JoeCanada

7 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

The "white horse" in Revelation is a  metaphor that builds on the passage in Matthew 24. It IS the same event. 

When He returns, it will be to establish His earthly Kingdom. The white horse is a kingly symbol. No, there will not be an actual horse, anymore than an actual dragon, or falling stars, or a prostitute. (He may choose to have a horse when He sets up His kingdom, but that is a different matter.)

Revelation is written in metaphoric, or symbolic, language. 

Have you read the OT passage that says that the clouds are God's chariot? That is a metaphor that blends the "clouds" in Matthew with the horse metaphor in Revelation.

 

Thanks for the dialogue...

You say..... "the white horse is a kingly symbol"

So... what about the rider on a white horse in Rev 6?.... Is it also a 'kingly symbol' for the one who comes to conquer?

What about the angels in Rev 19 who follow Jesus, also on 'white horses'? Are these "kingly angels"?

You also say...." the clouds are God's chariot? That is a metaphor that blends the "clouds" in Matthew with the horse metaphor in Revelation."

Not so sure about this. The 'clouds' are also a metaphor for 'horses'?

Are clouds only a metaphor for 'white horses'?.... What about other colored horses?

 

Throughout Scripture, both Old and New Testament, Jesus is pictured as the 'great cloud rider'. He ascended in a cloud and He will come back riding a cloud.... unless you think that the cloud is a metaphor for a horse..... kinda confusing don't you think?

I'm not trying to be difficult.

It just seems that when a passage or passages of Scripture seem to contradict a persons belief or their 'interpretation'.... then it's written off as "well, it's a metaphor....or simile.... or a figure of speech.... or it's a code word.... or an analogy.... its a euphemism.... or its symbolic.... yada yada yada!

It's anything but what is written. I realize that much of Revelation is symbolic, but a person has to be reasonable piecing it all together. Otherwise, we end up with a complete cluster (....) of symbols and metaphors and code words and figures of speech etc, etc.

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Meaning, that if Jesus had not gone to the cross “in the midst of the week,” then WE, ALL OF US, would not be saved! We would have no way to pay for our sins - except through our own blood

What?..... wait..... What????

We could pay for our sins through our own blood?

Brother..... you really need to explain what you are saying with this statement. 

I won't comment on it until you do.

 

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, most Jews do not even believe in God so HOW is that a Religion?

Most "Jews" DO believe in God.... they just don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah

 

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

a Jew is a person from Judea, why is that so hard to grasp

 

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You miss the whole point of Gal. 3. Paul is saying that all people, Jews and Gentiles, males and females can only make heaven through FAITH ALONE.

First you say that a Jew is someone from Judea.....

Then you say that "Jews and Gentiles" ...... seems like you are equating all Israelis as "Jews"

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

There are TWO BRIDES....Rachel the preferred bride and Leah the forced bride. Israel will rule with Christ during the Kingdom Age, the Church will nit be on earth per se, except for the Martyrs of the 70th week.

This is your OPINION...... not scripturally based at all!

 

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Jesus will rule a 1000 year Kingdom Age with Israel, and we will not be here with him.

Again.... your OPINION!.......... not scripturally based at all!

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Yu keep saying a Jew is a Religion, that just not factual.

Jewish ethnicity, religion, and community are highly interrelated, as Judaism is an ethnic religion

On 5/9/2024 at 5:54 PM, Montana Marv said:

The Question is; When does Christ the King dismount the White Horse and rule the nations.

When the seventh angel sounded the trumpet....

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ and He will reign forever and ever....

You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign"........... Rev 11:15-17

The seventh trumpet is the inauguration of Jesus. It is when the transfer of ownership of the title deed to the earth  from Satan to Jesus has officially been made.

And it is at the seventh trumpet that Jesus has "begun to reign"

It is not until at the end of the bowl judgments that Jesus and His heavenly armies wage war against the beast and those who follow him..... Rev 19:11-21

So, His rule comes before He attacks Satan and those whom he has gathered to fight the King of Kings.

30 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

That's what Jesus was doing as he open ed each seals, foretelling future events over a coming 42 month time period.

 

31 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

How can  you miss the point I made about the Seals being Prophetic in nature?

Because I see the first 6 seals as 'judgments' against the Jews and Christians predominately.

When the 7th seal is opened it begins the Day of the Lord, God's Wrath. 

Just because you make a point doesn't make that point legit.

