BibleGuy

"The entire O.T. is Law per Paul and Jesus." I doubt you have any proof that Paul or Jesus considers Ecclesiastes or the Song of Songs as "law". "Deal with it and keep all of it." Of course! 2Ti.3:16 "Don't be a piecemeal Law keeper." I never was! Obey it ALL (2Ti.3:16) to the extent possible in this present diaspora of course (Jas.1:1). "Get with it." Amen! You too, brother! Mt. 5:19 "Hey, what tribe you from....you have not mentioned it yet?" Why assume tribal identity is already revealed to all Israelites? I see no good reason for that assumption.... Besides, we have evidence that you may CHOOSE. blessings...

Of course not! Why do you say silly things! This passage is written by PAUL who requires all TORAH (2Ti.3:16). That's referring to the NEW COVENANT which is given as TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). This passage opposes the letter without the spirit.....so do BOTH! TORAH (Rom.2:13) and the SPIRIT (1Cor.6:11) TOGETHER for justification. After all, the Spirit leads us to obey TORAH (Heb.10:15-16;Eze. 36:27;Is.59:20-21;Rom.8:13 + Rom.8:7). And we have LIFE (Mt.4:4) because we OBEY (Mt. 4:4 citing Dt. 8:3 referencing TORAH). Not death! LIFE is in OBEDIENCE (Dt. 30:15-19;Lk.10:25-28). DEATH is in DISOBEDIENCE (Dt.30:15-19;Mt.13:41-42). So OBEY!

"So, the O.T. Law is combined in the N.T. Spirit?" SAME TORAH in Both Covenants. Otherwise Jeremiah 31:33 is a false prophecy (given Dt. 13:1-5). SAME SPIRIT in Both Covenants. God only has ONE Holy Spirit! The SPIRIT leads us to obey Torah HERE (Ps.51:10,19) and HERE (Heb.10:15-16). BOTH. SAME. "you just crucified the son of God afresh and put him to an open shame." Don't be silly! Try again. This time with a good reason....not just an unsupported opinion. "You just told Jesus, you choose both covenants...." WRONG. The OLD Covenant passes away (Heb.8:13). The SAME TORAH passes into the NEW Covenant (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8). SAME Torah (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). NOTHING in Hebrews 7 contradicts the Biblical position I've set before you. Try me! blessings...

"Or, is this verse found in the ACTUAL Law?" Not that I know of.... That's why it's reasonable to seek an alternative conception of "law" to explain Paul's usage of Isaiah. blessings...

"When we get Christ, the Schoolmaster leaves." OOPS! When you get to Christ, you OBEY HIS COMMANDS (Jn.14:15) which require TORAH (Mt.5:19), or else you are NOT His disciple (Jn.8:31). "Then we have Christ alone." OOPS! You also have Christ's WORDS which require TORAH (Mt.5:19) or else you are NOT His disciple (Jn.8:31). "We are no longer under the schoolmaster, not even kinda. " Agreed! But that's NOT the only function of Torah. I gave you BIBLICAL EVIDENCE of another dozen ONGOING Torah functions.... But, as typically, you IGNORED those Biblical reasons.... Gotta say....not very impressed with your responses.... blessings...

"Is this the Hebrew Roots translation?" What's that? And why assume Paul only defines " νόμος " as the written Torah of Moses? After all, sometimes " νόμος " has a different meaning.... " νόμος " is not ALWAYS so narrowly defined. blessings...

You can't commit a death-penalty-warranting crime and expect to continue living!

I'm not Paul or Jesus....MAYBE they would consider Ecclesiastes law...MAYBE NOT.... Let's ask them when we get the chance! It doesn't really matter....ALL Scripture applies to us (2Ti.3:16)....whether you want to call it "law" or not. ALL Scripture is inspired by God and thus of divine authority. So do what is says! Until we ask Jesus or Paul then, minimally, TORAH (Jer.31:33) refers to the TORAH OF MOSES in the New Covenant, and that's good enough to rebuke the anti-Torah religious establishment all around us. Let's return to truly authentic Torah-obedient faith as required by Jesus (Mt.5:19) and the apostles (Mt.23:34) for all disciples of all nations (Mt.28:19-20). blessings...

