Running Gator

Best thing the House has done in years.

That's weird, all the stories I read said that the assets and resources that were going to be used to help Texas are now being used to help the earthquake and their own hurricane victims. But I suppose a little old 8.1 earthquake is not really a good reason not to give your limited resources to a different country.

If you take the government's money, you have to accept the strings that are attached to it.

I am glad we can agree on the purpose of the tree of life. Which is exactly why Jesus' victory was over spiritual death, and not physical death. And it is exactly why Adam's sin brought about spiritual death and not physical.

It weakened more than they expected over Cuba so some of the predictions did not pan out. That is a occasion for celebration, not bashing the news

I agree, a literal tree whose only stated purpose was to provide "fruit" that caused the eater to live forever.

Thank JohnD. I agree that those verses could mean what you suggest, I do not view them that way but I can see how people do. I think there are many more. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. The death spoken of here is not physical death as everyone dies a physical death, even those that have received the gift of eternal life. Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins This is speaking of being spiritually dead, not physically. John 8:51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” Again, this is speaking of spiritual death, not physical as every sees physical death.

That is correct, we do not know. Yet only one side is using this as proof of something that has never been proven to exist, widespread voter fraud. And even if you could prove all 5000 plus were fraudulent, you could not prove who they were cast for. It is every bit as likely that people from surrounding states who knew their states were a lost cause drove to NH to vote for Trump and try and tip the state for him. If they are following the rules, it cannot by definition be fraud. I am of the mind that voting should be as easy and accessible as possible. I like this system that NH uses, it allows everyone to easily have a voice.

No evidence of wide spread voter fraud. Of course there is some fraud going on, humans are involved, which guarantees cheating and fraud.

Yes, your MSM news article had the same things they all do, a few random folks here and there voting illegally. just like all the examples give above.

It seems there are a lot of different views on this topic. thanks to you all for your replies

I agree with this except even the act of a federal election falls under the jurisdiction of the state and I think the Feds should stay out of it as they do not have the authority to interfere. I am assuming there was never anything proven, just lots of accusations. See above, keep the Feds out of this. It is not their role, in my opinion. I actually think early voting helps to stop fraud, not make it worse. If you have a line an hour or two long waiting to vote then those checking registration will be less careful in an attempt to get the line down. While it might be true that nobody is so busy they cannot make it between 6 and 9, some are close. Take my wife for example, she leaves the house at 5:30 to go to work and is lucky to be home by 8 or so. If her shift fell on an election day it would be hard to make it, not to mention there might be a long line waiting. When I was a Shift Manager at WalMart my shift was from 7am-8pm with a 45 minute drive either way. Voting would have been impossible for me. As our country grows and more and more people are voting, I find the idea of a single day of voting less and less practical. I am of the mind that voting should be as easy as possible. Yes and no. I do not know if you are drinker, but I like the occasional beer and I have not been asked for my ID for more than a decade...I guess I just look old! lol The ironic part is that of all the incidents of fraud you listed above, I am not sure this would have stopped a single one. Perhaps because it would not impact fraud at all, based upon what we have seen. Who benefits, the person that is eligible to vote but lost their ID. Seems to be a common theme in our country.

Yes it does. And thanks to your links we know that it is being rooted out and dealt with when found. What could we change, on a national level that would have stopped most of these? Do you favor doing away with absentee ballots since that seemed to be the crux of much of the fraud? What laws can we change to stop someone from giving out booze and money in exchange for votes, since it is already illegal? What new laws would stop someone from threatening someone in order to get their vote, since it is already illegal? I think you get my point, since you posted these examples, how would you stop them from ever happening?

Based upon 50 plus years of observation, I would say that Jesus did not redeem us from physical death. Clearly people that has been redeemed by Jesus die, I think this is a fact we can both agree on. The death that Jesus redeemed us from is spiritual death, separation from God.

I ask for proof and I get you an opinion about 'anti-Trumpers". That does not really fit the bill. So, if you have some proof please provide it, if not then I will take my leave from this discussion with you.

Well yes, you are the "as some suggest" that I was referring to. I disagree with that view and I use the tree of life as one of the reasons why. If you do not agree I am ok with that. As George pointed out we are just going in circles, so unless you have something new, I will take my leave from the discussion.

I never said they could not die in the first place, that is your assertion, not mine nor the bibles.

A few points. First, most people I know are very confident in the actual voting system. The only people I know that are worried about it all seem to be from the same political persuasion. Second, you run into the law of diminishing returns. How much time, money and resources is is worth to shave off another .01% here and there? Take my job for example, I am a Survey Statistician who puts out agricultural estimates on weekly, monthly, quarterly and annual basis. There are multiple sources of data, but the main source of data is the producers who reply to a survey sent to them. Now, while my estimates tend to be very accurate, if I were to double the number of people I survey they could be even more accurate, but there is the cost of doing so, the time of me dealing with the extra data and the extra burden put on the folks being surveyed. So, we do our best to find that sweet spot in the middle where we get the best data without exceeding the time and dollar parameters. The same thing is done in the area of voter fraud, the question is where is the "sweet spot". And it is a question I doubt many of us would agree on the answer to. Then, for me there is one other issue, and that is when the effort to stop fraud starts to affect those trying to vote legitimately. The more stringent the measures for fighting fraud, the more people that will have their vote taken from them wrongly. And once the election is over there is no way to rectify such a thing. To me it is always best to err on the side of everyone who is allowed being able to vote. As to who benefits from keeping it an issue, I would say that the obvious answer is the group that keeps making an issue out of it.

What a cute kid!

Yes, I agree it is possible and it could have had. It was requested of me that I "show scripture that even hints at that?" Which I did, since we are now in the realm of "possible" and "could have" then it is also could have the purpose I think the passage "hints" at. Thanks!

Please provide proof of this statement of fact that you keep repeating.

There is no way at all to know how they were cast for, such things are not tracked in our country. In this case not even party affiliation is known, not that it means much anymore these days.

Works for me!

Scripture states the purpose of the tree, you are making assumptions that purpose somehow changed after the fall. Scripture does not tell us that is the case.

And there's still no good evidence of that happening. Even in this case, pretending that most were not college students as their locations would suggest, it is just as likely that Trump supporters from Mass knew their state was a lost cause and drove to NH to try and tip that state and failed. Here is a much more in depth article with lots of actual data and other links if anyone really wants to dig into this. http://nhpr.org/post/where-were-out-state-ids-used-vote-new-hampshire-last-november#stream/0