Joulre2abba

On 5/6/2021 at 12:44 PM, missmuffet said:

It pertains to the book of Revelation which I see a lot false teaching on Worthy. But it can also pertain to the whole Bible. 

11 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

Did you know that Japan has made realistic robot women and believe that men can fall in love with them. and they will become the perfect wife having children. Right out of Stepford wives. Check it out. 

They use their technology to make sure that those robots are anatomically correct? Medical science has difficulty with human women having children so it's a big stretch (pardon the pun) for a robot to be outfitted with working wombs and the human physical systems that get involved to have a bun in the oven from sperm to term. Seems easier for the man to just marry a human woman and hire out the robots as a surrogate womb who will self-cesarean at the right time.

But anyway.. it's a remote similarity to what Daniel prophesied about concerning what amounts to a golem in the Jewish mind.

19 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Revelation 22: 18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

Are you using that text to indicate that it applies to the entire Bible?

The foolish things confound the wise.

On 8/14/2020 at 9:53 AM, ladypeartree said:

TWO TOUGH QUESTIONS

Question 1:
If you knew a woman who was pregnant,
Who had 8 kids already,
Three who were deaf,
Two who were blind,
One mentally retarded,
And she had syphilis,
Would you recommend that she have an abortion?

Read the next question before looking at the response for this one

Question 2:
It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote counts.
Here are the facts about the three candidates.

Candidate A:
Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with astrologists,
He's had two mistresses,
He also chain smokes
And drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day.

Candidate B:
He was kicked out of office twice,
Sleeps until noon,
Used opium in college,
And drinks a quart of whiskey every evening.

Candidate C:
He is a decorated war hero.
He's a vegetarian,
Doesn't smoke,
Drinks an occasional beer, And never committed adultery.

Which of these candidates would be your choice?

Decide first .. No peeking, and then scroll down for the response.



Candidate A is Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Candidate B is Winston Churchill.
Candidate C is Adolph Hitler.

And, by the way, on your answer to the abortion question:


If you said YES, you just killed Beethoven.

Pretty interesting isn't it?
Makes a person think before judging someone.

Remember:

Amateurs ... Built the ark.
Professionals .. Built the Titanic

Abortion doesn't best deal with any of the problems mentioned because getting rid of the innocent baby is murder, and it wouldn't stop the woman from continuing to get pregnant and then have more abortions.

I'd recommend the children be adopted by kind and loving parents who can financially see to the needs of each child. I'd recommend that the woman be sent to a physician to get medical assistance to be rid of the syphilis. And I'd also recommend she be sent to a kind and loving church who will teach her to be morally virtuous.

All problems gone.

-----

I don't vote for world leaders based on their personal vices, I vote based on a discerning that they would or would not be competent to be a good leader of the nation. The vices can be prayed about. 

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Amateurs didn't build the ark on their own knowledge, but as God directed. It did not fail in it's purpose to keep safe all within it. It landed safely and all disembarked alive and well.

Those who built the Titanic built it ambitiously, thinking that it was unsinkable, having no idea that an iceberg would cut through the metal like a knife through butter. As a matter of fact, all of the "tan" ships sunk., almost like there was a curse upon all of them.

The big passenger boats nowadays do better don't they?

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The Light: Trump is absolutely a Cyrus type. No question about it. He is here to help the nation of Israel in addition to helping America.

But if you think that Trump is going to be the 8th King that is healed from a mortal wound, with a sword, you are mistaken. Trump is not the Antichrist. You need to cast off these teaching that have been around forever and a day.

You write a lot like Revelation Man does. Did either of you teach the other?

I did not at any time say or hint that Trump was going to be the Antichrist. You've made a mistake in thinking that I have.

Calling Trump "a Cyrus type" does not automatically make him "the lawless one". The biblical lawless one, the son of perdition, according to 2Thes.2 cannot even be revealed until after "He that restrains is taken out of the way" then the lawless one, is the only one who will be revealed, the only one who can become the Antichrist.

__

The Light: You need to cast off these teaching that have been around forever and a day.

I can't cast off what I'm not saying in the first place.

The Light: The king of the North will not come from the Seleucid Empire.

I've said that it's my speculation that the lawless one will come from one of the EU nations. You are the one that is obsessed that the king of the North will have something to do with it, so you are only correcting yourself.

