Quasar93

Hello MorningGlory, Thanks for your input. That you believe my above post is too long puzzles me. Since by your own statement, you did not read it. The subject does not pertain to the theme of our Bible, and is only an issue of many not covered in the Bible, of interest to some of us who seek answers to them. May I ask you why you even bother to participate in this issue, unless you disagree with what is being revealed about it? And may God Bless you. Quasar93

And then there was this discovery: 400,000 year old human DNA: The oldest human DNA ever recovered is throwing scientists for a loop: The 400,000-year-old genetic material comes from bones that have been linked to Neanderthals in Spain — but its signature is most similar to that of a different ancient human population from Siberia, known as the Denisovans.The researchers who did the analysis said their findings show an "unexpected link" between two of our extinct cousin species. Follow-up studies could crack the mystery — not only for the early humans who lived in the cave complex known as Sima de los Huesos (Spanish for "Pit of Bones"), but for other mysterious populations in the Pleistocene epoch."Ancient DNA sequencing techniques have become sensitive enough to warrant further investigation of DNA survival at sites where Middle Pleistocene hominins are found," the research team, led by Matthias Meyer and Svante Pääbo of Germany's Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, wrote in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. ("Hominin" is the currently accepted term for humans and our close evolutionary cousins.)As anthropologists are getting better at extracting DNA from ancient bones, genetic mysteries are cropping up more frequently: Last month, researchers at scientific meetings talked about not-yet-published findings that hinted at interbreeding among Neanderthals, Denisovans and previously unknown populations of early humans.A new standard The age of the mitochondrial DNA analyzed for the Nature study sets a new standard: Researchers used statistical analysis of the DNA and other samples to estimate that the material was roughly 400,000 years old. That meshed with the estimated age for similar DNA extracted from bear bones found in the same cave.More than 6,000 human fossils, representing about 28 individuals, have been recovered from the Sima de los Huesos site, a hard-to-get-to cave chamber that lies about 100 feet (30 meters) below the surface in northern Spain. The fossils are unusually well-preserved, thanks in part to the undisturbed cave's constant cool temperature and high humidity. For the complete article: http://www.nbcnews.com/science/400-000- ... 2D11690925 Quasar93

It's past time for you to wake up to the facts there are countless others who know and understand, we live on a very old earth, BESIDE me. The links I provided in my previous post is the tip of the iceberg, there is much more from where those came from. Quasar93

Providing scientific proof for Biblical teachings, seen only in the Scriptures as passing remarks connected with God's creation narrative, is not an evolution accommodation. But rather, an appeal to be awakened to historical scientific facts. See additional sources below: http://hope-of-israel.org/lifeadam.htm http://kjvbible.org/ Quasar93

