Tigger56

Bloodbought, you have never answered my previous questions to this post so here are a few... You state that your wants now line up with God's wants. What are his wants? What do you do to show believe and love to God? You seem to put trying to live "good lives" as something horrible, do you not try to live a good life? If so, how? You preach, rant, etc... but still don't give particulars. I doubt I will get a straight answer from you but most that have posted on this subject still won't answer basic questions as well. These being.... Which commandments are evil? Which commandments do you not keep? If only truth would be told for it would all come down to one that you have a problem with and that is the 4th one. When God made the seventh day holy, by what authority does man make it unholy? Where does it state in scripture that the Sabbath was no longer holy? You can debate law and grace all you want it still comes down to the one commandment that all seem to have a problem with! You seem to follow a "pick and choose religion".

I noticed you never attempted to answer my questions.

Not sure if you are reading the posts. But what scriptures do you want? There are hundreds that mention the Sabbath, do want to begin with those?

You wrote, once again a long dissertation. Which is a problem because I usually respond in a briefer manner, but this time, here comes my dissertation. You indicate at the previous post that you are referring to that I ignored "Brother, I don't know how to make it any more clear, ...did you even read what I said? In the very first sentence I agreed with you in saying, "the Lord made the Sabbath Holy!!!" So, short, sweet, concise and to the point!" Sounds good, however, you also stated in the previous post that "the only "unfortunate" part is people fail to receive that the "Holy Sabbath" is not a day," Those were your words.... I responded to those by stating that the Sabbath was indeed a day and a day made holy. So now I have your new response. Now to more questions....Yes, Moses did relay the words given unto him by the Lord teaching them of the Sabbath, but he taught them not the "Jewish" Sabbath but God's Holy Sabbath. Israel was a chosen nation, a nation that was to be an example for the other nations to follow. Unfortunately, Israel failed and followed the traditions and gods around them. Whether I am a Jew or not doesn't matter since the Sabbath is to be observed by all of mankind. But since you seem to be interested then I will share with you that I am descended from the tribe of Judah. But whether I was or not, doesn't matter in regards to keeping the Sabbath. No I don't meet in a synagogue, we have churches that keep the Sabbath as well. I meet with a wonderful, loving group of people who all observe the Sabbath. You now want to know if I am circumcised? Getting to the private parts, but yes, I have been circumcised. And yes, physically and spiritually. But once again.... Israel didn't exist when God created Adam and Eve, yet he established the Sabbath for them to follow. Next question... Do I turn on my light, cook food, etc.... now you are looking to the burdens the Lord spoke of. You must understand in Ex. 35:3, that at the time Israel was eating manna, they were told not to gather wood or manna, and cook on the Sabbath. This past Sabbath, I did eat, but no wood gathered. I did do the work of turning on a light switch (I rested afterward since it was so manually exhausting! Humor intended. But I don't cook large meals, I do not work. It is a day of great rejoicing, worship and of rest. From sundown Friday to sundown Sabbath, I keep the Sabbath holy. Not by the traditions and burdens of the Pharasees, but by honoring my God. I go to services, I spend time in prayer. I worship my Lord. I keep His day holy as commanded. You seem to be trying to come up with the excuse that if you can't keep anything perfectly that you should just ignore it. The Lord honors the heart and the effort. I truly do keep his day holy as commanded. If I fail, then I know I have my Lord Jesus that forgives and sees my heart and my effort. Over the years, I have known what it is like to walk a different path than most mainstream Christians. As a child I was taught the Sabbath. It prevented me from taking part in school sports and many other activities, but I desired to obey my parents and my God. For a time, I left it when I went into the military as it was a difficult thing to do as they do own you as it were for the time you serve. But eventually, my parent's God became truly my God and I chose to obey and follow. The Air Force officers I served under all honored my desire and I was able to observe God's holy Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday until my time was served. Stoning..... ah, aren't you glad that isn't allowed in our nation. Stoning was the law established for the nation of Israel as other laws were. The stoning was for direct disobedience of the law given. If stoning was the punishment enacted by our government, then I expect a lot of people would be keeping the Sabbath! But that was a national law but did denote the severity of disobedience and rebellion. You appear to be looking for justification.... so what ever helps you sleep at night is fine with me. We do all work out our own salvation, but it does say with fear and trembling. Not sure if many people get that part. I don't chose to "ignore" any of the fact that the Sabbath day is holy. I don't pursue my own interests, I don't work and I do honor and worship my Lord and serve him on that day and serve his people. Tell me, what effort are you making to keep the Sabbath holy as commanded? You seem to be saying, "Oh Lord, I can't keep it perfectly.... so I will do one better... I won't keep it at all!" Sound drastic that you want me to be placed in a box of manure, after being stoned and then planted with a tree. If that were to happen to someone that attempts to obey the Lord, what happens to the ones that ignore it completely? Your analogy, not mine. I have attempted to answer all of your questions openly and fairly. Now back to a question to you. You seem to justify not keeping the Sabbath as you do not believe you can keep it holy. What about the other laws and commandments of God? Do you feel that if we fail in any of them that we should then ignore them? I ask this for the impression I get from your question is that is your reasoning about the Sabbath Day. If that then is a reason not to keep the Sabbath, then why did the Apostles keep this day? Paul keep God's law even when under "house arrest". During that time it is doubtful that he could go to a synagogue but yet continued to keep the Sabbath. The Apostles are shown to have kept the Sabbath and the Holy Days, at no point do I see any of them saying, I can't keep it perfectly, stone me, bury me in manure and the rest of you quit trying.