Also, there is not even the slightest chance that Syria is the King of the North, nor is Egypt the King of the South. Do you really think that these are superpowers that have come against each other TWICE, and will come against each other again. Look around. Who do you think that the King of the North is?

You tell me, you are the one who introduced them into the discussion. I only gave a quote as to who the king of the North is. That doesn't mean that I believe that he will be the Antichrist. That's your idea.

__

The Light: The daily sacrifice will be taken away in the MIDST of the week, on day 1185. The abomination of desolation will not be set up until day 2475.

Your number 1185 isn't enough days to equal 1260 or 3.5 years. And your 2475 number goes beyond both numbers in the Daniel 12 text. So you need to explain why your numbers would be right.

The abomination of desolation will occur at the MIDST of the week.

Nothing new for me to know.

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The Light: Yes, Cesare was considered God on earth and that distinction was transferred to the Pontifex Maximus of the Roman Church. And yes, Alexander the Great was considered God on earth, as was the Pharaoh of Egypt and others also. These are not myth religions, they are false religions and their source is from Babylon.

Then inform the Bible scholars and many Christians who call them pagan myths. But a false religion would be, for instance, Buddhism.

The Light: Babylon where Nimrod is the sun god, and Semiramis is the moon god and Tammuz is the star and the reincarnation of Nimrod. When Tammuz was killed by a wild boar, there became a 40 day time of weeping that is today known as Lent.

Eze 8

14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

The Jewish Temple historically was in certain times controlled by pagans and their idols. As such were the youths who mocked the prophet in calling him baldhead.

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The Light: You are confusing things. The prince that shall come is the 7th king that has two horns like a lamb. He is a king of the North.

Historically the Seleucid king was prior to Babylon, then Medio-Persia, then Greece, then Rome. The revived Rome being the EU. If you believe that it will be the king of the North then explain why.

He will likely become the head of the United Nations as he is given the stephanos crown. The little horn is the eighth king and is of the seven. The eighth king will be head of the world wide 10 kings.

Up until now you hadn't been so explicit until I said it first. All that you said previously was that it will be the king of the North. Full Stop. Revelation Man did that sort of thing too.

Neither the 7th or 8th kings comes from the EU. This is another old teaching that has been passed down. It comes from this verse.

Dan 9

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

That verse doesn't mention the king of the North at all. It does speak of a prince. Historically it was the Roman Emperor Titus in 70AD.

So goes the teaching that since the Romans destroyed the 2nd Temple that would mean that the Antichrist is a Roman. Completely wrong. The prince that shall come is A King of the North and the Temple that the people of the prince destroy is the 3rd Temple, not the 2nd Temple. So cast aside all the Roman stuff and read what the Word says.

So we are to cast aside history that tells us who destroyed the 2nd Temple because you say that it wasn't him that did it. Then you say that it will be the king of the North of the Seleucid Empire that will destroy the 3rd Temple. Even though the text of Daniel 9 doesn't say that it will be him. Even as you chide by saying "read what the Word says".

But your words in this discussion show that you are supplying what isn't in the text.

__

The Light: The mortal wound has already happened. We know that because the 8th king comes out of the bottomless pit.

Rev 17

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

We also know that the Beast of the Sea, the eighth king WAS AND IS NOT at the time that Revelation was written.

Rev 17

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

The key words of the Bible, shall & yet will come, indicate that it has not happened yet, but to the contrary your words, already & yet is, state it as an accomplished fact.

The chapter 17 can't happen until first occurs chapters 4-5 in heaven then chapters 6-16 on the earth.

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The Light: Nimrod is the Antichrist.

You didn't mention Nimrod until after I did first.

He is the beast that was and is not that has the mortal wound of the sword and will live.

Not literally. It is appointed unto men once to die, and then the judgement. Nimrod will not be some zombie resurrected man returned to live in future as Antichrist. 

He will be the eighth king that is of the seven. The Antichrist will come form the Seleucid Empire, as you mentioned.

You are confusing what I said versus what you said. I said he'd come from the EU, you said he'd come from the Seleucid Empire.

But he is not the King of the North as that is the 7th king.

Now you contradict yourself. You said that he'd be the king of the North., now he say that he won't be.

FYI, they found the tomb of Nimrod in northern Iraq in 2012. Northern Iraq is located in the area of the Seleucid Empire. You ought to be able to do the math from here.

