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The Second Exile started in AD70 at the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Prophesied many times in the Bible such as Isaiah 28 and 29, Daniel 9:26 [funnily, even before the Temple was rebuilt after the First destruction, God warned Israel it will be destroyed a second time]. Jesus prophesied of the coming destruction many times too. Luke 19:43-44. Luke 21:20, Matthew 24:2. Also not so obvious to most, but also in the parables, the sign of Jonah, and the Rich man and Lazarus. The curse on Israel will last until September [Rosh Hashanah] 2029 according to Leviticus 26 and the punishment placed on Israel for disobedience. Lev. 26:17 will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; [refers to the first exile, 70 years]. 18 “‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. [7X70=490 years]. The warning was then repeated in vss. 21, 23 and 28. The total is 490+490+490+490+490=1960 years. 70AD + 1960 = 2030, however that is on the Roman calendar. The Jewish Calendar starts a few months earlier so the year is actually 2029. At the end of this Exile in 2029 the two witnesses will arrive and that will be the last week of Daniel's 70 week prophecy. Jesus will return in 2036 on the day of atonement, Yom Kippur. Hosea 6:2 After 2 days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us that we may live in his presence. The verse says ''AFTER'' 2 days, which is 2 millennia. So it is not immediately after 2000 years. The verse then says on the ''THIRD'' day [which is the third day since Jesus going away] which is the beginning of the 7th day since creation, the sabbath rest for God's people, the 7th Millennia. John 2:1;4:40 Exodus 19:11 Luke 13:32 The Wedding Of The Lamb Revelation 19:7 Isaiah 25:6-8

No one is born with a sin nature. We are all sinners yes. But we all have had that choice. Adam and Eve were created sinless, which is obvious since God pronounced the creation very good, and yet they chose to sin. Sin entered the world when Lucifer tempted Eve. That is also when Lucifer fell. If we are born sinners, then that means God's creation is defective. If God's creation is defective then how can we be judged as sinners? It would be God's fault. There would be no justice in that. If someone created a robot to kill and then said to that robot, sorry, now I have to destroy you because you have killed someone, who could call that fair? Not me. If someone thinks we are all born sinners, does that mean we are all child rapists, murderers, thieves etcetera? We have a choice in the sin we participate in. Jesus was born and learned to choose the good from the evil. He was just like us in every way. Isaiah 7:15 [NIV] He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, I have omitted most scriptures, because they mean little to people who have no understanding of their Bibles anyway, so I have not waisted my time going through collecting them and showing them. Just like I won't bother to reply to contrary opinions, I don't see the point in arguing. We all have Bibles, but amazingly opinions/interpretations vary by massive extremes. Eccles. 7:29 [NIV] This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes.” God certainly didn't create man sinful.

The Spirit [figuratively] or Breath [literally] of God is what returns to Him. It is nothing to do with us as a person, it is His Breath, not ours. Animals have the same Breath/Spirit as humans as recorded in Genesis. If you think people fly away to heaven at death then that would be victory. You have no need of a body to exist. However, Paul places the victory at the resurrection. 1 Cor. 15:51-55 [quoting from Isaiah 25:8 LXX]. Our Spiritual bodies: “Spiritual” does not mean non-material, but rather that which has been transformed by the holy Breath of God (cf. 1 Cor. 3:1; Gal. 6:1). Eternal life only comes through the resurrection of the body. Romans 8:20-25 .....Our hope is the redemption of our bodies.. v24 for in this hope we were saved 1 Cor 15:13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life..... Daniel 12:13 Daniel will rest [die] then receive his reward at the end of the days [at the resurrection]. Job 19:25-26... even after his flesh has decayed at death Job will see his redeemer in the flesh at the resurrection NOT before. The verse also says Job will see him on the earth, ie ''land'', NOT heaven. See also: Isaiah 26:19, Job 7:21, Psalm 7:5 all return to dust until the resurrection. God comes to dwell with man Man does not go to dwell with God Rev. 21:3. Ezek 37:27, 43:7. Psalm 132:13-14. Your question was referring to where Jesus was when he said that in John 3:13? Jesus did not say that. It was an editorial comment made by John. How can that be proved? John 3:13 ''And no one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man. The perfect tense of the verb requires that after ascending, the Son remained in the sky [heaven] at the time these words stated. This is proof that verse 13 was John’s commentary after the ascension rather than being part of Jesus’ dialogue with Nicodemus. The Apostle John wrote this after the destruction of Jerusalem and the deaths of Peter and Paul. In Acts 2:34-35 Peter said that David had not ascended into the sky. Jesus is seated at the right hand of The Father Psalm 110:1 ''until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet''. He cannot leave heaven until the very end when He comes to restore the Kingdom. Those that believe in a false rapture to heaven ''before the end of all things'' make this verse [Psalm 110:1] a lie. The wedding of the lamb occurs at the beginning of the Kingdom [Rev. 19]. If Jesus takes His bride to heaven before the wedding of the lamb, he is made a fornicator by dwelling with his bride before the wedding. Jesus coming in Revelation 16:15 ''as a thief'' is between bowl 6 and bowl 7. [cf. Matt. 24:43-44; 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10]. Forgive me for not being able to reply again. I am quite bored with internet discussions and it is just not for me. The most important thing is ''we make ourselves'' clean in God's site [Rev.19:7]. We have to rid ourselves of all filth or God will not welcome us into the Kingdom. Don't be fooled, into thinking a little prayer gets you into the Kingdom, it won't. The storm comes for us all. In the gospels, Jesus only took His true believers on the boat, the others were dismissed. They then went through a storm. Shadrach, Meshach, & Abednego did not worship the image and were willing to die for their God. When the mark and image of the Beast/Antichrist comes watch how few will be willing to go through the storm. Tribulation starts in 2029 on Rosh hashanah. 2 witnesses will arrive then. It is the end of the Jewish Exile. The 70th Week of Daniel's prophecy. Leviticus 26 explains it. But it is not easy to find unless you have a good knowledge of the Bible. 70 years for the first exile and a multiplication of that number for the length of the second exile, which started in 70AD at the destruction of the Temple/Jerusalem and the Priesthood. Sorry for not explaining it in depth. Of course it will seem weird and unbelievable, but just wait for 2029 [September]. That is when the Bible is really going to come to life.