BloodBought, You seem to be getting more and more angry. This is never my intent, so I do apologize if I have caused this. I love to discuss varying beliefs, but have no desire for an angry debate. Let's see if we can tone it down a bit, what do you say?

Frankly, I am amazed that you are allowed to post in this forum. You say you are quoting but you seem to be attempting to speak for God (a pretty lofty position I would say). We seem to have a problem as to what you call "legalist". I belong to the Lord Jesus, He is my Savior, Messiah and King. In my belonging to him I obey him. I love him and thus keep the word, the truth, the law and the commandments. The law doesn't save but disobedience doesn't either. The Lord Jesus saves but He expects, demands obedience. What do you obey if not his commandments? If you believe "issues" are the belief and obedience unto my Lord.... then Praise the Lord.... I have issues!

You once again take a lot of words to try to prove the Sabbath as not being holy. It proves my case and point that all who declare the law is done away with have no problem with any of the 10 commandments other than the fourth one. But let us see if God considers the day holy. First back to Genesis 2, the word "sanctified" see the Hebrew word and meaning .... qâdash kaw-dash' A primitive root; to be (causatively make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): - appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied one, self), X wholly. Total KJV occurrences: 171 Seems like an important day, never saw the Lord set any of the other six apart like this. Of course the Sabbath is a day, try looking at the calendar and you will note a day, a 24 hour period known of the Roman calendar as Saturday, the Sabbath. Throughout scripture when the Sabbath is mentioned it is often mentioned as the Sabbath day. Yes the Sabbath was taught to the Israelites that it was holy. They had been in Egypt for generations and had lost much of the truth and had to be retaught God's law. It is God's law not simply Israel's. Try reading Leviticus 23:1-4.... the Sabbath and the Feast or Holy Days of the Lord are actual days and they Belong to God and yes, God declared them Holy, set them aside and sanctified them.

Wasn't an accusation, just indicating my impression of your words, please note "almost seems" in my previous post. Then in this post you indicate the words "angers" "sickens", then stating that squashing gives you "delight", then "throw them out". The "accursed". Sorry but my impression by the tone of your words is that you have issues.

Glad you took it as a compliment, not meant as an insult just an observation. I do understand long preaching. I know Paul once preached through the night. But when in conversation, I like a little less reading. I guess I could print your dissertation and go through it line by line, it will take longer but may give it a try.

I am curious as to how many of you interpret this scripture.

too long, try to narrow down your questions to one at a time, other wise It seems like I am reading an epistle. So I will respond to the first question. You agree that the Lord made the Sabbath holy. That is a start. Your question was for whom.... Genesis 2:1,2 .... for all of mankind seems to be shown here. It was a pattern taught to Adam and Eve and was suppose to be taught through the generations, unfortunately it wasn't.

I agree, two wrongs do not make right, nor do three, four, etc.....

Here are the words I responded to.... Sabbath Keeping or think they are Justified because they were gifted with The super long memories and the good fortune to Repent Of all their sins before they died , WILL get what they deserve. Hell.

Not meaning to be hateful, but for someone to be so quick to declare those who keep the Sabbath are going to hell seems to be uncalled for don't you think? I think discussion should be made without declaring those who keep the Sabbath over Sunday or those who believe in the law over those who don't as being condemned. Don't you think that those comments are uncalled for?

That sounds like a "pick and choose" religion. You follow God's wants as long as they fit your wants not the other way around it would appear. What do yo consider God's wants to be? Be specific please, a list would be nice, would love to know what the wants of God are, what does he expect of a Christian in your way of thinking?