The trumpets and vials are God's Wrath.

The seals are Satan's wrath.

God does not share the stage with Satan. God alone will be glorified in that day.

 

14 hours ago, Diaste said:

Sure. But that still doesn't show a 2nd and 3rd appearance of Jesus.

Second 'appearance of Jesus'..... Rev 6:16.... The earth dwellers don't just imagine Jesus is ready to bring wrath upon them, they obviously see Him in the heaven when the sky is split apart.... 

Third 'appearance of Jesus' .... "Who is this who comes from Edom"...Isa 63:1... Jesus marching toward Jerusalem from Edom, gathering His people along the way who were dispersed when told to flee at the AofD

Fourth 'appearance of Jesus'.... "because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign".... Rev 11:17.... At the inauguration of Jesus at the 7th trumpet, Jesus has been given the kingdom of the earth and is reigning in Israel..... also Ezek 39:7

Fifth 'appearance of Jesus' .... "And I saw heaven opened and behold, a white horse...' ...Rev 19:11>....Jesus leads the armies of heaven into battle.

There could be another one as well. In Rev 14:14, Jesus again on a cloud, reaping the earth with a sickle..... and another angel also with a sickle reaping the clusters from the vine of the earth for the winepress of the wrath of God. This one, if the earth dwellers actually see Him, would come between the second and third 'appearance of Jesus'. (Jesus does not use a sickle when He/the angels gather His elect at the 6th seal)

So in essence, there could be 6 appearances of Jesus. 

The 'second coming' is a multi-faceted event.... not just a one time 'appearance.'

Like I have said before....

It will be the GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH

On 5/3/2024 at 3:04 PM, Revelation Man said:

Verses 7-8 are not really a part of verses 4-13, they are meant to show WHY the END IS NOT YET in vs. 6, Jesus demonstrates why the end can not be the 70 AD events (wars & rumors of wars). It is not meant to be taken as those verses are a part of the END TIMES, they are not, every verse in 4-13 is specifically about the Disciples lives, period.

Verses 4-8 are talking about the 'birth pangs'..... like Jesus said in verse 8 of  Matt 24.

What are these 'birth pangs'?

I can't see them as being equated with the disciples lives and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Sure, there may have been a 'false Christ'. 

But did they hear of 'wars and rumors of wars'?.... Maybe, but in the singular 'war' and 'rumor'.

Did they see or hear of 'nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom' rising?

Did they experience 'famines (plural) and earthquakes (plural)?

I would say that for the most part, the answer is NO. 

So what was Jesus referring to?

Are they the times just before the coming of the Messiah at the end of the age?

 

Probably and most likely.

Maybe .... Jesus was referring to the Church which was about to be born. The Church would then be like a baby, toddler, teenager, young adult, mature adult.... it would develop and mature..... and then go thru the birth pangs.... just before the return of the Messiah. 

 

On 5/2/2024 at 10:10 PM, Revelation Man said:

If the 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump, and they do, then the 7 Trumps IN and OF THEMSELVES contain the full Wrath of God.

Using that same logic.....

Since the 7 vials emit from the 7th trumpet.... and.... The 7 trumpets emit from the 7th seal..... then the 7 seals IN and OF THEMSELVES contain the full Wrath of God.

This is, after all, your logic....Right?

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The birds in my honest opinion are symbolic also, they represent the Church.

 

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

the birds feasting is referring unto the Church or the Bride of Christ and at our wedding feast/super, we feast on the WICKED SYMBOLICALLY speaking)

So.... Rev man.... 

I know from past conversations that you equate the armies of heaven returning with Christ as the church.

Are you now really saying that the armies that follow Jesus out of heaven on horses jump off their horses and fly in the air and answer the call of the angel to assemble for dinner? 

(I slap myself on the forehead and exclaim "good grief")

 

The Lamb's wedding feast does NOT entail feasting on the flesh of horses or people. We are not cannibals. We are not zombies. We do not have a feast on the battlefield!

The Lamb's wedding feast will take place on His Holy Mountain where He will prepare a feast of aged wine and choice meat..... a lavish banquet.

Isa 25:6

The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.

There is a huge difference between the Marriage banquet of the Lamb......

And the Great Supper of God.

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

I should have said. "The seals are conditions that will exist or events that will occur. The seals are an overview of the end of the age with trumps all occurring within the seals." and not, "The seals are conditions that will exist or events that will occur. The seals are an overview of the end of the age with trumps and seals all occurring within the seals."

