Charlie744

SONshine, there are more than a few verses that speak of the “abomination that causes desolation”... certainly in Daniel in a few chapters and in Matthew as you have quoted... One of course is in 8:13 (I believe this may be the first mention...), but would you mind letting me know your thoughts on 8:13? What is your opinion on this and the 2,300 days and evenings? I believe this explains or provides the basis or foundation for all further references in the Scriptures re: AoD... Once again, this is from Daniel and is also one of your the most difficult and controversial passages in Daniel which are applied to later interpretations. Look forward to hearing back from you on this, Charlie

Thank you! Charlie

I fully understand and you have been more than kind in responding to my post and offering your views! Chapter 11 is son difficult but also so interesting... And, if you find the time and interest, can you let me know who the identity of the “contemptible person” might be in 11:21? I find this might be the “little horn” (papacy). Thanks so much again, Charlie

Thank you for sending me this... you must have a lot of information in your files from your research on Daniel... Unfortunately, this indicates an approach to match the pronouns in a very similar manner as those that created the “currently accepted” interpretations which have produced AE and the Ptolemy rulers. But the reading you have just sent focuses on attempting to match the pronouns to future actors. Personally, I don’t believe God is interested in wanting to identify specific actors like Russia, Islam, League of Nations, USA, etc. The “battle” will ALWAYS have some man’s name or a different “man’s kingdom”that is willing to take the side against God and His Plan of Salvation. The underlying actors or kingdoms have and will change during the past 2,000 years. These pronouns could, and most certainly were, attributed to Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, and others. And could easily be applied at times to the UN, USA, and now China or the EU. Once again, and I apologize for continuing to repeat myself, God could have easily have easily identified the exact actors ... past or future, if He wanted to... We keep trying to identify and view these verses at a “6 foot level”. Remember, He has given us the actors that are relevant to the 4th kingdom; beast, 10 horns, little horn, the 3 plucked up. And these actors are only the concerned and involved in the corruption of His Word or Plan”. If you are willing, would you mind taking verses 5 & 6 only and give me your interpretation or identification of the actors / meanings of the phrases ASSUMING they will reflect a more spiritual approach versus a purely historical approach that gives us today’s “accepted interpretations”? It will be very difficult and you may not have the time or interest (which would certainly be understandable), but I have found it is extremely rewarding to TRY and identify these pronouns under this approach. I can assure you that I may not have correctly identified each actor (yet), but there is absolutely NO doubt this chapter is to interpreted in a spiritual manner versus an historical one. Thanks again for taking the time to read these thoughts regarding this new interpretation / approach —— the approach is so right but the identification of the pronouns are still extremely difficult—- and this is even though we know the limited actors and all of the historical events that took place. Best wishes, Charlie