OOPS! The letter WITHOUT THE SPIRIT kills... That's why Paul requires BOTH! SPIRIT (1Cor.6:11) and LAW (Rom.2:13) TOGETHER for justification.

Well, I don't know if we have 100% proof for that one.... Jesus viewed Psalms as "law". The Torah of Moses is (by definition) law. Genesis is not the law of Moses...but still has some laws. Ecclesiastes is true, but not really "law". Song of Songs is quite interesting! But not really "law". But ALL Scripture is required (2Ti.3:16)..... So I'm not sure how important this issue is.... I guess we can ask them later.... Minimally, TORAH (law) in Jer.31:33 refers to TORAH OF MOSES (and thus the PROPHETS and PSALMS by extension)...and that is good enough to rebuke the widely anti-Torah religious establishment all around us. Let's return to truly authentic Torah-obedient faith, as required by Jesus (Mt.5:19) and the apostles (Mt.23:34) for all disciples of all nations (Mt.28:19-20). blessings...

TORAH is foundational. The PROPHETS are an extension, including the Psalms, because the Psalms are prophetic too. Other writings (like Proverbs) are still Scripture, upheld by Paul and Peter, for example, but of a lesser status in the overall hierarchy...but still true and inspired as Scripture. Call it "law" if you want....it's just semantics really. ALL Scripture (all writings) apply to us (2Ti.3:16). blessings...

Or would the implementation of God's death-penalty laws REDUCE the practice of such sin, thus resulting in an INCREASE in widespread repentance? Thus, I'll go with God's law, to the extent possible while in diaspora.... blessings...

Paul cites Isaiah as an extension of law..... Why? TORAH authorizes the prophets (Nu.12:6)....so the prophets are simply an extension of God's lawful authority.

Jn. 10 has Jesus citing Psalms as Law....because the Jewish establishment at that time understood that the PROPHETS are authorized by TORAH (Nu.12:6).. And, the Psalms are rightly identified as Prophetic.... Thus, the authority of the Psalms as "law" derives from the Psalms as an extension of the Prophets which are authorized by Torah. AND! Jesus says that the Psalms CAN NOT BE SET ASIDE OR BROKEN (Jn.10:35).... Thus: 1. JESUS requires Psalms (Jn.10:35) 2. Psalms require TORAH (e.g., Ps. 1;19;119). 3. Jesus requires Torah (from 1 and 2). That's ANOTHER reason for us to obey Torah! Because that's what Jesus believed and taught. blessings...

"Can't find "Torah" in the Bible." Then learn Hebrew! כִּי זֹאת הַבְּרִית אֲשֶׁר אֶכְרֹת אֶת־בֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל אַחֲרֵי הַיָּמִים הָהֵם נְאֻם־יְהוָה נָתַתִּי אֶת־תֹּֽורָתִי בְּקִרְבָּם וְעַל־לִבָּם אֶכְתֲּבֶנָּה וְהָיִיתִי לָהֶם לֵֽאלֹהִים וְהֵמָּה יִֽהְיוּ־לִי לְעָֽם Do you see it? " תֹּֽורָתִי " is Hebrew for "my Torah" The noun is TORAH: " תּוֹרָה " By the way, this is JEREMIAH 31:33. The VERY NEW COVENANT inaugurated in Christ's blood (Lk.22:20). "Who invented that phrase?" Hebrew has been around for a LONG time....4000 years plus? "Who said only 5 books are "Law" books?" Good question. I exclude Genesis from the "written Torah of Moses" because I doubt Moses is the original author of all the material in Genesis. Besides, there are only a few commands for us in Genesis....and even Exodus....until Ex. 12 to Ex. 13....and then FLOOD of commands beginning in Ex. 20 all the way through the end of Exodus, then all of Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. So "תּוֹרָה " can refer to the WRITTEN TORAH OF MOSES (1Ki.2:3) which is generally EXODUS, LEVITICUS, NUMBERS, and DEUTERONOMY. But Genesis is important too....Jesus clearly takes material in Genesis seriously.....so we should too (Lk.6:40;1Jn.2:6). blessings...