The Bible and the age of the earth: It is rare in the creation/evolution controversy to find issues on which both creationists and evolutionists agree. Generally speaking, the two world views are light-years apart. But there is one thing on which both sides agree: evolution is impossible if the Earth/Universe-system is young—with an age measured in thousands, not billions, of years. R.L. Wysong has commented:Both evolutionists and creationists believe evolution is an impossibility if the universe is only a few thousand years old. There probably is no statement that could be made on the topic of origins which would meet with so much agreement from both sides. Setting aside the question of whether vast time is competent to propel evolution, we must query if vast time is indeed available (1976, p. 144).It is interesting to observe how something on which both sides agree has caused so much disagreement. Aside from the basic issue of whether creation or evolution is correct, the most serious area of conflict between the biblical and the evolutionary scenarios is the chronological framework of history—in other words, the age of the Earth. This matter is of importance not only to evolutionists, but to theistic evolutionists, creationists, and other “old-Earth creationists.” While a young Earth presents no problem whatsoever for a creationist, it is the death knell to each and every variety of the evolutionary scenario. A simple, straightforward reading of the biblical record indicates that the Cosmos was created in six days only a few thousand years ago. Opposed to that view is the idea of evolutionists that the Universe is 15-20 billion years old, and that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old. Further complicating matters is the fact that the biblical record indicates living things were placed on the newly created Earth even before the end of the six-day creative process (e.g., came on day three). The evolutionary scenario, however, postulates that primitive life evolved from nonliving chemicals roughly 3.5-4.0 billion years ago, and that all other life forms developed during the so-called geologic ages, with man arriving on the scene in one form or another 1-2 million years ago. Even to a casual observer, it is apparent that this is no small problem. Much of the controversy today centers on the age of the Earth. The magnitude of the controversy is multiplied by two factors. First, theistic evolution and progressive creation are impossible if the Earth is young. Thus, if the proponents of these views wish to retain their belief systems, it is imperative that they find a way to place the time for an ancient Earth in the biblical record. Second, there is no middle ground that will permit the old-Earth/young-Earth scenarios to coexist; the gulf separating the biblical and evolutionary views on the topic of the age of the Earth is just too large. As Henry Morris has observed:Thus the Biblical chronology is about a million times shorter than the evolutionary chronology. A million-fold mistake is no small matter, and Biblical scholars surely need to give primary attention to resolving this tremendous discrepancy right at the very foundation of our entire Biblical cosmology. This is not a peripheral issue that can be dismissed with some exegetical twist, but is central to the very integrity of scriptural theology (1984, p. 115).If the Earth is ancient, where in the Bible can the time be inserted to ensure that antiquity? The time needed to guarantee an old Earth might be placed: (a) before the creation week; (b) during the creation week; or (c) after the creation week. The attempt to insert geological time into the biblical text during the creation week is known as the Day-Age Theory—a concept that has fallen on hard times in recent years because it is completely without lexical or exegetical support from the biblical record (see Thompson, 1982, 1994). As a result, it has been rejected by numerous old-Earth creationists, theistic evolutionists, and progressive creationists. Rarely do those desiring to insert geologic time into the biblical record attempt to place the time after the creation week, for two reasons. First, placing time after the creation has occurred does not help the case of the theistic evolutionist or progressive creationist. Time “after the fact” is a moot issue. Second, the biblical genealogies (e.g., Genesis 5, Genesis 11, Luke 3, etc.) have the text so well protected that it is manifestly impossible to insert the billions of years of time needed to allow for an ancient Earth (see Thompson, 1989). Thus, the Bible believer intent on accommodating his theology to the uniformitarian dogma of an ancient Earth must find another way to force vast time spans into Genesis 1. The only option remaining is to insert the time before the creation week—a concept known as the Gap Theory. THE GAP THEORYPopularity of the Gap Theory (also referred to by such synonyms as the Ruin-and-Reconstruction Theory, the Pre-Adamic Cataclysm Theory, and the Restitution Theory) is generally attributed to the writings of Thomas Chalmers, a nineteenth century Scottish theologian. In recent years, the Gap Theory has undergone an “evolution” of its own, and for that reason is not easily defined. There are several variations, and its defenders do not agree among themselves on strict interpretations. However, a brief summation of its main tenets might be as follows. The widely held view among gap theorists today is that the original creation of the world by God, as recorded in Genesis 1:1, took place billions of years ago. The creation was despoiled because of Satan’s rebellion against God, resulting in his being cast from heaven with his followers. A cataclysm occurred at the time of Satan’s overthrow, and is said to have left the Earth in darkness (the “waste and void” of Genesis 1:2).[NOTE: It is alleged by some Gap theorists that the cataclysm occurring at Satan’s overthrow terminated the geologic ages, after which God “re-created.” It is alleged by others that the cataclysm occurred first, and then was followed by the geologic ages, after which God “re-created.”] The world as God had created it, with all its inhabitants, was destroyed, which, it is claimed, accounts for the myriad fossils present in the Earth. Many holding to this theory place the fossils of dinosaurs, so-called “ape-men,” and other extinct forms of life in this gap. Then, God “re-created” the Earth in six literal days. By way of summary, then, the “gap” between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 contains the story of an original creation, a judgment, and ruination, while the verses in Genesis 1:3 through the remainder of the chapter record the story of the Earth’s re-creation. Is the Gap Theory Popular? The Gap Theory has had, and continues to have, numerous supporters. George H. Pember, in Earth’s Earliest Ages (1876), advocated the Gap Theory. Harry Rimmer, in Modern Science and the Genesis Record (1937), helped popularize the theory. The renowned Canadian anthropologist, Arthur C. Custance, produced Without Form and Void (1970), which many consider the ablest defense of the Gap Theory ever put into print. George DeHoff advocated the theory in Why We Believe the Bible (1944). J.D. Thomas, former chairman of the Bible Department at Abilene Christian University, has stated that “no man can prove that it is not true, at least in part” (1961, p. 54). The popular Scofield Reference Bible was first published in 1909; by 1917, it contained a reference to the Gap Theory in the footnotes accompanying Genesis 1. In more recent editions, references to the theory may be found as a footnote to Isaiah 45. John Clayton has accepted major portions of the Gap Theory, but has added to and deleted from the theory to produce what has come to be known as the Modified Gap Theory (see Clayton, 1976, pp. 147-148; Thompson, 1977, pp. 192-194; McIver, 1988, 8[3]:1-23; Jackson and Thompson, 1992, pp. 114-130). Arguments Presented in Support of the Gap Theory Advocates of the Gap Theory base their beliefs on several arguments, a summary of which is given here; comments and refutation follow:1. Gap theorists suggest that the word bara (used in Genesis 1:1, 21, 27) must mean “to create” (i.e.: ex nihilo creation), while the word asah cannot mean “to create,” but rather means “to make.” Therefore, the original creation was “created”; the creation of the six days was “made” (i.e., “made over”) .2. Gap theorists suggest that the Hebrew verb hayetha (translated “was” in Genesis 1:2) should be rendered “became” or “had become”—a translation required in order to suggest a change of state from the original perfect creation to the chaotic conditions implied in verse 2. 3. Gap theorists believe that the “without form and void” of Genesis 1:2 (tohu wabohu) can refer only to something once in a state of repair, but now ruined. Pember accepted these words as expressing “an outpouring of the wrath of God.” 4. Gap theorists believe that the cataclysm that occurred was on the Earth, and was the direct result of Satan’s rebellion against God. The cataclysm, of course, is absolutely essential to the Gap Theory. Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:11-17 are used as proof-texts to bolster the theory. 5. Gap theorists believe that Isaiah 45:18 (“God created the earth not in vain”—tohu; same word translated “without form” in Genesis 1:2) indicates that the Earth was not tohu at the initial creation. Therefore, they suggest, Genesis 1:2 can refer only to a judgment brought upon the Earth by God. 6. Gap theorists generally believe that there was a pre-Adamic creation of both non-human and human forms—a position adopted to account for the fossils present in the geologic strata. By: Bert Thompson, Ph.D Revised here: http://docslide.us/documents/thompson-b ... earth.html. Quasar93