Once again, very kind of you to spend the time and consideration to offer your thoughts on 11.... which I totally agree with you- it is THE most difficult chapter in Daniel..... by far! And if this was simply another “historical” writing of what most believe- a compilation of a few relatively unimportant post Alexander / pre-pagan Rome rulers, there would be no reason for such a cryptic writing. God was quite clear and transparent in identifying the first 3 kingdoms.... He could easily have continued doing so in the 4th.... But the 4th was a not about man versus man, or another of man’s many terrible conflicts, whether during the 2,000 years or at the end of the 2,000 years. It has to represent the “explanation or the details” of the 4th kingdom which means the 4 actors of Daniel 7 at least; the beast, the 10 horns, the little horn and those 3 plucked up. These all have been “in play” after the crucifixion and continues to the very end. The last section of 11 and certainly all of 12 speak of the end when all of man’s idolatry, disobedience and continued warlike nature has reached it’s end with God. I would respectfully request you might take another look at my earlier response (abovees) to R. Hartono. Verse 5 begins The speaking about these actors and events which also begins in the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome at the time of His crucifixion. Specifically, verses 5 & 6 speak of the coming together of the prince and the KOS at the “end of years”. This is the Messiah (prince) joining with the Jews (His Word) that WILL produce a “great dominion”—— and the WORD became flesh! This takes place at the “end of years”, meaning the end of Daniel’s 70 weeks (during the last week of weeks). The “daughter of the KOS” is is His Church but was rejected by both the Jews and the world... look deeply into verse 6... His agreement or better yet, His COVENANT will not stand or be retained or have “His power”, and will be truly “given up”. There is so much scriptural / biblical messaging being given to us—- we just need to match these to His Story and NOT to any one or series of a “man’s story. God could have easily revealed the specific names for ALL the pronouns used in 11. But this is what He May have meant when He said, “both of that much of Daniel will never”shut up” until the time of the end, and, “knowledge will increase at the time of the end”. Our eyes have been closed to see Him in 11! I believe He is now opening our eyes since we are coming very close to His 2nd coming. BUT, He certainly would not come UNTIL He allowed us to fully ve understand 2 of His most important books: Daniel and Revelation! I have completed the first 10 chapters of Daniel and have spent 7 months just on 11... that is why I have reached out to this very talented Christian community—- to help me identify all of these “special” pronouns, and since we ALL know the actual actors and events that have taken place since the crucifixion, we (collectively) could easily identify them with a high high degree of comfort... BUT, it requires the participants to start with a clear mind without the belief that 11 speaks of an AE or some Ptolemy rulers. So, if any of the very talented Christians reading this might would like to see if this new interpretation speaks of His Plan of Salvation, please let me know and we can study each verse individually- I believe I may have completed the first 15 or so verses and am working on the 2nd major / distinct section of 11 - this represents the “transition” from pagan to papal Rome and the rise of the “little horn”. Thank you very much for taking the time to read this long winded response and I certainly hope to find some of you that might be willing to help me with these pronouns, God bless all, Charlie

Thank you very much for your thoughts! Who would you say is the “he” that is giving “him”? Appreciate your time and opinions, Charlie

R. Hartono, thank you very much for your response! Obviously, you were kind enough to take the time to research and addressead who the “ daughter of women “ might refer to... Actually, I am completely convinced that chapter 11 is in no way a “historical “ reading. Rather it is a “spiritual” and not literal interpretation. I am working on Daniel and have completed the first 10 chapters. Chapter 11 happens to be the most complicated and misinterpretated chapter Daniel, and what you do with 11 will also affect one’s interpretation within Revelation. If you notice there are many “scriptural, biblical and even messianic” terms, words and phrases within 11. Here are just a few: 1) daughter of the king of the south, 2) shoots of her roots, 3) establish the vision, 4) daughter of women, 5) do that which his fathers’ fathers have not done, 6) many more... These are not terms or how phrases normally applied or associated with secular activities or events. All of these terms “fit” with a spiritual interpretation that is centered around the actors and events of the 4th kingdom—- verse 5 and thereafter have nothing to do with those actors and events found in the post Alexander / pre-pagan Rome period. If we might concentrate on these special terms we might readily be able to identify just who the other actors are — since we certainly know the actual history of the Messiah, how the Jews rejected Him, how the Jews and the Temple were destroyed by Titus,how the Jews were sent to the gentiles to reveal to them the one true God, how the Christian gentiles hi-jacked ( if you will), the Christian Church from, how this new Christian Church corrupted His Word / Church ( RCC or little horn), then we can see how these terms must or should be interpreted. The above mentioned special terms along with the actual historical events that we are all aware of ALL pertain and speak of the actors that are only found in the 4th kingdom; 11 is THE chapter (it is the only one left and that clearly addresses the 2nd coming of our Lord), that MUST include and address: 1) the beast, 2) the 10 kings, 3) the little horn, 4) the 3 plucked up. Chapter 11 is an explosion, if you will, of the 4th kingdom. The most significant error made to date is that we have attempted, and been somewhat successful, in trying to match these verses and terms to some actual / historical characters that would have existed around the post Alexander period. But getting back to the original concern as to who the “daughter of women” might be.... it would be the church (adulterous church) which would in fact be corrupted by the “little horn “. There is so much more to say re: this “spiritual versus “historical” interpretation, but I am still in-process in trying to complete 11! Hope this makes some sense even though this response only provides a brief summary of this new interpretation of 11. Again, I appreciate your time and thoughts, Charlie

