Dan_79

15 minutes ago, Heart2Soul said:

And that would be the church of Pergamum? or even Thyatira both guilty of allowing teachings that led the flock astray...the answer is there....God has a warning....who would employ a wolf? Those who cannot discern or rightly divide the truth.

Look this thread is addressing the church...the ones who are supposed to be seasoned in the knowledge and truth of God's Word....the ones who are responsible for training up the babes in Christ....so to start bring every what-if's into this is futile in that it takes away the purpose and intent of accepting responsibility as servants of God to teach His Word to the new believers.

Yes. I read your post, found it interesting.

Jesus said he use his angels to collect his flock from amongst all nations over the earth, for they are truely scattered.

Bricks and mortor buildings with their denominations only seek to divide and thus conquer the believers.

Consider the stubbornness to ever be united and each pride themselves on their difference! Or that the most financially successful seeks tribute from all the other denominations.

These do not make up the body of christ. 

I am aware people say the Catholic church is the false church, in doing so they become blind and more trusting of the others.

I'm only saying.

Hi guest (welcome to the forum).

Was this found in Ireland by any chance or dug from the hill or Tarah?

Notice how it "works"  for every-body.

What about (mr nice but dim) the blind overtrusting Christian who due to lack of eyesight or warning (read foresight) employs wolves to guard over the flock he was entrusted to look after?

God will search our hearts, each will tell its story.

Some people feel guilt more readily than others if they do something quite bad others feel more guilt over less, some people show no remorse for harming others or doing bad while others show extreme remorse and judge themselves to death, others again are quick to anger and express negative feelings others wouldnt say boo to a goose or harm a fly.

Strong in spiritual battle are the meek.

God gives the intructions to live by and Jesus gave us a perfect example to follow and will be coming to collect his faithful flock.

The battle line has been drawn in each and is at the very heart of the matter.

On 29/04/2018 at 6:48 PM, Yowm said:

Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—
(Gal 1:1)
For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
(Gal 1:11-12)
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;
(Gal 1:15-16)
For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
(1Co 11:23)
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
(1Co 15:3)
And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
(2Pe 3:15-16)
 

Let me ask you this. Do you believe Paul's writings are as much inspired as John's, Peter's, Matthew's etc.?

As unbelieving Jews they called that curse upon themselves.  Paul says when any turn to Christ that curse is lifted as it was lifted in Paul's case (being a Jew).

Paul is writing about himself and writing to jews to be witnesses to this revelation he says he had from Jesus.

He had access to the early church scripture before his revelation also, he spent his earlier years persecuting those who called upon Christ and probably had confessions...

But Paul did not confess all in his letters...

If you cannot sincerely distinguish between Israel and Jewry you will fall into the same trap I did.

I read a "wordsworth" dictionary today, 1994 re-print of a 1988 copyright.

I looked up the word "Jew" and it confirmed the same...

Namely the term Jew is "either/or" adherent of the religion of Judaism or an Israelite. 

LOL

A minor issue to some...

But this is another trick...

John did not fall for it but put a warning in his works...when he wrote Revelations. 

Also if you read what the Jew (an adherent of the religion called judaism) tells you about himself you get another clue regarding Johns prophetic warning:

These are who are known and identified as International
Jewry today; they themselves state that "Modern Jewry is
Edom." There is Edom [Esau is called Edom in Genesis 36:8.
And Edom is in 'Modern Jewry' Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925
edition, Vol. 5, p. 41.

29 minutes ago, Riccardo said:

Hi Dan,

If you think Paul teaches a different philosophy  you would be saying that ALL scripture is not God breathed & Paul should not be in the cannon of scripture, or he is not from God, I would say he is clarifying 

Hi, I would say search your bible and ask as many questions as you feel you need to ask and when you think you need to conclude double check.

Many people here will argue this and that and I am glad they have a critical mind to ask me also. It is very thorny asking questions regarding peoples beliefs, par of the course in my view (it is a forum at the end of the day). I do nlt expect to make any friends here but why should that stop my learning about the bible and my own salvation or that of others?

