JoeCanada
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Posts posted by JoeCanada
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On 4/27/2024 at 10:41 PM, Revelation Man said:
Firstly, Jesus appears at the 7th Vial, not the 6th Seal, as a matter of fact the 6th Seal is merely a "Prophetic Utterance" only.
I should have been more specific.
Can you provide any supporting scripture for this...."as a matter of fact the 6th Seal is merely a "Prophetic Utterance" only.
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On 4/26/2024 at 7:27 AM, Revelation Man said:
Firstly, Jesus appears at the 7th Vial, not the 6th Seal, as a matter of fact the 6th Seal is merely a "Prophetic Utterance" only.
supporting scripture please
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11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:
Firstly, Jesus appears at the 7th Vial, not the 6th Seal, as a matter of fact the 6th Seal is merely a "Prophetic Utterance" only. The Wrath of God does not actually come unto the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact (first 4 Trumps are one event which starts God's wrath which continues with Woe's 1, 2 and 3 and the 3rd Woe is the 7 Vials, and Jesus shows up in Rev. 16:19, at the 7th Vial.
Now lets discuss why you are actually pointing towards a very, very important point in time, and why the A.C. needs to send out lying spirits. I will do this by asking you a question about the 6th Seal who FORETELLS what's going to happen when the wrath of God falls and the 7 Trumps contain all of Gods wrath, because the 7 vials emit from the 7th Trump. We know the 6th Seal says these men will hide in caves, too scared to come out, begging to be killed by the rocks. Lets take that info and ponder thus
QUESTION: If you were not of God, and had taken the Mark of the Beast, then this Asteroid strikes, burning a 1/3 of the worlds trees, houses etc. etc. and the 1st Woe of tormenting Demons tormented you for 5 months, then the 200 Million Angels (thats what they are, they DELIVER God's Plagues, Satan CAN NOT kill Satan, Jesus said so) killed 1/3 of those who had taken the Mark of the Beast. Finally the 7th Trump sounds and starts the 3rd Woe, which is the 7 Vials, and as they were poured out men got grievous sores and boils if they had the Mark of the Beast, and they were scorched by the sun, and so......... THE QUESTION IS.........
in this case, with all of these plagues pounding down, would you not be "HIDING IN A CAVE"?
So, the answer is not why doesn't the Anti-Christ have power he does (but ONLY over the E.U. and Mediterranean Sea Region) but of course men are in hiding, he can not raise a standing army per se, BUT............alas, God needs the COWARDS to all gather at Armageddon, so he needs to STOP the plagues long enough to give the Anti-Christ, False Prophet and Satan the Dragon time enough to convince the kings of the WHOLE WORLD and their armies to come against Israel. In so doing Jesus upon his return can then wipe them all out. But its Satan's last gasp desperation Hail Mary. He has to wipe out every Jews in order to prove God i a liar. So, he needs to lie to these cowards cowering in caves, basements etc. etc.
So, he dries up his PLAGUES not the Euphrates River, which is just is a METAPHOR, long enough so those cowards in hiding can be persuaded to come out of hiding, go to Jerusalem and kill off al the Jews. So, what is the lie? The tell them, those Two Jewish Witnesses wrought all this havoc, they have now been killed, yes they prayed down every plague in public, on national TV before they happened, you all saw it, one by one, they even prayed down the these grievous sores, the scorching sun plague etc. before they died, but now its al STOPPED, so lets go kill every last Jew and this can NEVER, EVER HAPPEN AGAIN !! And these cowards who have the Mark of the Beast are easily talked into this, but alas we know their fate.