I am not sure I could receive a better / more wonderful comment... I can assure you that I will be getting the best from these exchanges.. I hope you find a desire to look into this new interpretation of 11... and I certainly would be agreeable to reveal the new interpretations for the 8 or so enigmatic verses found in Daniel and listed in the word doc I recently emailed you... I can assure you that you will be completely surprised and hopefully see Daniel in such a brand new way... thanks again, Charlie

Sister, I wish I had your breath of Scriptures and understanding... I mentioned earlier that I have recently (12 months ago) began to read and try and interpret Daniel. And I thought that chapter 10 was the most difficult.... that is until I began 11... I have been trying to unpack 11 now for the past 7 months... slowly getting some of it. if agreeable, I would like to ask if you would allow me to send you an email with a word doc attached. It is my interpretation of 11 so far. I think I have unpacked 11:5 to 11:15, and I am struggling some with the next few verses..... if you have an interest in going over this interpretation and offering some of your thoughts that would be wonderful. If not, for whatever reason that is fine as well since everyone has so many things to do and deal with each day.. let me know and if interested, you can send / contact me at kincadect@hotmail.com Charlie

Sister.... thank you very much! Would you agree with this- the churches were corrupted— “they became adulterous churches”? Great information! Charlie

In the Torah we find a few terms - Sons of God and Daughters of Men. However, in Daniel 11 there is a term (only found here) of the “Daughter of Womener ”. ASSUMING this is NOT a term that might refer to a “ daughter “ of a ruler / a king, etc., can you folks offer some Biblical/Sriptural/Jewish interpretations for this very specific term? Look forward to your thoughts and thanks in advance!!

Once again Sisterw I thank you very much for your time and consideration in answering this and providing your opinion! As you know 11 is a very difficult chapter and has more than a few interpretations. At this time I believe that God has yet to reveal/unseal Daniel and of course Revelation—- the closer we get to His second coming the more He will release our understanding.... regardless, He is coming soon and I am glad you are a strong believer and follower of Jesus. God bless you and yours and I hope we can continue to learn each other’s views in this, Daniel, and other verses... Charlie

