Charlie744

I would like some thoughts and opinions on a specific subject within Daniel. Daniel’s 3 friends were required by Nebuchadnezzar to bow to the golden opportunity image when the music began to play. If they did not they would be placed in the furnace. Question: Within this chapter (3), Daniel makes a point of listing the individual instruments. Three times they are listed however in one of the listings he fails to list one of the six. What do you think is the reason why this one instrument was not listed, AND, why was it NOT listed in the specific place- only 1 of the 3 times they were listed? PS: For me, everything He does has a very important purpose / reason, whether something is included or excluded. Perhaps the message speaks to having only 5 of the 6 instruments play (at that specific time in the story) telling us it would not be accepted by Him (5 of 6), since it was associated with an image and He has special uses and purpose for music? Thank you, Charlie

SONshine, I already have done the research on this issue.... Best wishes, Charlie

Disaste, just read your following post... 1) I don’t know how you interpret these comments... I simply said that even IF a 3rd Temple is built, it is not important to God. Actually, what it would continue to tell Him is they (Jews) STILL have not accepted Him and they STILL yearn for the old Temple times.. I am NOT speaking for God— He has made it quite clear that the Temple and the sacrificial system has been done away with... 2) I do not believe I have written or said anything that should have caused you to respond as you have! If I was not clear in my response or if you wanted to drill down to investigate and understand what I was saying, it would be easy to ask a question or two and confirm your initial understanding. That doesn’t seem to be your way! Sorry for that, Charlie

I believe much of what you said: 1) what would you say is more “abominable” than His crucifixion? 2) Jesus was certainly not crucified in the Temple or holy place! 3) when the Temple would be inspected by the High Priest and found unclean, he would return another time for a second inspection. If found again to be unholy, the Temple was to be torn down and the “stones” be cast outside the gate... Leviticus. Jesus certainly came to the Temple twice and found it unclean and He (stone the builders rejected) was crucified outside the gate. 4) your correct, His sacrifice was and is the greatest gift He could give for/to us! It was also the most horrible act or abomination man (Jews) could have possibly done to God and their Messiah. It certainly was the most detestable thing we could do to Him! It was the most loving act the Messiah could have made for our salvation. 5) It certainly was God’s Plan from the beginning of time... and NOTHING happens on earth or above that is without His consent. 6) His sacrifice is available to ALL the world for those who believe in Him. Now, having said these things, there should be no doubt that His perfect sacrifice would trump all and any other possible act or event in history. 7) As a result of their rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah, He would indeed punish them and their “actions” would “cause” their “desolation”. Charlie

SONshine, let me ask you just one question please: 1) in chapter 9, Daniel writes about a “covenant”. Ignoring any other terms attached to this word ( ignore time, etc.), would you please tell me if there are any Scriptures in the OT (Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, etc.) which speak to or about a new “covenant” that will be established with the Jews? Thank you, Charlie

SONshine, that is certainly true- no argument whatsoever! Now, given that principle, please tell me why there are SO many different interpretations at the chapter level, the verses level and also found frequently at even the individual word level? Just because you can make the overall general ( and true) statement, it does NOT make YOUR comments or interpretations accurate or correct... I don’t believe you have understood the comments made in my recent posting... tell me, what is stopping me from making the exact same claim against you—- I could make the generalization you just made and then claim your interpretations do not agree with those found in subsequent books or verses? NOTHING! Scripture never contradicts Scripture... but it you misinterpret Scripture that misinterpretation will corrupt the next Scripture interpretation. For me, 9:26 to 9:27 is so transparent and clear as to it’s intended meaning... I will be able to apply / use this information and interpretation in the manner it was intended and with other messages in the Scriptures where they may be referenced or found... and I will be comfortable knowing (for me) that my interpretation of Scripture does not contradict my interpretations of later verses in the Scriptures. Consequently, I would meet the exact same threshold or requirement that you would make using your own interpretations... But I don’t think you seem to see that! You seem to guarantee YOUR interpretations because you can make a general statement that your interpretations do not contradict your own interpretations.. Which is exactly why you need to go back to square 1 and study Daniel with a clean starting point— not influenced by NT interpretations or those that have obviously corrupted many Scriptural verses / interpretations (which are then used to apply to those OT verses that are still in disagreement among the scholars. Thank you, Charlie