You should obey ALL Scripture (2Ti.3:16).

Not sure if you're serious or just trolling..... But TORAH is foundational. Torah sanctions the prophets, thus including Psalms. Torah authorizes the Messiah who upholds the entire Tanach. The Messiah authorizes the Apostles who wrote much of the New Testament. ALL the NT is inspired, given our good reason to trust the Spirit's guidance, and given the widespread uniformity of the NT canon across the major branches of Christianity over the past 2000 years. Torah requires Torah. Torah requires the Prophets who requires Torah. The Messiah requires the Tanach which requires Torah. The Apostles require the Tanach which requires Torah. The entire NT requires Torah. Torah is foundational in the New Covenant....Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16....being inaugurated by Christ's very blood (Lk.22:20). blessings...

" Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart." Ouch indeed! This upholds CHRIST who requires ALL TORAH (Mt.5:19). This upholds the SPIRIT who testifies we obey TORAH (Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21;Heb.8:13 + Heb.8:7). This upholds Torah-obedience from the HEART (thus Paul applies Dt. 30:14 to you in Rom.10:8....that's TORAH-OBEDIENCE from the HEART!) "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." Ah yes....the NEW COVENANT which is given as TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). Not of the letter without the spirit....for that would kill. Rather, of the SPIRIT who testifies we obey TORAH (Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21;Heb.8:13 + Heb.8:7), thus walking in LIFE (Jn.6:63 + Mt. 5:19;Mt.4:4 citing Dt. 8:3 referencing TORAH). Oh by the way, this is written by Paul who requires ALL TORAH (2Ti.3:16;1Cor.7:19). "How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" The Spirit IS glorious! The SPIRIT who testifies we obey TORAH (Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21;Heb.8:13 + Heb.8:7). "much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory." Ah yes..... RIGHTEOUSNESS! We who are righteous obey TORAH (Dt.6:25;Is.56:1;Eze.18:5-9;Da.12:3;Mt.5:20;2Ti.3:16). After all, righteousness is some thing we DO (1Jn.2:29;3:7) or else we are a child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20). " For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." Yes, the glory on Moses face did fade away....along with the Old Covenant (Heb.8:13). The SAME TORAH, however, passes into the NEW Covenant (Heb.8:10 citing Jer.31:33). NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8). SAME Torah (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). "And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished" Yes, the glory on Moses face did fade away....along with the Old Covenant (Heb.8:13). The SAME TORAH, however, passes into the NEW Covenant (Heb.8:10 citing Jer.31:33). NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8). SAME Torah (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ." Sad....many Israelites rejected the Messiah who requires Torah (Mt.5:19)....because many of those Israelites upheld their own bogus traditions instead of TORAH (Mk.7;Mt.23). And many Christians, today, oppose the very TORAH (Mt.5:19) which their Messiah applies to them (via Mt.28:19-20). Sigh...... It's tough to break-free from 1800-year-old anti-Torah traditions.... But let's be brave! Let's actually return to truly authentic Torah-obedient faith, as required by the Messiah (Mt.5:19) and the Apostles (Mt.23:34). blessings...

That's right! LAW #1 DISOBEY AND DIE (Dt.30:15-19) LAW #2 OBEY AND LIVE (Dt.30:15-19) And ALL TORAH passes into the NEW Covenant (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). Good thing we (in Christ) are not under LAW #1 (Rom.8:2)....but are under LAW #2 (2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:19 + Mt.28:19-20;1Cor.7:19;1Jn.2:3;5:3). blessings...