The Bible does tell us when Jesus returns and when the Tribulation begins. God always warns in advance. God warned Adam he would die in the ''Day'' before eating from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam lived to 937 years and so died within the ''1000 year day'' God was referring to. Psalm 90:4 The 6 Days of creation are the template of God's plan. Man is under the curse for 6 days and just as God rested on the 7th day we will rest on the 7th Millennia when Jesus returns to reign for 1000 years after which when all evil is destroyed/annihilated eternity begins. Circumcision was given on the 8th day. It is symbolic, and represents the removal of the curse by removing a piece of flesh from the body. In the 8th Millennia [the beginning of unmeasured time] we will be free from the curse. See Hebrews 4. The link below is a free translation of the Greek text https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_Hebrews.pdf [Read the commentary in the footnotes which explain the Sabbath Rest in Chapter 4 in more detail]. God warned Noah 120 years before the flood. 2 Peter 3:5 For they are willingly oblivious to this: that the skies continued from antiquity, and the land out from water43 and by water having been upheld44 by the announcement45 of God, 6 through which [announcement] the existing order was destroyed. 7 And the present skies and land, having been set aside by the same announcement, 46 are reserved for fire until the Day of Justice and the destruction of ungodly men.47 8 Yet, do not miss this one thing: that one day with the Master is as a thousand years,48 and a thousand years as one day. https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_2Peter.pdf [Read the commentary on the footnotes for 2 Pet. 3:5-8]. God through the prophet Jeremiah warned Israel for 40 years that the Exile would last 70 Years. Jeremiah 25. He also took some into captivity beforehand and saved them Jeremiah 24 ''The good figs''. There are so many other events where God warned in advance. Jesus also warned Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed 40 years before its destruction through the following examples. 1- The sign of Jonah [Matt. 12:38-42, Luke 11:29-32]. https://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/Chronology/jonah.pdf 2-Luke 19:41-44 3-The Rich Man and Lazarus [Luke 16:19-31] https://www.4windsfellowships.net/bbi_03.html [Lesson 10a & 10b]. Notes for The Rich Man & Lazarus https://www.4windsfellowships.net/bbi_notes/03/10.pdf The Second Exile of Israel will last until 2029. It will end on Rosh Hashanah exactly like the First Exile. Leviticus 26:17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; [This refers to the First Exile which lasted 70 years]. Lev. 26:18“‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. This warning was repeated in verses 21,24, & 28. 70 X 7 = 490 + 490 + 490 + 490 = 1960 years in total. The destruction of Jerusalem commenced in 70 AD. Add 1960 years onto 70AD and we arrive at 2030. However the Jewish Calendar is offset from the Gregorian Calendar by a few months. So the year is actually 2029 in September. [Rosh Hashanah]. When the Exile ends the last Week [7 Years] of Daniel's 70 Week Prophecy begin. Jesus returns on a Jubilee Year [Isaiah 61]. 120 Jubilees X 50 Years = 6000 Years since creation. 1 Jubilee is 50 Years. Leviticus 25:11 The fiftieth year shall be a Jubilee for you. Jesus' return is on Yom Kippur 2036 Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, sent My messenger to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the Root and the Descendant of David, the bright and morning star.508 https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_Revelation.pdf 508 Balaam prophesied of a “Star” rising who is the Messiah (Num. 24:16-19). Peter stated that the “morning star” would “arise” on the Day of Christ’s return (2 Pet. 1:19). Here Jesus referred to Himself as the “bright and morning star,” which is actually the planet Venus when it appears early in the morning before sunrise. “The sign of the Son of man in the sky” which occurs while the sun and moon are darkened (Matt. 24:30) very well may involve the planet Venus rising in conjunction with Regulus (King) in the constellation Leo (Lion). This conjunction at dawn (viewed from Jerusalem)will occur on Yom Kippur 2036, and will appear as the King star (Regulus) crowning Venus, the morning star. If this is indeed “the sign of the Son of Man in the sky” that Jesus referred to, it will be something to behold against the blackened sky. 2 Peter 1:19 And we have the prophetic word verified22 to which you do well in heeding (like a lamp appearing in a dark place until the Day23 breaks and the morning star24 arises)20 knowing this first in your hearts:25 that all prophecy of Scripture does not generate its own explanation. 22 Peter and John, the two living witnesses of this event, confirmed the prophetic Scriptures through their eyewitness testimony to the preview Jesus gave them of the coming Kingdom. 23 “The Day” refers to day of Jesus’ return (1 Pet. 1:16; 2 Pet. 3:8,10). 24 The planet Venus was widely known as the “morning star.” According to Rev. 22:16, Jesus is “the Root and Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.” A literal interpretation may indicate that (Venus) will arise on the Day of Jesus’ return. “The sign of the Son of man in the sky” (Matt. 24:30) immediately precedes Jesus coming, while the sun is dark and the moon is red. This very well may involve the planet Venus in conjunction with the brightest star Regulus (King) in the constellation Leo (Lion). See Rev. 22:16. 25 Most translations have the prepositional phrase “in your hearts” modifying the clause “the morning star arises” which would necessarily make arising of the morning star merely metaphorical. However, the Greek grammar does not support or require that understanding. A more literal reading places the prepositional phrase “in your hearts” as beginning the next sentence, and makes perfect sense since Scripture refers to knowledge being in the heart. (cf. Psalm 37:31; Psalm 64:6; Psalm 119:11; Prov. 2:2; Prov. 7:3; Prov. 12:23; Prov. 14:10; Prov. 18:15; Prov. 22:17; Prov. 23:12; Eccl. 7:22). https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_2Peter.pdf