John gives a warning regarding this "other" Jesus being preached as does James.

The bible is very clear on that.

I dont call Gods commandments or the work of Jesus into question.

Jesus clearly says to the pillars (his chosen) of the gospels to refrain from doing sin after you believe on him.

Pauls letters do speak some about some, in 3rd person narratives. There are plenty of resources online who explain why Paul was in error and why he felt the need to cover his tracks. John gives a brilliant warning. I guess you need to make up your own mind.

One thing you will learn is how hostile people are as soon as you question anything they believe in, something I still do not fully understand but is why I question Paul, if you are correct what harm can scrutiny on such an important issue do? If I am incorrect what harm can it do to read and study what others offer to correct me?

The truth is always standing at the end no matter how much obfuscation people try to use. 

The more hostility there is on an issue the closer you are to observing what people say and why they say what they do.

I am still searching for truth (elsewhere also) as it doesnt harm me to do so and to do good works and keep the commandments (that reflect my faith in the Lord) I will continue to do.

If others think I. " not saved" they are acting as some arbitary judge ahead of the Lord and will be made to give account of such which is why I refrain from doing so.

Keep searching.

Keep asking.

Settle for no substitute.

5 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Quite sanctimonious, you can't judge yourself? 

Why not, you have already judged Paul and thus you have judged the Gospel given to the Gentiles.

Rome may welcome you with open arms, they seem to trust in their works.

I am not worthy of your awards brother Yowm.

I judge the letters of Paul, as did John, James also and when I explained why (along with your admixture of Jew and Israel as a minor issue) I was left still asking for clarification on Johns take on Peter which went straight over your head as you claimed it to be off topic.

You can have the last word if you want. 

21 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Please answer. Which good works and how many good works do we need til we finally earn salvation?

Brother Yowm, 

I cannot be the judge of myself (as you already know right?)

Are you asking me to set my own limit? Lol

I have faith so according to Paul I'm saved already regardless ....right?

58 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Which good works? How many good works must you add to Christ's perfect work to be saved?

Not Christ, I am saying our own good works reflect our belief if the belief is genuine.

Saying "I beleive" and then sinning is a poor demonstration or example to other people. No?

11 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Paul uses both Jew and Israel interchangeable, a minor issue.

Rev 3:9 is important because in Paul being a "Jew" only, he cannot be ISRAEL and Peter allows the wolves into the fold by applying ISRAEL to include Jews, which John warned. 

Israel and jews are NOT indistinguishable.

Jews are still known by proxy of usurping the holy land.

ISRAEL (the people) where told to move north and west of palestine

They "Jews" will try to claim the inheritence of ISRAEL as prophesised.

Peter endorses Paul (the "Jew")

But it isnt a minor issue, salvation being of faith only.

If you have faith and good works you are not denying faith in the proccess

Yeshua said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love me more than these?"

He said to him, "Yes Lord; You know that I love You."

He said to him, "Feed my lambs".

He said to him a second time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love me?"

He said to him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You."

He said to him, "Tend my sheep." He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love me?"

Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?"

And he said to him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You."

Yeshua said to him, "Feed my sheep.

Most assuredly I say to you, when you were younger, you bound yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch forth your hands, and another will bind you and take you where you do not wish."    John 21:15-18

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

So you are conceding that Paul does not contradict Peter?

Why do you ask? Basically the natural descendants of Jacob, and a 'true Jew' is a natural descendant of Jacob who believes by faith as Abraham did.

No.

Im happy to read what you have given me to read and digest it when I feel I understand it better I can comment on it and perhaps say thanks to you also.

Paul denies them their real name which God gave them: ISRAEL.

Notice not all Israelites were from Judea or from the tribe of Judah, certainly not adherents of Judaism and calling Israelites Jews invites confusion.

This is what John tells us in revelation.

I think it is important.

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

A specific example where there is a variance or contradiction please.

I have already.

Read my posts in this thread.

“For we believe that a man is justified by faith even without works of law” – Romans 3:28

3rd attempt.....

What do you mean by "Jew"?