Sad, you almost seem to delight in the thought.

interesting..... Romans 14:10 uses the word "all".

I agree. The law will not and can not save. Salvation is only through our Lord Jesus, there is no other way! I keep the law to show my love for my Lord not to replace him. Jesus is essential, without Him, there is no hope.

. Actually don't believe you desire to walk in sin. I was simply answering your post. You are the one who stated based on Acts 15:29 that nothing else was required of us. In regards to all the day, I thank the Lord each day for life and begin each day in praise. However the Sabbath was made holy and is a very special day of the week, every week for me. It is a day made holy by the Lord, He is the one that set it aside and put it at higher importance than the other six. It wasn't me. Only God is make a day holy. The Sabbath is a shadow of the millennium rest but that doesn't make it less, it makes it more for it carries blessings and symbolism. Don't you think that if God makes something holy that man shouldn't so easily toss it aside with human reasoning? It is also interesting that you mentioned the judgment seat. If all law is gone, if we can do as we want, nothing required.... then what are we being judged for?

Fasting is biblical, The Lord Jesus even talked about fasting to his disciples. However, to approach any kind of fast as a "bucket list item" isn't a reason for fasting!

Dear JustpassingThru, your post: Is not the question of "keeping" the Law a subject covered in the teachings for the Church, ...I can't find one verse in the Word, after the Day of Pentecost, that tells us we have to keep the Law, ...instead what I read is the Church is "not" obligated to "keep" the Law. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Acts 15:28-29 Can you see that bro? Just three things we are told to do by the Holy Spirit! I also had to respond to this quote from you: Think about what you are saying here! You truly believe you can commit adultery but not fornication and it is okay? That all the commandments such as coveting, murder, false witness, breaking the Sabbath are all okay to break, that all I have to do is abstain from meats offered to idols (boy that will be an easy one!) I don't drink blood and I haven't strangled anything in my life.... (once again, soooo easy!) I will also definitely stay away from fornication (if not, the Lord won't have to deal with me, my wife will!)? I don't think you truly believe this. You need to read the words within context. The Sabbath, etc... wasn't under question. The Jews wanted to place the Gentile under the requirement of circumcision and other traditions that they followed. The Jews at the time would place unreasonable burdens upon anyone that tried to follow the way of God.

I never thought you were questioning my faith but thanks for saying so. I feel anyone being led by the Holy Spirit would then naturally keep the law for the law is the holy word of the Lord. As Paul, I bring my body under subjection to run the race, this is done by God's spirit within me. It isn't my fleshly power, whenever I make the mistake of seeking my own strength in a matter, I will typically fail. But with his presence, his spirit, his power, his strength, his love, his faith then I run, I soar, I conquer and yes.... I obey. You do misunderstand, you seem to feel that the law is a burden. The curse of failing, being condemned to death was a great, huge burden that none of us could remove, but our Lord did it in his perfect obedience unto the law and his perfect sacrifice. The law, itself, is not a burden, it is a blessing. How can I ever explain the joy of the Sabbath? It is impossible unless someone keeps it! I look forward to it each week! Not a burden. I yearn for the Holy Days, they are filled with joy and power! Not a burden. I rejoice in knowing how to show love unto the Lord and do it each day with joy! Each day, I seek to lay my day upon the altar. The scriptures are plenteous that indicate that the law was kept after Pentecost. Even the observance of Pentecost and the receiving of God's holy spirit on that day confirms the law. The Lord is telling me to keep the law both in his perfect example and words but also by their holy spirit leading me. If the holy spirit is telling you not to be obedient, to seek rebellion then perhaps you need to ask yourself some questions as well.

Not sure what all of these scriptures are posted for in regards to this conversation.... but hope you feel better.

You seem to be ranting. At me? not sure. I live and preach both in words and actions that Jesus is our Savior. Without his grace, without his love, without his sacrifice I would be as one with no hope. So I praise my Lord and I obey him. In that obedience I follow God's perfect laws.

Don't mean to confuse. Yes, I keep the 10 commandments. I also keep all of God's holy days. I also observe the dietary laws. I believe that Paul kept God's law no matter who he was with. He didn't observe all of the Jewish traditions, one being that they thought they shouldn't even sit and eat with Gentiles. No need to be sorry, don't feel that you are being argumentative at all. You are being inquisitive and that is being as those in Berea, see Acts 17:11, I do need to spend to time with the Lord right now in prayer so if you write again don't worry if it takes me a while before I reply. Hope you have a blessed Sabbath day.