Comment re: the “abomination that causes desolation”..... I believe the “abomination” MUST be something so horrible and almost inconceivable for God to have Daniel writings write this into His prophecies.... those SAME prophetic verses adjacent to those that speak to His first coming, His rejection by His people, those 6 requirements the Messiah must complete before the end of the 70 weeks ( and which are specifically mentioned to be completed in the last or final 7 years of the 490 year period), etc. Consequently, the “abomination” (the act or event that could carry that level of depravity or denigration) MUST be the crucifixion of the Messiah! The physical Temple no longer housed the Holy Spirit- Jeremiah removed the Ark some 600 years earlier). When Jesus came He declared the Temple unholy... After His crucifixion I can not believe ANYONE would contend the Temple would somehow re-gain it’s glory or holiness... There was NO further need for a Temple or the Sacrificial System- they were just “types” that pointed to the Messiah. Whether today’s Jews still desire to rebuild the Temple has absolutely NO importance to God or should to any “believer”. Consequently, and not to get too far off the subject, given the above, there MUST not be ANY interpretation to a “re-built” Temple within Revelation... the physical Temple is no longer relevant even though the Jews of today say otherwise! Just because they have rejected the Messiah and wants a 3rd Temple, this does or will not cause God to consider placing a 3rd Temple in His final revelation to mankind- they have already made the most “abominable” sin, I can not see God using Revelation to bring this “type” to the center of His Plan... makes NO sense! But getting back to the original subject... if His rejection and His crucifixion (again, what on Gods green earth could EVER reach this level of horror), represents the “abomination”, then this event would require Him to punish those that rejected and crucified Him— their actions would indeed cause God to: destroy this no longer necessary or important Temple (regardless of the Jews wanting to hold on to it), the Jews would be murdered and banished/ disbursed into the world, eventually even the land would be destroyed by being “salted”.... Therefore, the most terrific act ever found on earth would be the “abomination”! And as punishment, God would indeed make “desolate” the people, the Temple and the land. Thanks, Charlie