Thank you very much for your prompt response Sister! I have provided just the first verse (5), from chapter 11 showing a new interpretation- which is certainly completely different than all others which contend most of 11 is just another history lesson provided by God in the last 2 chapters of one of the important prophetic books of the Bible. Chapter 11 is not concerned with a minor group of people that have no purpose or importance in His Plan and important prophetic capital - the AE and/ or the Ptolemy folks are part of and within the 3rd kingdom- although at the end. The 4th kingdom begins with pagan Rome and where the actors and events must occur and certainly continue with those already revealed to us in the 3 previous chapters- 2, 7 & 8. Chater 11 and 12 is an explosion of detail (but it is not written in an historical way since it is truly prophetic and spiritual- not literal interpretation giving us a simple history lesson before His 1st coming. The actors and events of the 4th kingdom start AFTER the 3rd kingdom of Greece (which includes the 4 territories post Alexander). Verse 11:1 - 4 identify and complete all the discussion of the first 3 kingdoms which were provided in detail in the previous chapters. Now God wants us to focus on : 1) the 2 iron legs and feet/toes of iron and clay which is pagan Rome. There is no gap or transition between the stomach/thighs and the 2 legs of iron. Further, I’m chapter 7, we should notice that the 3rd kingdom represented by the leopard also includes the 4 wings (4 territories after Alexander). They are not part of the 4th kingdom and not a “transitional” power or entity between the last 2 kingdoms. God has specifically revealed the players and operating characteristics of each of the kingdoms (including beginning and ending points). Now, regarding the 4th kingdom... it must begin with the 2 legs of iron which is the same power as the beast in chapter 8. Then we find 10 toes in chapter 2 which corresponds to the 10 horns in chapter 7. In chapter 2 we find the stone that will come and destroy the image - this certainly is God Himself coming at the end of time. However, we find His combatant (little horn) in chapter 7. This little horn (papacy), represents the leader, of you will, of the “spiritual “ war that takes place on earth between His 1st and 2nd coming. These actors and events occur in the 4th kingdom only and this is the most important message within Daniel- the period where the Messiah arrives, He is not accepted by His people, He turns to the gentiles, there is the corruption of His covenant and His Word by the papacy. The destruction and damage from His church by the little horn... Chapter 11 & 12 is the most important prophetic message- that being those “things” that will take place during the last 2,000 years and concerns His Plan of Salvation. I have started trying to unpack 11 for the last 7 months and have learned it must not be and can not be a focus on anything other than His Plan (events) between His 2 comings. I listed just 11:5 to get some responses knowing they will mirror your response- because that is essentially what everyone has accepted. But this one s because everyone has interpreted 11 from an almost historical perspective- many ( but certainly not all of the important verses match up to the historical records of AE or the Ptolemy group). This has been our only approach- look at it in the same manner as the first 3 kingdoms. But the 4th kingdom is quite different and is not a literal view - it is spiritual... God has not identified the name of the kingdom nor the king as He has done for the first 3 kingdoms. Also, please look at much of the very specific terms, phrases and words used within 11 to identify the actors or kind of events - God does not do random, or coincidence, or makes mistakes. He has a purpose for everything and His selection of words- which anyone might agree would have NO place speaking about an unimportant actor like an AE or Ptolemy and the unimportant conflicts occurring between the last 2 kingdoms. Look at the many scriptural type words He uses - Daughter of the KOS, Daughter of women, Branch of her roots, has done what his fathers fathers have not done(twice), establish the vision, and certainly more! These have no purpose or value unless we try to ignore the spiritual relationship / prophetic messages in 11. These thoughts convey only some of the reasons why I have realized that 11 is prophetic / spiritual and is meant to reveal His Plan of Salvation- and give us an exact and complete understanding of those actors and events that will occur and are relevant to “the beast”, His church, the little horn including the 3 plucked up by the little horn. Once again, this interpretative approach does NOT end with verse 5, but continues throughout 11. I have not completed 11 as of this writing since it is quite difficult- there are so many “he’s and him’s” in 11 and it is easy to misinterpret each of them .... but one will learn of this should it fail to follow true in later verses.... but this does reveal His story and not a meaningless history of an AE or the Ptolemy period. These are the final 2 chapters of Daniel AND the 4th kingdom—- it MUST not be about Him and those interested in corrupting His covenant, His church and our salvation. Thanks again Sister and I apologize for the long winded response!

11:5. And the KOS (Judaism / Word) shall be strong, and one of His princes (Messiah), and He (Messiah) shall be strong above him and have dominion; his (Messiah) dominion shall be a great dominion. This is the start of a new interpretation at 11:5.... Would like to hear your thoughts and comments please. Thank you very much!

