Heb 13:8

Ok, then you agree that Stellarium tracked Rev 12:1-5 in the heavens on 9/23/17?

Matt 24:42-44 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. 1 Thess 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. Rev 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. No, the dragon represents the constellation draco, planet x and the antichrist system which represents kingdoms and nations on earth. The dragon actually has celestial and also earthly meaning. seven heads - Rev 12, 13, 17 ten horns - Dan 7, Rev 12, 13, 17 seven crowns - Rev 12 Iam, the church was conceived through Israel on Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4, and how did the Son who was also a Jew conceive the church? By dying on the cross and rising on the third day. The seed of the Holy Spirit couldn't have been planted in Acts 2:1-4 without the death, burial and resurrection. Technically the Son is a virgin and died a virgin and was without blemish or sin. The Holy Spirit conceived the Son, not man, Matt 1:18 God bless.

and most commentaries do not study Greek words, they also come from the 1600's and 1700's. a time in history when they didn't have the technology like Stellarium to track Rev 12:1-5 in the heavens. ?

harpazo is a snatching away with quick force, to obtain by robbery. this is not how Jesus ascended.

No, the term for Jesus ascension was not the word "harpazo". A harpazo is a rescue from the red dragon. Jesus had already defeated the devil in which He did not need to be rescued or snatched away quickly. God bless.

No, Rev 12:1-5 is referring to corporate entities, Israel, the body of Christ and the Antichrist system. The word harpazo in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5 is referring to the rapture of the church. Lack of knowledge is the drug of death. Ok, so there's three stages to the body of Christ when discussing end times events. The scriptures below are just a collection of what I've gathered. More than likely, there is probably more scriptures that coincide with the three stages and the travail of the body through cross reference. These passages are just the basics for now, but as long as we have the format or the outline it can make algebra look like addition. 1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception) 2. Individual conception in the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9) 3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5 After the conception of the church at Pentecost, whenever someone comes to faith in Christ that person gets placed into the body of Christ. For 2,000 years, His body has been in gestation growing ever so larger until the body gets to what is called a full term pregnancy. Full term is anywhere between 37 to 42 weeks, via Jupiter in the body of Virgo for 42 weeks completing the Rev 12:1-5 great sign in its awesome perfection and form. God is using the human conception/gestation/birth story to describe His story of the divinity of the church age. Just as a child's head comes out first prior to the body, so it is with Jesus (the head of the church) ascending to heaven first prior to the body, Col 1:18... Isa 53:11 - Jesus body in travail Rom 8:22-25 - the body of Christ groans for their resurrected bodies 1 Cor 15:8 - Paul feels abnormally born without resurrected body 1 Cor 15:50-54/2 Cor 5:1-5 - Mortal/Immortal/Swallowed up 2 Cor 5:1-5 - the body of Christ groans for their resurrected bodies Gal 4:19 - Paul relates travail in birth to not being formed yet Hopefully, I've made this as easy as possible to discern. This is probably one of the most complex topics in relation to end times, but once it clicks in your mind and you see the bigger picture you will see it like a blind man opening his eyes for the first time. Sometimes tradition isn't always right, Jhn 20:29. God bless.

No, it's the body of Christ being caught up. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17, not 2000 yr ago.

No, Rev 12:5 the word harpazo is meant for the church. The church will actually rule with Christ with a rod of iron, Rev 2:26-27.

Right, Rev 12:5 says we are caught up, and guess who we meet in the air in 1 Thess 4:17? Our Lord Jesus Christ. Rev chapter 4 is describing the throne room in Rev 12:5. Iam, you're missing a big chunk here. Remember, Jesus remains in heaven until His Second Coming at the end of the 70th week, Rev 19:14. Where else would He be??? In Rev 4:11, the Greek actually says, "worthy are you the Lord and the God of us". The name Lord is given to Jesus, the name Abba Father is giving to God himself. When discussing the trinity you always say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, three persons.

He is there, He's always been there since the ascension. You failed to make the connection in Rev 4:11 and the rapture verses in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. Focus on the names (Lord, Lamb, God).

