mlssufan01

I can't seem to shake this notion that the majority of women, especially attractive women (even Christian women), only want the stereotypical bad boy--tattoos, motorcycle, cuss word, slept with more than a dozen women....even their religious background is not important. Having been subjected to secular culture, it is apparent that the secular man will, in many cases, specifically pursue the goody goody Christian girl, and rejoice at all their successes...and what's worse, in most stories, they tell of a woman who pursued them first. I should point out, that these accounts seem pretty reliable, as they do make note that not all women are like this, and have found the are deeply devout girl who would completely reject them, but for the most part, these bad boys are successful and bringing Christian women to bed. But my problem is, why do women fall for it? There are plenty of upstanding men in the church, and yet, the women reject the men who regularly attend church, pray, read their Bible...even the outgoing ones that share their faith. While I don't claim to be good, I don't go out of my way to be evil...but I have noticed a few things: When I first attended church as a non Christian...women were all over me...until I converted...then they wanted me no more...until I had an angry moment where I yelled at the entire church to be quiet as pastor was vying for people to sit down and I was annoyed....I remember very vividly that day being approached by several attractive ladies. I also remember being pursued only when I would leave the church for a while. Recently, a Christian girl said she wanted to befriend every single coworker of hers...I didn't agree this was necessarily a good idea, but that she should be careful...even though she was annoyed at first, she and her friend began texting me 5 times a day...when I responded nicely, asking how their day was...they backed off. I know nobody is perfect, but at some level this makes me feel like I have to be a degenerate if I actually want to find a woman to marry.

I can recall that day when I first felt called by God through Jesus Christ; the miraculous events that led to a new heart wanting to know more about God and Jesus Christ. And within the first few days, I pored over the Gospel of Matthew (because, let's face it, it's the best book in the Bible, and I struggle with pride); there were beautiful words; in particular the Beautitudes--specifically the verse that says "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God,' as an overwhelming rush of desire to make things right with everyone I had wronged over the years came about...though I had thought that wasn't very many. But more than this, two little words were illuminated like nothing else. The words were "stop sinning." In context, it refers to a promiscuous woman caught in adultery; but what did I know, this was my first time reading I hadn't developed any sort of spiritual practice. I just read the Bible, and here were words I couldn't fathom. Stop sinning. The only Christian I knew said that my translation was hard to understand and the only thing that matters is if a church teaches the name Jesus. I couldn't help but wonder if that was true, what was the point of the entire book? I hadn't yet come to passages that mention even demons believe in Jesus. And in the face of this comment from my friend, the words "Stop sinning" kept resonating. I had no idea why. I knew there was something there...but I couldn't quite figure out what...surely we can't truly stop sinning and be perfect...so why was it there? Did the adulterous woman change into a perfect person after her encounter with Jesus? When I first looked at Paul, he seemed completely changed into a perfect being (mostly because I hadn't actually read the entire Bible at that time). So as I continued reading my Bible and looking for answers, I would make sure I "wouldn't sin" everywhere I went. If I saw a piece of trash in the park, you can rest assured I would stop dead in my tracks and make sure that park was "cleansed from all unrighteousness." And then "it" happened. I know the Bible says to love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you...I assumed that meant non-believers. I had already experienced the mocking from my own immediate family for my newfound faith; so I thought this verse was reserved for them, and maybe some other haters...I never expected lifelong Christians to spew forth venomous hate...yet that's exactly what happened. I felt completely justified in what I had been "doing" and who I "was" because I "wasn't that bad." I hadn't cussed in years, didn't party, do any illegal substances, wasn't having sex, and was generally "the good kid who stayed out of trouble." By staying out of trouble, that means living in constant fear and rarely interacting with anybody. It's easy to be on your best behavior if you avoid everyone else's behavior. But then came people who believed they were saved by grace...but had no knowledge of repentance or righteousness. Nor did I. Once my friend's accusations hit me with insult after insult, basically rejecting me for things that were not even sin. I felt as though me, the little new Christian, was being persecuted by the Christians. And yet, rather then "restoring gently" I began reviling, trying to show my friend all the things the Bible said that said they were dead wrong! I felt justified, because I "hadn't done anything wrong." But I was devastated, I lost my family for my faith and lost my only Christian friend because of my faith...so all those "sins" I never did? I did them. Not only did I do them...I did them with all the other "so-called Christians." In one event, even the brother of my then friend by mere chance. I drank with them...sang worship songs while intoxicated beyond repair, smoked weed illegally, had sex with one of the church leader's daughters. I felt guilty...but nobody knew what repentance was there. When I went to college, the very first Bible Study they had was about repentance and forgiveness...and thats when I realized that justification does come from ourselves or other people; justification comes from faith in Jesus Christ alone...but faith is marked by obedience...and one they key elements to Jesus is that he is not only Savior, but LORD; if we have not made Him Lord, then there is no way to repent; it is only in recognizing His Godliness that we find pardon for our sin; and His ability to change our lives through that which He was revealed through His Word.