This is the ONLY REASON that the Two-witnesses are even allowed to "die" and be raised, they have Glorious bodies, they do not need to "DIE" to be taken to Heaven right? God allows them to die so those men in caves can be fooled into thinking victory might be possible. We all know modern armies can cross rivers, so why do we not understand this Metaphor? The Euphrates DRYING UP is merely God DRYING UP His Plagues just long enough for these lying demons to entice these coward unto the Armageddon Battle where the "SPECTACLE" of Jesus slaying them all by the presence of his coming, will forever be understood as good conquering evil once and for all. The Anti-Christ is not in control of men per se, he is for a bit. Here is why? The First Four Trumps IMHO, come against the New World (the 1/3) so that will not affect the A.C. he is killing and maiming at will in the E.U. and the Mediterranean Sea Region ONLY, he never conquers the whole world, he conquers the WHOLE EARTH or land being spoken about in the 7 Headed (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the A.C.) 10 Horned (E.U.) Region. The First Woe is merely Demons torturing men for 5 months..........BUT WHO and WHY? I think its like when Moses drew the line and said stand ye this day on God's side or stand ye on their side as he came down with the 10 Commandments. These Demons are allowed by God (1st Woe, its a Plague from God) to torture those who are in limbo imho, not to kill them, but they must choose God or Satan (Mark of the Beast) one way or another, those who chose God will probably be killed after the 5 month period, or instantly by humans, but not by the Demons who can only torture. Then the 2nd Woe is 200 Million Angels who orders kick in after every person has made a CHOICE, they start killing 1/3 of all men who have taken the Mark of the Beast these ARE NOT Demons, only Angels will kill Satan's allies, Satan can not kill Satan. Then finally the 3rd Woe comes, like I stated above, at the 6th Vial, God DRIES UP His Plagues (Euphrates River is a Metaphor) in order to ENTICE the cowards to show up at Armageddon.
Rev man.... thanks for your response.
Once again we are going to butt heads.
Now, with all due respect..... I find myself in total disagreement with pretty much everything you have shared.
As you have many, many times declared.... "I have been called to prophecy.... I now more than anyone else about Revelation, and prophecy".....
Please correct me if I am wrong..... and that you didn't say those things.
Because you are pre-trib.... I have a really hard time believing anything you say/interpret about Revelation, Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Joel, Isaiah... Matthew, Thes 1&2, Corinthians, Luke.... etc.
You say that you will be out of here BEFORE the 70th week of Daniel starts... before the Great Tribulation.... and then you go about trying to interpret the Book of Rev, the Book of Daniel....etc
Why should anyone believe you?
And please.... don't tell us that you are leaving information for those who are "left behind"
Anything that doesn't line up with the pre-trib dogma falls into the category of... metaphor, analogy, its prose...it doesn't really mean that.... its anything but what is actually written.
Its like you are saying that God the Holy Spirit has Alzheimer's or something..... like He can't say what He means.
Euphrates River is a metaphor for "plagues"?
ROFL.... you're killing me brother.
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THREE FROGS........... "Ribbit"
Rev 16:13-14:
" I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast
and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of
the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty"
Why does Satan (the dragon) need something extra to fight against Jesus? The Antichrist (the beast) is not enough. Apparent immortality is not enough. Satan and the Antichrist need demon spirits to deceive the kings of the world.
And what does the symbol of a frog mean?
They, frogs, come out of the "mouths" of the dragon, the antichrist and the false prophet. They issue forth from these three.
Might they have something to do with "words".... as they "come out of their mouths"? .... maybe.
Frogs are also amphibians. Might that have something to do with "fallen angels"?....... reptilian fallen angels....... maybe angels posing as reptilian aliens??? ..... again, maybe.
Frogs are a strange symbol in Scripture. The only other place in the bible where frogs are mentioned to any extent is in the Exodus Saga.
Frogs were one of the plagues.... they came out of the river and annoyed, aggravated, infuriated, and exasperated the Egyptians ...... in their houses, their beds, during their meals, etc.
Are the frogs then a symbol of constant wearing on the nerves by persistent aggravation? ......Maybe.
Why do the dragon, beast and false prophet send out these frog demon entities? Has their power somehow diminished?
