The Barbarian

Dennis and Wilma. You missed them. I'm guessing there's a good reason you aren't providing any documentation for that claim.

"Actually dead" is your addition to God's word So no "actually dead?" That's what I told you. Notice that David used the same words. Are you claiming that David died and was resurrected? And yet David said: Psalms 30:1 I will exalt you, Lord, for you lifted me out of the depths and did not let my enemies gloat over me. 2 Lord my God, I called to you for help, and you healed me. 3 You, Lord, brought me up from the realm of the dead; you spared me from going down to the pit. You can't have it both ways. So which is it?

When you try to interpret "under heaven" as literal, you have accepted the ancient Hebrew conception of a flat earth with a solid domed sky. Why don't you just be honest and admit it? Is there anything in the Bible you actually believe? It happens and is observed constantly around us. No point in denial. Would you like me to show you some more examples?

Then it should be easy for creationists to build an ark, load it up with the requisite animals and people and let it float for a year to see what happens. We all know why they won't. Because you know what would happen. I'm merely pointing out that your revision of His word would not survive a test of your assumptions.

Then it should be easy for creationists to build an ark, load it up with the requisite animals and people and let it float for a year to see what happens. We all know why they won't.

There's an easy way to solve this problem; build an ark, load it up with the requisite animals and people and let it float for a year to see what happens. Creationist steadfastly refuse to do this. Fo reasons we already know.

You're still trying to fit reality with the ancient Hebrew ideas of the universe. That passage assumes a flat earth with a dome shaped sky with windows in it through which rain fell. Only one side of a spherical earth could be under heaven as the Hebrews considered it. You see, creationists, faced with the fact that the Ark would not have been even close to big enough to hold seven pairs (or two for unclean) of all the animals existing on the Earth today, suppose that there was some kind of hypersuperevolution that produced all the others in a few thousand years. You might want to read the YE John Woodmorappe Noah's Ark; a Feasibility Study. Woodmorappe showed that the ark would not have room for that many animals with food for a year. He suggested maybe 2000, "kinds" that evolved by hyperevolution after the ark landed. Seven. Only unclean animals were by twos. Is there ANYTHING in the Bible that you AGREE with?

Actually, we do. Wheat, for example, evolved over a few hundred years under human selection in pre-Hebrew times. Same as today. No. Individuals don't evolve. Populations do. Lack of evidence, among many other things. Imagination is no substitute for reality. Sorry. And one more unscriptural miracle to save your imaginary stories? Once you get to call in a miracle to cover every goof, any story is equally believable. You've just substituted animals for the boogeyman. C'mon.

No. "Actually dead" is your addition to God's word to make it acceptable to you. We know Jonah did not die. He used exactly the words David used.

I'm guessing there's a good reason you aren't providing any documentation for that claim. Dennis and Wilma. As you learned, the prediction wasn't more hurricanes, but stronger ones. Which we are now seeing. The period from 2000 to the present has been marked by several devastating North Atlantic hurricanes; as of 2023, 79 tropical or subtropical cyclones have affected the U.S. state of Florida. Collectively, cyclones in Florida over that period resulted in over $236 billion in damage, most of it from Hurricane Ian.[9] Additionally, tropical cyclones in Florida were responsible for 145 direct fatalities and at least 92 indirect ones during the period. Eight cyclones affected the state in both 2004 and 2005, which were the years with the most tropical cyclones impacting the state. Every year included at least one tropical cyclone affecting the state. The strongest hurricane to hit the state during the period was Michael, which made landfall in Florida as a Category 5 hurricane–the strongest since Andrew in 1992. Additionally, hurricanes Charley, Ivan, Jeanne, Dennis, Wilma, Irma, Ian, and Idalia made landfall on or otherwise impacted the state as major hurricanes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida_hurricanes And this is why people are finding that they can't get insurance for their Gulf Coast property. It's not scientist predictions; it's that losses have been so severe that insurers can't afford to write business there. Coastal properties at risk of becoming uninsurable – report Continued heightened storm activity scaring off carriers Property damage caused by tropical storms, particularly tropical cyclones like hurricanes, has been on the rise in the country, leading to significant insured losses since the early 1990s. This upward trend has raised concerns about the availability and affordability of insurance coverage. As the private insurance sector grapples with these increasing losses, there's a growing reliance on government programs, such as the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) and Florida's Citizens Property Insurance Corporation. https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/catastrophe/coastal-properties-at-risk-of-becoming-uninsurable--report-464532.aspx Reality doesn't care what you find politically incorrect.