Ok and thanks douggg!

douggg, greatful for chapter 11 information. As you know I am desperately attempting to unpack it . Rather than go through 11 (if you are willing to discuss this chapter), would you be willing to send me your email address and I will send you a word doc ( first few verses at a time to show you what I currently have and you can comment on? Thanks douggg, Charlie

Thanks douggg for your thoughts! I believe God did not want to allow Daniel to understand all of the prophecies in the 12 chapters. One, he would not have a “need to know “- he would never have understood much of it and he could not benefit or done anything with the “end times events “, and two, Daniel had spent the last 70 years in captivity and had been subjected to so so much terrible treatment - I don’t believe God wanted him to understand or see / on a vision that his God would arrive and be crucified by his own people. There is no way God would have him feel and understand that level of horror after his tribulations in Babylon. I also believe this specific mention of the words being “ sealed or shut up” (there are 3 in Daniel and they each mean something different ), means the understanding of the messages in some of the latter parts of 11 and 12 will NOT be understood by anyone until the end times. There still is a significant part of Daniel that is misinterpreted - 2300 days, 70 weeks, 10 horns, 3 plucked, “he” in 9:27, 1290 and 1335 days - all of these are still misunderstood and allow for gross misapplication within Daniel and certainly Revelation. I can not imagine how much chapter 9 speaks often of the covenant and identifies Elohim and Lord, etc., and then people ignore all of this leading up to the most important verse- where “he” would be cut off in the midst of the week.... for 99% of chapter 9 it speaks of God and the covenant relationship and then we find those who contend this refers to AE or some antiChrist? Why? This is all about God! There here is no mention of the Messiah ‘s resurrection in Daniel but that is not part of Daniel. I believe it has been provided in both Isaiah and Jeremiah among others. But He did provide us with the 6 actions or things He would fulfill in 9:24. Agreed, Daniel would not have needed to know this ... this would have been more torture than even he could have beared (even if he could have comprehended it). He had already became quite ill and sick after one of his visions (chapter 8?).

douggg, thanks for your thoughts and I agree with so much of what you are/ have said...but there are a few differences. I believe we must understand Daniel before we can apply it to Revelation- not the other way around. You mentioned it already fits perfectly— but there are already so many differences among many acclaimed scholars. There still are many different views just within Daniel itself. Some / many contend the 70th week is in the future while others, and certainly myself believe it was completed without a “gap” theory. Some contend the 2300 days applies in the future while others attach it to AE. Some / most have no idea as to the identity of the 10 horns or the 3 plucked up... Some / almost all contend the times, times, and 1/2 equals 1260 year’s using the day for a year principle while others have a very different interpretation. Each of these interpretations, and there are a few more within Daniel itself have scholars and academics that interpret them in very different ways. Consequently, there can be no chance of a consensus and therefore a complete inability to apply them the same to the verses in Revelation. Because Daniel is so complicated (and certainly Revelation), it is critical to get “ it” right before moving on to Revelation. As I have seen recently started this process and having NO preconceived ideas on what Daniel should or is suppose be telling us, my initial approach was to read and learn from all the previous scholars and smart folks who are / were better equipped than myself. Many of them did this for a living- they could and should teach me! And they certainly did, but I found that just about ALL students of Daniel agree with approximately 85% of Daniel- especially the earlier/ historical chapters. But the remaining 15% which start to show themselves from chapter 8 onwards create significant / different interpretations. And these “15% er’s, if you will (some mentioned above), will and does create a wide and often wild interpretations down the line- even before we get out of Daniel itself! When I saw how there were at least a few strong yet different interpretations for these issues on Daniel, I realized that it was possible that no one might have the correct interpretation and I decided to focus on those relatively few enigmatic verses (15%). As I mentioned earlier, I have completed the first 10 chapters and I believe my interpretations may reflect the message within Daniel better than those out there... I asked myself to look at the specific verse and ask what is this trying to reveal to us as it were to speak about or to reveal something about the coming Messiah as opposed to some historical figure in man’s history (AE for example). Or how does and why would the 2300 days prophecy apply to the Messiah as opposed to it applying to a secular person or event. When I continued this approach I was able to identify these issues and they made so much sense - within Daniel. These relatively few ( maybe 8 issues) have a completely different interpretation than the existing ones promoted by scholars and have been accepted by most. And one more thing- just because they are/ have been repeated over and over again throughout the many years does not make them correct ( again, I am speaking of just the 8 or so complicated issues). The reason they are / have been consistently repeated and then reinforced is because they ARE SO complicated and they have really not be challenged. Why would anyone challenge these extremely qualified and highly gifted scholars? I am not smart enough to compete with them but I am not trying to.. I just came into this as a clean slate asking questions whenever I found conflicting opinions and very different interpretations- just within Daniel. So I certainly can expect to find consistency in their interpretations of Revelation. Now, I am trying to unpack and understand what chapter 11 might be telling us- very, very difficult but I can assure you it is NOT a history lesson about AE or the Ptolemaic period—- the more I ask the question within 11 how it might apply or is speaking about the Messiah, His Word, and the spiritual battle of the little horn, the closer I am to understanding it. But it is so difficult!! Sorry for the long winded response but I was very surprised to hear you mention that Daniel and Revelation fit perfectly using the interpretations found in today’s commentaries. But it is so clear that you have tremendous knowledge and talent in Daniel-and you are able to articulate so much better than myself... these is such a departure from my discipline... but I am finding by going in with a clean slate, asking questions that are first and foremost focused on how they might speak about God ( which really is the point of all this), and my problem solving skills ( given by God and used in another discipline) and patience and sincere prayers that God would reveal to me what He wants me to see, I am making progress. Again, 11 is a monster! Best wishes and stay safe, and it is a pleasure discussing Daniel with you, Charlie