400,000 years old Human DNA prior to Adam found: The oldest human DNA ever recovered is throwing scientists for a loop: The 400,000-year-old genetic material comes from bones that have been linked to Neanderthals in Spain — but its signature is most similar to that of a different ancient human population from Siberia, known as the Denisovans.The researchers who did the analysis said their findings show an "unexpected link" between two of our extinct cousin species. Follow-up studies could crack the mystery — not only for the early humans who lived in the cave complex known as Sima de los Huesos (Spanish for "Pit of Bones"), but for other mysterious populations in the Pleistocene epoch."Ancient DNA sequencing techniques have become sensitive enough to warrant further investigation of DNA survival at sites where Middle Pleistocene hominins are found," the research team, led by Matthias Meyer and Svante Pääbo of Germany's Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, wrote in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. ("Hominin" is the currently accepted term for humans and our close evolutionary cousins.)As anthropologists are getting better at extracting DNA from ancient bones, genetic mysteries are cropping up more frequently: Last month, researchers at scientific meetings talked about not-yet-published findings that hinted at interbreeding among Neanderthals, Denisovans and previously unknown populations of early humans.A new standard The age of the mitochondrial DNA analyzed for the Nature study sets a new standard: Researchers used statistical analysis of the DNA and other samples to estimate that the material was roughly 400,000 years old. That meshed with the estimated age for similar DNA extracted from bear bones found in the same cave.More than 6,000 human fossils, representing about 28 individuals, have been recovered from the Sima de los Huesos site, a hard-to-get-to cave chamber that lies about 100 feet (30 meters) below the surface in northern Spain. The fossils are unusually well-preserved, thanks in part to the undisturbed cave's constant cool temperature and high humidity. For the complete article: http://www.nbcnews.com/science/400-000- ... 2D11690925 Quasar93