If the antichrist is in command of most of the nations of the earth, in charge of everyone whose names are not written in the Book of Life, and they worship him (AC), then why can't he order the kings of the earth to do what he wants them to? Why does he have to use deceptive spirits?
After Jesus appears in the sky at the 6th seal, it is at that point the antichrist's power is greatly diminished.
There are two things that Jesus does to the antichrist, and they are mentioned in 2 Thes 2:8:
"And then the lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and will bring to an end with the brightness of His coming"
Jesus brings him, the antichrist, to nothing or to an end, and then afterwards He will slay him at Armageddon.
That's why the antichrist has to send evil spirits..... to convince the kings of the world to come to Armageddon.
His power is mostly gone.... he can't order them anymore.... he has to deceive them. So deception be the three spirit-like-frogs is what finally gets the world to Armageddon.
Once the armies get there......... their fate is sealed, as described in Zechariah 14:12:
"Now this will be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples
who have gone to war against Jerusalem:
their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot
in their sockets,
and their tongue will rot in their mouth"
Deception got them to Armageddon.
But...... it's really their refusal to repent that ultimately causes them to experience the last and final plague.
Jesus speaks the Words....and pronounces His final judgment over them.... and they rot while still standing.
" And they blasphemed the God of Heaven because of their pains and their sores,
and they did not repent"
Rev 16:11
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A great explanation by the late Dr. Michael S. Heiser:
Have we Translated Genesis 1 Wrong All this Time?!
You Tube
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5 hours ago, tatwo said:On 4/9/2024 at 5:31 PM, JoeCanada said:
THEY want another temple. And according to scripture, they will have one.
Yeh some of them do…where does it say that in scripture for my reference?
2 Thes 2:3-4
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
There's also Dan 9:27... Dan 11:31... Rev 11:1,2... Matt 24:15...
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5 hours ago, tatwo said:
Yeh…this is a slippery slope of "dragonistic deception"…most conflate the “second coming of the Lord” with a “pre-mid-trib rapture” event…this completely exposes their ignorance of who "Christ" actually is.
Yes... good point.
I think that it stems from a lack of understanding of the Cross.... the MYSTERY of the Cross.
When Jesus said "I'm going up to Jerusalem and the Son of Man is going to be crucified"... Peter said "Not so"..... Then Jesus rebuked Peter and said to him..."Get behind me Satan"...."you don't know the spirit that you're of".....(my paraphrasing)
Much of the church has forgotten Jesus' teachings. They want a "feel good" sermon and an "atta boy" slap on the back.
"Nope.... don't want any of this....I'm going in a pre-trib rapture"
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me."
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1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:
The Jews who want the 3rd temple need religion, not Jesus.
Yes.... they want religion.
They don't want Jesus.
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The coming Messiah..... True or False Messiah?...... or both?
Scripture teaches us that there will be a coming Messiah..... both a true Messiah and a false messiah.
It is the false messiah that will be the focus of this post.
The big question is HOW is this false messiah, the antichrist, the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction, the wicked one....... going to deceive churchgoers, Jews and maybe even some Christians, that he is their true messiah, that he is God and that he will give them what they're looking for. And what Israel has wanted for 2,000 years is another temple.
Jews believe that the coming Messiah will build their Third Temple. Well, they are correct. Jesus will build the temple at the start of the millennium.
But the one coming first will be the deceiver, the false Messiah...... and...... Satan's man Antichrist (the false Messiah) will give them exactly what they want...... the Third Temple..... and they will be totally fooled.
2 Thes 2:
" the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all powers and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness...."
" God will send upon them a strong deluding influence so that they may believe what is false"
This will be deception "el grande". The grand-daddy of all time deception. Satan is going to go "full on" because "he knows his time is short".
Now I know what many Christians will say. This just isn't going to happen because the Antichrist isn't going to sit in a rebuilt temple. Instead he is going to sit in the hearts and minds of Christians as per Paul's teaching in 2 Thes 2:4 and 1 Cor 3:16:
" so that he takes his seat in the temple of God"
" Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"
Satan will reside in the hearts and minds of Christians????????????????