Lucifer's fall began in the Garden when he tempted Eve to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. And that is when the 'curse' was put upon the "Serpent," and when the prophecy was made about his head being "bruised" by the "foot" of the "Seed of the woman" (Christ). In Revelation 12, Satan is portrayed as a dragon/serpent with seven heads and seven crowns. These 'heads' are seven kingdoms which Satan has ruled in his attempt to use humanity to overthrow God. In Revelation 17, John said that the seven heads represent seven kingdoms. In John's day, five had fallen, one was present (Roman Empire), and one was yet to come. Most of these Satanic kingdoms have been overthrown by God's supernatural intervention in history. In any case, the first of these kingdoms began when Satan deceived Eve, embodying a serpent. This kingdom was overthrown by God with Noah's flood. But Satan has gotten bolder, and possessed men instead of an animal. One of these 'seven' was the king of Tyre, which is described by Ezekiel. When the prophets spoke of these 'kings,' it was not only of the man being possessed by Satan, but also Satan himself who possessed him. This is why Ezekiel can place the 'king of Tyre' in "Eden, the Garden of God." Ezekiel 28 1 The word of the LORD came to me again, saying, 2 "Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre,`Thus says the Lord GOD: "Because your heart is lifted up, And you say,`I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,' Yet you are a man, and not a god, Though you set your heart as the heart of a god 3 (Behold, you are wiser than Daniel! There is no secret that can be hidden from you! 4 With your wisdom and your understanding You have gained riches for yourself, And gathered gold and silver into your treasuries; ...12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him,`Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. While this prophecy deals with the actual history of the king of Tyre, it also deals with Satan's history in Eden. The man possessed by Satan and Satan himself are spoken of as a single being. Notice that Satan was created on a "DAY." There were no "days" before "day one" of creation week. Notice that he was perfect in Eden, the Garden of God. Eden was not created until day 6 of creation week at the earliest. Sin was fond in him AFTER he was first in Eden. Therefore, he could not have sinned before day 6 of creation week. Isaiah 14:12 is also frequently used to support the idea that 'Lucifer' fell from heaven prior to creation. But how can this be if there was no earth/ground for him to fall to? Continue reading just a few verses later, it says this about 'Lucifer.' " Isaiah 14 12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! 13 For you have said in your heart:`I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.' 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. 16 "Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying:`Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms, 17 Who made the world as a wilderness And destroyed its cities, Who did not open the house of his prisoners?' 18 "All the kings of the nations, All of them, sleep in glory, Everyone in his own house; 19 But you are cast out of your grave Like an abominable branch, Like the garment of those who are slain, Thrust through with a sword, Who go down to the stones of the pit, Like a corpse trodden underfoot. 20 You will not be joined with them in burial, Because you have destroyed your land And slain your people. The brood of evildoers shall never be named. Verse 25 calls 'Lucifer' "the Assyrian," showing once again that the man possessed by Satan is viewed as a single entity in these prophecies. Isaiah here referred to the Antichrist, and the fall from heaven is what is described in Revelation 12:7-9, which occurs at the mid-point of the seven-year tribulation. Jesus saw the same thing that Isaiah and John saw. One more thing. The angels were created during the 7-day creation week, not before. That includes Satan. Exodus 20:11 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Col. 1:15- LGV 15 He is the image of the God who is unseen, first-produced of all creation, 16 because through Him everything was created, what is in the heavens and what is on the land, the seen and the unseen (including thrones, dominions, principalities, and authorities).13 Everything has been created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before everyone, and everything has stood together in Him. 18 And He is the head of the Body (the assembly), who is The Beginning, first-produced out from among the dead, so that in everything He should become the prototype. https://www.4windsfellowships.net/bbi_11.html

Luke 10:18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. The verbs in this statement by Jesus are all active voice. IMO this statement by Christ is a prophetic vision He observed in the future. The verb for “saw” [ἐθεώρουν] is in the imperfect tense and indicative mood. The time element of the verb is past tense and the verbal aspect of it is continuous. This means when Jesus made this statement, He had continually observed something in the past. Most likely He observed the prophetic events described in Isa 14:12-16 and Rev 12:7-9 unfold. These events describe Satan being cast down to the earth at the middle point of the 70th week when the Antichrist rises to power.

https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_Revelation.pdf [LGV} Revelation 12 And a great sign appeared in the sky – a woman, having been clothed with the sun, and the moon beneath her feet, and on her head a wreath of twelve stars.240 https://www.4windsfellowships.net/feasts/Rosh_Hashanah_4BC.png https://www.4windsfellowships.net/feasts.html#trumpets 240 Isaiah repeatedly referred to Jerusalem and the redeemed as a single entity – a woman whom he called “the Daughter of Zion” (Isaiah 52:1-2; 62:11-12), and “the wife” of the Master (Isaiah 54:5). He described her as giving birth to a “male child” – Jesus, and to all the redeemed (Isaiah 66:5-13). He described her troubled past and her glorious restoration in the coming Kingdom (Isaiah 54:1-17). She will be called by a new name, the New Jerusalem (Isaiah 62:1-2; Isaiah 65:17- 19). Paul developed Isaiah’s imagery further in Gal. 4:21-31. He likened this restored (“elevated Jerusalem”) to Sarah, the mother of Abraham’s seed of promise, which includes Gentile believers (Gal. 3:26-29). In doing so, he quoted Isaiah’s prophecy concerning the “Daughter of Zion” (cf. Gal. 4:27 & Isaiah 54:1). In Hebrews 12, Paul again identified faithful believers with the Daughter of Zion. “But you have approached toward Mount Zion, the city of the living God, Jerusalem of celestial dominion, and tens of thousands of messengers, toward the universal congregation and assembly of the firstborn ones having been pre-registered in the skies” (Heb. 12:22-23). The Greek word translated “universal congregation” appears only in one other place in the Bible, Isaiah 66:10 LXX. “Rejoice, O Jerusalem, and all you who love her, hold in her the universal congregation. Rejoice greatly with her, all that now mourn over her, that you may suck, and be satisfied with the breast of her consolation, that you may be weaned, and delight yourselves with the influx of her glory. For thus says the Lord, Look! I turn toward them as a river of peace, and as a torrent [of rain] bringing upon them in a flood the glory of the Gentiles. Their children shall be borne upon the shoulders, and comforted on the knees. As a mother comforts one, so will I also comfort you. And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.” This is what Paul was referring to in Hebrews 12:22-23. In Revelation, a celestial messenger told John he was going to show him “the Bride, the Lamb’s wife.” He then immediately showed Him the “New Jerusalem” – the Lamb’s wife, (Rev. 21:9-10). Scripture is very consistent in representing both the redeemed and the restored Jerusalem as a single entity – a woman. It is obvious that the “woman clothed with the sun” in Rev. 12 refers to the redeemed, those who are the rightful citizens of Jerusalem which is about to be restored and revealed. They are about to be gathered as “the universal congregation and assembly of the firstborn ones having been pre-registered in the skies.” For 2,000 years, true Christian assemblies have been rejected by the present Jerusalem and her inhabitants, remaining “outside the camp, bearing His reproach, for here we have no permanent city, but we seek one to come,” (Heb. 13:13-14). Jerusalem will be ours! The most ancient Christian writers also understood the “woman” of Revelation 12 to represent the faithful Christian assembly (See: Hippolytus, Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 61)