There is so much wonderfulwh information presented within the last few days.... you folks are so talented and knowledgeable!! What I think I see here is a very similar “thing” to that takes place when folks study and interpret the Bible... and NO one is immune to this! In the OT God had given us story after story surrounding the hills and valleys (obedience and also idolatry, failure and success) of His people, the Jews. No two stories were identical or perhaps even similar or even familiar to the other, however they would ALL carry a consistent message or theme. Despite the particular story there could be a message or teaching in one that would conflict to that found in the other... of one thought so, I would simply say they have misread or misinterpreted one or the other. Also, I believe the God would have not sent His Messiah UNTIL He (God) had completed writing ALL the books of the OT for His people (and certainly all of us- but the Jew first), to read / study / learn His commands / reveal all the prophecies about Him, etc., etc. God would never give His class or give us a test before He had provided us with ALL the study materials, ALL the necessary texts and books, and would explain things to ALL His students in infinite detail should they still fail to recognize and understand His Words! Looking back on His curriculum, although His messages never conflicted, He would ensure each class (story or lesson) was given separately ... no different than our many classes in our education institutions scheduled accordingly to the particular discipline. Consquently, since the Jews had a complete set of books and everything they might need to pass the “class”, regardless of whether they succeeded, and unfortunately they did not, we should not ever expect or think any information post the crucifixion could or would be found to conflict or disagree with the OT writings. The ONLY possible explanation would be that our interpretations and one or the other or possibly both readings are correct incorrect! Despite not having any understanding or knowledge of the Scriptures prior to a few years ago, except for some your typical kids stories like the lion’s den story and certainly the crucifixion, etc., I saw / recognized so many different interpretations by many brilliant scholars over the last 2,000 years- and this occurred at the chapter level, a specific verse level and even strong differences on a specific word level. Essentially, big picture was that there is NO agreement on just about everything (except for the simple things like the lion’s den story). There usually are 2 or 3 major or mostly accepted interpretations, but even they begin to separate as their interpretation is drilled down by on! Therefore, after reading all their interpretations AND their “proofs or references” to a gazillion biblical references to support their interpretations, the more I “think I saw or recognized” that the “weight or volume” of those supporting references seemed to almost ensure their interpretation on a certain verse or its “real or intended” meaning. Well, like the previous message to SONshine earlier this morning, I decided to try and study Daniel as though I might have been a Jew sometime in the past (perhaps the early first or even 2nd century AD and see what Daniel should tell me. I would not have access to any NT writings BUT I would have a strong understanding that Jesus was the promised Messiah, He was crucified, He did arise on the 3rd day and His Holy Spirit was given to us, as He promised, on Pentecost. So what do I do with all of this available information in my desire to understand Daniel? Obviously, I study Daniel on its own (yes I would be able to access references in the OT which would be valuable), but I think EVERYONE would agree, God had or did provide us with ALL that was necessary or required to fully understand and interpret ALL the verses in Daniel (with the exception where God has “shut up” Daniel’s ability to understand certain things). Consequently, we should expect to interpret Daniel on its own and determine: 1) who is “he” in 9:27, 2) what does the “covenant” refer to, 3) what or when does this 7 year period relate to or where does it happen, 4) what could the term “cut off” mean and who was “cut off”, 5) what does the 3.5 year (midst of the 7 years) refer to... does this connect with the other words / messages within those same verses, 6) do these words within the same connected / adjoining verses tell a specific story or are they unrelated and all of a sudden go off in another direction giving us piecemeal messages that many would / could and will select (cherry pick) those seemingly unconnected verses and suture them to other verses that are / were never intended to meet up, This was my comment to SONshine and ANYONE wanting to study Daniel (or other books But Daniel is on my plate now). Just unpack Daniel as though no NT books are available BUT with knowledge of the Messiah, Crucifixion, etc. THEN we can expect to arrive at a “pure” Daniel understanding and interpretation. And once this is completed, we will be able to utilize this knowledge and the accurate understanding of Daniel to match up with the writings of Paul, the Gospels and everything NT.... and like everything found in ALL disciplines, engineering, finance, chemistry, etc., it is necessary to find or identify a “standard” or “base” to bounce or compare things to or against. Daniel is the “standard” to use to understand those quotes and verses in the NT - whether they be Matthew or Mark or Revelation.... why? God be is 100% true, accurate and consistent—- NONE of His Words will ever conflict with any other one! First, understand Daniel and then use it to interpret NT verses where they refer or speak to the Book of Daniel. In this way, one can easily see those NT verses that have been interpreted by man for their own agenda and then requires verses in OT (in this case Daniel) to be interpreted to meet those misinterpretations (intentional or not), or misunderstandings. But in so much of what certainly is THE most complicated class in ANY discipline or course study, we have no problem taking a senior level class or two prior to a core class or a required class within our respective discipline in our freshman year. If anyone would use this approach there would not be many disputes re: chapter 9, especially 9:24 to 9:27. Finally, today I read where someone claimed that 9:26 or 9:27 could not be completely confirmed or resolved UNTIL chapter 11 was properly interpreted! This is EXACTLY my point! And absolutely NO is my response to this... 11 will not determine 9, just as Revelation will not confirm or drive our Daniel interpretations! Can not put the cart before the horse... yet just about every commentator is guilty of it!!! (and once again, the difficulty of the Scriptures, the many, many different translations of those same words and verses as well as the many personal “agendas” of those interpreters, and on and on) should tell us all we MUST use God’s Words as our “standard” in interpreting His Words... I guarantee He had a wonderful purpose in writing / presenting the specific order of the Scriptures! Summation: given to SONshine and to anyone interested ... the OT is our standard and we should NEVER expect to find a message in the NT that would EVER contradict His Words in the OT... they MUST agree with each other WITHOUT exception... So, study 9 before 11 ... because 9 will guide 11, not the other way around... but if done correctly, they will compliment each other and fit like a hand in a glove. So stop taking ALL the books of the Bible (OT and NT), and then throw them all down there n the floor and then pick one up (say it is one from the NT) and decide that one takes precedence over one from the OT...this is an example (no, not by any stretch a solid day one but it should get my point across) of how I have found the “approach” used to arrive at their interpretations—- it would never be applied in the business world or within any discipline!!! Best wishes to all, Charlie