NEVER!
That is an impossibility. Whoever says this is completely wrong. Period!
Why?
Satan is not omnipresent. Only God is.
Also.... if Satan were to sit in the hearts and minds of Christians, that would present a salvation issue, a lack of salvation.... because the Holy Spirit for believers is there right now. And God will not share a place in out hearts with Satan, or anyone else for that matter.
"How can any one enter the strong mans house and carry off his property unless he first binds the strong And then he will plunder his house"......... Mat 12:29
Satan cannot bind the Holy Spirit. That also is impossible.
It is true that when Jesus was crucified, the Temple curtain was torn in two. There is no longer a need for another temple built by human hands for the purpose of a blood sacrifice to take away sins.
Jesus completely took care of that. He was the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"....John 1:29
But the Jews never accepted Jesus, nor His sacrifice. They still carried on sacrificing even well beyond the destruction of the second temple.
THEY want another temple. And according to scripture, they will have one. I've heard Christians say that it will take too long to build a third temple. Really. Have you ever seen Jehovah's Witnesses build their church? I have. In the town I was living, about five lots down, they raised a church. It only took about 4 days. Incredible.
They also do not need a temple to resume the daily sacrifice and offering..... did you know that?
Also.... just to be clear. These sacrifices are not efficacious, they will not take away sins. It has nothing to do with believers. This is something that the Temple Institute feels that it has to accomplish.
If we look at Zech 6:12-13 .....we see that it it the Lord Jesus, who is called the Branch, that will build the Temple in His millennium reign.
So the One who is coming will deceive the Jews into believing HE is the Messiah. And he will have all sorts of special powers to prove himself.
"If anyone says to you, Behold, here is the Christ, or there He is.... do not believe him.
For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead
if possible................. even the elect".................... Matt 24:23 - 25
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9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:
Joe, sorry for not being clear. Jerusalem will be destroyed by the “people” who will be subjected to this “prince who is to come.”
The “people” of Rome (pagan Roman army) under Titus will destroy Jerusalem in 70 AD.
These same people that fall under pagan Rome will also find themselves to fall under this “prince who is to come.”
When pagan Rome is destroyed, it will be replaced by papal Rome who is headed by the “little horn” (this prince).
Jerusalem is completely destroyed in 70 AD. Then, pagan Rome will begin its decline until it is no more around 467 AD. But during the slow decline of pagan Rome, the Christian church is growing exponentially and becomes a very powerful entity in the Roman Empire.
When pagan Rome is dissolved the Christian church will replace it and these “people” will now serve under this “prince” who had come to full power over the church (the little horn is now sitting atop the 4th beast kingdom).
Hope this is somewhat clearer.
Ok... So I think what you are saying is, "pagan Rome", when it is completely "no more", is then replaced by "papal Rome", sometime around 467 (you maybe meant 476).
The Christian Church will then replace it (pagan Rome) and these "people" will now serve under the "prince" who is the little horn.
So the Christian Church is "papal Rome"?
Is this correct?
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15 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:
Michael is indeed referred to in Daniel as one of the “chief princes,” and there is two other “princes” (Persia and Greece) mentioned later in Daniel. However, none of these refer to a “prince” that would come to rule over the “literal people” who would destroy Israel.
Who then, is this "prince" that will rule over the people who would destroy Israel. Do you mean Jerusalem?
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19 hours ago, Charlie744 said:
there is no greater punishment than for God to make “desolate” His relationship and THEIR ability to have access to THEIR GOD for the coming 2000 years. God would remove or make “desolate” His presence from His people.
Charlie....
This is a rather "strong" statement.
Are you referring to "national Israel"?..... Those unrepentant Jews?..... The Pharisees?......
Certainly God will never turn away a repentant sinner, whether Jew or Gentile. All have access to the Throne.
