Heb 13:8

A Side Note: I do believe epairó and harpazo have two different meanings and exegesis. Jesus wasn't caught up, He was lifted (raised) up because at that point He had defeated the devil. He didn't need to be obtained by robbery because He won. The church however does need to be obtained by robbery, because of the red dragon. We need Jesus help. epairó 1. to be lifted up, not a rescue 2. Jesus ascended slowly in victory from the devil harpazo 1. to be snatched away, rescued 2. The church will be snatched away quickly, from red dragon epairó: to lift up Original Word: ἐπαίρω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: epairó Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ahee'-ro) Short Definition: I raise, lift up Definition: I raise, lift up. harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away Original Word: ἁρπάζω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: harpazó Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo) Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

A Side Note: If Rev 12:1-5 were pointing to the birth of Christ 2,000 years ago it would read like this.. Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Mary) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Mary) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Herod) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Herod) stood in front of the woman (Mary) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (huios Jesus Christ himself) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (huios Jesus Christ himself) was lifted up (epairó) to God and to his throne. But it doesn't, rather it reads like this.. Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne. Also, Jesus lived for 33 years before ascending to heaven. Rev 12:5 has the child being snatched up to God's throne right away. Isa 26:17-21 As a pregnant woman about to give birth writhes and cries out in her pain, so were we in your presence, Lord. 18We were with child, we writhed in labor, but we gave birth to wind. We have not brought salvation to the earth, and the people of the world have not come to life. 19But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. 20Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. 21See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_18?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+book+of+esdras&sprefix=the+book+of+Esdras%2Caps%2C161&crid=3S7CB4UTHIKV4 While no other text can claim this same unique authority, Apocryphal and Pseudepigraphal literature such as contained in the first volume of The Researchers Library of Ancient Texts (Volume One—The Apocrypha: Includes the Books of Enoch, Jasher, and Jubilees; also available on Kindle), provides literature that often precedes or follows the chronology of biblical texts, which frequently are used or assigned as supplemental works within academic settings to help students and scholars discover or better understand cultural and historical context within the Word of God. Whether or not the information contained in the apocryphal literature is entirely precise—as is the canon of Scripture—these ancient texts provide commentators’ valuable insight into what many ancient Jews and early Christians believed when, “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets” (Heb. 1:1). "First Esdras contains the whole of Ezra with the addition of one section; its verses are numbered differently. Just as Ezra begins with the last two verses of 2 Chronicles, 1 Esdras begins with the last two chapters; this suggests that Chronicles and Esdras may have been read as one book at sometime in the past. Ezra 4:6 includes a reference to a King Ahasuerus. Etymologicaly, Ahasuerus is the same as Xerxes, who reigned between Darius and Artaxerxes...in 1 Esdras, Cyrus the Great, Darius the Great, and Artaxerxes I appear in their historical order." --Wikipedia The Books of Esdras (1 & 2) are available in The Researchers Library of Ancient Texts (Volume One—The Apocrypha: Includes the Books of Enoch, Jasher, and Jubilees; also available on Kindle), as well as The Book of Enoch, The Book of Jasher, The Book of Jubilees, 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Tobias, Sirach, Wisdom, Judith, Baruch, Susanna, Prayer of Azariah, Prayer of Manasseh, Bel and the Dragon, and Laodiceans. - Thomas Horn 2 Esdras 16 (labor pains) http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjva/2-esdras/16.html 37 The disasters are approaching rapidly, and they will not be delayed. 38 A woman in the ninth month of pregnancy may suffer labor pains for several hours, but when the time comes for the baby to be born, there is no longer any delay. 39 In the same way, the disasters that are coming on the earth will not be delayed, and the world will groan when it is caught in its labor pains. 40 Listen to my message, my people, and get ready for the battle. When the disasters come, you must live as people whose home is not in this world.

Hi Daniel 11:36, I do believe Rev 12:1-5 is also future. It only occurs once in Stellarium in 7,000 years on 9/23/17. - Heb 13:8

Gotcha. Best wishes. - Heb 13:8

I will pray for your awakening RM. God bless.