RM, thank you for sending this interpretation, but we do not have the same or even remotely similar understanding or interpretations re: Daniel ... and that is why we are interested in spending time within this site- it is nice to learn other’s views! Thank you very much again, Charlie

Thank you very much Spock! Regarding your comments about the RCC, I would respectfully request that you read my post / response to SONshine this morning- it is at the top where f page 10... You are correct that the RCC did NOT write Daniel, however they were responsible for the campaign in the 1500’s which completely changed the interpretations of 9:27, along with the pushing the last week of Daniel into the future (2,000 years). Another requirement relating to this “campaign” was the need to address the “cut off” phrase in the midst of the week (Daniel’s last week)... This 3.5 year phrase in 9:27 also had to be addressed since it was tied directly with the 7 year period. Consequently, it became a 3.5 year (mid-term) period where the fictional anti-Christ figure would fail to honor some 7 year covenant. Read the post at the top of page 10...! I think it is very clear.. For almost 1500 years the consensus was that the little horn was indeed identified as the pope / papacy. The RCC did nothing write Daniel but they certainly re-wrote the interpretation for the identity of the little horn. Regarding the 70 weeks of Daniel... this seems (to me) to be quite easy / clear: 1) 70 weeks or 490 years in total, 2) specifically sectioned into 3 time periods, 3) each time period in years is given and each time period has “things” that are to be completed during them, 4) the final week, or the last 7 years of the 490 years have the most important and meaningful requirements and accomplishments (by far), than the 2 previous time periods / sections, 5) the beginning or start of the last 7 years (last week), The Messiah would be baptized by John... there is now only 7 years remaining for the Messiah to complete those “6 things” identified in 9:24, 6) also DURING this last 7 year period, the Messiah, through Daniel, would predict His own crucifixion (cut off) and also tells us when it would come about- exactly 3.5 years in the last week or “in the midst of the week”, 7) these prophecies were written for the Jews- FIRST, so they might be able to see what would take place! If you were to read the gospels and writings of Paul, you would find how he realized all of this.. but not before the crucifixion, consequently, Paul certainly did identify the Messiah in the book of Daniel... especially, chapter 9... all of 9. 8) Paul, the rest of the Apostles AND just about all scholars, interpreters of Daniel post the crucifixion accepted and understood who Daniel was speaking about...and these interpretations did NOT change until the Reformation. As I responded to SONshine in the post at the top of page 10, if any of us would study Daniel PRIOR to the 1500’s, NO ONE would would have this alternative and grossly offensive interpretation against God ... however, this was also predicted by God ... where the little horn would corrupt His Word (chapter 11 of Daniel), and also found in NT writings. Spock, there you have it! To me it is so clear ... everything that had to be completed / accomplished within the 70 weeks were completed... The Messiah finished His work despite our crucifying Him in the midst of the last 7 year period. However, we should note that He made sure He conveyed to us that He completed His Covenant for us and “we could still gain comfort that we could still be saved” when on the cross, He told us that “it is finished”.... despite the fact we cut Him off before the 7 year period, He still accomplished everything needed for our salvation- those 6 things in 9:24. Sorry Spock, I am also finished... I feel I have written these same thoughts many times over. Let me know if any of this works for you... and I certainly look forward to hearing back from you, Charlie