19 hours ago, Charlie744 said:Long way of answering your question, but Jesus will and can not return UNTIL HE RESTORES THEIR SIGHT and they recognize He was their Messiah and they preach for 3.5 years.
?????
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18 hours ago, Charlie744 said:
By the way, the “people” of the prince to come represent the Roman people headed by Titus in 70 AD when they will destroy everything.
Hi Charlie,
The "prince to come" is an angelic being.... (demonic)
We know this from the angel Gabriel's words to Daniel:
"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia."...Dan 10:13
"Then he said, “Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come."...Dan 10:20
"“However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince."....Dan 10:21
Jerusalem is destroyed by people related to the ruler to come.....ie: "the prince to come".
We know from history that Jerusalem was actually destroyed in 70 AD by Syrian and Arabian men fighting as soldiers.....in Roman uniform..... in the Roman auxiliaries and legions. The two main legions that set fire to the temple were the Legio X Fretensis and Legio X11 Fulminata. The soldiers in these Legions were Syrians and Arabs.
The Syrian Legion X11 Fulminata had an intense hatred for the Jews especially after their humiliating defeat at the Battle of Beth Horon in AD 66.............. they were looking for revenge.
So.... NO.......... the people of the prince who is to come do not represent the Roman people.
The people of the prince who is to come, those who destroyed the temple, represent the Arab people.....Syrians.
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1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:
I believe Donald Trump is a despicable man
Maybe he is. He is only one among many. He may have talked about it, but there is one in office that openly does it..... against women and children.
1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:Daniel 11:21
“The next to come to power will be a despicable man who is not in line for royal succession. He will slip in when least expected and take over the kingdom by flattery and intrigue
It sounds like you are suggesting that this 'despicable man' that you name will take over "the kingdom."
Which kingdom will he take over?
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On 3/22/2024 at 7:40 PM, Charlie744 said:
the Bible is not written according to the rules of our English language. Very often it is not written in chronological order and many times it is found to be presented in a “Chiastic” structure.
I agree. However, Hebrew does have antecedents and pronouns like English, so we shouldn't just wave the hand and discount a passage where rules of grammar conflict with our understanding.
But.... we can look at Daniel 9:24-27 in a Chiasmus (chiastic structure).
The outside A + A' panels are parallel to one another. They suggest that the two accounts are plainly two different accounts, but are related to one another.
And indeed they are.
They contrast God's plan to establish Christ's Kingdom in Israel at the end of a 490 year period in verse 24.... with Satan's counterfeit plan to establish the Beast's kingdom in Israel within a seven year period at the end of Israel's history in verse 27.
Note the first marker set "weeks" where "seventy weeks" echoes "week" but it is referring to the seventieth one..... A + A'
The second marker set (B + B') shows when God announced making "reconciliation for iniquity", which would be thru Christ and put an end to sacrifice.... it was perverted by Satan and his Antichrist by only putting "an end to sacrifice and offering". The sacrifice is simply ended.
The third marker set (C) is God saying His people Israel would "anoint" the Most Holy..... but Antichrist did the opposite of anointing or consecrating by making his temple desolate.
These parallel structures of the markers in Dan 9:24 and 9:27 seems to show how "hell" would try to foil God's plan at the last minute (the 70th week).....that Satan would make his own decree replacing God's determination in verse 24, and would establish his own kingdom by making Jerusalem, God's Holy City, desolate.
The arrangement of these two verses suggests one reason why the 70th week (with tribulation et all) must occur is to allow Satan to counterfeit God's plan and lead many astray.
The B + B' converge towards the center of the passage.... and since they are converging, they are both part of the same course of events. This is appropriate, since the outer A + A' panels give a summary of the prophecy, and the narrative of the seventieth week itself. However, the inner B+B' panels are different, they give an account of Israel's history from the sixth century BC to 70 AD.
The central message, though, is reserved for panel C only to highlight the very central thought of all of the seventy-weeks prophecy and therefore of Hebrew Daniel. The central panel C is the arrival of Christ the first time and how He was received.