To understand the 27 books of the NT we need to first know who is speaking to who, who is the author and who is the audience. Gal 2:7-8 Instead, they saw that God had given me the responsibility of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews. 8For the same God who worked through Peter as the apostle to the Jews also worked through me as the apostle to the Gentiles. (Jesus/For Israel) Matt Mark Luke John (Author/Luke?) Acts (Paul/For the body of Christ) Romans 1, 2 Cor Galatians Ephesians Philippians Colossians 1, 2 Thess 1 Timothy 2 Timothy Titus Philemon (Law/For Israel) Hebrews James 1 Peter 2 Peter 1 John 2 John 3 John Jude Revelation Luke 21:36 escape is not about the rapture, it's about Israel in the last 3.5 years (Rev 12:6, 14).

iam, please tell me you can make the connection. if not we have a problem... Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Rev 4:11 "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." Rev 5:6-8 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. Rev 5:12-13 In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” 13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" Rev 6:1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” Rev 6:10 They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

Thank you for trying to tackle such a mysterious subject. You are commended Joe. I wrote this to a friend.. "If there's peace and safety (1 Thess 5:3) in the first 3.5 years for Israel then where do the first 6 seals land? The moon turning blood red in the 6th seal vs the moon not giving its light in Matt 24 could be on two different time lines, two different kinds of eclipses. That means the 6th seal would have to come to pass around mid trib. Could the first 5 seals be for the Gentiles and the world and not for Israel?"

This day hasn't come yet. It's the last 3.5 years of the 70th week, the great tribulation.. Joel 2:2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come. Matt 24:21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again. Notice this army is mentioned in Joel 2, Ez 38 and Rev 9.

Yes! The first 3.5 years is peace and safety, then the antichrist reign and Ez 38 will begin at mid trib. 1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. Jer 30:6 Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? Joel 2:1-7 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming. It is close at hand— 2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come. 3Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste— nothing escapes them. 4They have the appearance of horses; they gallop along like cavalry. 5With a noise like that of chariots they leap over the mountaintops, like a crackling fire consuming stubble, like a mighty army drawn up for battle. 6At the sight of them, nations are in anguish; every face turns pale. 7They charge like warriors; they scale walls like soldiers. They all march in line, not swerving from their course. The connection to horses being present in the 70th week and His second coming are found here... Notice that Micah 5:3 mentions being in labor who bears a son. Did you know that the sign of the woman in labor in Rev 12:1-5 came to pass on 9/23/17? Ez 38:15 You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army. Micah 5:2-4, 10 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." 3Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son, and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites. 4He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. And they will live securely, for then his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth. 10 "In that day," declares the LORD, "I will destroy your horses from among you and demolish your chariots. Zech 12:2-4 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. Zech 14:15 A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps. Joel 2:1-7 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming. It is close at hand— 2a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was in ancient times nor ever will be in ages to come. 3Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste— nothing escapes them. 4They have the appearance of horses; they gallop along like cavalry. 5With a noise like that of chariots they leap over the mountaintops, like a crackling fire consuming stubble, like a mighty army drawn up for battle. 6At the sight of them, nations are in anguish; every face turns pale. 7They charge like warriors; they scale walls like soldiers. They all march in line, not swerving from their course. Rev 9:16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number. Rev 14:20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia. Rev 19:17-18 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Gog and Magog will already be destroyed by the time Jesus lands on the mount of olives with His saints, Ez 38:18-23 and Ez 39:1-6. The saints coming down from heaven on white horses occurs prior to the great supper of God (the birds eating the bodies of Ez 38-39), read Rev 19:14-18. The clean up process will take seven months, via the Israelites burying bodies with the help of birds and wild animals taking care of the rest. While all this is going on Israel has begun burning weapons for seven years, Ez 39:9. The clean up process from Ez 38-39 will be long and tedious, but thankfully Satan will be bound for a 1000 yr, Rev 19:19-21 and Rev 20:1-3. Ez 39:11-20 “ ‘On that day I will give Gog a burial place in Israel, in the valley of those who travel east of the Sea. It will block the way of travelers, because Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So it will be called the Valley of Hamon Gog. 12“ ‘For seven months the Israelites will be burying them in order to cleanse the land. 13All the people of the land will bury them, and the day I display my glory will be a memorable day for them, declares the Sovereign Lord. 14People will be continually employed in cleansing the land. They will spread out across the land and, along with others, they will bury any bodies that are lying on the ground. “ ‘After the seven months they will carry out a more detailed search. 15As they go through the land, anyone who sees a human bone will leave a marker beside it until the gravediggers bury it in the Valley of Hamon Gog, 16near a town called Hamonah. And so they will cleanse the land.’ 17“Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: ‘Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. 18You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls—all of them fattened animals from Bashan. 19At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. 20At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind,’ declares the Sovereign Lord. Rev 19:14-18 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: 17And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

I certainly agree. It could have dual fulfillment however, considering they're surrounded by angry ISIS. How else will Israel obtain more land if not from defeating the Psa 83 foe's. I see them obtaining more land in Ez 38-39, via Sheba (S.W. Arabia) and Tarshish (a port on the Mediterranean).