None of that is relevant to what I've said. I'm not accepting what you say. The EU is a conglomerate of nations with ten leaders, the EU calls itself a union but they have of late shown themselves to be separating like iron and clay. So far, Britain has severed itself from the EU. And Italy is rumored and reported to be next. There will remain to be just one more as described in Daniel concerning three that are rooted out.

Iraq is not a part of the EU nations. Iraq is geographically in the Middle East. They don't have an iron & clay situation. They don't have any ten leaders nor are any nations separating from them.

 

On 9/7/2020 at 12:32 AM, The Light said:

Cyrus was not a Godly man, but God used Him for His purpose. The is no prince of Cyrus type. There is a 7th king and he will be A king of the North. The 7th king is the prince that will come and cause the daily sacrifice to cease. He is AN antichrist and the rider of the white horse that will be given the stephanos crown, meaning he will become the leader of the U.N. It is the eight king that has the mortal wound of the sword and lives again. He was, and is not and will come again. So the deadly wound has already happened and he will rise again.

The Cyrus type being President Trump is according to the Jews, since he arranged for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem, they have petitioned him to assist them in building the next Temple. That historically is what Cyrus did.

The king of the North (Daniel 11) is of the Seleucid Dynasty. Syria is to the North of Israel. Egypt is to the South, of the Ptolemaic Dynasty.

The lawless one of future, according to Daniel will arrive and broker a peace agreement "confirm a covenant with many for one week", aka the 7yr Tribulation. Then in the middle of that week/7yrs, cause the daily sacrifices to cease when he takes the seat in the Temple and declares himself to be God.

We know from a well known actress that the New Age teaches it's adherents that they are a god. We also know from history, and from the Bible, that the pagan myth religions of Rome and Greece had emperors who called themselves gods.

I agree that the "little horn" will become the leader of nations, but I specifically believe that he will come from one of the EU conglomerate. At a time when it's his turn to be President over the EU, he will have a workable solution concerning a then issue regarding the Jews of Israel. And so the EU and the UN make him their ruler over all the world. During that time he will get a mortal wound, die, then live again. At that time he'll go into the Temple and declare himself God. That is the abomination of desolation. The Jews will flee Jerusalem, and the Antichrist will rule like Nimrod did. That is the "he was, is not, and will come again".

The deadly wound has not already happened in this timeframe. These events I've outlined will happen during the 7yr Tribulation in our future. 

RESPONSE TO REVELATION MAN

Dan.12:7 ".. and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time.."

Revelation 12:6 mentions 1260, equal to (42 months, Rev.13:5), equal to 3.5 years. Such timestamps were not mentioned in previous chapters, therefore Chpt 12 marks the midpoint of the 7yr Tribulation. That is the time of introduction of the Antichrist/Beast (12:4).

So it's not "30ds after 1290", it's 30ds added to 1260 which makes 1290ds. As of Rev.12:6 the 30 extra days did not yet occur.

Daniel 12:11 mentions 1,290 days, however, which is 30 days more than the second half of the tribulation. [There is no explicit text stating when or what happens in those 30 days] Different ideas have been put forward to explain what happens in those 30 extra days. One likely theory is that the land of Israel will be rebuilt in that month after the devastation it endured during the tribulation. https://www.gotquestions.org/tribulation-1260-1290-1335-days.html

Dan.9:27 concerns itself with sacrifices made during the 70th week/7yr Tribulation. Which has not begun yet but still remains to occur in our future. Jesus was crucified on the cross around 30/33 AD, around 2000 yrs ago. So the Tribulation sacrifices are animal and/or meal sacrifices.

Read the link provided concerning the Abomination of Desolation. See also Rev.6 in connection with Jesus' words in Mat.24:15 "When you see the Abomination of Desolation which was spoken of through Daniel (9:27) the prophet, standing in the Holy Place [refers to the Temple].."

The Temple standing in Jesus day was destroyed in 70AD. There is no Temple now, therefore in the Mat. text, Jesus indicates that a third will be built during the 7yr Tribulation. In order for the sacrifices to be of meaningful significance, they must be done with a standing Temple furnished with all OT furnishings inside the Holy Place, as well as priests and high priests to officiate the sacrificing process.
The priests are a different office than a prophet, one man cannot be both. The priests do their intercessory function on behalf of the covenant people to cover their sins. The prophet is a seer, and a mouth for God.

*RM: The Jews REPENT before the Day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 13:8-9 says so.

My response follows these scriptures.

Malachi 4:5-6
5 "See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents;
or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction."