The B+B' panels frame the central panel. The B panel tells us of events prior to Messiah's coming, including the Jewish people getting ready which includes the rebuilding of Jerusalem. The B' panel, which shows events after Messiah, shows Jerusalem being destroyed.
Panel B talks about Messiah the Prince and in the second panel B' speaks of the people of the prince who is to come, ie. the antichrist. Jerusalem is destroyed by people related to the ruler to come. This was fulfilled in 70 AD by Syrian and Arabian men fighting as soldiers in Roman uniform in the Roman auxiliaries and legions. Rome tried to stop them from burning down the temple. The most inward markers contrast the building Jerusalem versus destroying Jerusalem. Therefore the main themes of the B+B' panels are a ruling prince....Christ or Antichrist.... and the city itself to be ruled, either being built up or torn down.
The central message for the entire seventy-weeks prophecy contained in panel C is that Jesus Christ will be rejected by Israel at a specific time and cut off so He does not rule Israel. Therefore, the B+B' panels are arranged in perfect converging structure to highlight the making ready prior to Messiah's first arrival, and the destruction to occur after Messiah is rejected.
Contrast the central message of Hebrew Daniel:
"And after sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, but not for Himself"
with that of Aramaic Daniel in 4:37 shows a great contrast:
"Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of Heaven, because everything He does is right and all His ways are just. And those who walk in pride He is able to humble"
What stunning contrast!
Daniel 9:24-27 basically says that the Jewish nation will reject their Messiah and have Him crucified. As it says in John 1:11 "He came to His own and His own did not receive Him"
The Aramaic side of Daniel, in which gentiles are the audience, we see the most powerful gentile king praising God and extoling and honoring Him. Though Nebuchadnezzar lived 5 centuries before Christ, the king's testimony is for all gentiles since the message of Aramaic Daniel applies even to the end times as Daniel 7 testifies.
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Chronicles of the end times.... Mark Davidson
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2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:
In 9:27, it is the Messiah (He) will will arrive on the first day of the 70th week and begin His ministry.
I have to disagree with you on this Charlie.
Let's look at Daniel 9:26:
2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.And the first part of 9:27:
"And he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week"
So the "he" in 9:27 is a pronoun..... and the closest antecedent before it is in 9:26..... "the people of the prince who is to come"
And you have identified that the "prince who is to come" is the "little horn"
Then in 9:27..... " he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering"
The "he" is a pronoun and the antecedent is once again the "prince who is to come"
Had the scripture instead read "and after the sixty-two weeks, Messiah will be cut off but not for Himself, and the people shall destroy the city and sanctuary..." ...... then yes, the next few "he's" would refer back to the Messiah.
But because another character is introduced, ie "the prince who is to come".... you would need an antecedent to clarify who it is that is being talked about.
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On 3/21/2024 at 7:31 AM, tatwo said:
We have been living in what I call a 3:30 world for a long time now and we were trained for that in many ways. 3.5 minute songs, commercials, video segments and it has all crept into the reading genre now as well. Anyone familiar with the TL;DR To Long Didn’t Read…yeh if a document or writing or post “looks” to long…people often time will bail on the whole thing.
Yes... so true.
They would watch some reality TV show or a movie..... but read an article?.....Nah!
Tic Tok ..... Tic Tok..... Tic Tok...... that's where its at today. Stimulation for the mind!
On 3/21/2024 at 7:31 AM, tatwo said:Then the climate change hoax…I am not denying that “climate changes” or that it is changing…but the whole CO2 carbon dioxide emissions concern that is happening is completely absurd…the greatest deception since 2020.
Bill Gates was said to have said to "cut down 70 million acres of trees in order to fight climate change" (whether true or not)
Trees eat carbon dioxide and release oxygen.
You're right, it is completely absurd. Climate changes in cycles. El Nino and La Nina for example.
Was there climate change in the dust bowl of the 1930's?.... Well nobody attributed that climate change to anything. It was natural.