Thanks douggg! Unfortunately, I have yet to study Revelation. I was told to study Daniel before I attempt Revelation. However, I can tell you that since I have completed the first 10 chapters of Daniel, the misinterpretations that are prevalent in Daniel have a significant effect on how people interpret Revelation. A good example is the belief that there are the 7 years remaining of Daniel’s 70 weeks into the future. This belief demands many interpretations must follow into Revelation. Consequently, a misinterpretation in Daniel has a tremendous effect on how one MUST view and interpret Revelation. I have to try and understand Daniel without looking at Revelation (however, at the end of the day these two books must agree with each other). But for now, I need to treat Daniel as though Revelation has yet to be written - and this is exactly how the Jews of the day prior to the crucifixion would have to try and interpret it. Since I have not started Revelation it would be wrong for me to stop and go to Revelation and interpret this against Daniel- however, it is clear to me that there are 2 major issues that everyone has to address: 1) they have to significantly “bend” their interpretations of Revelation based on their misunderstanding of Daniel, 2) they will not be able to “fit” or “reconcile “ the 2 books ( and thus get a unified message or correct interpretation or message from the 2 books) unless they are willing and able to interpret many verses ( both books) in a non-historical manner). It is not possible or appropriate to try and match the interpretations I am promoting against the existing interpretations of Revelation. It is apples and oranges. Once I complete Daniel then I would have to apply this to Revelation - again- they would need to “fit” together. Based on the interpretations of Daniel today, where there is absolutely NO consensus, there is also no consensus for Revelation whatsoever. Today’s Daniel does not at all “fit” today’s Revelation- and it because Daniel is not yet properly interpreted. Hope this makes sense, Charlie

Thanks douggg! I understand your response. But these are different events- for me. The little horn will and has indeed claimed to be god on earth and sits on the throne of god on earth- the papacy! In the “seat” or “place” of god is the office or holy place he (pope) rules on earth. This does not mean or have to literally mean another physical temple. He will magnify himself “ in his heart” as though... he thinks to seat himself / raise or place himself above all mankind and to be worshipped as god... certainly the papacy is and has put themselves in that “seat”. I also think I remember in the New Testament where it is written that the new temple is now within each of us, and we are to invite God into our heart to worship with Him. The old / physical temple is no longer a part in God’s Plan of Salvation. Fyi, what part of the US are you in? If you are in the US... thanks, Charlie