The 2005 Atlantic hurricane season was the most active year on record until surpassed by 2020. It featured 28[1] tropical or subtropical storms. The United States National Hurricane Center[nb 1] named 27 storms, exhausting the annual pre-designated list, requiring the use of six Greek letter names, and adding an additional unnamed storm during a post-season re-analysis. A record 15 storms attained hurricane status, with maximum sustained winds of at least 74 miles per hour (119 km/h). Of those, a record seven became major hurricanes, rated Category 3 or higher on the Saffir–Simpson scale. Four storms of this season became Category 5 hurricanes, the highest ranking. The four Category 5 hurricanes during the season were: Emily, Katrina, Rita, and Wilma. In July, Emily reached peak intensity in the Caribbean Sea, becoming the first Category 5 hurricane of the season, later weakening and striking Mexico twice. In August, Katrina reached peak winds in the Gulf of Mexico but weakened by the time it struck the U.S. states of Louisiana and Mississippi. The most devastating effects of the season were felt on the Gulf Coast of the United States, where Katrina's storm surge crippled New Orleans, Louisiana, for weeks and devastated the Mississippi coastline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Atlantic_hurricane_season The 2006 Atlantic hurricane season was the least active in the basin since 1997, with nine named storms as well as an additional unnamed tropical storm identified by the National Hurricane Center. 2006 was the first season since 2001 in which no hurricanes made landfall in the United States, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Atlantic_hurricane_season The 2007 Atlantic hurricane season was the first season since 2003 to feature tropical activity both before and after the official bounds of the season. There were an above-average number of named storms during the season – 15, however many storms were weak and short-lived. Despite the predominance of weak systems, this was the first season on record to feature more than one Category 5 landfalling hurricane. This would not happen again until 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Atlantic_hurricane_season The 2008 Atlantic hurricane season was the most destructive Atlantic hurricane season since 2005, causing over 1,000 deaths and nearly $50 billion (2008 USD) in damage.[nb 1] The season ranked as the third costliest ever at the time, but has since fallen to ninth costliest. It was an above-average season, featuring sixteen named storms, eight of which became hurricanes, and five which further became major hurricanes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Atlantic_hurricane_season The 2009 Atlantic hurricane season was a near-average Atlantic hurricane season that produced eleven tropical cyclones, nine named storms, three hurricanes, and two major hurricanes.[1][nb 1] It officially began on June 1 and ended on November 30, dates that conventionally delimit the period of each year when most tropical cyclones develop in the Atlantic basin.[3] The season's first tropical cyclone, Tropical Depression One, developed on May 28,[4] while the final storm, Hurricane Ida, dissipated on November 10.[5] The most intense hurricane, Bill, was a powerful Cape Verde-type hurricane that affected areas from the Leeward Islands to Newfoundland.[6] The season featured the lowest number of tropical cyclones since the 1997 season, and only one system, Claudette, made landfall in the United States. Forming from the interaction of a tropical wave and an upper-level low, Claudette made landfall on the Florida Panhandle with maximum sustained winds of 45 mph (70 km/h) before quickly dissipating over Alabama. The storm killed two people and caused $228,000 (2009 USD) in damage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Atlantic_hurricane_season The 2010 Atlantic hurricane season was the first of three consecutive very active Atlantic hurricane seasons, each with 19 named storms. This above average activity included 12 hurricanes, equaling the number that formed in 1969. Only the 2020 and 2005 seasons have had more, at 14 and 15 hurricanes respectively. Despite the high number of hurricanes, not one hurricane hit the United States making the season the only season with 10 or more hurricanes without a United States landfall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Atlantic_hurricane_season The 2011 Atlantic hurricane season was the second in a group of three very active Atlantic hurricane seasons, each with 19 named storms, only behind 1887, 1995, 2010, and 2012. The above-average activity was mostly due to a La Niña that persisted during the previous year. Of the season's 19 tropical storms, only seven strengthened into hurricanes, and four of those became major hurricanes: Irene, Katia, Ophelia, and Rina. The season officially began on June 1 and ended on November 30, dates which conventionally delimit the period during each year in which most tropical cyclones develop in the Atlantic Ocean. However, the first tropical storm of the season, Arlene, did not develop until nearly a month later. The final system, Tropical Storm Sean, dissipated over the open Atlantic on November 11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Atlantic_hurricane_season After striking Cuba at Category 3 intensity on the Saffir–Simpson hurricane wind scale, the hurricane moved ashore the southern coastline of New Jersey. Sandy left 286 dead and $68.7 billion worth of damage in its wake, making it the fifth-costliest Atlantic hurricane on record, behind only Hurricane Maria in 2017, Hurricane Katrina in 2005, Hurricane Ian in 2022, and Hurricane Harvey in 2017. Collectively, the season's storms caused at least 355 fatalities and about $71.6 billion in damage, making 2012 the deadliest season since 2008 and the costliest since 2005. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Atlantic_hurricane_season The season's overall impact was minimal; although 15 tropical cyclones developed, most were weak or remained at sea. Tropical Storm Andrea killed four people after making landfall in Florida and moving up the East Coast of the United States. In early July https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Atlantic_hurricane_season Although every named storm impacted land, overall effects were minimal. Arthur caused one indirect fatality and $16.8 million (2014 USD)[nb 2] in damage after striking North Carolina and becoming the first Category 2 hurricane to make landfall in the United States since 2008's Hurricane Ike, and its remnants moving across Atlantic Canada. Hurricane Bertha brushed the Lesser Antilles but its impacts were relatively minor. Three deaths occurred offshore the United States and one fatal injury was reported off the coast of the United Kingdom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Atlantic_hurricane_season The 2015 Atlantic hurricane season was the last of three consecutive below average Atlantic hurricane seasons. It produced twelve tropical cyclones, eleven named storms, four hurricanes, and two major hurricanes.[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Atlantic_hurricane_season How could anyone say there were no hurricanes in this period?