Spock, I am sure I addressed this in within the last two pages - on page 9 of 10, and also in my response to SONshine today - page 10 of 10. Would you be so kind as to ready posts to SONshine and yourself found in pages 9 and 10? If you still have questions please post me ... Thank you very much, Charlie

SONshine, it is always a pleasure speaking with you!!! And even though we don’t agree very much, we definitely agree that our God is good and is coming soon. Please keep in touch, all the best, Charlie. Have a great weekend!

SONshine, I certainly agree with your comments but I hope you also consider my last message to you sent just prior to your latest post. in any event, you are certainly blessed by God and I am sure He is enjoying every word you post ... perhaps I will need to apologize a few times... Charlie

SONshine, just read your last two posts... I will try one more approach with you since I must not be communicating properly, and let’s see if we can walk through this together: I would ask you to consider interpreting Daniel AS THOUGH YOU WERE BORN IN OR AROUND 100 AD. This would mean that, because you lived in Spain at the time, you would not have access to ANY of the NT books (no gospels or Revelation.. nothing but the OT Scriptures). Further, you happen to be a Jew and you are interested in studying Daniel. Given the above scenario, you would / should have ALL the information per the Scriptures AND the realization of the first coming of the Messiah, His crucifixion, the beginning of His New Church (including Jeremiah ‘s comments on His Covenant), and any other events that center around those specific actors identified in the 4th kingdom. And just as important, you will also accept that the RCC has not come to be at this time, so there is NO concept of the anti-Christ or a future 7 year covenant some 2,000 years in the futureetc. Since this is the beginning of your study of Daniel, what would be your interpretations on chapter 9? Remember, Daniel was written to / for the Jews first, therefore God had to give them ALL the information necessary for them to properly interpret Daniel! Now, regarding your statement you sent me... do you need Matthew or Revelation in order to properly interpret Daniel? I certainly hope you do not think you would need them ... Daniel must and should be interpreted on its own as the Jews would have attempted to interpret it.. but of course, they could not see the coming of the Messiah despite ALL the prophetic words in the OT! Best wishes, Charlie

Sorry SONshine, that really is not a good or reasonable response! If there IS a misinterpretation in Daniel, and there certainly is, then it must be corrected / properly interpreted or it would corrupt any prophecies they rely on.. I certainly agree that, at the end of the day, Daniel MUST agree with Revelation, BUT one must first complete Daniel... The ONLY way your premise works is IF the interpretations of Daniel, as they currently stand, are correct and properly “fit in” nicely with Revelation and Matthew and all the black oks f the Bible... BUT that is so far from the case!!! Revelation is a complete mystery to everyone... no one can provide an interpretation that is even readable yet alone “fits in” nicely with Daniel and Matthew and the other NT books, and that is largely due to the sheer number of misinterpretations AND just plain difficulty in understanding the Scriptures. Hope this makes sense, Charlie. And it is nice to hear back from you even though we are so far apart .

SONshine, regarding your 51 verses of Daniel... I am quite sure that M 24 speaks of things that are to take place in most likely two distinct periods - many will speak of the “end times “, and others might be speaking about the time of His first coming.. So, what specific verses do you believe speak to or about or are tied directly (pro or con) to 9:27? Thank you, Charlie