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I have for years been telling my friends and family members and warning them of the dangers that I see coming upon the world.
Their response:
"Oh Joe, you're just a conspiracy nut.................. You read too much.................. Where did you learn that from, the computer..........
Oh uncle..... oh dad........ oh brother....... etc etc.
A very few have listened.
One day they will look back and say...."you know, I think he was right"
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On 3/15/2024 at 12:38 PM, tatwo said:
the primary theme of all the scriptures Genesis through Revelation…the Father bringing forth in His image and likeness…who He is…into creation in the form of a son…this is so humanity can interact directly with the Father…spirit to Spirit…thereby being reconciled back to God
This is gold tatwo.
"this is so humanity can interact directly with the Father…spirit to Spirit"
Scripture tells us that God is Spirit...... That God is invisible....His attributes are invisible.... His creation is both visible and invisible... (Col 1:15 and 1:16...Rom 1:20...1Tim 1:17)
He is way beyond my (our) comprehension in every way. If I dedicated all my days to writing about the attributes of God, I would still never be able to describe them all.
Omnipotent............ Omniscient.......... Omnipresent.......... Omnibenevolent
There were many nights when I would lay in bed pondering God. Then I would say the Lord's prayer.... "Our Father" ....and that's as far as I got. In my thoughts I would try and understand what that really meant...."Our Father"...... and I would fall asleep with thoughts of Him. Night after night was the same....for many months.
"From eternity past" ..... ya, that doesn't compute. It's too much for my tiny mind to grasp.
"The invisible God" ...... pretty much the same.... does not compute. But I believe it.
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33 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:
This may not be as difficult as it may seem. During my study of the book of Daniel this was something that needed to be addressed.
So, please consider:
1) In verse 9:27 Daniel tells us that the Messiah will be “cut off” (crucified) in the midst (middle) of the week.
2) The Messiah was baptized in the Jordan on the first day of the 70th week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy.
3) Within these (or any) 7 year period there must be no less than 7 Passover Feasts. It doesn’t matter when the first one begins within that 7 year period, there can be no less than 7.
4) Although some may argue that the term “midst” does NOT have to mean exactly right in the middle of the 7 year period, we can confirm that this term “midst” DOES EQUATE TO THE DAY OF THE PASSOVER IN THAT PERIOD / YEAR (can not have more than one Passover Feast in any one year).
5) Thus, if the Passover Feast (time of His crucifixion) is in the “midst of the week,” then there must be 3 Passover Feasts BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER THE ONE HE WAS CRUCIFIED.
6) The only way this can work is that the Messiah was baptized on Day 1 of the last week (7 year period), and here would be the Passover schedule for this last week:
a) Day 1 - baptized in Jordan,
1) next main event would be His 40 days in the desert being tempted,
b) Day 180 - attend 1st Passover (it is now 1/2 years into His ministry,
c) Day 540 (180 + 360). This is one year later and is His second Passover (it is now 1 1/2 years into His ministry),
d) Day 900 (540 + 360). This is another year later and is His third Passover (it is now 2 1/2 years into His ministry),
e) Day 1260 (900 + 360). This is another year later and is His fourth and final Passover while on earth. This is the day of His crucifixion (it is now 3 1/2 years into His ministry.
f) There would be 3 more Passover Feasts to honor within the remaining 3.5 years of the last week or 7 year period of the prophecy. And this would have meant the 7th Passover would take place exactly 1/2 years BEFORE the end of the 7 years.
This also symbolizes the Messiah would fulfill the first 4 Holy Festivals during His earthly ministry- Passover to Pentecost. The last 3 will be fulfilled at His second coming. He will arrive on the Day of Trumpets.
Charlie....
John records Jesus' ministry..... from His baptism to His crucifixion.
John records Jesus attending only 3 Passovers.... and 3 other Feasts.
Where are the scriptures to support Jesus attending 4 Passovers?