A few points for your consideration. You should understand that many Christians believe in the Greek Mythological view that people ascend to heaven. Both the Old Testament and New Testament teach that the only way to eternal life is through resurrection of the body. [LGV] John 3:13 And no one84 has ascended85 into the sky except the one who descended86 out of the sky, 87 the Son of Man. 88, 89 https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_John.pdf 84 The Apostle John wrote this after the destruction of Jerusalem and the deaths of Peter and Paul. In Acts 2:34-35 Peter said that David had not ascended into the sky. 85 The perfect tense of the verb requires that after ascending, the Son remained in the sky at the time these words stated. This is proof that verse 13 was John’s commentary after the ascension rather than being part of Jesus’ dialogue with Nicodemus. 86 In John 6:38 Jesus said, “I have descended out of the sky” using the perfect tense of the verb (which requires a continued result of a past action) because He was still present on earth at the time. Here John used the aorist tense (which only describes a past action) because Jesus was no longer on earth when John made this statement. Other passages that refer to the Son of God having descended from the sky are: John 3:31; John 6:33,38,41-42,46,51,62; John 8:23; John 13:3; John 16:27-28; Eph. 4:9-10 (cf. Psalm 139:13-16). 87 This is a reference to Solomon’s riddle concerning the identity of the Son of God. “Who has ascended into the sky, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, If you know?” (Prov. 30:4) 88 The Son of God descended from the sky to become flesh, then He ascended to the sky as Son of Man. That He was in the sky (Psalm 110:1) when John wrote this is not only shown from the clause, “the one being in the sky,” but also from the perfect tense of the verb translated “has ascended” which requires that the result of ascending continued to the present when John wrote this statement. This is proof that verse 13 was not spoken by Jesus, but was John’s commentary, from the perspective of when he wrote this Gospel after the destruction of Jerusalem. 89 The majority of later manuscripts add “who is in the sky,” but the oldest mss. do not contain this clause. The perfect tense of the verb “has ascended” requires that Jesus was in heaven when this statement was made, and the addition of “who is in the sky” no doubt was meant to reinforce this in order to indicate that verse 13 was John’s commentary rather than the words of Jesus. An article that will help you understand the OT & NT better regarding death. https://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/Conscious.pdf

Jesus returns on the 120th Jubilee since creation. On Yom Kippur. 2036 The Jubilee Trumpet, sounded on the Day of Atonement (Tishri 10) every 50th year [Lev. 25:9; see also Zech. 9:14; Matt. 24:29-31; 1 Thess. 4:16]. *Isaiah 61 to set the captives free... ‭‭ Isaiah 61 The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,[LXX: blind] Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, sent My messenger to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the Root and the Descendant of David, the bright and morning star.*** ***Balaam prophesied of a “Star” rising who is the Messiah (Num. 24:16-19). Peter stated that the “morning star” would “arise” on the Day of Christ’s return (2 Pet. 1:19). Here Jesus referred to Himself as the “bright and morning star,” which is actually the planet Venus when it appears early in the morning before sunrise. “The sign of the Son of man in the sky” which occurs while the sun and moon are darkened (Matt. 24:30) very well may involve the planet Venus rising in conjunction with Regulus (King) in the constellation Leo (Lion). This conjunction at dawn (viewed from Jerusalem) will occur on Yom Kippur 2036, and will appear as the King star (Regulus) crowning Venus, the morning star. If this is indeed “the sign of the Son of Man in the sky” that Jesus referred to, it will be something to behold against the blackened sky. 2 Peter 1:19 And we have the prophetic word verified19 to which you do well in heeding (like a lamp appearing in a dark place until the Day20 breaks and the morning star21 arises), 20 knowing this first in your hearts:22 that all prophecy of Scripture does not generate its own explanation.23 19 Peter and John, the two living witnesses of this event, confirmed the prophetic Scriptures through their eyewitness testimony to the preview Jesus gave them of the coming Kingdom. 20 “The Day” refers to day of Jesus’ return (1 Pet. 1:16; 2 Pet. 3:8,10). 21 The planet Venus was widely known as the “morning star.” According to Rev. 22:16, Jesus is “the Root and Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.” A literal interpretation may indicate that (Venus) will arise on the Day of Jesus’ return. “The sign of the Son of man in the sky” (Matt. 24:30) immediately precedes Jesus coming, while the sun is dark and the moon is red. This very well may involve the planet Venus in conjunction with the brightest star Regulus (King) in the constellation Leo (Lion). See Rev. 22:16. 22 Most translations have the prepositional phrase “in your hearts” modifying the clause “the morning star arises” which would necessarily make arising of the morning star merely metaphorical. However, the Greek grammar does not support or require that understanding. A more literal reading places the prepositional phrase “in your hearts” as beginning the next sentence, and makes perfect sense since Scripture refers to knowledge being in the heart. (cf. Psalm 37:31; Psalm 64:6; Psalm 119:11; Prov. 2:2; Prov. 7:3; Prov. 12:23; Prov. 14:10; Prov. 18:15; Prov. 22:17; Prov. 23:12; Eccl. 7:22). 23 Peter implied here what Paul explicitly stated in 1 Cor. 1-2, that it is not possible to fully understand the prophetic Scriptures without guidance from the same holy Breath of God which guided the prophets when they wrote their prophecies. Without this guidance, the mind of man leaps to all kinds of heretical interpretations and flights of fantasy, which ultimately leads to their own destruction (cf. 2 Pet. 3:15-17)