My bad, I should probably have a 2nd cup before I write stuff. 

I see the 6th seal and 7th trump occurring in the same general time/space moment. The sixth seal reveals the signs heralding the return of Jesus and the onset of wrath, the 7th trump is when Jesus returns, the gathering occurs then, Jesus metes out the wrath of God. How close together they are I cannot say, but I don't equate them. I do believe I have said I see it as a successive/concurrence, not one for one, not equal, but not all seals first, then all the trumps either. 

About your 2nd paragraph...

Isn't all that happening as revealed by the seals as well? War, death, famine, plague mass murder and, martyrs sacrificed in the name of Jesus and for their testimony. It don't sound to me like anything is normal, even within the seals. 

I guess I have never understood this. "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left." as the people being oblivious to 'what's going on' as in, they are unaware of the many crises on the earth at the time. What they are generally oblivious to is what the crises point to, the near return of Jesus and the coming wrath. 

So it's pretty clear to me the seals reveal the entire last week right up to the impending wrath of God at the 6th seal. 

I would say the trumps are the herald of the calamities revealed by seals 2-4, before the return of Jesus and the wrath of God, which wrath is the bowls. The pressure of the trumps is meant to drive people toward the Father before the finality of God's savage wrath. 

 I think if you read to Isaiah 63:5-6 you'll see this is the wrath of God on the nations. In fact, 1-6 is a description of the coming wrath, just like in Rev 14:17-20.

But, if Jesus already destroyed the nations as in Isaiah 63 and prior to Rev 19, who is he fighting against in Rev 19 when it's proclaimed in Rev 19:19; "Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army."?

That doesn't mean the gathering didn't happen at, or around, or just prior to, Rev 19. If there was language that prohibited the gathering at this time that would be one thing, but there isn't. Mere omission in the narrative of a timeline does not mean any particular event didn't happen near to other events in that timeline. It's just that the focus of the narrative is on a singular event, or several events, a targeted focus at this point in the timeline narrative; it's not an impossibility for other events to occur simultaneously, in conjunction, or in a near succession. 

In other words, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

 

See the previous. 

I see this as added details. It's like an investigation. An investigator will interview several people and attempt to gather relevant evidence from many sources to construct a complete picture. This is what Spirit does in scripture. Many times a single revealed event isn't described in every detail in single book by a single author in one or two chapters; one has to scour several books and traverse 1000s of years to find all the details.

Your not seeing contradictory statements, your seeing added details of the event of Jesus coming/return. 

The sun and the moon and the stars go out, the nations fear the coming wrath, the 7th trump sounds, the elect are gathered by the angels up into the clouds of the air, Jesus and His armies split the sky and charge into battle against the beast. 

That's not too hard to do for one with all power in the universe. No coming then return needed, not twice, just a rapid succession of events. 

Even if the term 'parousia' isn't used, it's clear Jesus is coming from one place to go to another. The armies are following Him. He's going somewhere and He was somewhere else before he was going elsewhere. So in Rev 19 He's going and coming; going out from heaven, coming to earth to the great battle, as depicted. 

 

 

Not knowing the day or hour is vastly different than the ability to discern the general time. Of course they know He's coming, we know He's coming, we just don't know exactly when. We are told to watch.

"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come"

"Be on your guard and stay alert!"

"So keep watch at all times,"

We are also what to watch for. If we could not know the general time, why would we be told to watch and stay sober and alert? Satan and the beast know the same thing, the general time, not the exact moment. Satan, the beast and the FP are preparing for the inevitability, the war they know is coming, the war they want; they just don't know when their adversary will appear. 

 

 

 

Revelation 12 gives us a pretty good overview of the tribulation conflict.

Satan and his followers are kicked out of heaven and thrown to the earth:

"Woe to the earth and sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.... 12:12

"And when the dragon saw that he was thrown to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.... (Israel) 12:13

"The dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Christ".... (both Jews, who keep the commandments, and Christians, who hold to the testimony of Christ).... 12:17

So we see that Satan's great wrath will be geared towards the nation of Israel first and then the Church, Christians.

God lets Satan have his way against Jews and Christians. Satan is not concerned with other earth dwellers and other religions. He is after the cream of the crop, first and foremost.  If he can annihilate the Jews and the Christians, then the earth will be his. But God always has a remnant.

Why does God allow this? To weed out true believers from fake believers. That's why we see martyrs at the 5th seal, and many more to come. 

