised first then those who are alive and remain are caught up and changed in twinkling of an eye. The resurrection at the end of the thousand years is the time the dead in Christ are raised. This is according to the teaching of Jesus who taught that believers will be raised on the last day
-
1
-
-
On 2/16/2023 at 7:55 AM, choir loft said:
You seem to exhibit the misdirected attitude that the doctrines of man are divine. They aren't. The doctrines of rapture & millenium are all concepts of the western church. Indeed they are further restricted to American evangelicals and no other.
My view is that many of the teachings of the rapture are demon inspired. Most of these doctrines require adding to the scripture or taking away from it.
The demonic realm is very interested in driving man to be cursed. The word of the Lord is, do not add to the writings of this book or you will be cursed. The demons have deceived people with these words, God does not want you to suffer. The inspiration of demons then is to assist in helping to find where the exit is. The exit is the rapture.
The rapture is connected with the resurrection which is yet future. No one should add resurrections or suppose that there is a rapture without the resurrection of the dead.
The western Church is very interested in who can find the most raptures. Some teachers have identified as many as 16 raptures. I call it recreational rapture finding. Most of the world is in severe persecution already.
Nothing May Be Added or Removed
18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
-
1
-
-
On 2/16/2023 at 8:24 AM, farouk said:
Hi Sir. It's interesting that 1 Cor. 11.26 speaks of the Lord's coming in relation to the church and not to any other entity.
That is a stretch. The only thing this verse says is that the church observes communion, showing forth His death until He comes. The verse does not say that the coming is for any particular group. The Church is to remember the death of Christ until He comes.
-
1
-
-
On 12/17/2022 at 10:12 AM, choir loft said:
Did you read my post?
Scripture says those who will be left behind are the BLESSED of God.
Those that are taken are removed by DEMONS unto destruction.
Proponents of the common interpretation of rapture have already decided on the story they'll accept and use bits and pieces of scripture to justify their false doctrine. None bother to consider Biblical CONTEXT.
This is always the way satan confuses humanity. This has always been the way we convinced ourselves of comfortable, but false ideas.
Read the Bible.
When Jesus' disciples asked where the people who were to be removed would be taken HIS words are the ones we need to consider;
“Where, Lord?” they asked.
Jesus answered, “Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.” (Luke 17:37)
Carcass is a simple word which means a DEAD BODY. Look it up in any dictionary. Vultures is a reference to birds that subsist upon dead meat. Vultures, or eagles as it is sometimes translated refer to carrion eaters, predators, etc. Symbolically the word here refers to demons since holy angels aren't ever associated with the dead.
The meaning here is clear, but has been reversed by those with a religious agenda to confuse and muddy the clear teaching of Holy Writ.
Read it again and consider the context.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Greetings
I would encourage you not to call the rapture rubbish. Much of what is being debated on this site is based on doctrines of demons. There is a rapture and it comes at the end of the thousand years. That is the time that the dead in Crist are raised. There is a warning about adding to the writing but these doctrines take the liberty to add resurrections and raptures where ever they please.
You are correct to point out that the tares, those planted by the evil one are taken out first. (looking forward to being left behind) Ezekiel 9 is a pattern of what will happen on that day of separation. There are many passages that indicate this very thing but those given to recreational rapture finding can not see the truth.
I like your observation of the carcass. The carcass is buzzard bait.
-
15 hours ago, truth7t7 said:
To claim their is no resurrection taking place below would be a false assumption, and yes it clearly teaches that "The People" will be found in the book of life, and yes this takes place at the time of "Tge Great Tribulation" "At That Time"
You can shout it 99 more times, there will be one future time of resurrection of "All" and near the time of "The Great Tribulation"
Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
I believe that each of these things will happen, 1) there will be a time of great trouble, 2)People will be delivered, and 3) there will be a resurrection of the dead. This being said they do not happen at the same time. The timeline cannot conflict with that which is revealed in Revelation. It is important not to add to the writings of this book.