Jesus coming is placed between the 6th and 7th bowl judgment. Revelation 16:15 (***“Look! I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one watching and guarding his garments so that he should not walk naked and his shame be seen.”) 16 And He assembled them into the place called in Hebrew, “Armageddon.” ***These words of Jesus are one final warning to His own, that His coming is now imminent (cf. Matt. 24:43-44; 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Pet. 3:10). It is not imminent until the armies begin to gather for the battle of Armageddon after the first six bowl judgments. 1 Thes. 5:4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that the Day may overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night, nor of the darkness. 6 Consequently then, we should not go to sleep like the rest, but we should watch and be sober. Remaining awake to “watch” and remaining “sober” come from Jesus’ warnings about His coming “immediately after the tribulation.” (cf. Mark 13:32-36; Luke 21:34). Paul indicated that Christians who are awake and prepared will not be surprised by the Anointed’s coming. His coming is only “like a thief” for those ignorant of the truth.

This may be helpful for you? Tim Warner has a free download of his translation of the New Testament Bible [LGV}. It has some very good footnotes. This is just the first 7 verses of John. The translation is very literal and much closer to the original Greek than other translations in my experience. The GOOD MESSAGE According to JOHN LAST GENERATION VERSION Copyright © www.4windsfellowships.net (05/21/22) Chapter 1 Commentary1 – The Celestial Origin of the Only-Begotten Son In the beginning2 was Logos, 3 and Logos was with4 God, and Logos was God. 5 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 Everything originated through Him,6 and without Him nothing originated. 7 4 What8 has originated in Him9 was life, and the life was the light of men, 10. 1 Unlike the synoptic Gospels which are purely historical narrative, John chose to include critical testimony both by John the Baptist and Jesus regarding the Son’s origin, and added his own theological commentary in support of Paul’s mature Christology. John’s theological commentary has been placed in blue type. 2 Referring to the six days during which God created everything (Gen. 1:1). John added Logos’ active participation in that creation. The Son of God was called “The Beginning” (Col. 1:18), which Paul derived from Wisdom’s claim, “The Master made Me the Beginning” and “in the beginning … He begets Me” (Prov. 8:22-23,25 LXX). The Son of God is “from the beginning” (1 Jn. 2:13). Jesus called Himself “the Beginning of the creation of God” (Rev. 3:14). 3 This translation follows the Septuagint practice of transliterating personal names rather than translating them. Λόγος was the personal name of the Son of God as stated by John in Rev. 19:13 – “His name is called Logos of God.” (See also Heb. 4:12). The term ἄγγελος (messenger) was already closely associated with λόγος (message) in Greek literature (Kittle, TDNT, Vol. I, pp. 75-76). 4 πρὸς + accusative case object indicates external accompaniment, in the presence of God (cf. 1 John 2:1). 5 The term θεὸς (Theos – God) is a personal noun in the nominative case, always referring to a person. Whenever it is used like an adjective (attributing divine qualities to something) it is either in the genitive case (“of God” – 2 Cor. 1:12; 2 Cor. 11:2), or accompanied by the preposition κατὰ (“according to God” – 2 Cor. 7:9,10,11), or the non-personal neuter adjective is used instead as a substantive – τὸ θεῖον (Acts 17:29). θεὸς here cannot merely ascribe divine qualities to Logos. Rather, Logos appeared as “God” to men such as Adam, Abraham, and Moses (cf. v. 18). Since in vs. 14 Logos was transformed into a different nature (“and Logos became flesh”), it was first necessary for John to identify Logos as the one who appeared as “God” to the patriarchs prior to this metamorphosis. Paul did the same in Phil. 2:5-8, defining the preexistent Son as “being in the form of God” and “equal with God,” yet afterward “emptied Himself” and “became in the likeness of men.” Both Paul and John first identified the Son as being of the God kind, but then underwent a total metamorphosis to the human kind (Heb. 2:17). For 2 Persons called “God” cf. Ps. 45:6-7 & Heb. 1:8-9. 6 δι᾽ αὐτοῦ (through Him). The preposition διὰ (through) with its object αὐτοῦ (Him in the genitive case) refers to agency – that the action was performed by use of a personal agent, a third party, who was Logos. The same language occurs for God performing Jesus’ miracles δι᾽ αὐτοῦ (through Him) Acts 2:22. 7 The Son was God’s Agent in creation (John 1:10-11; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:15-19; Heb. 1:2; Heb. 1:8-12), drawn from Solomon’s riddle concerning “Wisdom” (Prov. 8:22-31). The riddle is solved in (Prov. 30:1-4). 8 A new sentence begins here, following the Nestle-Aland 26th Edition & UBS 3rd Edition Greek text. 9 The change here from δι᾽ αὐτοῦ (through Him) to ἐν αὐτῷ (in Him) is significant. He is not the agent through whom “life” originated, but rather the first recipient of “life” from the one who “gives life to all things” (1 Tim. 6:13). “Life” originated in His very person which is why He is called “Logos of life” in 1 John 1:1. This is in agreement with Col. 1:15 which refers to the Son as “the first-produced of all creation.” 10 “Light” is a metaphor for the divine knowledge passed on by God to mankind. https://www.4windsfellowships.net/blog/last-generation-version/