I agree that God's wrath is the trumpet and bowl judgments. God will not share His glory with another, especially Satan. That's why Isaiah writes "The Lord alone will be exalted in that day"... Isa 2:11 ....... The trumpet and bowl judgments are the "Day of the Lord"

Satan has his day....the tribulation............... God has His day....The Day of the Lord"

The seals are Satan's wrath. 

You have the beginning of "birth pangs"

Then...... "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name".... Matt 24:9

AFTER tribulation is the Day of the Lord, the day of His Wrath....(not a literal 24 hr day)

Huge difference between tribulation 'thlipsis' and wrath 'orge'.

 

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I`m meaning that not every mention of a horse is symbolic. Jesus on a white horse with a sword out of His mouth is symbolic. And the birds feasting on the flesh of horses is real.

I agree that the sword coming out of His mouth is symbolic.

But Jesus on a white horse I believe is literal.

Just as in Jesus's first advent, He entered Jerusalem riding on a donkey.

The donkey has been historically linked with Redemption.

Was it a real donkey? Of course it was. 

Rev 19 has Jesus, on a white horse, leading the armies of heaven to battle. 

I cannot see Him blowing the battle trumpet and leading a charge..... while running.

19 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Seven Trumps are the only Judgments, that's why 7 = Divine Completion not 21.

Right.... and the 7 bowls are not judgment???

7 = divine completion.... 7 bowls???

7 = divine completion.... 7 seals???

According to your theory.... only the 7 trumps are divine completion???

 

18 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

For starters, you take one word (2 words) or phrase and totally misapplied it. The Second Coming term is rarely used in the bible, it usually just says coming, we added in the part referred unto as "2nd" ourselves. Read John 20, Jesus went to the Father, offered the Sacrifice and returned with the gift of the holy spirit. Jesus told Mary not to touch him for he had yet to ascend unto the Father, yet when the Disciples saw him 8 days later, Jesus told doubting Thomas to touch his wounds. 

It should be seen as the Second Avent not the "Second Coming". 

The Second Advent does not have to preclude Jesus returning unto this earth many many times. People of your persuasion on this, in my opinion, conflate this and then your whole thesis is marred by a misconception. Its not about Jesus second return to earth, its about his second publicly seen stay, the first was a 33 year venture which led to a lamb being led to a sacrificial event as a Meek Lamb. The second will be Jesus' 1000 year reign on this earth as the Lion of Judah. All, this second coming, as John 20 proves, is just a bad perception of events. Jesus was the Man in Linen in Dan. 12, he was the Rock in the Desert that Israel followed, he was the man Abraha called Lord in Gen. 18 & 19 and on and on. Jesus comes to earth many, many many times. 

Matt. 24:30-31 is the Second Advent starting point. Matt. 24:36-51 is the pre 70th week rapture. As in the days of Noah they will be giving in marriage, parting, eating the fatted calf so to speak, but then just like when the floods came, it all changes, this can not happen during the 70th week, God's plagues will be falling, so why would these men of earth by acting in a normal fashion  when Billion of Human Beings are bein g judged and killed by God? You see, NOTHING but a Pre 70th week (Pre Trib.) Rapture fits all the timeline narratives. 

The whole "HE CAN ONLY DO THAT ONE MORE TIME" is just you and others not understanding that its you and other men who have placed that "restraint on Jesus" not God. 

Where is the Anti-Christs White Horse? See why deeper analytical thinking always give us the true answers? I always try to follow the truth to its ends, I do not try to justify my own thoughts and understandings, its so easy to get caught up in that, I used to do it, find just the right bible translation to make my thought FIT....I quit that a long time ago.