-
1
-
-
6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:
I Strongly Disagee, Daniel 12:1-2 below sets the time of the resurrection and "Final Judgement" at the time of The Great Tribulation, great world trouble never seen in history, "At That Time" the resurrection if "All" takes place, as "The Book Of Life" is seen opened, this will be a "One Time Judgement" (The End)
You can repeat yourself a hundred times, the scripture below shows your claim of "Two Resurrection" 1,000 years apart to be "False", it's that simple
Jesus Is The Lord
"At That Time"
Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Thy people shall be delivered does not equal a resurrection/rapture. The clarity of the time is given to John by Jesus. That revelation of Jesus does not agree with your interpretation of Daniel's revelation.
-
On 2/2/2023 at 5:08 AM, Diaste said:
I would only suggest it's the beheaded and those who did not receive the mark and those who refused to worship the beast and his image.
A reason for this is the living taken off the earth when Jesus arrives. The living taken up will have refused the mark and the worship.
Another is the ones from out of GT in Rev 7. I'm convinced this is the living and the resurrected dead taken up when Jesus returns.
From that it seems to me that both the living taken up and the resurrected dead are in the group in Rev 20 and rule and reign with Jesus for 1000.
But still only those from GT who faced the beast.
[maybe also any throughout all time who were beheaded for the word of God and their testimony of Jesus. Just a thought.]
IMO
Those that are resurrected after the tribulation are not going up. They are raised to reign on the earth. There is no mention of them ascending or anyone else going up with them.
-
On 1/31/2023 at 2:35 PM, truth7t7 said:
I Disagree
As was clearly shown, there is one future time that "All" will be resurrected, this takes place at the second coming on the last day (The End)
Jesus Is The Lord
That statement neglects the statement of Revelation 20. This passage declares that there is a limited resurrection at the end of the tribulation and a second resurrection after the thousand years.
-
1
-
-
On 2/1/2023 at 3:01 PM, WilliamL said:
The last "day" is the 7th Millennium, according to Bible speak: the last "day" of the 7-day week of 1000 years each.
There will be no literal last day, because the ages will never end:
Ephesians 3:21 ...to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever [literally, unto the ages of the ages].
That is interesting. The world as we know it will pass away with fervent heat. The culmination will be the resurrection/rapture followed by judgment. This is the time of separating the sheep and the goats.
-
21 hours ago, truth7t7 said:
There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.
The two resurrections mentioned in Revelation 20 are different than you describe. The first resurrection is very specific only for those who have been beheaded. Revelation 20: 4, I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. There are many that are not included in this resurrection and are described as the rest of the dead. The rest of the dead includes many of "the dead in Christ."
Those who believe in Jesus are raised on the last day as Jesus says. The last day is the day after which there are no other days. That is the day of judgment. That is the day that all stand before the throne and are judged. This is the time that the books are opened and separation happens. Sheep to the right goats to the left.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:
The resurrection of "All" takes place at the time of "The Great Tribulation" when the final judgement takes place as Daniel 12:1-2 teaches below
Your suggestion the resurrection takes place "After" a 1,000 year Millennium on this earth is wrong
1.) A time of trouble never seen in world history "At That Time"
2.) Those written in the book, final judgment taking place
3.) The resurrection of "All", everlasting life, everlasting contempt
"At That Time"
Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
We look at the same text and see different things. Dealing with the text of Revelation 20 there are two resurrections identified. The second is the only one that includes those that are described as the rest of the dead. That is what I see in Dan. 12:2. This is the time of the Matthew 25 separation of sheep and goats. Sheep and goats parallel everlasting life and everlasting contempt. Jesus spoke of the resurrection of those who believe in Him and said it would be on the last day.
John 6:44 KJV
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The last day is at the end of the thousand years. -
On 1/24/2023 at 9:08 AM, Vine Abider said:
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." I Thessalonians 4:16-17
Why does this specifically say, "and remains" (or "are left")? After the dead are raised, it doesn't just say those are "still alive" will be caught up to the clouds, but rather it distinguishes those "who are still alive and remain." Why is that - are there some who are alive on the earth that are taken before the Lord descends to the cloud (meaning some will be "alive and remain")?
The time setting is when satan is loosed at the end of the thousand years. The and remain is that they have remained faithful. They have not succumbed to the second death. This is the time of the resurrection.
Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture
in Eschatology
Posted
Greetings Montana
The tares are evidently present in your quotation. there is a teaching of Jesus that the tares are to be taken out first. You do know that the wheat and the tares grow together until the end. The harvest begins with the tares being gathered and burned. Is this hard to understand?
Looking forward to being left behind.