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I gave you many Scriptures of Peter affirming Paul, and Paul's explanation. But you just seem to ignore them. As a student of Scripture how do you account for Peter praising Paul if Paul and Jesus are at odds??

Peter praises Paul in which books or letters?

38 minutes ago, Yowm said:

@Dan_79 Sorry, meant to ask, "In what area is Paul's writings different from Jesus?"

No worries.

He advised we submit ourselves to the government.

Jesus explicitly taught his fathers instructions commandments etc

26 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Jesus taught faith alone. John 3:16.

Who taught you to pit Jesus against Paul? Which Church? Group?

? Your direction of enquiry is taking an adhominem route now.

I just read the bible. 

I like the neutrality of non denominational reading as it removes the bias and division and confusion that satan enjoys so much.

I am not scared to ask questions, it is a duty to deduce truth from falsehood.

John clearly states the truth shall set you free.

24 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Why? That has nothing to do with the OP.

Because its helpful?

For clarity of discussion?

Standard practice of between two people having a discussion?

Why wouldn't you? 

I have asked more than once, I have explained why it would help me (and other readers) with regards to the multiple examples synonymous with this specific word can cause confusion (even deliberate).

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

In what area is Paul's writings different from Paul's?

?

Ready to define a Jew yet?

20 minutes ago, Yowm said:

But you are a judge of Paul by stating Paul is inconsistent with what Jesus taught. Why did Peter approve of Paul if Paul was inconsistent with Jesus? Maybe it is your interpretation that is inconsistent with Scripture?

Lol

Im judging what of pauls writings yes, you bet!

I am not Pauls judge

He teaches faith only.

At worst I can only kill the flesh. Hardly above God or a good work is it? 

Perhaps the truth about scripture finds others upset. (challenging peoples beliefs) 

If Paul is telling the truth and doing good works then what terror should visit Paul?

20 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Let me ask you this. Do you believe Paul's writings are as much inspired as John's, Peter's, Matthew's etc.?

 

This is what I am trying to find out. The truth would be good.

Im still at this point confused as to what the term Jew actually means in these scriptures.

Rev warns there are jews who say they are jews but are not (but do lie).

This is important for chronology of the books are Jesus before Paul who is before John.

Hence I ask for clarity on this term or word.

Until I know...at best it reads..

Paul a Jew (?) writes a letter about himself having recieving revelation from Jesus from his own admission only (no witness testimony of the event from at least 2 or 3 people) written to Jews(?) that in substance is at variance with other disciples (after slating them)  and with Jesus?

Jesus showed me that even some of his closest couldnt be trusted!

1 hour ago, vlad said:

A special point. Good works or bad works are of extreme importance in case of leaders of nations. They can lead  whole nations to either peace or disaster. As we know from history much depends on them. What should the Christians do? Wait and see what will happen or warn them if something is wrong? I think they should not be afraid to express a warning. 

Have they got ears to hear?

If they have they are serving God as they hear his instructions.

If not, they are batting for the Palestinian imposters earthly government.

41 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I'm sorry to see yourself not lining up with 1Jn 5:12-13. Also if your only hope is in Jesus Christ then Jn 5:24 also applies...

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
(Joh 5:24)
 

John 5:24. Reads ...

God has the last say. I doesn't guarantee my salvation unless I :

A: Believed the word of God AND 

B: Followed through on what he commanded me to do (demonstrated my belief by deed or works that reflect such belief). 

C: Been judged on that dreadful day

Mathew 5:18 Basically outlines this.

The second death is for those who are not risen in Christ but die eternal.

15 minutes ago, Yowm said:

That's why I ended the post with IMHO, and no, Jesus did not teach about generational curses. As I said, He took the  curse due to sin...

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
(Gal 3:13).

If you are asking, did Jesus teach Gal 3:13? Yes, He taught it to His disciples, Paul didn't make it up out of thin air.

Yes its ok, people automatically think I am trying to catch them out, when really I just want to learn why people believe what they do by making them think about why.

So if Paul did not make it up out of thin air who or what was guiding him to preach what he did?

What did Paul have to say about the blood curse in Mathew 27:24-25