Thank you Gibbus. Have a good day.

Well let's start with Ez 38:8, "recovered from war" I believe is describing Psa 83 in the Grace dispensation. Ez 38:8 After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. Geographically speaking, I don't believe Judea is a part of Sheba (S.W. Arabia) or Tarshish (a port on the Mediterranean). By this time, Israel will have obtained more land from Psa 83. The Ishmaelites I believe is Arabia in Psa 83. Ez 38:13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all her villages will say to you, "Have you come to plunder? Have you gathered your hordes to loot, to carry off silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods and to seize much plunder?"' If memory serves me correct, I believe there's quite a few islands in the Mediterranean. Ez 39:6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands (islands), and they will know that I am the LORD. Ez 39:17-20 is also a description of Rev 19:17-18 at the end of the 70th week, via the birds. Ez 39:17-20 “Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: ‘Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. 18You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls—all of them fattened animals from Bashan. 19At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. 20At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind,’ declares the Sovereign Lord. I'm also thinking that the peace treaty in Dan 9:27 was an act of unfaithfulness towards God. Ez 39:26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. - Heb

Yup, Zech 8 could have past and future fulfillment in the 1000 yr. Growing old won't exist on the New Earth however, because aging and death won't exist. Isa 65 is talking about the actual New Heavens and New Earth after the 1000 yr. I believe Isa 65:20 is using metaphorical or I guess allegorical language to describe what eternity will be like, which is beyond words really. The New Earth will consist of believers in Christ only who will reign with Christ for eternity and beyond, with also healing. "The leaves of the tree were for the health of the nations. So, the leaves were like medicine. This shows that there will be no lack of health. The life to come will be plentiful and perfect. The leaves of the tree help all people to enjoy life." https://www.easyenglish.bible/bible-commentary/revelation-lbw.htm Rev 22:1-5 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

I believe God actually placed the timing of this war into scripture, via the birds at the great supper of God at the end of the 70th week. (Ez 39:4, Rev 19:17-18) 1. Ez 38 begins at the abomination of desolation 2. Peace and safety in first 3.5 years allows Israel to be with unwalled villages 3. Peace and safety in first 3.5 years gives Israel the decision to rebuild the third temple 4. Ez 38 is this sudden destruction in 1 Thess 5:3 at the abomination of desolation 5. Ez 39 takes place at the end of the 70th week 6. The birds eat the flesh of the dead bodies left after Ez 39 is over 7. Ez 39:2-4 comes prior to Ez 39:9 8. So Israel burns weapons for the first 7 years of the 1000 yr reign Ez 38:11-12 You will say, “I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars. 12I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations, rich in livestock and goods, living at the center of the land. ” Ez 39:2-4 I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. 3Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. 4On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals. Rev 19:17-18 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.” Ez 39:9 “ ‘Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel.

I'm thinking that the believers in the Grace period and in the 70th week obtain immortality and incorruptible bodies through first resurrection and rapture. Those who are born in the 1000 yr who become believers obtain immortality and incorruptible bodies at the Great White Throne. Resurrections and immortality I believe go together. Matt 25 could have dual fulfillment, at the end of the 70th week and the end of the 1000 yr. The eternal punishment (Matt 25:46) however would take place at the Great White Throne. Matt 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Rev 20:3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. Rev 20:7-8 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. Technically, believers are going to be made priests unto God and will rule with Christ. Are we going to minister and rule over ourselves or non believers... Rev 1:5-6 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. Rev 2:26-27 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father. Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Well, the first resurrection takes places at the beginning of 70th week and also the end at His Second Coming. 2 Cor 5:10 is for believers only prior to 70th week. (dead and alive) The book of life is also mentioned inside the 70th week Rev 13:8, Rev 17:8. The Great White Throne is not the Bema seat in 2 Cor 5:10. Rev 20:5 says the rest of the dead come to life at the end of 1000 yr The Thousand Years, The Judgment of Satan and The Judgment of the Dead are chronological. They're chronological because the vision John saw of the GWT includes the lake of fire. All non believers are thrown into the lake of fire all at once, judgment for them is not separated by years.

All nonbelievers who have died prior to the 70th week, and also believers and nonbelievers that have died inside the 1000 yr.

I call it harpazo. We're not going to escape it? Hmm.. Luke 21:36. Tribulation in the grace period is not the great tribulation in the last 3.5 years of the 70th week when 5th seal is opened. These are two different dispensations. That's right, a born again believer has nothing to fear, even death itself. Believers are also out of here before the 70th week begins.