King David wites: Psalms 30:1 I will exalt you, Lord, for you lifted me out of the depths and did not let my enemies gloat over me. 2 Lord my God, I called to you for help, and you healed me. 3 You, Lord, brought me up from the realm of the dead; you spared me from going down to the pit. This does not mean King David died, and it does not mean that Jonah died. You merely added that idea to His word for your own desires. C'mon. Do you not see that the whale saved him from drowning? He had fallen to the depths of the sea about to drown,when the whale came in and saved him. God was not done with him and had a job for him to do in Nineveh. God was determined that the people of Nineveh would repent, and Jonah was His instrument. He would not cast aside the instrument until his purpose was fulfilled. And when Jonah called on the Lord for help, the whale safely returned him to land. Which is how we know Jonah did not die. He used exactly the words David used.

But you invented something because you took one verse out of context, ignoring that the same thing, used elsewhere in scripture made it clear that it did not mean the person was dead. Actually, Jonah wrote that God took him up from the place of the dead. And kind David says that God brought him up from the place of the dead. So you're still trying to tell us that David had died and was resurrected? Now you're pretending I made a different argument: I'm pointing out that David and Jonah said God brought them up from Sheol; obviously, they didn't die, but they were saying that they were saved from death. And you pretended I was arguing that Sheol was not a place of the dead. You probably can avoid being dishonest, but you let your anger override you common sense. I showed you that the phrase was used by others as being saved from death: But you invented something because you took one verse out of context, ignoring that the same thing, used elsewhere in scripture made it clear that it did not mean the person was dead. You should have just learned from scripture and moved on. Instead, you tried to make it appear that I said something I did not. It's a very bad idea to try to use God's word to be deceptive.