Since both the Anti-Christ and Jesus "Rides a White Horse" its SYMBOLIC of a Conqueror and that was a real symbol in old times anyway, conquering kings were usually painted as being on a white horse. Likewise Satan does not ride a Red, Black or Pale Green horse either. Why would Jesus need to ride a white horse to come to earth? Did he depart on a white horse? after being called unto End Time Prophetic Understandings right at 40 years ago it still amazes me that people refuse to grasp the language God is speaking unto us in. Codes, Symbology and Metaphors, that is why the Jewish leaders 2000 years ago could not understand Jesus when they saw him, they looked for the Conquering King, and he had to come out of Egypt but also be born in Bethlehem, so God does this on purpose, LIKEWISE, I see the place the A.C. is born (Dan. 8:9 MANDATES Greece) I see where he rising to Political Power (Dan. 7:7-8) in the Fourth Beasts Head amongst the 10 (Complete Europe Reunited) horns AND I also see this man must have Assyrian Blood (Isaiah 10). Now, whereas I see all these in a MESHED UP MAN, other argue he has to be Muslim (Syrian......they don't even understand it means Old Assyria or Iraq and Turkey mostly) some therefore say he arises i  Turkey or in Babylon et al. Some say hes Jewish (which makes zero sense) et al. But the truth is, just like the Bethlehem/Egypt verses, this is easy stuff once we slow down, take off our colored glasses and look at all the facts, he must be born in Greece to a man who has Turkish/Iraqi family roots but migrated to Greece, and he then arises to power in the E.U. since being born in Greece makes you an E.U. Citizen.🕵️‍♀️It's Elementary my dear Watson. 

Seven Trumps are the only Judgments, that's why 7 = Divine Completion not 21.

Finish the rest later...............you will nr be able to rebut, so you may start another thread. 

 

 

You da man.... Rev man!

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

On 5/1/2024 at 10:20 AM, JoeCanada said:

1 Thes 3:13...... " so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints"

"at the coming"..... second coming obviously

Obvious to you, maybe

If you don't want to believe that it's the second coming, well, that's ok. The Greek term is "Parousia" which is a coming or presence, but I don't really need to tell you this. Whether its actually a "second" coming (presence) or a third, forth or whatever, it will be His established presence..... forever.  

 

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The problem with using this phrase is that it means different things to difference people, so causes confusion

If the phrase " second coming" causes confusion to 'some' people, perhaps its because they're not all too familiar with scripture. I don't know.......  I'm just guessing. I think the term "second coming of Jesus" is a rather universally recognized and accepted term/phrase.

 

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

some people say that the second coming is different than the rapture, while others say they are the same thing. So for starters, how do you define it?

The rapture is secondary to the resurrection. The resurrection happens first, and then the rapture..... 1 Thes 4:15

I believe Matthew 24:29-31 is the same as Paul's teaching in 1 Thes 4:15-17.......

We, as students of the bible, have to look at the whole council of God, all the relevant scriptures.... not just a few cherry picked ones. There are many more than Matt 24 and 1 Thes.... but I'm sure you know them.

So, yes, I believe that Scripture teaches that the "parousia" is equated with the resurrection and then the rapture

21 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Jesus as the Lamb is symbolic, and there is a real lamb.

Jesus as the Rock is symbolic and there is a real rock.

Jesus with the two-edged sword out of His mouth is symbolic and there is a real sword.

Jesus on a horse is symbolic and there is a real horse. 

what are you meaning by this?

18 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

It is when the Lord comes a second time to the earth. He comes symbolically on a while horse with His angelic army also.

Horse - power,

White - light, glory.

Jesus comes in power and great glory.

If "horse" (ippos in Greek) equals power,  as you have written, then the angel who calls out to the birds of the air to assemble for the great supper of God, that you may eat the flesh of "horses".... 'ippos'.... same word as Jesus' horse...so the birds are going to eat 'power' ???

The angel is quite clear in saying "eat the flesh of horses".... as well as the flesh of kings and commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of the riders on the horses (and the horses), and the flesh of all men both free men and slaves, and small and great.........Rev 19:17-19

The "birds" that the angel gathers is not symbolic of anything. It's a bird, a fowl, a carrion bird. It eats literal flesh. 

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

That Rev 19 is Jesus return to earth with SAINTS ( church) previously raptured before the great tribulation of the 7 Seals begins.

Well..... I agree with part of this reply.

"That Rev 19 is Jesus return to earth"

That I agree with, as scripture declares.

2 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Many Scholars  disagree with you.  Not sure why you posted this. Well your not here to chat about it that's clear "Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming" we noticed "is not". Now me I would have started it with "I believe blah blah blah is not the second coming and heres why". 

Thanks for sharing

I agree that they disagree. :)  Many, if not most scholars and bible expositors, students etc think that Rev 19 is indeed the second coming.

But scripture disagrees with them. 

That's the reason I posted this. If a person takes in the whole council of God and not just a few cherry-picked verses, then they will see that scripture does indeed declare that Jesus does come well before Rev 19. 

His appearance and coming in the clouds at the sixth seal is what then? 