Amazing....Jesus is a LAW-TEACHER (Mt.5:19). Jesus' APOSTLES include LAW-TEACHERS (Gr. " γραμματεύς ", Mt. 23:34). Jesus applies ALL TORAH (Mt.5:19) to ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20) for the New Covenant is given as TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). Gal. 3:1 requires we obey the TRUTH. TORAH is truth (Ps.119:142). So obey Torah! Gal. 3:1 upholds CHRIST who applies ALL TORAH (Mt.5:19) to ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20) for the New Covenant is given as TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). Gal. 3:2 upholds the SPIRIT who testifies we obey TORAH (Heb.10:15-16), even all Torah ordinances (Eze.36:27) "from now and forever" (citing Is.59:20-21 at Rom.11:26-27). Gal. 3:2 upholds the SPIRIT who opposes the flesh (Rom.8:13). The FLESH opposes the Torah (Rom.8:7). So the SPIRIT opposes TORAH-disobedience. So the Spirit leads us to OBEY Torah. So obey Torah in the Spirit! Gal. 3:2 OPPOSES faithless works of the law...but requires HEARING OF FAITH. So have FAITH! (Gal.3:11 citing " אֱמוּנָה "in Hab.2:4). And what is this way of " אֱמוּנָה " Paul requires in Galatians? Answer: TORAH! (see " אֱמוּנָה " in Ps. 119:30,86,138 for proof). "Amazing...Paul called the Law teachers, "witches"." Sure, if they teach law WITHOUT FAITH (Gal.5:4-5). That's why Paul requires LAW (Rom.2:13) AND FAITH (Rom.5:1) TOGETHER, for justification. NOT law alone (Gal.5:4-5) NOT faith alone (says James 2:24). But BOTH. TOGETHER. So obey! Don't get bewitched by crazy people who require law without faith. Rather, OBEY (2Ti.3:16) and have FAITH (Gal.3:11). Walk by FAITH (2Cor.5:7) AND walk in works (Eph.2:10). BOTH. TOGETHER. blessings...

Of COURSE the schoolmaster function of Torah no longer applies to us in Christ, because we in Christ have ALREADY come to Christ! Is the SCHOOLMASTER function the ONLY function of Torah? Of course NOT! Torah is HOLY (Rom.7:12). BE HOLY (1Pe.1:16) means OBEY TORAH. Torah is good (Rom.7:12). DO GOOD (Gal.6:10) means OBEY TORAH. Torah is righteous (Rom.7:12). DO RIGHTEOUSNESS (1Jn.2:29;3:7;Dt.6:25;Is.56:1;Da.12:2) or else you are a child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20). So OBEY! Torah is SPIRITUAL (Rom.7:14). SEEK the spiritual (1Cor.14:1) thus means OBEY TORAH. So OBEY! Torah brings joy (Ps.119:162) which is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal.5:22-23). So obey! Torah is obeyed out of LOVE (Dt.6:5,25;1Jn.5:3;Jn.14:15 + Mt.5:19) which is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal.5:22-23). So obey! Torah brings peace (Ps.119:165) which is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal.5:22-23). So OBEY! Torah is GOODNESS (Rom.7:12) which is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal.5:22-23). So OBEY! Torah is of FAITH (Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138) which is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal.5:22-23). So obey! Torah defines sin (Rom.3:20;7:7;1Jn.3:4). STOP SINNING (1Cor.15:34) thus means OBEY TORAH. So OBEY! Torah is foundational to the New Covenant (Jer.31:33) inaugurated in Christ's very blood (Lk.22:20) for you. So obey! or DISOBEY and face these scary risks: Mt.5:19 or worse (Mt.5:20) or worse (Mt.7:21-23) or worse (Mt.13:41-42) Yikes! Time to obey! blessings...