Thanks douggg! First I believe Satan has already declared war against God - at the beginning of all things ! He is incapable of worshiping and obeying God. He has and will continue to do evil until the very end. The Jews have always failed to obey and worship God throughout their history... they certainly “transgressed” so many times despite God’ warnings and forgiveness. God would once again restore the Jews to Jerusalem after 70 years in Babylon but He knew they would once again transgress. Unfortunately, this time their transgressions would cause “desolation”! The failure to recognize their Messiah and His crucifixion would be the most horrific and permanent act they could possibly do- this transgression would cause their desolation. Nothing could possibly be a greater harm or transgression to God. There is no longer the need for a sacrificial system after His sacrifice- that system is dead, hence there can not be anything that could be done to it that has any meaning. It has no value left to God and therefore can not be transgressed. Done away with! The little horn of Daniel 8 and the one in Daniel 11 are the same and has been identified by God as the one who WILL declare himself to be equal to God and is able to forgive sins, etc. - the papacy! So Daniel 8 idenfies the little horn after the 3rd kingdom ( but He is not labeled a king or he is head of a kingdom), only identified as the next power after Alexander. The 4th kingdom and the 4th King will be Jesus Himself - which is why no king ( man) or kingdom (Rome) is not specifically identified. Certainly pagan Rome will emerge but God is not concerned about another man made king or kingdom- He is willing to identify the one who will attempt to declare war (spiritual) against Him. I am currently trying to unpack Daniel 11 and this is clearly the most difficult chapter... but at this time, I believe I may have some traction- Daniel is writing about the coming Messiah, the event that will show the “desolation “ to the Jews as a result of their failure to accept the Messiah, and the rise and coming of the little horn who will do “what his fathers, fathers have not done “. Consequently, the Messiah would fulfill all 6 of His mission requirements and the 3 you have just mentioned- stop the daily sacrifice by His own sacrifice, by the Jews making the worst decision possible would be the “transgression that would indeed cause their “desolation”. Why anyone would thing there could be any transgression greater than killing God Himself is beyond me and attempt to equate that level of “transgression “ to the stopping of a sacrificial system in the future where God Himself declared He Himself would be the perfect sacrifice once and for all! Hope some of this is acceptable to you, thanks Charlie

I will have to go back to chapter 9 but I believe it is the covenant where the Jews agreed to obey God and worship only Him. Unfortunately, they had continuously failed to honor both of these requirements. Consequently, God would have to establish a New Covenant with them. Also, it f you notice in chapter 9 there are 6 times where the covenant is mentioned ALONG with with sacred name of Elohim- I believe the 7th mention of the covenant is the “he” in 9:27. The reason God identified the Messiah as “he” and did not use His sacred name is because He knew the Jews would not recognize Him as the coming Messiah- God Himself. The Messiah was God and just as the Jews did not recognize Him, we / most interpreters also fail to recognize Him even to this day! God wants us to see Him in these Scriptures- He is revealing Himself not some evil no body like an AE or some evil actor we have created that will come some 2000 years in the future. I am so surprised that we / most can not see Him in His own prophecies. For me He is so clear to see and we have history behind us to see that He fulfilled all that He said He would do in Daniel. I am sure He is so hurt when He sees that we still do not see Him in these Words after ALL He actually did for us- Daniel is about Him and His New Covenant with mankind. Nothing could be more important than His coming to save us with a New Covenant. Thank you very much again, Charlie

douggg, thank you for your comment! I do understand that your opinion agrees with most scholars and their interpretations, but I feel quite comfortable the “he” is the Messiah and He can only make a covenant with Israel- the New Covenant is what the Messiah is meant to bring to the world. Also, the Messiah will certainly cause the sacrifices to cease- reason He came - to be the perfect sacrifice. The sacrificial system spoke about Him. It was designed to point to Him and He would eliminate the sacrificial system by His death. Daniel is prophecizing about His coming and His mission. His first coming.... He had to fulfill ALL His requirements ( all 6), and He did! No one else could perform or complete them except the Messiah. All of this was completed before the end of the vision- the vision of 490 years. Please consider and thanks, Charlie