It's His return, His second coming, in the clouds as the two men in Acts 1:11 testify....." This same Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

How did He go into heaven?..... In a cloud.

How is He coming back ..... He's the cloud rider, throughout scripture. He's coming back in a cloud.

In Rev 19..... heaven is opened up. The earth dwellers see Jesus on a horse and an army of angels following Him. No clouds.

Thanks for your input.

On 4/30/2024 at 2:04 AM, Diaste said:

The seals are conditions that will exist or events that will occur. The seals are an overview of the end of the age with trumps and seals all occurring within the seals.

Jesus comes back at the end of the sixth seal, which I believe from past conversations that, you equate this with the seventh trumpet.(Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Knowing all the destruction and open demonic activity that's going on, on the earth and the peoples of the earth, during the seven trumpets,  how can a person believe scripture that says the people will be oblivious to what's going on.... that they will be marrying and building and planting and eating and drinking...... all normal everyday activities..........amidst  massive earthquakes, tsunami's, fire and brimstone, 100 pound hail stones, being tortured by demonic locusts for 5 months.... billions of people being killed...... etc etc......... etc.

It makes no sense.

20 hours ago, WilliamL said:

As I have pointed out before, their is no scripture that uses the words "the second coming." This is a doctrine of men.

I don't believe I used any scripture that says "second coming"

There are numerous places in scripture that say that Jesus is coming again..... or do you not believe that?

Acts 1:11...... "Men of Galillee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven"

"Will come"..... Jesus came once and was crucified.... so He will come again...... or second coming.

1 Thes 3:13...... " so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints"

"at the coming"..... second coming obviously

On 4/30/2024 at 7:26 AM, Charlie744 said:

In Revelation there is a period of 30 minutes of silence. 
 

What is this all about?

Hi Charlie,

It could be:

Jesus has left the building, so to speak, at the end of the sixth seal. When the seventh is open, heaven is awaiting the arrival of the Lord Jesus and the great multitude which no one could count (Rev 7:9). These are the resurrection and raptured of all who have put their faith in Jesus, all the way back to Adam.

"There will be silence before You, and praise in Zion, O God"....... Ps 65:1

The silence is before God the Father..... and praise in Zion as they see the Lord Jesus.

Or:

The seventh seal is broken and Jesus reads the judgments that are going to be poured out on the earth dwellers.

On 4/27/2024 at 10:41 PM, Revelation Man said:

Firstly, Jesus appears at the 7th Vial, not the 6th Seal, as a matter of fact the 6th Seal is merely a "Prophetic Utterance" only.

I should have been more specific.

Can you provide any supporting scripture for this...."as a matter of fact the 6th Seal is merely a "Prophetic Utterance" only.

On 4/26/2024 at 7:27 AM, Revelation Man said:

Firstly, Jesus appears at the 7th Vial, not the 6th Seal, as a matter of fact the 6th Seal is merely a "Prophetic Utterance" only.

supporting scripture please

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Firstly, Jesus appears at the 7th Vial, not the 6th Seal, as a matter of fact the 6th Seal is merely a "Prophetic Utterance" only. The Wrath of God does not actually come unto the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact (first 4 Trumps are one event which starts God's wrath which continues with Woe's 1, 2 and 3 and the 3rd Woe is the 7 Vials, and Jesus shows up in Rev. 16:19, at the 7th Vial.

Now lets discuss why you are actually pointing towards a very, very important point in time, and why the A.C. needs to send out lying spirits. I will do this by asking you a question about the 6th Seal who FORETELLS what's going to happen when the wrath of God falls and the 7 Trumps contain all of Gods wrath, because the 7 vials emit from the 7th Trump. We know the 6th Seal says these men will hide in caves, too scared to come out, begging to be killed by the rocks. Lets take that info and ponder thus

QUESTION: If you were not of God, and had taken the Mark of the Beast, then this Asteroid strikes, burning a 1/3 of the worlds trees, houses etc. etc. and the 1st Woe of tormenting Demons tormented you for 5 months, then the 200 Million Angels (thats what they are, they DELIVER God's Plagues, Satan CAN NOT kill Satan, Jesus said so) killed 1/3 of those who had taken the Mark of the Beast. Finally the 7th Trump sounds and starts the 3rd Woe, which is the 7 Vials, and as they were poured out men got grievous sores and boils if they had the Mark of the Beast, and they were scorched by the sun, and so......... THE QUESTION IS.........