The following verses are connected to the Malachi text.
Luke 1:17
"And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

(Luke 1:17, where the angel Gabriel quotes part of the passage, and applies it to John the Baptist) - Pulpit Commentary @ Biblehub.

The Jewish leadership rejected Jesus therefore He said in
Luke 13:34
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."
Mat.23:37-38
37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me.
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."
Zechariah 13:8-9
7 Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, against the man who is My Kindred, declares the LORD of Hosts. Strike the Shepherd, [Jesus crucified] and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn My hand against the little ones.
8 And in all the land, declares the LORD, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it.
9 This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'

The text does not say that they will repent before the day of the Lord. This time that we are living now is 'before the day of the Lord'. It did not begin in the first century (2 Thes.2:2) It has not come yet.

*RM: you have misconstrued the John 5:43 verse as being END TIMES,

Then you contradict yourself because you admit that the Jews accept false Messiahs.

John 5:43
43 have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

The Jews did accept men as Messiah before the time of Jesus (the OT Cyrus), and did accept men as their Messiah after Jesus went to heaven to sit at the right hand of God. Rabbi Akiva proclaimed Bar Khokbah as their Messiah. And others after him.
They will likewise also accept the lawless one as their Messiah because he brokers a peace agreement and they build the third Temple and begin their sacrifices. These things are confirmed in Dan.9:27.

*RM: The 1/3 of the Jews who REPENT, Flee Judea at the AoD sign, which gives them 30 days to flee Judea.

Read the url-link I provided for a response concerning the 30 days.

*RM: they are the 144,000 which really just means ALL Israel,

The Revelation text doesn't say that. The 144,000 do not represent all Israel. Rev.7:3 states that the 144,000 are given a seal on their foreheads because they are bondservants of God.
The apostle Paul called himself a bondservant (Rom.1:1-4). So the 144,000 are Messianic Jews who receive Jesus as their Messiah.

*RM: or 3-5 million Jews, according yo how many have returned to the homeland by the very end times, because 1/3 Repent and 2/3 will perish.

When one third repents and two thirds perish, there is no remaining third left.

*RM: read Zechariah 13:8-9.  

Zechariah could refer to the 144,000 but only pertaining to their new position, since what significance is it for Jews to proclaim their God in clearly a specific case in Zech.13:9, yet all Jews already acknowledge Elohim as their God?

*RM: the 10 Brides represent all of Christendom.

The parable of Jesus of the ten virgins, 5 are wise and 5 are foolish. There are no ten brides. The whole Church Body is THE Bride of Christ.

*RM: in Rev. 2:10 it says you will have tribulation for 10 days (that means the WHOLE Church Age).

Rev.2:10 says "some of you". That doesn't mean all Christians.

My speculation: It's only those identified with the Church at Smyrna and what Jesus said to them. Those who die would experience the resurrection of Rev.20:6. Therefore there will be Smyrna believers living within the time of the 7yr Tribulation.
What the Bible indicates: Those Christians of the doctrines and theologies in accordance with the Church at Philadelphia and what Jesus said to them, so being those who hold to the pre-trib rapture.
When that rapture occurs, afterwords there will be other Christians (only called 'the saints' after the end of Rev.3) who live through the 7yr Tribulation. They could be the Smyrnas to be hunted down and put in prison for 10 days then be martyred (12:11).

*RM: The Fractured Roman Empire becomes 10 Kings......or whatsoever the number is over that 1500-2000 some odd year period of time, after Rome falls, unless God was speaking about after Israel fell, thus there could be NO BEAST over Israel, hence the 1500-2000 year identification point.

In 1946 Churchill called for a United States of Europe. The EU has been building since then and was relatively in union, but are now only recently showing their divisiveness or fracturing, with one nation, Britain, so far which has exited.

According to news media, there is rumors and reports that some other nations will also exit. Such as Italy. They are already refering to it as Italexit.
This prompts me to, since news of Italy so far, to be strengthened in my proposal that Daniel's vision (Dan.7:8) of the three that depart from the Beast of ten is correct.

*RM: Either way, the 10 represents the Fractured Kingdom, be it 1 with Rome, maybe 5 kingdoms 1500 years ago, maybe 19 kingdoms 1000 years ago, maybe 15 kingdoms 500 years, or the 27 Kingdoms now, counting England, or 26 kingdoms when they leave the E.U.