Overwhelming Evidence All the geological and paleontological evidence PROVES beyond the slightest scintilla of a doubt that THERE WAS A WORLD BEFORE ADAM. Most of the dating techniques of scientists -- uranium-argon, potassium-thorium, racemization and thermaluminescence -- as well as observation and logic conclusively show that the rocks under our feet, the bones of ancient animals, and even the charcoal campfires of Paleo-Indians, Neanderthal man, and other ancient hominid remains, are MUCH OLDER than 6,000 years. There was a world before Adam. In fact, there were MANY ages before Adam, and these ages can be carefully distinguished through the study of paleontology, paleo-ecology, and related scientific disciplines. The evidence is INDISPUTABLE. Many independent dating techniques demonstrate that various hominid creatures lived about 500,000 years ago. More primitive types lived as long ago as 1-2,000,000 years. Those creatures, in some cases, were FAMILIAR with fire, used crude chipped stone tools such as hand axes, notched and saw-toothed implements, scrapers, engravers. They were PRE-ADAMIC CREATURES living in a PRE-ADAMIC WORLD. A world which ended in a great catastrophe. And before their time, OTHER worlds existed. The world of the dinosaurs ended about 70,000,000 years ago. That world, too, ended in a cosmic catastrophe. The pre-Adamic world was a world of growth, change, and progress. It was a world where new life forms were introduced from time to time. The fact that this world has been in existence for many millions of years is no longer a matter for debate. It is academic. Any serious author, today, must face squarely the many indications of time found in the geological record. Neo-Creationists believe we must choose either the Bible or science, particularly scientific dating methods. One typical Neo-Creationist argues: "The Bible-believing scientist must face squarely the question, In the area of natural science which shall supersede, the clear assertions of God's inspired Book, or modern man's interpretation of what he thinks he sees in nature?" This particular author continues: "According to Bible chronology only a few thousand years have passed since the creation of the ancestors of our modern plants and animals...Contrariwise, if one accepts the assumption that the inorganic radioisotope clocks were reset wherever they became associated with fossil-bearing material, then apparently at least 600 million years have passed since plants and animals first appeared successively from that time over a duration of some 600 million years" (Frank Lewis Marsh, Life, Man and Time, pp. 67-68). The truth is, there is NO CONTRADICTION between the Biblical record and scientific knowledge of the earth's past. Those who wish to uphold the Bible in the face of new evidence regarding early hominids, homo erectus, homo habilis, or other discoveries of Primitive Man-like creatures, need not worry. There is NO EVIDENCE that such creatures evolved into Modern man. Rather, they lived long ago in a world BEFORE ADAM WAS CREATED -- another world -- another age -- another time. Such discoveries tell us much about the ancient history of the earth. They tell us nothing, one way or the other, about the Scriptures. Creation and Recreation In the pages of Genesis, as it relates to the original creation of the universe, we read the simple, matter-of-fact statement: "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1, King James Version). The Amplified Bible renders this verse: "In the beginning God (prepared, formed, fashioned,) and created the heavens and the earth." The Good News Bible states: "In the beginning, when God created the universe..." The Moffatt Translation: "When God began to form the universe..." The Goodspeed Translation: "When God began to create the heavens and the earth..." What exactly does the book of Genesis tell us? That YEHOVAH God created the universe -- the heavens and the earth -- in a period of time called, simply, "the beginning." How long ago that primeval creation occurred we are not told anywhere in the Scripture. To determine that, YEHOVAH God has given us brains and intellect! That time of beginning could well have been six to ten billion years ago. Astronomers calculate that a "Big Bang" took place at that time, out of which the entire cosmos was created. Verse two of Genesis, chapter one, continues: "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep" (King James Version). Is this verse describing the ORIGINAL creation as being formless and void? If so, it would seem a contradiction. Verse one tells us YEHOVAH created the heavens and the earth. When YEHOVAH creates something, it is beautiful, grand, and majestic. In the 38th chapter of the book of Job, we read: "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof? When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (vs. 4-7). If the original earth had been created a chaotic ruin, formless and void, the angels would not have "sang together" or have "shouted for joy." Isaiah 45:18 adds more light on this enigmatic passage. The prophet declares: "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else" (King James Version). The Hebrew word translated "vain" here is tohu and means "to lie waste," "a desolation," "a desert." It can also be translated "confusion," "empty place," "without form," "nothing," "wilderness." It is the very same word used in Genesis 1:2, where we read the earth "was without form." One place says YEHOVAH God created the earth and it "was without form"; in another place we read YEHOVAH did not create the earth "without form." Is this a contradiction? Not at all! The KEY to understanding this apparently complex problem lies in the little word "was." It can also be translated "BECAME." In fact, in Genesis 19:16 it is translated "became." We read: "And Lot's wife became a pillar of salt." What happened, then, is this: When YEHOVAH God originally created the earth, it was indeed a lovely place. He created it with no waste, no wilderness, no desolation. It was inhabited. The angels leaped for joy, and shouted with admiration and enthusiasm when they beheld the primeval earth. But then something happened. It became "tohu" -- that is, waste, a ruin, a desolation. The original earth suffered a great cataclysm -- a cosmic catastrophe. The Hebrew words translated "without form and void" in Genesis 1:2 literally mean a desolation, a wilderness, an empty, uninhabited ruin. These words, tohu and bohu are very strong words and denote CATASTROPHE. They strongly suggest that some sort of primeval cataclysm, or several such cataclysms, occurred. Destruction! Paroxysm! Chaos! Scripture gives no data for determining HOW LONG AGO the universe was created. And in the first chapter of Genesis, it only records THREE creative acts: 1) the heavens and the earth (verse 1); 2) new animal life (verses 20-21); and 3) human life, Adam and Eve (verses 26-27). The first creative act referred