That's right, God's control of the universe is not Divination because it's from God. Rev 12:1-5 is in the Word of God. RM, this sign takes places in the heavens where the stars, sun, moon and planets reside. If this isn't the sign, then when or how do you see it being fulfilled?

God controlling the constellations is divination? I don't think so RM. It's dangerous to ignore this, but I guess we all have free will. After rapture, God's focus will be back on the Jews.. Micah 5:2-3 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." 3Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son, and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites.

God is in control of the constellations. That's just a fact of life, lol. I've asked you like multiple times how you see Rev 12:1-5 being fulfilled in the heavens without Virgo and Jupiter as key players. Still no answer. and yet, others have gone back 7,000 years in Stellarium and only once does this alignment occur. your professor's a hack. You mean the wondering stars that fulfill the crown? https://www.google.com/#q=why+are+planets+called+wandering+stars Wouldn't you also have to reject all 9 alignments.. 1. A great sign appeared in heaven: 2. a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, 3. with the moon under her feet 4. and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 5. Then another sign appeared in heaven: 6. an enormous red dragon (Satan) 7. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 8. She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” 9. And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne. Notice how the word "teknon" is used twice in verse 4 AND 5. Why is this word used twice if this sign is not about the church?

How else will Rev 12:1-5 be fulfilled without the stars, Virgo and Jupiter?? Job 38:32 “Can you lead forth a constellation in its season, And guide the Bear with her satellites? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgo_(constellation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_(constellation) So why can't this hack Professor find this alignment four times in Stellarium? Really?

Yeah yeah, Rev chapter 4-5 is rapture. This is why Israel is giving birth to the church in September, before the seals open. Did you know that believers receive crowns at the Bema seat right after rapture. Rev 4:4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. Rev 4:10-11 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say: 11"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

Yes, and he be very very confused.

Rev 12 sign is in the word of God RM, it's astronomy not astrology. Job 38:32 is asking God a question. Does RM know the answer? Let's find out. Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south. Job 38:31-32 "Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades, Or loose the cords of Orion? 32"Can you lead forth a constellation in its season, And guide the Bear with her satellites?

Why would I listen to someone who thinks the Rev 12 sign is astrology.

If the church is not rescued, the dragon will devour us RM. Notice the word "teknon" in Rev 12:4-5. Verse 4 AND 5. Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne. Rev 12:1-5 is astronomy because it's in the Word of God. GOD is in control of the heavens. Wake up! Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years. Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south. Job 38:31-32 "Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades, Or loose the cords of Orion? 32"Can you lead forth a constellation in its season, And guide the Bear with her satellites? Psa 146:6 He is the Maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them-- he remains faithful forever. Amos 5:8 He who made the Pleiades and Orion And changes deep darkness into morning, Who also darkens day into night, Who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the surface of the earth, The LORD is His name.

Rev 7:9-17 is just a continued vision of Rev chapter 4-5 Spock.

I think Dan chapter 7-8 and 11-12 plays a part in the timing also.

The 3rd seal might be in connection to the mark of the beast in the last 3.5 years.

Indeed.

Well, we can eliminate the fact that the 7 seals have not been opened yet. Rev chapter 4-5 is the rapture of the church, and the rapture hasn't happened yet.

After 6 pages, do we know the timing of the seals, trumpets and bowls?

No He wasn't. He rose in victory. Why would He need to be snatched away suddenly? You really need to study your Greek RM. Harpazo and epairó are not synonyms. Harpazo and epairó are not synonyms. We won't have a physical body? Read 1 Cor 15:35-58 We actually do need to be rescued, from the red dragon that is coming upon the earth. Read Rev 12:3-4. I guess we will. Right, but Rev chapter 12 is a picture of the entire 7 years. Anti-Christ system = Red Dragon in Rev 12:3-4 The watchmen that are awake? I will! It's more than just the woman and dragon. Why do you think Virgo is giving birth to Jupiter in 4 months? Everyone and everything has its place in this sign. The 70th week also is in reference to a woman giving birth. The world is about to enter into the worst time in history, and everyone is asleep. It will be business as usual. I'm pretty sure it was because of Jupiter and Venus conjunction. RM, Virgo is the woman (the mother) and represents Israel. She is not crowned with brothers, that is silly. The word for rapture is harpazo. If this sign isn't rapture then how do you see rapture playing out? I'm curious. Oh please educate me then. Tell us how that day will come like a thief to believers. Ok, so what do they mean??