The EU are the ten. The EU is the revived Roman Empire. It is because of it's recognized Draconian use of power to control it's own national members. But like iron and clay that don't unify, can't unify, one has broken away and others are seriously pursuing breaking away.

*RM: The 10 simply represents the Fractured Kingdoms that could not come back together as one, even via Royal Marriage (SEEDS OF MEN in verse 41 or 42) and even by Wars. Only when Israel was Reborn did they come back together, from the 1950's to the 1970's.

Israel is not reborn. But God's prophecy of the Olive Tree budding was fulfilled in 1948.

17 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

It's not theology that states the prince of the covenant will be destroyed by the king of the north. The prophecy states he will in this verse. 

 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-22.htm

Why are you avoiding this verse which states both the overwhelming army and the prince of the covenant will be destroyed by the king of the north? 

Or are you ignoring it because it interferes with your theology? 

As for Trump moving the US embassy to Jerusalem. We understood that decades ago. Trump will soon give Israel the use of our armed forces. They shall praise him even more. 

 

You are using eisegesis to arrive at your interpretation. By contrast every good Bible scholar available to check their commentaries on line who uses hermeneutics correctly has not come up with what you have. 

Your posts are amusing, but not accurate.

14 hours ago, enoob57 said:

This cannot be proven by the text itself and to place assumption upon God's Word is a dangerous thing....

You have mistaken the text to be literal. The word "like".. as in like a flame.. clearly indicates that it was not literal. Yet you have assumed that it was. Therefore you are the one practicing a dangerous thing..

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On 8/16/2020 at 11:22 AM, Markesmith said:

Charismatic?

speak in tongues?

why is the no flame over your head?

Peter didn't ask that when those in Acts 10 spoke with tongues. Neither did Jesus say in Acts 1:8 that everytime the Holy Spirit would come upon believers that the flame would be over their heads. Jesus was baptized when the Holy Spirit came upon him like a dove. Did a dove go with him everywhere?

At the Pentecost event the Holy Spirit sat upon them like a flame. There was no literal flame. Not over their heads. But in their hearts. The flame is metaphoric to a cleansing of their hearts. As it says in Acts 15:8-9.

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Thanks for your reply.

just wondering, what if the man of sin is revealed at the abomination of desolation?  In truth, isn’t this when he becomes THE BEAST pursuant to Rev 13?  I think so....

So, why can’t you have rapture just before abomination of desolation, assuming this can be the big reveal?

The man of sin is revealed as that at the abomination of desolation. The first 3.5 years he's like a Messiah to the Jews. Because he supports them in making the third Temple, even as Cyrus supported them concerning the previous Temple. Their standards for accepting a Messiah is not all that strict. Therefore they've accepted false Messiah's. One of them led a group to jump off a cliff just because he told them that God would keep them from getting crushed and die. I suspect that the man was directly influenced of the devil because during the temptations of Jesus the devil suggested that Jesus jump because God would send his angels to keep him from getting hurt. So, if the Jews had believed in Jesus as their Messiah, they'd have read Matthew and known not to jump when the false Messiah told them to jump.

Revelation 13 is not one man, it's the whole enchilada. The entire empire made up of ten leaders. It could be describing the European Union. I know what you're going to say.. there's more than 10 nations. But not all 27 nations are leader nations. Do an indepth study on the EU.

The text of 2 Thes. 2 tells why the rapture of the church HAS to be before the Tribulation can start. (sorry if you already know this, but I don't know if you do) It is started when the lawless one makes a covenant with many for one week. One week is a prophetic week of years. That makes seven days in a week to be speaking from the prophecy of Daniel, seven years.

The lawless one CAN'T come on the scene to make a covenant with many unless the Church who restrains his coming, is taken out of the way.

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

How convenient of you to ignore the prince of the covenant is destroyed by the king of the north. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-22.htm

You need to make up your mind if the Jews except the king of the north or if they except the prince of the convenant who is to be destroyed by the king of the north. 

 

The difference is day and night. Donald Trump has moved the US embassy to Jerusalem and Supreme leader Ali Khamenei wants to kill every jew in Israel. 

Which one do they except? 

I said nothing. Nothing about the king of the North. You have assumed that I did so that's egg on your face for not asking first.

I have no idea why you think that the prince who brokers the covenant would be killed by the king of the North. Your theology. Not mine.

If you want to argue with someone then do so with any article on the internet which identifies the king of the North and the South.