 

in this case, with all of these plagues pounding down, would you not be "HIDING IN A CAVE"? 

So, the answer is not why doesn't the Anti-Christ have power he does (but ONLY over the E.U. and Mediterranean Sea Region) but of course men are in hiding, he can not raise a standing army per se, BUT............alas, God needs the COWARDS to all gather at Armageddon, so he needs to STOP the plagues long enough to give the Anti-Christ, False Prophet and Satan the Dragon time enough to convince the kings of the WHOLE WORLD and their armies to come against Israel. In so doing Jesus upon his return can then wipe them all out. But its Satan's last gasp desperation Hail Mary. He has to wipe out every Jews in order to prove God i a liar. So, he needs to lie to these cowards cowering in caves, basements etc. etc. 

So, he dries up his PLAGUES not the Euphrates River, which is just is a METAPHOR, long enough so those cowards in hiding can be persuaded to come out of hiding, go to Jerusalem and kill off al the Jews. So, what is the lie? The tell them, those Two Jewish Witnesses wrought all this havoc, they have now been killed, yes they prayed down every plague in public, on national TV before they happened, you all saw it, one by one, they even prayed down the these grievous sores, the scorching sun plague etc. before they died, but now its al STOPPED, so lets go kill every last Jew and this can NEVER, EVER HAPPEN AGAIN !! And these cowards who have the Mark of the Beast are easily talked into this, but alas we know their fate.

This is the ONLY REASON that the Two-witnesses are even allowed to "die" and be raised, they have Glorious bodies, they do not need to "DIE" to be taken to Heaven right? God allows them to die so those men in caves can be fooled into thinking victory might be possible. We all know modern armies can cross rivers, so why do we not understand this Metaphor? The Euphrates DRYING UP is merely God DRYING UP His Plagues just long enough for these lying demons to entice these coward unto the Armageddon Battle where the "SPECTACLE" of Jesus slaying them all by the presence of his coming, will forever be understood as good conquering evil once and for all. The Anti-Christ is not in control of men per se, he is for a bit. Here is why? The First Four Trumps IMHO, come against the New World (the 1/3) so that will not affect the A.C. he is killing and maiming at will in the E.U. and the Mediterranean Sea Region ONLY, he never conquers the whole world, he conquers the WHOLE EARTH or land being spoken about in the 7 Headed (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the A.C.) 10 Horned (E.U.) Region. The First Woe is merely Demons torturing men for 5 months..........BUT WHO and WHY? I think its like when Moses drew the line and said stand ye this day on God's side or stand ye on their side as he came down with the 10 Commandments. These Demons are allowed by God (1st Woe, its a Plague from God) to torture those who are in limbo imho, not to kill them, but they must choose God or Satan (Mark of the Beast) one way or another, those who chose God will probably be killed after the 5 month period, or instantly by humans, but not by the Demons who can only torture. Then the 2nd Woe is 200 Million Angels who orders kick in after every person has made a CHOICE, they start killing 1/3 of all men  who have taken the Mark of the Beast these ARE NOT Demons, only Angels will kill Satan's allies, Satan can not kill Satan. Then finally the 3rd Woe comes, like I stated above, at the 6th Vial, God DRIES UP His Plagues (Euphrates River is a Metaphor) in order to ENTICE the cowards to show up at Armageddon.

Rev man.... thanks for your response.

Once again we are going to butt heads.

Now, with all due respect..... I find myself in total disagreement with pretty much everything you have shared.

As you have many, many times declared.... "I have been called to prophecy.... I now more than anyone else about Revelation, and prophecy"..... 

Please correct me if I am wrong..... and that you didn't say those things.

Because you are pre-trib.... I have a really hard time believing anything you say/interpret about Revelation, Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Joel, Isaiah... Matthew, Thes 1&2, Corinthians, Luke.... etc.

You say that you will be out of here BEFORE the 70th week of Daniel starts... before the Great Tribulation.... and then you go about trying to interpret the Book of Rev, the Book of Daniel....etc

Why should anyone believe you?

And please.... don't tell us that you are leaving information for those who are "left behind"

Anything that doesn't line up with the pre-trib dogma falls into the category of... metaphor, analogy, its prose...it doesn't really mean that.... its anything but what is actually written. 

Its like you are saying that God the Holy Spirit has Alzheimer's or something..... like He can't say what He means. 

Euphrates River is a metaphor for "plagues"?

ROFL.... you're killing me brother.