What about scripture to support Jesus' baptism to His first Passover being 6 months?
With all due respect brother, I see your explanation as conjecture, without scriptural evidence, trying to support a theory.
And as Mr. M stated.... there is also support for a one year (+-) ministry.
But a 3 1/2 year ministry is what is generally held by the vast majority (99%) of people, and I reckon you don't buy into what the vast majority of people believe.
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1 hour ago, Mr. M said:
Luke 4:
17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah.
And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.John 6:4 Now the Passover, a feast of the Jews, was near.
In John 6, he is purposely pairing the account of multiplying
loaves, with Jesus later teaching "I am the bread of life".
There is no necessity to assume another Passover is occurring,
unless he stated, "the following year, when the Passover was once
again upon them". He is simply stating as he recalls that miracle,
that the time of occurrence was as the Passover approached.
In chapter two, He is in Jerusalem for the feast. The miracle took
place in the wilderness in route.
In chapter 11, the time of the Passover "was near".
He was crucified before the feast.
Here is why I accept that the "acceptable year of the Lord"
was one year. He went to Jerusalem 3 times as required by Law
during times of feasts. Each time He confronted the citizens
and the leaders. They rejected Him. Are we really to believe
that He said "No? Okay, I will be back next year for the
"acceptable year of the Lord" round two? I do not.
I won't debate scholarly interpretation, but "a time, times
and half" in Daniel does not convince me that what He
said in Luke 4 should taken in any way but literally.
Yes I have read many commentaries about Jesus' ministry being only about a year long.
Could very well be.
The thing is that we aren't told how long Jesus ministered for.
John's gospel seems to be the closest chronology.
I just don't buy the 3-4 year ministry.
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7 minutes ago, NConly said:
Correct this does not address my question.
My quoted verses starts after the Devil left Jesus verse 11. And yes Jesus went to John and was baptized and the went to live near Galilee of the Gentiles. Soon after reach Galilee of Gentiles he heard John was in Prison which I read John was in prison less than a year. It is my opinion Matt 4:17 is the start of Jesus Preaching the Gospel as ( he did this in public in Galilee ) he started while John was in prison and john being in prison less than a year before being beheaded imo John would have died within the first year Jesus started Preaching the Gospel.
Ok.
So what are you saying about the length of time of Jesus' ministry? Is it less than 2 years....more than 2 years?
I'm still not sure of the point you are making. Sorry.
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5 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:
Except the gospel stories don't start on the Passovers, so it's longer than 2 years. I didn't think it matters honestly. If Jesus accomplished everything in the gospels in 2 years, that makes it even more impressive.
True enough.
If we read John 1 and 2, we see a time frame of what?... maybe a few weeks, lets say a few months before the first Passover.
That's still only 2 years and a bit, not even close to the generally accepted 3 1/2 years..... which many people need to support their Daniel 9 theory for instance.
Of the 4 gospels, John's is the only one that gives us the timeline..... from the first Passover (there about) to the final third Passover.
And does it really matter?
Well, it's like the crucifixion on a Friday and the resurrection on a Sunday. Jesus said He would be in the heart of the earth just like Jonah was in the belly of the great whale for 3 days and 3 nights. Friday to Sunday just doesn't add up. But that's for another topic.
Thanks for your dialogue.
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5 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:
The generally accepted time is between 3 - 4 years because 3 separate passover events are listed in the gospels. However I'm not dogmatic about it, just like people say Jesus was 33 when he died, but I don't believe that's provable.
Yes.... three Passovers are recorded in Johns Gospel.
That could easily be two years as is shown in the OP.
First Passover to the second Passover is ONE year..... second Passover to the third Passover is another year. Two years in total.
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5 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:
How would Jesus's ministry change the amount of time given in the bible for the end time persecution of the saints?
It would be very hard for you to be able to change what is written about the time period.
A time,times and a half a time.
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time.[b] When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”
I don't see this as being relevant.
You do?
Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming
in Prophecy
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