SONshine, let me understand this... you want me to explain Matthew 24 1 to 51? I have not studied Matthew, but I am trying to complete Daniel. As I mentioned to another individual who wanted me to address a verse in Revelation and why it does not “fit” with my interpretations from Daniel, I guess I might give you the same response... there is NO way to reconcile a new interpretation in Daniel with an old / different interpretation in Revelation.. Apples and oranges! As I had mentioned, the FIRST thing that must be accomplished is to try and correctly interpret Daniel ( assuming one finds Daniel to be quite misinterpreted as I do). But the interpretations of Revelation and maybe Matthew (again, don’t know since I have not studied it), are have been made under the current interpretations of Daniel. This morning Spock asked me about the 7 year covenant made BY THE MESSIAH... The Messiah did NOT enter into a 7 year covenant—- why would He do such a thing? His New Covenant, as a result of His sacrifice, would be available to ALL who believed in Him! The ONLY misinterpretation (but very purposeful by design), would have to be connected / created by the RCC who specifically promoted the “he” in 9:27 as belonging to some anti-Christ figure in order to remove the “little horn” label from the pope / papacy. In order to give this some level of legitimacy, they had to also attribute God’s Covenant to this anti-Christ. Finally, this would also demand that this include the additional language in 9:27 which has the 7 year period—- but it is ONLY a 7 year covenant that would be pushed into the future- some 2,000 years in the future. Consequently, the covenant made by the Messiah during the last week of Daniel’s 70 weeks, and where He would be “cut off” in the midst of the 7 years, was purposely re-interpreted by the RCC as: 1) a 7 year covenant, 2) attributed to some mythical anti-Christ figure who will arise maybe 2,000 years in the future, 3) this same boogeyman will fail to honor this agreement or covenant in the midst of the 7 years, ALL of these misinterpretations have been very successful and accepted by Christians as a result of the“futuristic” campaign by the RCC in the 1500’s by one of their brilliant Jesuit priests- Ribera or Riberi, can not remember the spelling of his name. Prior to this campaign, and due to the attacks on the RCC by folks of the Reformation (and a very specific / identified attack on the pope / papacy as being identified as the “little horn” for the past 1,500 years (including early chuch leaders like Augustine and I think Gerome and Origin—- can be found out easily), they had to get that “monkey” off their back. Now, after all of this and WITHOUT having me stop EVERYTHING I am doing in Daniel, if you have a question or two that I could address from Matthew as it might or might not “fit “ with my interpretations of Daniel, I could certainly give it some attention. One more thing if I may... from my point of view, there is absolutely no way you can support your contention that 9:27 does speak of some anti-Christ OR that it should not refer to the Messiah, His covenant which was promised to the Jews in Jeremiah AND even though I have not researched this I would guarantee that we would have NO problem finding specific language in the gospels and other NT books that speak specifically to His covenant... which certainly would point to the covenant on Daniel 9:27 ... Look forward to hearing back from you, Charlie

Spock, I just read your post and thanks for taking the time to prepare / send it.. I believe I might need to start over with your concern.... Is this correct: you are questioning when did Jesus enter into a 7 year covenant? Is that it? if that is the question then I believe I did respond to this question but perhaps it was not SONshine .... it certainly could have been another individual who is convinced on the historical approach. Anyway, Jesus did NOT enter your into a 7 year covenant with the Jews!!! I was completely surprised to receive that thought by one of the folks- I never even anticipated or seen that interpretation... ever. But my response to them was that Jesus WOULD establish His new covenant with His people, which is THE covenant mentioned in Jeremiah (31 ?). According to chapter 9, He will: 1) per 9:24- He must fulfill or complete these 6 requirements during the last week of Daniel’s 70th week... If you look at the 3 sections of the 70 weeks of Daniel, EACH section has their own items or things that are to be completed. The absolute most important section, the last week or the final 7 years, is where the Messiah fulfills those 6! This is one of the main reasons why the 70 weeks were segmented - this was not without purpose. Before His crucifixion occurring in the “midst” of the last week, the Messiah would still complete them! And in addition to those 6 requirements, He would establish His covenant also WITHIN the final week or the last 7 years! Thanks, Charlie Spock, forgot to mention- the New Covenant was established in the last week BUT of course it would stand forever- until His returns .. Charlie

Spock, regarding your question about if I had responded to SONshine’s posting that referred to both Mark and Matthew.... my response to that (her) was below her posting at the very bottom of page 4.... Hope it answers some of your questions, Charlie