The bible is rich in information, some examples below. The 7 literal days of creation are a pattern for the prophetic history of the world. Keep that in mind. 2 Peter 3:8 Yet, do not miss this one thing: that one day with the Master is as a thousand years,45 and a thousand years as one day. 45 This is a paraphrase of Psalm 90:4, which reads in the LXX, “because a thousand years in Your eyes are like the day, yesterday which passes by...” This statement was inferred from God’s threat to Adam that “in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die” (Gen. 2:17), because “In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.” (Gen 3:19). Adam returned to dust in the same ‘day’ (millennium) that he ate the forbidden fruit at the age of 930 (Gen. 5:5). None of Adam’s descendants’ lives have exceeded “one day” (1000 years) in God’s reckoning. Hebrew 4:4 For He has declared somewhere concerning the seventh [day]thus: “And God ceased in the seventh day from all His works,” 87 5 and thus again: “whether they shall come into My Rest.”88 , 89 87 Gen. 2:2 88 Psalm 95:11 LXX 89 The future “Rest” (Messiah’s Kingdom inheritance) for believers is here called the “seventh day.” Paul said that God has spoken of the “seventh day” in both Genesis 2:2 and in the promised “Rest” of Psalm 95, which he has placed as our future hope. That the creation week is a prophecy of the end of the age is strongly implied by Isaiah also. “I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end at the beginning.” (Isa. 46:9-10*). Paul stated unmistakably that the Kingdom of the Messiah is the “Seventh Day.” Just as the weekly Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, a “Seventh Day” Kingdom necessitates six previous “days” also. There is no escaping the clear implication of six ages followed by the seventh Kingdom age. The only component of Ante Nicene Chiliasm that is not explicitly stated here is the length of each of the seven ages. Yet, this is implied in Psalm 90:4 & 2 Pet. 3:8, and plainly stated in Rev. 20 as a millennium. The obvious conclusion is that man will toil under the curse for 6 millennia, and the believing ones will inherit the 7th millennium.

The Greek word above translated “has learned” is οἶδεν. The New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance defines this word in this passage as: #3609a “to have seen or perceived, hence to know.”[12] It refers to knowledge that has been learned or discovered from observation, experience, instruction, or disclosure. It does not refer to merely a static state of knowing.

Below is the literal translation from the Greek text. Matt 24:36, 42-44 “Yet about that day and the hour no one has learned, not the messengers of the heavens, except My Father only.” … 42 “Watch then, because you have not learned which hour your Master is coming. 43 Yet, understand this: Because if the home-owner had learned which watch the thief is coming, he would have watched and would not have permitted his house to be plundered. 44 Therefore, you also become ready[11] because you do not know which hour the Son of Man is coming.” Notice that Jesus did not say that no one knows (present tense). Nor did He say that no one will know (future tense). And He certainly did not say that it was impossible to learn or discover the time at some point. He said that no one has learned or discovered the timeframe of His coming at the time He made this statement. This was because the critical information had been “sealed until the time of the end” when only the “wise” will understand. The Greek word above translated “has learned” is οἶδεν. The New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance defines this word in this passage as: #3609a “to have seen or perceived, hence to know.”[12] It refers to knowledge that has been learned or discovered from observation, experience, instruction, or disclosure. It does not refer to merely a static state of knowing. Jesus said that no one has learned the timeframe of the end-times when He made the statement. He did not even know Himself at the time.[13] This in no sense precludes the possibility of discovery or learning this information at some point in the future prior to His coming, especially when it will become critical to endure in the “hour of trial.”[14] Verse 43 begins with a command to pay attention to something very important – “Yet understand this.” Jesus then gave a hypothetical parable. “Because if the home-owner had learned which watch the thief is coming, he would have watched and would not have permitted his house to be plundered.” A “watch” in Roman times was a three-hour period of time, not an exact point in time. In a parallel account in Luke 12:39 Jesus said this: “if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come,” substituting “hour” for “watch.” Yet, in Revelation 3:10 Jesus referred to the whole time of tribulation as “the hour of temptation.” In Revelation 14:7 the whole period is called “the hour of His judgement.” Revelation 17:12 states that the ten kings will reign for “one hour” with the Antichrist. In the context of Jesus’ statement in Luke 12:39, the “hour” was one segment of the night which is 12 hours long. So whether it is 1/12th of the night or 1/4th of the night, in either case it is a limited timeframe not an exact point in time. There is plenty of precedent for concluding that Jesus was not referring to the exact calendar date and time of His coming, but to the general timeframe, the season of His coming which is the time of tribulation, the 70th Week of Daniel’s prophecy. Also, notice the association between KNOWING the timeframe and WATCHING within that timeframe in Jesus’ hypothetical parable about the thief. Watching depended on first having learned the timeframe. If the householder had learned or discovered the timeframe, he would have watched for the thief during that brief window of time. If he had watched during that 3-hour timeframe, he would have avoided disaster by confronting the thief the moment of his arrival. Knowing the timeframe beforehand is a prerequisite to watching effectively. Watching for Jesus’ arrival during that limited timeframe is necessary to avoid the plundering of the house. The plundering of his house was the result of not knowing the timeframe beforehand, and therefore neglecting to watch during the critical period. On the other hand, if he had first known the timeframe, he would have watched during it and his house would not have been plundered. Jesus’ parable demonstrates that knowing the timeframe beforehand is not only good, but essential. This is precisely why Daniel was told the following: Daniel 12:4,9 (LXX) “’And you, Daniel, close the words, and seal the book until the appointed time of the end; until many should be instructed and knowledge should be multiplied.’ … And he said, ‘Go, Daniel: for the words are closed and sealed up to the time of the end. Many must be tested, and thoroughly whitened, and tried with fire, and sanctified; but the transgressors shall transgress: and none of the transgressors shall understand; but the wise shall understand.” Notice that the time of Christ’s Kingdom had been “sealed” UNTIL another block of time, prior to the arrival of the Kingdom, during which time many will be instructed and knowledge will be multiplied concerning what had been previously concealed. The early Christians knew this, and it is exactly why Paul wrote the following: 1 Timothy 6:13-16 (LGV) 13 I charge you before the God who sustains life in all things, and Anointed Jesus, the one who testified over Pontius Pilate the good profession. 14 You are to keep this commandment, unblemished, blamelessly, until the Advent of our Master Jesus Anointed, 15 which [God] will disclose in His own appointed times – the King of kings and Master of masters, the Blessed and Sole Sovereign, 16 who alone holds immortality, housing unapproachable light, whom no man has seen nor is capable of seeing, to whom be honor and age-enduring dominion, Amen! In Jesus’ parable of the thief, ignorance of the timeframe in which one needs to watch and be ready is portrayed as being extremely dangerous and potentially disastrous. Yet notice that Jesus then gave this critical command: “Therefore, (as a result of the implications of this parable) you also become ready, because you do not know which hour the Son of Man is coming.” Jesus commanded His followers to “become ready” because of the potential hazard illustrated by this parable. Jesus did not say “be ready” as most translations have it as though a continuous state of readiness must exist throughout Christian history and throughout the lives of all Christians regardless of how many of the specific prophesied events have already occurred or are yet to occur. The Greek words are “γίνεσθε ἕτοιμοι,” (become ready). The verb literally means, “to cause to be, generate, to become, come into being.”[15] It does not refer to continuous static state of readiness but rather achieving something one does not currently possess. Jesus commanded His followers to achieve a state of readiness which those present at the time completely lacked due to their incomplete knowledge. He meant that His followers in the end times must not be like this hypothetical man (who did not know the timeframe in which the thief was coming; therefore, he did not watch; therefore, he suffered great loss). To “become ready” in this context means to learn or discover the timeframe of the tribulation events so that you know when to watch for His arrival. Yet such is not possible until after what Daniel prophesied, what Paul stated in the above passage occurs, until God Himself chooses to disclose the Advent of His Son to His people, those who are not among the “transgressors” but who are “wise” and thus will “understand.”