I had a conversation with a friend the other night, basically she told me why she left church and stopped believing, how she had all the right answers but didn't actually believe any of it (she had grown up Catholic tho), and how now she believes every religion is true for each person individually, and only believes Jesus existed as a historical, non-deistic man; and I knew if I was being biblical about things, I should have presented the Gospel, or at least defended why the Bible is true. I wish I could say it was because she was working and we were in public and I didn't want to raise a scene; but if I'm being honest even in private I probably wouldn't have defended it; it just made me realize that I'm still a). learning a lot of things and b). I've always had some mixed feelings about the Bible; in particular when it comes to homosexuality. I do not deny the Bible (at least the English translation) says it is sin; but I also don't understand why God would act so condescendingly towards a sin that is legitimately a struggle for the vast majority of those people. I think it would be very rare that a person says they are trying to be gay. I try to think how Jesus would handle something like this; and I don't think it would be through rebuke. I've also often wondered how we came to terms with casting out homosexuals, when in fact, in original Greek, and in the time period, the word didn't exist. The word that is used is arsenokotai, simply meaning male beds; typically used when referring to male prostitution; some reference the verse about men defiling the marriage bed by chasing after other men; but 2 things here; there is the possibility that the defiling came from the adultery/cheating itself, or because often times these acts were orgy sex parties; so there's no concrete point that homosexuality in and of itself is a sin. So why was this act deemed a sin? If we look at when the Bible was translated into English..1526 by William Tyndale, we discover that around this time, King Henry VIII is also issuing death warrants to many people for many reasons; to William Tyndale and Martin Luther for their protest against the Catholic church, as well as many death warrants for the act of homosexuality. But I see something very peculiar--in 1395, John Rykener was arrested for being a transvestite prostitute. Prior to this, King Edward the 11 was killed, and was regarded and remembered for his homosexual relationship with a man named Gaveston. So there is an issue here that was very likely a huge subculture of homosexuality within England just prior to Bible being translated. The act of prostitution is essentially a means, albeit a sinful means, of gaining money. These acts were often public and lewd. So it would make sense, that the first English translation of the Bible, would spew forth anti-homosexual translations of a term that seems to have only rejected premarital sex, prostitution, and possibly public indecency, but never the lone act of being a homosexual; but rather, perhaps the Bible was translated with anti-homosexual jargon due to a predisposition of negative views of the surrounding culture.

It seems as though this concept of Boundaries, preached by Henry Cloud, is becoming incredibly widespread these days...I've had my suspicions, but could never quite articulate things well...however, this blog from someone who, to the best of my knowledge, seems to be Calvinist (not 100% sure), seems to put into words what I had trouble expressing. cloud visited his church and this is his review: http://thetrustworthyword.blogspot.com/2016/07/a-response-to-dr-henry-clouds-sermon-at.html

In reference to being willing to change...all of us need to change something...nobody is perfect, we need each other's help. .Sometimes you don't recognize your sin and sometimes I don't recognize mine. If I can identify it, I can change it. If you can identify it, and gently point this out to me, I can then change. When nobody can point to where change is needed, even among church counsel, then perhaps we have a separate issue. Perhaps someone thinks something is sin when it is not. Perhaps someone thinks something is not sin when it is. This is why you need more than one pastor, more than two people, sometimes more than three people.