[search engine results- - The Seleucids (king of the North) and the Ptolemies (king of the South) The two major powers that existed to the south and north of Jerusalem after the death of Alexander the Great were Egypt to the south (with its kings referred to as ) and Syria to the north (with its kings referred to as or Antiochus).]

Here is from Daniel 9 which I haven't strayed from at any time that I've spoken of the lawless one, or of the antichrist. So your claim that I need to make up my mind etc, is all your mistake not mine.

Daniel 9.. The prince aka the lawless one, who in the midst of the 7yr Tribulation becomes the antichrist, is only destroyed by Jesus at His Second Coming as stated in Revelation 19:20.

May 13, 2018.. The Jews have expressed profound appreciation that finally an American President Donald Trump has moved the US embassy to Israel's capital Jerusalem. He did not require a peace agreement with nations before he did it.

I have no idea why you'd think that anything I posted says that I think the Jews should accept Khamenei.

 

3 hours ago, Spock said:

Greetings my brother, 

Fair enough....but who deemed the entire 7 year week (Daniels 70th) a time of God’s wrath?  According to Revelation only 3.5 years (42 months, 1260 days) is the time of wrath. 
 

I think pre tribbers made the entire 7 years a time of wrath based on conjecture and inference, not on the word of God.  Maybe they are right, but then again, maybe not. Can you show me where God’s wrath is 7 years from the Word?  Can you show me why the church can’t commingle with Jews in “a part” of the week?  Admittedly, I do not believe the church will be here for sure in the final 3.5 years, known as the GREAT TRIBULATION. 

Not all pre-tribbers believe exactly the same thing. The first 3.5 years is a time of relative peace between the Jews and all nations. It's not until the prince Cyrus type as I and also some Christians call him, gets a deadly wound and recovers, that he shows himself to be the fully evil antichrist. And that remaining 3.5 years is the Great Tribulation or, the wrath.

And the 2 Thes.2 area is why Christians will not be on the earth during any of the 7 yr Tribulation. It states that the Church, identified as He that restrains, shall be taken out of the way and then the lawless one, the Cyrus type, is revealed. That means that he can't step into the prophetic proverbial light of the stage until the Christians are raptured, because the church is the restrainer of the devil's works which can only start after he who restrains is gone. If it helps, it's like the saying. When the cats away, the mice will play.

10 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Scripture does not say the Jews except the prince. Scripture says the prince will come and destroy the city. 

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/9-26.htm

What in the world ever made you think they would except the prince who wants to destroy them all? 

How convenient that you totally ignore Daniel 9:27 which comes after vs.26 Obviously they will accept. You can't use vs26 to say that vs27 won't happen.

So that's how I can say it. Because vs.27 does.

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

With 1,3 billion followers who trust their father on earth.

On a general basis we can speculate, but we cannot judge the hearts of every Catholic concerning their sincere trust in Christ because only the Lord knows those who are His. And they can't with any biblical authority judge the Protestants because we don't believe all things that they do. As church history passed tells us that they excommunicated the Protestants who didn't accept their unbiblical doctrines.

 

Why do you want the church to mingle with the Jews? Why do you want the church to go through the Tribulation along with the Jews?

This is now the church age of grace.

The Tribulation is not the church age of grace.

It's a time of wrath. The apostle Paul wrote that the chruch is not destined for wrath.

On 8/21/2020 at 12:59 AM, R. Hartono said:

Those Arabs mercenaries were just slaves paid by their Roman master to assist the Roman troops.

 

I am aware of the historical reason why Protestants point to Catholic leadership. I see why they would promote their world religion intentions. And the dark version of Catholic system of the Catholic leaders prophecy can be the reason that it will prevail during the Tribulation, and it could well include the instrumentation of or just indulge in the "Sodom" aspect in Israel.

On 8/21/2020 at 7:22 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

The prince is referring the the prince of the covenant. That is Supreme leader Ally Khamenei whom world leaders made a covenant with. It is his people who will take Jerusalem along with the nations who join him. 

After they have taken Jerusalem the US nukes them all. 

The Jews will not ever accept any Arab, Iranian, Iraqi ruler or make covenant with him. The Cyrus type person will be the one who makes possible for the Jews to rebuild their Temple. No Arab, Iranian or Iraqi will agree to them doing that.

However it will be the Arabs, Iranians or Iraqi's who will attack the Jews as they have always done. But when they do, either their own weapons will wipe them out, or the Israeli army will prevail. As Rev.6:12-17 says.