Thank you very much for your comments and I hope everyone is well with this terrible virus! I believe we are viewing/ seeing Daniel very differently. One of the most important differences is that I do not understand how one can interpret “he” in 9:27 as anyone other than the Messiah. Chapter 9 is riddled with the new covenant message from / provided by the Messiah. Within the final week of Daniel’s 70 week prophecy there are a series of accomplishments by the Messiah- 9:24 ( 6 things). No one other than God has ever or could enter into a covenant with His people. No gap theory since the 490 years represents 1 continuous period of 3 separate sections- each has their own requirements to complete- Daniel’s 70 weeks is without a break- it makes no sense and was promoted by the Jesuits to combat the then long believed understanding that the pope / papacy was tha little horn. This was promoted at the time of the reformation. The “prince” is the Messiah not an anti- Christ... It is He that will be “cut-off in the midst of the last week ( 7 years) of Daniel’s 70 weeks. There is so much misinterpretation out there and has not changed for so long- everyone is simply repeating the same theory/ misinformation over and over again! God is not giving His prophecy’s in Daniel only to talk about an evil actor like AE or some supernatural actor some 2000 years in the future- Big picture- He is interested in revealing the most important event ever- His coming and those things that are going to come (little horn) that can and would turn His people away from His Plan of Salvation. Hope this makes sense, and best wishes, Charlie

Thank you very much for your comments! First, I hope you and your family are doing well with this virus... horrible!! Unfortunately, you do not seem to leave any other opinion re: the 2300 days... I would hope that could change somehow.. Anyway, I do see how you would accept this line of thought given the wording ( found in most bible versions). When I started trying to understand Daniel, and reading all the most accepted interpretations ( which certainly includes yours- in fact I would say your interpretation is the most accepted), I initially thought the same- and many scholars continued their interpretations with corresponding historical events especially surrounding AE! But the more I studied this and it’s relationship with earlier chapters- especially 2 and 7, it was clear it would not maintain its integrity- AE and the events post Alexander (pre- pagan Rome). They may fit but they have no purpose or meaning with the earlier verse / messages in Daniel. The little horn comes out of the 4th kingdom and that is not the period of AE. He was no king of a kingdom. He was a relatively minor yet evil actor (not important in Gods prophecy’s), and only temporarily stopped me he sacrifices in the Temple. There were many others who treated the Jews and the Temple much worse than AE. The purpose of the 2300 days is to identify the time where the Messiah would cleanse the Sanctuary. Please note this does NOT mean the physical Sanctuary- that was already corrupted and left absent of the Holy Spirit at the time of Jeremiah. The Messiah would replace the physical lamb sacrifices with His own body. He would serve as our High Priest and replace the Jewish priests in The Passover Feast. And He would be the only One who was capable of cleansing the Sanctuary. So everything regarding this final Passover Feast has been elevated from a physical event to a spiritual ons- He would be all - the Lamb, The Priest, and the Sanctuary which was NOT the building but now the entire world. He would remove all sins from all people in all the world- no longer just a physical building. The 2300 days is exactly the time period between agency His baptism and the day of the seventh Passover during Daniel’s last week (less 40 days for His required cleansing in the desert with Satan). Their is no 4th king mentioned in chapter 8 after Alexander- because Jesus would be the 4th and last King of the world- but His Kingdom was established at the time of His crucifixion but He would come as the conquering King at the end of time. If we step back or look at Daniel- especially chapters 7 onward, from a 60,000 foot view, we might see Him in these messages and realize what He is trying to reveal to us... not a history lesson about some relatively no body during an unimportant period between the 3rd and 4th kingdoms — He specifically identified 4 distinct kingdoms which identify the principle actors and periods that would lead us to the most important event in history!! Best wishes always, Charlie