to the DATELESS PAST. The creation of NEW forms of animal life, and Adam and Eve, occurred approximately 6,000 YEARS AGO. Obviously, then, the first chapter of Genesis is not describing the original creation of the heavens and earth as occurring in seven consecutive days. After the chaos and destruction which occurred, in verse two of Genesis one, YEHOVAH God began a process of re-creation, reconstruction, if you please, which lasted for seven days. Verse 16 of Genesis one does NOT describe the sun and moon and stars being created on the fourth day. How could light have been created on the first day, but the sun and stars which IMPART LIGHT not till the fourth day? The original Hebrew for "made" in verse 16 actually means "made to appear, made visible." The sun and moon were created "in the beginning." The light came from the sun, of course, but the VAPOR in the earth's atmosphere diffused the light. After the great cataclysm, the earth was cut off from the light of the sun, moon and stars. Darkness prevailed everywhere. As verse two says: "And the earth was (BECAME) without form and void (TOHU and BOHU); and DARKNESS was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." What do we see then? An earth destroyed, in pitch darkness, covered by water, the continents submerged, due to some great cataclysm. During the process of RECONSTRUCTION or RE-CREATION, YEHOVAH God first caused the light from the sun to penetrate the atmosphere once again, in a DIFFUSED manner (Genesis 1:3-5), allowing day and night to become discernible. He created order in the atmosphere (verses 6-8). He caused the dry land to appear once again (verse 10). He caused the earth to once again bring forth life, plants, vegetation, of all kinds. As the turgid clouds and atmospheric disturbances cleared away, He caused the sun, moon and stars to once again become visible from the earth's surface (verses 14-18). Then, having REFASHIONED the surface of the earth, and having prepared it, YEHOVAH created NEW living creatures -- NEW animal life of all kinds, from great whales to small fish, from elephants to rodents, from flying birds to flying fish and insects -- to REPOPULATE the earth, and to REPLENISH it (verses 20-25). Something had happened to the Pre-Adamic earth. It had been overwhelmed in a MIGHTY CATASTROPHE, or a long series of catastrophes, which is briefly described in verse 2 of Genesis chapter 1. But what happened? The world before Adam came to an ABRUPT, screeching end. It was cut short by flooding and upheaval, stroke upon stroke of catastrophe. This one short enigmatic, much misunderstood verse of the Bible, contains within its cryptic message a story that will amaze you. This one little verse may hold a CLUE as to what happened to the earth, after the original time when it was created, beautiful, and to be "inhabited," and before the time of Adam and Eve, when it had to be refashioned, reshaped, refurbished, and rebuilt. This one verse, in essence, may cover a time span of MILLIONS of years. If YEHOVAH God originally created the earth six to ten billion years ago, and over millions of years created VARIOUS and sundry life forms, causing them to become buried in massive burials to form deposits of coal, peat, and oil and natural gas; if He spent millions of years preparing the world for the eventual time when He would create Man IN HIS OWN IMAGE [not some amorphous BLOB]; who are we to complain? Vast Periods of Time? Vast periods of time, and many successive ecological niches, had to exist in the earth, for algal reefs of hundreds of feet to grow in place. Much time was required for vast quantities of vegetation to live, grow, and die, and to become entombed, to create vast deposits of coal in Kansas, Oklahoma, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia and Pennsylvania. This vast period of time YEHOVAH put to good use. As Robert Macdonald shows, in a paper entitled Geology: "The fossil record contains hundreds of zones, each with its own particular faunal assemblage. What is the chance that such an invariant worldwide sequence of life forms could be built up if they all lived CONTEMPORANEOUSLY, and the sequence in which they are found were only a burial order? How could a burial order based not on water sorting, but on environments do the job?... "Suppose that in a worldwide catastrophe, one group of organisms were brought in from one area and deposited, then another assemblage from another area were deposited on top of that, and so on. A local sequence of life forms would be built up. But the chances would be against the deposition of fossils in the same order in a local sequence in another area. Consider the chance that the same order would occur in all sequences worldwide. It would be NIL! "There is NO WAY to account for the sequence in faunal succession by ONE catastrophe. Nor is there any way to account for this sequence by a SERIES of catastrophes, or by a LONG DRAWN-OUT catastrophe. If all these Paleozoic and Mesozoic organisms were contemporaneous, there would inevitably have been some mixing of early and late forms. "The ONLY explanation is that each geologic horizon does indeed represent a DIFFERENT time in the past during which a unique assemblage of life forms was living and being deposited in many parts of the world. Slow or incremental deposition is therefore essential to give time for worldwide changes in populations of fauna whose remains preserved as fossils vary from one stratum to another." During the geologic ages of the earth's past, life went on in a normal fashion for millions of years. Fossil reefs obviously grew in the place in which they are found. Standing trees, with their roots in place, tracks and trails both on land and on the sea bottoms, layer upon layer containing burrows and borings made by animals just as they do in the sea-bottoms today, all show that most of the geologic column was created OVER MILLIONS OF YEARS, not in the Flood of Noah's time, or some other isolated catastrophe. Although the record in the earth's strata clearly shows that great catastrophes did take place, in the earth's past, the record also shows that there were periods of millions of years in which no violent cataclysms occurred. During these calm, relatively nonviolent periods, great CREATIVE PROCESSES were going on. Cyclothems of coal were formed. As Macdonald points out, coal is commonly found in a sequence of beds called a cyclothem -- a cycle of beds repeated over and over again, perhaps dozens of times. Much time would be needed for such deposits to be made, one on top of another. For the rest of this article, go to: http://hope-of-israel.org/lifeadam.htm Originally edited by: John D. Keyser. Hope of Israel Ministries -- Preparing the Way for the Return of YEHOVAH God and His Messiah! This material is from: Hope of Israel Ministries P.O. Box 2186 Temple City, CA 91780, U.S.A. www.hope-of-israel.org See also: http://www.kjvbible.org/satan.html Quasar93

The teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church comes from the writings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, as recorded in the following: The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church: Mt.24:31: And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out. Lk.21:36: "Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." Jn.14:2-4 and 28: "In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4]. "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28]. The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies: "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years. 1 Thes.4:13-18: The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8. "We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14. "According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming. Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures. "For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16. "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28. "Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18. 2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church: "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine]. The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age. In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below. Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD. The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth]. Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given. "He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4. The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed: In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way." The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that: In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21]. The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8. From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures. Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5! The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church: http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf Quasar03

"Apostasia" in 2 Thess.2:3 means "departure": 2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church: "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine]. The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in verse 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age. In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below. Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD. The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth]. Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given. "He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4. The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed: In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way." The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that: In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21]. The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8. From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures." Quasar93

Hello Mary, I always thought it was David's son, Solomon, who had the many wives. Don't you think so too? "And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart." First Kings 11:1-3 indicates that King Solomon had 700 hundred wives and 300 hundred concubines, many from lands of which God had previously instructed the Israelites to avoid intermarrying. Quasar93

And what do they mean ? The way in which Jesus fulfilled the Jewish feasts is a fascinating study. In the Hebrew Scriptures, the Jewish prophet Amos records that God declared He would do nothing without first revealing it to His servants, the Prophets (Amos 3:7). From the Old Covenant to the New, Genesis to Revelation, God provides picture after picture of His entire plan for mankind and one of the most startling prophetic pictures is outlined for us in the Jewish Feasts of Leviticus 23. The Hebrew word for feasts (moadim) literally means "appointed times." God has carefully planned and orchestrated the timing and sequence of each of these seven feasts to reveal to us a special story. The seven annual feasts of Israel were spread over seven months of the Jewish calendar, at set times appointed by God. They are still celebrated by observant Jews today. But for both Jews and non-Jews who have placed their faith in Jesus, the Jewish Messiah, these special days demonstrate the work of redemption through God’s Son. The first four of the seven feasts occur during the springtime (Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Weeks) and they all have already been fulfilled by Christ in the New Testament. The final three holidays (Trumpets, The Day of Atonement, and Tabernacles) occur during the fall, all within a short fifteen-day period. Many Bible scholars and commentators believe that these fall feasts have not yet been fulfilled by Jesus. However, the “blessed hope” (Titus 2:13) for all believers in Jesus Christ is that they most assuredly will. As the four spring feasts were fulfilled literally and right on the actual feast day in connection with Christ's first coming, these three fall feasts, it is believed by many, will likewise be fulfilled literally in connection to the Lord's second coming. In a nutshell, here is the prophetic significance of each of the seven Levitical feasts of Israel: 1) Passover (Leviticus 23:5) – Pointed to the Messiah as our Passover lamb (1 Corinthians 5:7) whose blood would be shed for our sins. Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation for the Passover at the same hour that the lambs were being slaughtered for the Passover meal that evening. 2) Unleavened Bread (Leviticus 23:6) – Pointed to the Messiah's sinless life (as leaven is a picture of sin in the Bible), making Him the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Jesus' body was in the grave during the first days of this feast, like a kernel of wheat planted and waiting to burst forth as the bread of life. 3) First Fruits (Leviticus 23:10) – Pointed to the Messiah's resurrection as the first fruits of the righteous. Jesus was resurrected on this very day, which is one of the reasons that Paul refers to him in I Corinthians 15:20 as the "first fruits from the dead." 4) Weeks or Pentecost (Leviticus 23:16) – Occurred fifty days after the beginning of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and pointed to the great harvest of souls and the gift of the Holy Spirit for both Jew and Gentile, who would be brought into the kingdom of God during the Church Age (see Acts 2). The Church was actually established on this day when God poured out His Holy Spirit and 3,000 Jews responded to Peter's great sermon and his first proclamation of the Gospel. 5) Trumpets (Leviticus 23:24) – The first of the fall feasts. Many believe this day points to the Rapture of the Church when the Messiah Jesus will appear in the heavens as He comes for His bride, the Church. The Rapture is always associated in Scripture with the blowing of a loud trumpet (I Thessalonians 4:13-18 and I Corinthians 15:52). 6) Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:27) – Many believe this prophetically points to the day of the Second Coming of Jesus when He will return to earth. That will be the Day of Atonement for the Jewish remnant when they "look upon Him whom they have pierced," repent of their sins, and receive Him as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10 and Romans 11:1-6, 25-36). 7) Tabernacles or Booths (Leviticus 23:34) – Many scholars believe that this feast day points to the Lord's promise that He will once again “tabernacle” with His people when He returns to reign over all the world (Micah 4:1-7). Should Christians celebrate these Levitical feast days of Israel today? Whether or not a Christian celebrates the Jewish feast days would be a matter of conscience for the individual Christian. Colossians 2:16-17 tells us “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Christians are not bound to observe the Jewish feasts the way an Old Testament Jew was, but we should not criticize another believer who does or does not observe these special days and feasts (Romans 14:5). While it is not required for Christians to celebrate the Jewish feast days, it is beneficial to study them. Certainly it could be beneficial to celebrate these days if it leads one to a greater understanding and appreciation for Christ’s death and resurrection and the future promise of His coming. As Christians, if we choose to celebrate these special days, we should put Christ in the center of the celebration, as the One who came to fulfill the prophetic significance o : Faith of Israel, 2d ed See also: A Theological Survey of the Old Testament by William Dumbrell. Source: Unknown Quasar93

It is your responsibility to prove the evidence of an old earth I posted is false. The ducking and dodging you keep doing doesn't fly! Review the following for more evidence for an old earth age: IN AN AGE PRIOR TO THE SIX DAY CREATION THE EARTH HAD NO OCEANS The same way it will be when God creates the New Heaven and earth: Rev.21:1 }Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.” Pr.8:22 "The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24] NIV* when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world." [Vs 24-26] NIV* I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28] NIV* when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth.Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30] NIV* rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33] NIV* Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36] NIV For much more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/deeperwalk/pre-adam-human-bones-found-t3398529.html https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/deeperwalk/400-000-year-old-human-dna-t19401575.html Quasar93

The above remarks are the epitome of those with their heads in the sand and views cast in iron. Your claim the preponderance of proofs provided you are "alleged," is a joke and the kind of opinionated argument coming from you, as though the evidence in front of you is all false. You are the one who wants a discussion, but you have nothing to say, but personal opinion, from an empty wagon.. I have provided you the format, now field an argument of your views, with evidence for a young earth. Until you do, this is my final response to you on this issue. Quasar93

You labor under false pretenses. The facts in the articles I posted are the very same views as mine, or I would not have posted them. There is much more I could add to it, should it be of any further benefit. You have provided nothing but meaningless opinio, which I will no longer respond to, supporting your views of a young earth, as opposed to the preponderance of evidence to the contrary. Either field an argument for your views other than your ipinion, or this will terminate any further interfacing with you about it. Quasar93

I'm implying nothing, but rather, responding to your following remark: >>>Quote by Tristen: "Since this was a cut and paste job, I'm not going to waste time addressing specific comments as though they were yours to defend. I will say though, as a young-earth, Biblical creationist myself, that the author utterly misunderstands and misrepresents my position." The cut and Pastes I posted here on this thread came from my website where they have been for many years, which is part of the large data bank I have compiled over a 20 year period of time. The research and study presented within those articles remain, unchallenged. Quasar92

I have yet to see you prove your unsupportable opinions. Peove it. Quasar93

I have spent the better part of 20 years participating on Christian web sites, in which ten years were spent as an administrator, between two different sites over that period of time. In addition, I founded my own site a good many years ago. This terminates anything further I have to say about this issue. Quasar93

You are questioning my honesty and integrity in what I have posted and have all of my response you will get at this point! If you oppose the subject of this thread, then field an argument to that effect and cut out attacking me personally and how I use material I post here unless you are a mod or admin. Quasar93