Yes it is the present tense, sorry I wrote that incorrectly. And so it proves that it was not for people to know at that time. It is not a statement for all time. No where does Jesus say it was impossible to know. You have poorly misunderstood the parable. God throughout all history has warned mankind of coming destruction in advance. Noah was warned 120 years [see 2 Pet. 3:5 below] before the Flood. Noah then warned the people of what was coming at that time, as''a preacher of righteousness''. Jeremiah warned Israel 40 years before the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem. Likewise Jesus warned his own Nation of the second destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem 40 years in advance. Luke 19:41-44. 2 Peter 3:5 For they are willingly oblivious to this: that the skies continued from antiquity, and the land out from water and by water having been upheld by the announcement42 of God, 6 through which [announcement] the existing order was destroyed. 7 And the present skies and land, having been set aside by the same announcement,43 are reserved for fire until the Day of Justice and the destruction of ungodly men.44 42 In Gen. 6:3 God announced to Noah that he was delaying mankind’s judgment for 120 years. This announcement withheld the judgment of the flood for the predetermined time (while Noah prepared the ark), but also brought the judgment at the appointed time 120 years later. 43 The literal meaning of Peter’s statement is that the very same announcement that God made to Noah (that judgment would come for man in 120 years) not only withheld God’s judgment of the flood until the end of the specified time, but the same statement also indicates the time of the second destruction by fire. Genesis 6:3 has a dual meaning, predicting the first destruction by flood in 120 solar years, and the second destruction by fire in 120 Jubilee years (6000 years from creation). A Jubilee year occurs every 50th year (Lev. 25). 44 Isa. 66:24; 2 Thess. 1:7-10 120 X 50 = 6000 years.

Lazarus #1 “Lazarus” is the Greek form of the Hebrew אלעזר, Elʿāzār (Eleazar) meaning "God has helped". or “God is My Help.” The story is an allegory about Jesus (Lazarus) and the destruction of Jerusalem & Priesthood (The Rich Man) which occurred in 70AD. The story is drawn from four OT prophecies, all of which prophesy the destruction of Jerusalem & the priesthood in AD70. a. Deut. 31:28-30; 32:5,15-29 b. Isaiah 28:1-19; 29:1-14 c. Isaiah 50:6-11 d. Mal. 1:6 – 3:5. Allegory/parable, not literal history. One of the earliest manuscripts, Codex Bezae (5th century, Italy), begins vs. 19 as follows: Ειπεν δέ και ετεραν παραβολην – "But He spoke also another parable, ..." The “Rich Man” – the apostate Jewish Priesthood – Levites a. Justified themselves (Luke 16:15 / Mal. 1:6; 2:14,17; 3:8,13) b. Improperly divorced wives and remarried (Luke 16:18 / Mal. 2:13-16) c. “Lovers of money” (Luke 16:14) who had “robbed God” (Mal. 3:8-10). d. Dressed in purple and fine linen 1. “Purple” was the clothing of kings (Mark 15:17). 2. “Fine linen” was the clothing of priests (Ex. 39:27-29). 3. The Hasmonean Dynasty (from the Maccabees) were “priest-kings,” and continued to rule under Herod the Great. “Lazarus” – Jesus Christ, Greek form of the Hebrew אלעזר, Elʿāzār (Eleazar) meaning "God has helped". or “God is My Help.” a. A term applied to Jesus several times: (Psalm 22:16-19; Psalm 40:6-17) b. The name “Lazarus” was drawn directly from Isaiah’s prophecy of Jesus and the destruction of the Levitical priesthood (Isaiah 50:6-7). Lazarus came as a “poor beggar,” born in a stable, homeless, dependent on support of others. a. Luke 9:58; 2 Cor. 8:9 Full of “sores” – bearing our diseases and infirmities (Matt. 8:16-17; Isaiah 53:4-5 LXX) The “dogs” – the Gentiles (Matt. 15:22-28) [How the Pharisees viewed the Gentiles]. Desiring to eat the crumbs (as a Man, humble food) The beggar died – the crucifixion of Christ Carried by the angels – His bodily ascension into heaven (Acts 1:9-11, cf. Mark 16:19, Luke 24:51) Abraham’s Bosom – The ‘Seed’ of the Abrahamic Covenant a. A term used in Gen. 16:5 for Abraham’s intimacy with his wife to produce an heir. b. Lazarus in “Abraham’s bosom” shows that He (Jesus) is the promised Seed. The rich man died afterwards – the destruction of Jerusalem 40 years later in AD 70. Prophesied by Jesus in [Luke 19:41-44]. a. Priesthood demolished – Deut. 32:19-22; Isaiah 28-29; Isaiah 50:11; Mal. 1:6 – 3:12 “In Hades” – refers to the priesthood in exile from the Land & Temple. a. “Hades” is the “grave” [a hole in the ground] The collective grave for all humanity (Num. 16:33; 1 Kings 2:9; Ezek. 32:27; 1 Cor. 15:55). b. The unfaithful priesthood punished in “Hades” [The grave] (Deut. 32:19-22; Isa. 28:15,18; 29:4). Tormented in the flames – God’s wrath (Deut. 32:19-22; Isa. 50:11; Mal. 3:2-3). Send Lazarus to bring relief – Send the Messiah to restore Israel (Hosannah – “save now”) The Great Gulf – the blindness imposed on Israel (Isa. 6:9-13; Matt. 13:10-15; Rom. 11:7-10). Five Brothers – The other 5 tribes of Israel from the same mother – Leah. Levi had 5 brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun (Gen. 30). If they will not hear Moses, they will not hear the One who rose from the dead – Jesus. a. No sign would be given to that wicked generation (Mark 8:11-12). b. Jesus refused to show Himself resurrected to unbelievers (Jn. 14:19-20; 1 Cor. 15:3-8).