Spock, re: your final response last evening... you are correct- people will see what they want to see or what they think they should see! My original goal was to read as much as possible from the true scholars and commentators on Daniel since I knew absolutely NOTHING! When I recognized significant holes in their interpretations or unusual patterns, I wrote them down. Bottom line- I decided to apply the same principle that I had learned a few years ago: If there was found an error in the Scriptures, regardless of the book, then one should not trust ANY of the Scriptures. So, if scholars and very talented theologians have incomplete incomplete interpretations and / or holes in their “story”, that told me that they do not have the right interpretations (doesn’t mean that some or much is incorrect, but I have found going through 11, they are completely off... again, there is absolutely NOTHING in there 11 that makes sense unless you are willing to accept they speak about the actors in the 3rd kingdom AND there are more than a few verses that even they fail to address and they ignore. That is what frustrated me... I tried to follow their lead but I was not willing to drink their “juice” if they were not able to address / match up ALL the verses to our available history records! I started looking at them as talented historians who focused / majored on the Greek and Roman periods and minored in Daniel. This book requires a major focus on God and all the prophecy’s and writings before Daniel. He has given us all the history we need- He spoon fed us with Nebuchadnezzar, Persia, and a limited Greece- He did not make it a difficult puzzle for us... He was just feeding us “milk” that we could easily see and we were familiar with the taste (our own history). But in the 4th kingdom, He is feeding us “meat”, but we don’t know what to do with it! We are still expecting it to look and taste like milk. And please take note: it is NO accident that He specifically used the term “meat”in 11:26! Now back to your comment re: that the prophecies by Daniel actually took place some 500 years in the future... well they did!!! But that is exactly my point- the historians matched our history to Daniel’s verses (the tail wagged the dog). Because so many rightfully confirmed the actual events re: AE and Ptolemy rulers AND they took place at the time of His he end of the 3rd kingdom, it seemed that all the stars lined up. But, as mentioned above, I read more than a few papers available on the net (while I was studying for 11), where these highly educated folks would compare their match ups to those same verses and idenfied those “holes and events that could not possibly be connected to either AE or some actors in the Ptolemy rulers. Consequently, I went back to square 1 and tried to interpret 11 from a spiritual approach- and since I knew these verses MUST include the beast, the 10 horns, the little horn, the 3 plucked up AND I knew about the crucifixion, the hi-jacking of the new covenant church by the gentiles (lead by the little horn), and I knew of the corruption of His Word by the little horn, I had a decent amount of puzzle pieces that would fit somewhere in this puzzle. But it still was and is such a difficult puzzle (seems like a 10,000 piece puzzle). Hope this makes sense for you very reasonable concern re: those actual historical events and why we might not want to apply them to Daniel 11 - they were / are real, they just don’t belong in Daniel’s prophecy. Best wishes, Charlie

Spock, I have responded to SONshine’s concern re: the AoD and specifically just who is “he” in 9:27... I will get back to you tomorrow, have a good night, Charlie

wing nut, regarding your response to your background..... first, very impressive and I envy your degree AND your ability in mastering / command of the English language!!!! I do not possess either!!!!!!! My strength has been in problem solving and having a excellent ability to see the big picture AND the underlying details within corporate financial management. I am far from land in this area / arena! Anyway, WITHOUT offending you in any way, my initial reaction re: your excellent background and abilities, and of course, you must have wonderful connections within the publication industry, is whether I might be giving too much of my interpretations re: Daniel given my desire or intention to hopefully offer all new interpretations to the public... once again, I am a fish out of water in this environment! Look forward to your response, Charlie

I may have messed up—- getting late! I think I already asked you and I should have directed the same question to wing nut.... wing nut... would you mind? Charlie

Spock, I wanted to ask you the same question I asked wing nut.... would you mind providing some of your background re: your theological/ religious background? Are you a teacher or writer, etc.? Thank you, Charlie

Are you speaking about the daughter of the KOS and the daughter of women in 11? Charlie