That could well be a strong reason why all world rulers agree for the Jews to build their Temple. Because the Arab opposition is gone and so through the Cyrus agreement, all other nations will no longer make war with Israel.

Why would it be thought that America would want to support Israel? It's the time of the Tribulation. All Christians will have been raptured before it begins. America will be in every state what it is now in certain states. They won't have a military army to organize on behalf of Israel because the remaining people in charge won't be supportive.  The army will be used to force the people to obey the leadership.

The Jews will be on their own. The overtaking of Jerusalem will be by the Jews trusting the Cyrus type to be their Messiah, they'll be willing to trade off certain things all in order to make animal sacrifices.. so it will be similar to the Roman occupation in the days of Jesus ministry.

Until the Cyrus type has a radical change to become the antichrist, and goes into the Temple and declares himself God. That is the abomination of desolation. The Jews hightail it out of the city and flee to the wilderness.

Leaving the antichrist to rule from the Temple. And set up his kingdom similar to Nimrod. Making everyone submit to "the mark of the beast" The city of Jerusalem will become "Sodom" (like the ancient empires of pagan sexual practices of anything goes) and "Egypt" (the pyramid society of elites that have all liberties and rule over the ordinary people who will have very little liberties).

I need to laugh and when the sun is out I got something I can laugh about because I can see clearly now the rain is gone and it's a bright sun shiny day... when it's not overcast and snowing, and the leaves on the trees haven't finished in all falling off... what is your hurry Snow.. making up for the last few years of barely snowing at all around here?! You've worked hard this time so why not call it a season and vacation in Tahiti? You deserve it. Meanwhile I'll put everyone around here on notice by putting up a "no snow" sign. They'll be disappointed but they'll get over it.

 

 

It's not so unexpected when a parent dies. But it's unexpected when a sibling dies in a car accident. We will all miss her, but we do not sorrow as those who have no hope, for we all know that we will eventually rejoin her in heaven. That's the far better place to be anyway.

I'm reminded of the song "If you could see me now". It's lyrics are a comfort, and a reminder of what heaven's like. As much as our departed ones love us, once they get to heaven, they wouldn't want to leave. We can't fault them for that.

Concerning carrying a Bible with me (other than on Sunday church attendance).. there was a time when I decided to take my Bible and some notes, I'd written down for personal Bible study with me to read through while I waited in the car for a family member while they kept their appointment with the doctor.

While I carried them to the car in preparing to leave, I suddenly had a thought that I, a Christian, was drawing attention to myself for carrying my Bible and study notes out in public..

I actually took them back into the house to leave them there.. because God forbid that I reveal to my neighbors that I tend to do Christian things like carry my Bible outdoors on a weekday with intent to have a private Bible study in the course of regular activities.. but then I thought.. no one was around to see me, and even if there was, why should I care what anyone would think?

I marched myself right back out to the car carrying my Bible and study notes. And I decided to change the topic of my Bible study to address freedom to practice my Christian beliefs.

Why should we let the world influence us to refrain from being who we are and doing a Christian thing that we think of to do? Why should I have a moment of condemnation or embarrassment about carrying my Bible in public as if it were morally wrong?

Why should we think of a way to religiously not shine our light?

At the same time that Christians are advised not to wear crosses "because it offends unbelievers".. there are unbelievers who prominently and openly wear crosses without apology for it.

Christians are too quick to yield their privileges over to the unbeliever. Christians for years have given the television over to unbelievers .. going so far as to call the tv the devil's device... instead of seeing the tv as a tool for evangelism.

After all, it says in John that all things were made by Him, and for Him.

Thank God for all Christians who do now use the internet.. but strangely there are those Christians using the internet as a tool for evangelism where they still write articles against the use of the television for evangelism, having an attitude against those evangelistic programs.

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I wonder if any of you have heard..? unbelievers say "let there be light" when they flip the lightswitch. It makes me wonder why Christians don't do that. We far more than they have reason to do it because Jesus is the light of the world and we are to demonstrate the Bible truths.

We too are supposed to be a light to the world also, so why not say "let there be light" when we flip the lightswitch.. bringing light into a dark room.. as a miniature example of what God did in Genesis?

The unbeliever does it in mockery but it's still a recognized connection that we'd all be in darkness without God providing light. 

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My point is that whatever we do, we shouldn't find religious reasons for making our Christian effectiveness into ineffectiveness. We should look for every opportunity to let our light shine.