Right, and Jesus was not taken by force. Well you should care. The rapture is quick, Jesus ascension was not. Is the third heaven and God's throne just a few miles away? No. Actually, it's very relevant. No, He wasn't. He was epairó'd to heaven. Two different words, two different meanings. He wasn't raptured RM. He ascended in victory. He didn't need to be rescued. Rev 12 has nothing to do with Jesus birth 2,000 years ago. The head was already birthed, now it's time for the body. No it's not. It's a 7 year time frame, a detailed description of the 70th week. And the first event is the rapture of the church. The book of Revelation is not linear. Yes it is, "teknon" is always used corporately, and "harpazo" is only meant for the church in end times prophecy. 1 Thess 4:13-17 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne. Yes He is. He even deceives people into thinking the Rev 12 sign is false. Just like in Noah's day. They thought Noah was a lunatic, building a silly ark. Well, it will be because of the stars. How do you think the wise men knew about Jesus birth. The 12 stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel. Virgo the woman is representing Israel, not brothers. That's right, and the church will rule with him, Rev 2:26-27. No, that day comes like a thief to nonbelievers. Matt 24:37-39, 1 Thess 5:1-8. Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years. Only man condemns true believers and calls them all sorts of things, sort of like what you're doing here. Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

Actually, no He wasn't. He slowly ascended in victory. The rapture is a quick rescue, the complete opposite. Jesus didn't need to be rescued, He already defeated the devil. The church however does need to be rescued, from the red dragon in Rev 12:3-4. This is my point exactly. In Acts 1:9 the word for "he was lifted up" is "epairó". This word doesn't mean a quick snatching away. It's actually the opposite of "harpazo". That's true, but in the end times "harpazo" is meant for the church only in 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. This sign actually includes the stars, the seven stars of Pleiades. This sign also is found in Stellarium in 2024, towards the end of the 70th week. A vision that John had 2,000 years ago that is coming to pass on 9/23/17. Not sure why you're not getting this. No, the 12 stars crowning the woman's head represent the twelve tribes of Israel. Israel is also giving birth to the body of Christ. Israel is our mother in the sense that she gave birth to Christianity (the body of Christ) 2,000 years ago by putting Jesus to death. That is when the conception of the church began, at Pentecost. The church has been in gestation for 2,000 years bro. The baby has to come out sometime, no? In the end times Israel must give birth again so the church can change from corruptible to incorruptible seed. Read 1 Cor 15:50-54. Yes the head ascended, but the body is next RM. The male-child in Rev 12:5 consists of the head and the body finally being joined together. Jesus Christ along with the church will give authority and rule all the nations with an iron scepter.. Rev 2:26-27 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father. Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne. The body being connected to the head through rapture has everything to do with it. Brother, when it comes to the Rev 12:1-5 great sign there are two camps, the camp that is asleep and the camp that is awake. Just pray about it, I'm sure He'll show you. How will you know the season if you deny the Rev 12 sign?? Not knowing the day and hour is an idiom referring to the two day Feast of Trumpets, not knowing when the New Moon would appear. If we are surprised then that day will surprise us like a thief. Paul says that day will not surprise believers like a thief. Jesus commands us to wake up, so He doesn't come like a thief. Rev 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Right, and all the requirements for the sun, moon, stars and planets FULFILL Rev 12:1-5 on 9/23/17. We have four months left. I think you can download an app on your cell phone and see Jupiter in the womb right now. It's time to wake up! Well, it kinda makes sense that you deny the Rev 12 sign and are also non-osas. I'm really not surprised. Only the religious put true believers back under the law.