Here are some references, though admittedly, only some of them are actual direct references to the author himself, while some are just stories of those who either dealt with the man or heard radio stories...so most would not consider it worthy evidence. The Youtube Videos, however, point to his use of one-sided arguments...in this video we see a caller badmouth her mother, and Henry Cloud supports her boundary, despite never talking to the mother. In the following website I would forward you to the comments, as it exemplifies my narrative of people's commentary on boundaries. While I certainly can't point you to any 100% fullproof source indicating their truthfulness, I would concede that there is enough witness testimony here to at least call his method of boundary-giving into question: http://pastor-ricks-musings.blogspot.com/ As for Henry Cloud saying people called him selfish, this is found here. Edited by George -- Placed the videos on the videos forum and linked to the page below.

I am not the author of the article...it was written by another Christian author, so those are not my words. I think it's more along the lines I think we can set sinful boundaries as well. I'm not saying all boundaries are bad, but I am saying some are. Besides this point, setting a boundary doesnt stop someone from crossing that boundary. You tell a child dont touch that stove, it's hot, they still do it. This is a good boundary. But you can also tell a child to never eat apples because they ate one that made them sick, when in fact most apples are healthy. This is a bad boundary. What I am saying is boundaries are created by humans who still implement human nature in their boundary making. Hopefully that makes sense.

When my pastor said he was implementing boundaries, my mind went to a million different places...were they right, were the boundaries sinful, am I overthinking this, why won't they reconcile, it feels like they won't forgive me when I'm willing to change. Have I even done anything wrong? What I tend to do when I look a Christian resource that isn't the Bible...is ask how has it affected people, both positively and negatively? Even if I disagree with it, is there any truth anywhere to be found? That's sort of where my thinking went with Henry Cloud's books on Boundaries...All of the supporters are those that give boundaries...there is not one positive review by someone who said boundaries were implemented and it helped them see the light...The vast majority of reviews are either those who gave boundaries...those who were hurt by boundaries, or those who regretted giving boundaries. I have yet to find someone who was thankful someone gave them a boundary. However...I also must take into account the sad reality of the worst case scenarios...rape, murder, abuse, surely it would be wise to place a boundary on these people, wouldn't it? I frantically searched Scripture hoping that God would show me the truth. I saw some vague interpretations...such as Jesus getting away from crowds to pray, or going to the temple, to the frustration of his earthly parents, but nowhere did I see Jesus ending relationships, in particular with his disciples. I saw his teaching of going and being reconciled, which by definition is the restoring of relationship. Many people refer to Paul and Barnabas having a division, but even this, I could not find instruction...only an account of events. The only actual teaching of boundaries was this: in 1 Corinthians, a man was engaged in incest with his mother, and had no remorse or repentance...Paul instructed Corinth to remove him from fellowship, to be handed over to Satan. However...in 2 Corinthians, Paul instructs them to reconcile...to forgive him, welcome him, and comfort him, so that he may not despair..can you imagine...having to associate with a sinner who committed such a heinous act? Yet that is what God said there. I began searching all cases of boundaries...a concept which did not originate in Christian circles, but finds it's origins within mental health and psychology...boundaries was a hot button topic in the 80's, while Henry Cloud's book wasn't published until 1992. I seriously questioned a lot of his behavior...as it seems to me people rebuked his theology and he just didn't care. People told him he was selfish and he essentially said there was no way he could possibly be wrong on this; while I don't think he's all wrong...an attitude of this manner struck me as extremely dangerous. I began to decide that boundaries were not really good or bad...they were amoral...they can be used righteously or sinfully. I see Henry Cloud very swiftly instructing couples to divorce without proper marriage counseling or even discussing matters with both parties; I also read the countless hurts of those who were engaged in his ministry..he seemed extremely dangerous. Then I discovered an article by Ed Welch...and his take on boundaries really hit on a lot of what I was feeling. It's about a 10-page essay, but I feel it is quite a good read, and a much better approach to relationships with a more biblical view of boundaries. I would appreciate feedback. https://womenscareministry.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/boundaries.pdf

thank you. How do I go about getting out of newbie status? I frequent the chat but idk if that does anything.

When I try to log in to chat it says not available for this account...but I can see there are people active in chat, so it doesn't seem like server is down. I received no warning or notification that my account would be blocked, and I don't believe I have violated any TOS. What is going on here?