If you had not take scripture out of context, you wouldn't have denied God's word. But you invented something because you took one verse out of context, ignoring that the same thing, used elsewhere in scripture made it clear that it did not mean the person was dead. King David wites: Psalms 30:1 I will exalt you, Lord, for you lifted me out of the depths and did not let my enemies gloat over me. 2 Lord my God, I called to you for help, and you healed me. 3 You, Lord, brought me up from the realm of the dead; you spared me from going down to the pit. This does not mean King David died, and it does not mean that Jonah died. You merely added that idea to His word for your own desires. C'mon.

King David wites: Psalms 30:1 I will exalt you, Lord, for you lifted me out of the depths and did not let my enemies gloat over me. 2 Lord my God, I called to you for help, and you healed me. 3 You, Lord, brought me up from the realm of the dead; you spared me from going down to the pit. This does not mean King David died, and it does not mean that Jonah died. You merely added that idea to His word for your own desires. C'mon. Do you not see that the whale saved him from drowning? He had fallen to the depths of the sea about to drown,when the whale came in and saved him. God was not done with him and had a job for him to do in Nineveh. God was determined that the people of Nineveh would repent, and Jonah was His instrument. He would not cast aside the instrument until his purpose was fulfilled. And when Jonah called on the Lord for help, the whale safely returned him to land.

Or humans evolving resistance to disease or ability to live at high altitudes, both of which are documented. Evolution is a natural phenomenon, created by God do do His will in this world.

Again, you revised scripture to fit your wishes. You shouldn't do that.

It's the word of God. He does not lie. What you added that is not in scripture is that the entire earth was flooded. The Bible says "land" (erets). It does not say "world" (tevel). Be content with His word as it is. You shouldn't be changing any of it.

You aren't God, and you don't speak for God. But you don't and you attack it constantly, pretending your revisions are God's word. It's very noticeable. Please stop it. God's word tells us the creation story "days" are not literal ones. Your modern revision says they are. You don't agree with God. What you added that is not in scripture is that the entire earth was flooded. C'mon. Why not just accept it God's way? Set your pride aside and just let it be the way God tells us.

And the Bible is the word of God. You aren't God, and you don't speak for God. So long as you keep that fixation, you'll be upset with those who follow His actual word.

Because you say so? Only God knows, and you aren't God. This is why you keep trying to put works in His mouth. And the Bible is the word of God. No version of the Bible is God. And you shouldn't worship any of them. Have some humility.

You already learned that's not true. St. Augustine, for example, showed long before that, that the "days" of creation could not be literal ones. No, you refused to believe what Augustine found. But he's got a much higher regard among Christians than you do. For good reason. Augustine also said that if new information came up that showed our interpretations to be wrong, we should be willing to accept it and adjust our interpretations. Nice try, though. I know how much you want to believe that. But the vast majority of the world's Christians don't agree with you. Maybe they're not all out of step with God. Maybe you are. You're not necessarily a heretic, I think you're just so programmed that you can't see anything but what you've been conditioned to see.

It always surprises me how so many creationists have so low an opinion of faith that they use it as an accusation. They envy science, which works on evidence, accusing scientists of thinking as they do. They should have some faith in faith.

God said that he created Heaven and Earth in a day. You think that's one literal day? We'll know about you, when you answer the question. So what will it be? That excuse won't work for you. Genesis 2: 4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth: 5 And every plant of the field before it sprung up in the earth, and every herb of the ground before it grew: for the Lord God had not rained upon the earth; and there was not a man to till the earth. Your problem is that there are two different accounts of creation, with different times when things were created. You flip back and forth between them, trying to get them to fit together.

This is how we know you have no idea about the evidence. God said that he created Heaven and Earth in a day. You think that's one literal day? We'll know about you, when you answer the question. So what will it be?