GEOLOGY REVEALS: One Creation, One Restoration and Two Global Floods [Or one creation; destruction and restoration for days 1-4 and new creation for days 5-6] Here is startling proof -- from the Bible and geology -- demonstrating not only two widely separated creations, but two world-wide destructions! Few have understood this astonishing truth! Now, it stands revealed for all to see! Now for the first time, one of history's most fascinating stories can be told. The KEY to understanding the amazing history of the earth has been discovered. Contrary to what millions have been led to believe -- the true facts of science and the truth of your Bible agree! Theologians have long kept hidden this surprising truth. It conflicts with their theology. Atheistic professors have suppressed it. Science has refused to believe it. Only a few understand where the key which unlocks the amazing geologic history of the earth is. It has been in the FIRST TWO VERSES OF YOUR BIBLE all these years -- and you probably never noticed it..... Proof of Pre-Adamic Flood Notice the true facts of geology. The pre-Adamic catastrophe involved water. Laid down first by the swirling waters were the smaller sea creatures. They appear in the deepest sedimentary layers. The larger creatures of the land, by comparison, were able to flee to the higher hills. They were not drowned until the rising floodwaters spread over, then covered, the entire earth. Evolutionary geologists have discerned proof of this pre-Adamic flood. They know that rising floodwaters first swept up the ocean-bottom dwellers, the trilobites and the brachiopods, and other shell creatures of the sea. These ocean-bottom dwellers were scattered over wide areas. Later other sedimentary rocks with land life were laid down on top of them. That is exactly why fossils of sea creatures, such as the trilobite, SUDDENLY APPEAR as fossils in the DEEPEST sedimentary rocks. Not knowing the Bible reveals a pre-Adamic catastrophe destroyed all life, an amazed evolutionary geologist exclaimed, "... the SUDDEN APPEARANCE of ABUNDANT FOSSILS in the Cambrian {lowest rocks in which life is found} is remarkable" (Dunbar, "Historical Geology", p. 125). {Emphasis ours in entire article.} Why were these evolutionary geologists astounded to discover that complex fossils appear suddenly in the deepest sedimentary rocks? The theory of evolution has led the geologists to assume the older and deeper rocks were laid down over many millions of years. They assumed that in the deepest rocks they would find very simple fossil remains of evolving forms. Obviously, because of the theory of evolution they expected to find simple fossil forms that clearly showed the steps of evolution taking place. Because evolution has never taken place, they failed to find simple pre-trilobite forms! As the well-known evolutionary geologist Stokes said, "... we do not understand why fossils of marine invertebrates (without backbones) suddenly became plentiful ..." (Stokes, "Essentials of Earth History", p. 186) By L. E. Torrance. [Edit by Quasar: Scriptural facts supporting the above: Gen.1:2; 7:20; 8:3-5; Psalms 24:2; 2 Pet.3:5-6 and Proverbs 8:24]. "But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed." 2 Pet.3:5-6 NIV. From: http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/flood.htm Quasar93

What I cut from the Wikipedia is what I know fro 80 years of Bible Study and qualification from three Bible Colleges to teach the Bible, that it comes from a Christian source! I did not copy everything that was contained in the Wki article! Quasar93

My apology for the rtpos in my reply to you. Here is a corrected copy: >>>FYI, every scientific source coming from what I post, comes from believing Christians, like you and me. So forget about fielding an argument of guesswork that they are coming from non-believerxs attempting to prove anything other than God, created the universe!<<< You can be assured, everything I post here, are factual truths. Quassr93