"Great, you are a righteous man. The Law was not made for you." You IGNORED the context again. The PROHIBITIVE laws are not made for me (i.e., do NOT kill, do NOT lie, etc.) because I am a righteous person who is already obeying Torah which requires good behavior (thus requires no killing or lying, etc.). That doesn't prove that ALL TORAH IS ABOLISHED! It merely proves that RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE OBEY ALL TORAH! Just as Paul elsewhere confirms (2Ti.3:16;Dt.30:14 + Rom.10:8). Jesus agrees (Mt.5:20). The LAW agrees (Dt.6:25). The PROPHETS agree (Is.56:1;Eze.18:5-9;Da.12:3). So OBEY ALL TORAH! "since obviously it is NOT for you, why you keeping it(partially)?" Not obvious at all. You simply IGNORED the PROHIBITIVE-TORAH-LAW context of Paul's statement again. Go back and read the previous paragraph here in this post. I am growing in faithful obedience to ALL presently observable Torah..... The reason we can not obey 100% of all Torah is because we are still in diaspora.... So, we do what we can.....knowing we WILL again obey 100% of all Torah in the future (Dt.30:1-8). "Do you feel akin to the rest?..." I already told you....the DO NOT KILL law applies to the behavior of those who KILL. The DO NOT KILL law does NOT apply to my behavior, because I am ALREADY OBEYING TORAH which requires that I do good things (including NOT KILLING!) Does this prove that DO NOT KILL is no longer in force? Of course not! It merely proves that RIGHTEOUS people are ALREADY OBEYING all Torah! (Dt. 6:25;2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:20;Is.56:1;Eze.18:5-9;Da.12:3). It's simple: OBEY OR DISOBEY. If you disobey, then REALLY bad things can happen (Mt.5:19) or worse (Mt.5:20) or worse (Mt.7:21-23) or worse (Mt.13:41-42) SO OBEY! blessings...

"LOL...Saints ordered to smite the heathen, now?" Punishing sin is not a laughing matter.... It's a terrible evil consequence of terrible evil actions.... "Question...would you burn a homosexual at the stake or stone an adulterer as prescribed by the O.T. Law, if civil laws of the land allowed you to?" If our countries upheld the Torah death penalties....then sin would be PROFOUNDLY reduced, by virtue of the DETERRENT of the law itself, and by virtue of the execution of people who committed death-penalty-warranting crimes. That's a good thing. Why would you not want that? And why do you keep saying "burn a homosexual" or "burn an adulterer".... Lev. 20:10,13 does not require execution by burning. I've heard the claim that the Torah death penalties were, in fact, rarely implemented back in the full-blown Torah-days of Israel.....again confirming that the law was effective in reducing sin. And again, that's a GOOD thing. Why would you not want that?

"The Law" is multiple Laws? "The Law" is partial Law, not all? Interesting....who decides which one to adhere to, the U.S. congress? YOU CHOOSE! OBEY AND LIVE, or DISOBEY AND DIE Two categories of law within the Torah. BOTH categories pass into the NEW Covenant (Jer.31:33). SO CHOOSE LIFE (Dt.30:15-19). So OBEY! OR.... Choose disobedience and death (Dt.30:15-19;Mt.5:20;7:21-23;13:41-42). Choice is yours. Torah-OBEDIENCE is sufficient for eternal life (Lk.10:25-28). That's a good reason to OBEY! blessings...

TWO LAWS: OBEDIENCE or DISOBEDIENCE. They are BOTH IN Dt. 30:15-19. Paul APPLIES Dt. 30 to you (Rom.10:8) thus UPHOLDING BOTH LAWS. But! The law of sinful disobedience and death (Dt.30:15-19) does NOT apply to us in Christ (Rom.8:2). Why? Because we are FORGIVEN of sins (Mt.1:21) and we OBEY in faith (Rom.10:8 citing Dt. 30:14)! Thus, the law of OBEDIENCE (Dt.30:15-19;1Jn.5:3;Mt.5:19;2Ti.3:16;1Cor.7:19) and LIFE (Mt. 4:4;Dt.8:3;30:15-19;32:47;Jn.6:63 + Mt.5:19;Jn.14:6 + Mt.23:2-3,23) is in force for us. NOT the law of disobedience and death. But they are BOTH Torah. That's why you must CHOOSE! CHOOSE LIFE! (Dt.30:15-19) So OBEY! blessings...