Greetings, Tristen, If we refuse to read subject material facts contrary to what we have learned to accept, we relegate ourselves to a failure of ever learning the truth, do we not, my dear? Check out the following, for more on this issue: What happened to the Dinosaurs? Dinosaur Tracks, the almost homemade-looking sign says on the side of Highway 160 just west of Tuba City, Arizona, on the way to the Grand Canyon. The expanse of fossils and footprints, scattered throughout this portion of the Painted Desert on a Navajo Indian reservation, attests to a dramatic moment in Earth’s history. The site lies some miles north of an ancient meteoric crater, and the story seems relatively clear from the evidence left behind. Some footprints indicate running—confusion as traffic collided in the final moments of a chaotic world. Yet, the majority of the footprints seem to face the direction of the crater—as if these large reptiles were transfixed by a fiery display in the sky. The world around them was collapsing. Precipitation had muddied the terrain. When the meteor hit, scorching heat burst in all directions , baking this dinosaur community right into earth—the footprints, the eggs, the dung and even an almost-entire dinosaur skeleton—all of it fossilized just off this wilderness highway. Paleontologists have left the remains there, says one of the Navajo locals who guides tourists around, though all the finds have been documented. This desert museum is one of many sites that attest to the destruction of a majestic breed of animals. These imposing creatures have captured the imagination of many a young boy, and the story as to their extinction has perplexed paleontologists, scientists and evolutionists, who can only theorize as to how the “age of reptiles” came to an end. Mainstream Christians, on the other hand, are leery of all this dinosaur talk, fearing that—if scientists are right about these creatures’ existence—the Bible’s credibility could be forever extinguished. They assume the Earth is 6,000 years old, and that the Bible attests to that fact. This either causes them to ignore fossil evidence or to concoct outlandish theories that dinosaurs lived between Adam and the great Flood of Noah’s day. On this point, traditional Christianity needs to be corrected. If scientists knew this, perhaps they would be less likely to dismiss the Bible as some mythical text that weaves a tale of a world much younger than they believe to exist. Science would, in fact, see the answer to the age-old mystery as to what happened to the dinosaurs! After all, science should be based on all knowledge—of which the Bible is the foundation! Religion’s Errors The answer is in the first two verses of the Holy Bible, yet no one seems to acknowledge it! “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). No biblical evidence suggests that this verse documents an event from 6,000 years ago—to the contrary! Verse 2 states: “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” Other verses confirm that God did not create the Earth in this disarray. The phrase “earth was without form” actually means, in the Hebrew, the Earth became without form and void (see Genesis 19:26 where the same Hebrew verb is used stating how Lot’s wife became a pillar of salt). How much time passed between the creation of Genesis 1:1 and the ensuing destruction of the Earth’s ecosystem as noted in verse 2? Though the Bible does not tell us—it could have been millions or billions of years—it does tell us how the Earth came to be in such a state. Genesis 1:2-10 indicate that the Earth was covered with water and that no sunlight was able to pierce through the impenetrable, lethal atmosphere. What God embarked on, according to this account, was a re-creation. This is what the Bible states occurred 6,000 years ago. Earth was re-inhabited with life. Psalm 104:30 shows that God renewed the face of the Earth. Understanding this timeline allows for dinosaurs to have existed much more than six millennia ago. It is only when so-called Bible believers lock themselves into a 6,000-year-old world that they have trouble with dinosaurs. This gives birth to the erroneous notion that dinosaurs had to exist until the time of the great Flood—another Earth-wide destruction. A simple study into the account of Noah will show that he brought some of every kind of animal onto the ark (see Genesis 6:19-20). If dinosaurs had existed, they would have been on the ark—and still would have existed in large enough numbers to be documented throughout man’s history. Older Than 6,000 Years! The Bible talks about the Earth before the re-creation of Genesis 1:2. An account like Isaiah 14:12-15 sheds light on this: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell [Hebrew: sheol, meaning grave, pit or exile], to the sides of the pit.” The Bible tells of an impressive angelic creature that rebelled against God before the creation of Adam. His attempt to launch a coup against God’s heavenly throne resulted in his being thrown back down to the already-existent planet Earth. Jesus Christ confirmed this during His earthly ministry: “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven,” He said (Luke 10:18). Thus, unprecedented Earth-wide destruction ensued! The story of the Bible is not about a young Earth, but an ancient one that was literally impacted by the rebellion of a great archangel so many years ago. Any details about the Earth after the re-creation are vastly different than those of the pre-Adamic world. Instead of an age where colossal reptiles roamed a planet hostile to human existence, this new age shows foliage and fruits, gardens and grains, and a dominant supply of warm-blooded mammals. This re-creation was a different Earth in that sense—a new cast of animals, where mammals take center stage while cold-blooded reptiles are more of a sideshow. Of course, the reptiles are vital to the ecosystem, but their role of dominance and grandeur is gone. This world, after the ruins of Lucifer’s rebellion were repaired, is one completely suited for warm-blooded humankind, created in the image and likeness of God, to have dominion (Genesis 1:26). Man could not have dominated a world in the age of the Tyrannosaurus Rex or the Brachiosaurus. Nor could he have survived. The fruits and vegetables , the meat, and even the pleasant beauty and sounds of birds and flowers, were all created for the age of man. Global Catastrophes Whether they believe the Bible or not, scientists must admit that the Bible does plainly allow for the existence of a pre-Adamic Earth and ecosystem, and for the catastrophic destruction of that world. What they will not accept is that the evidence they have uncovered proves the Bible’s explanation to be the answer to this age-old mystery! The fossil record proves the biblical explanation. Scientists look at the remains of the pre-Adamic world (our term, not theirs) and see fossils buried in what they say is an evolutionary order. That is what they assume—finding, we might add, no transitional fossils between these layers. This is something that still stumps the greatest scientists! The world, in truth, was actually teeming with all sorts of life of varying sizes. When destruction rained down on the Earth, rocks were laid down suddenly. Those creatures close to the impact of a meteor would have been cremated and/or buried and baked near the surface, as can be seen near that spot in the Painted Desert. This great extinction wiped out old and young, eggs and elderly, small and large. No other explanation can account for such a dying off of these prehistoric life forms—particularly the dinosaurs, which, for example, disappeared in all regions of the world. It caused the extinction of air, land and marine reptiles. For those who believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God, this explanation gels with this divinely inspired text. (For more on this, request a free copy of our booklets Does God Exist? and The Proof of the Bible.) These reptiles did not evolve into mammals. They were obliterated. The so-called Cenozoic era—the age of man’s existence on Earth, where all vegetation and life enable human survival—began after God re-created the Earth. Cenozoic rock, because it represents the age of man, consists of an entirely different set of sedimentary layers and fossils than was laid down in the pre-Adamic destruction mentioned in Genesis 1:2. In these more recent layers, not surprisingly, fossils of the warm-blooded mammals associated with man’s world predominate. What geologists have found in Cenozoic rock is another mass burial of life. This can be traced back to Noah’s Flood, occurring about 1,650 years after the re-creation of the Earth. This worldwide catastrophe was not as severe as the pre-Adamic one, as sea life was not extinguished. Bible and Science Can Coexist Rather than proving evolution, the layers of fossilized rock attest to supernatural forces at work in nature: first, an earth without oceans or water in Pr.8:24, huge meteor and comet strikes, massive volcanic action and the ensuing catastrophic Earth-wide flood God started the six day creation with, according to Ps.24:2 and 2 Pet.3:5; the second Flood of Noah’s time and the separation and dividing of the continents of the earth in Gen.10:25.. Thus, there is no conflict between fossil record and biblical truth. Despite scientists’ attempts to ignore God and discard the Bible, the facts of science and God’s Word will always agree with and mutually amplify each other! From the February 2009 Trumpet Print Edition » Does Scripture account for the age of reptiles? By Ryan Malone Quasar93

Seems to me I gave you Jesus description of it along with it's meaning, which preempts anything Young has to say about it. Quasar93

Sheolhas more than one meaning; it is used by the Hebrew, to describe the grave, as you have shown in the above. Jesus has shown in His parable in Lk.16:19-31, the spirit/soul also goes to Sheol, after the death of the natural body/ See also, 1 Pet.3:18-20. Quasar93