You misunderstand the context of the scripture. To begin with The verb is in the perfect tense. Jesus never said no one would ever discover or know. The English translation is poor. He said no one knows or has discovered now. It was not for the people of that time to know. It would have hindered the Apostles and believers of that time if they knew Jesus would not return to set up His kingdom for more than 2000 years. It would have decreased their motivation to build His kingdom. Daniel is told at the end that knowledge will increase and only the wise will understand, but the wicked will not understand. [NKJV} Daniel 12:4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” In verse 10 (Dan. 12:10) Daniel is told “None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.” In Jesus parable of the thief, it was a bad thing to not know when the house was broken into. Not a Good thing. Think about it.

The holy ones are angels. Not people. Read all of the following down below this paragraph. Also I repeat, since the bible is clear no one but Jesus has ascended to heaven John 3:13, any belief in people going to heaven is Greek Platonism. If you believe that garbage over the bible, it makes no difference how many scriptures prove you wrong and no one but God will ever change your mind. I pray you see the truth and stop believing the lie. In 1 Thess. 3:13, the expression is πάντων τῶν ἁγίων αὐτοῦ. It can be translated “all the holy [ones] of him” or “all the holy things of him.” The word ἁγίων (holy) is an adjective used like a noun. When in the genitive case (as here) it is spelled exactly the same whether it is neuter or masculine. Consequently, it can refer to holy (things) or holy (ones – either people or angels). Which of these is meant cannot be determined by the phrase itself, only by the context or comparison to other passages. Matthew 25:31 (NKJV) “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. Mark 8:38 (NKJV) 38 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.” Luke 9:26 (NKJV) 26 “For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels. Since revelation is progressive, before we decide what Paul meant in 1 Thess. 3:13, we need to know what Zechariah meant in Zech. 14:5. Since there is no basis in any of the Old Testament for the Messiah appearing in glory from heaven with people in tow, yet there is precedent for His appearance in glory from heaven on Mt. Sinai in the company of a multitude of angels (Psalm 68:17; Heb. 2:2), we ought to interpret “all the holy ones” in Zech. 14:5 as all the holy the angels, not people. This interpretation is confirmed by Jesus in Matt. 25:31; Mark 8:38; Luke 9:26. He used the word “all” and the adjective “holy” but added the noun “angels” in Matt. 25:31. In the other two the word “all” is not included, but “holy” and “angels” are included. All of these refer to Christ’s visible coming in glory to establish His Kingdom. With all of this prior revelation known both to Paul and his readers, it is certain that he was referring to the holy angels in 1 Thess. 3:13. This is further confirmed by Paul in the second letter to the Thessalonians. 2 Thess. 1:7-8 (NKJV) “7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Translators presuppose something that is nowhere taught in the Bible, that dead people are in heaven, either their ghosts or bodily resurrected pretribbers. They then impose their theological presuppositions and bias upon the Scriptures and translate πάντων τῶν ἁγίων αὐτοῦ in 1 Thess. 3:13 as “all His saints” (ESV, KJV, NASB, NKJV). However, the translators of the NIV, NJB, and a few others did not impose their own false presuppositions on this passage and translated it accurately as “all His holy ones” leaving the reader to decide whether it refers to angels or humans. In the LGV I translated it as “all His holy ones” and added a footnote pointing to these other passages.

Rev. 16:16 And He361 assembled them into the place called in Hebrew, “Armageddon.”362 361 While the unclean breaths deceive the kings of the land to come with their armies to Jerusalem, it is the Son who spoke the words in vs. 15 who ultimately gathers them for judgment and destruction (Joel 3:9-18, Zech. 14:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:7-12, Rev. 19:19). 362 Literally, “Mountain of Megiddo.” Megiddo is a very large plain about 50 miles north of Jerusalem. It is the place where the armies of the nations will assemble prior to their attack on Jerusalem. It is not the location of the final battle itself, which will be around Jerusalem (Zech. 14:1-9). Megiddo is overlooked from the south-east by Mt. Carmel, which was Elijah’s place of hiding and will be the primary place of refuge for Christians who flee from Judea (Micah 7:14-15; Matt. 24:15-21). These faithful believers will be able to watch the gathering of the armies from their vantage point in the caves of Carmel. This is probably why the text refers to “Armageddon” (Mountain of Megiddo) rather than merely “Megiddo” which is a valley. This is also why the exhortation to the believers in hiding was placed here in the text as a parenthetical statement. They will literally see the armies assemble as the sign to get ready for Jesus’ imminent arrival. Sorry, I rarely enter online and normally have little time for discussion. So if I don't respond, please forgive me.

If the first death is ceasing to exist, it cannot be any different to the second death. If the bible is clear that those who die know nothing and go down into silence. God is the God of the living not the dead. The only hope to immortality is through resurrection of the body. Psalm 37:9-10 For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the Lord will inherit the land. 10 A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. How many scriptures do you need? The Psalms are full of verses regarding the righteous inheriting the land and the wicked being ''cut off'', ''the wicked will be no more'', ''cut down like grass'' etc. Deut. 30:19, Psalm 37, Job 38:23-29, Obadiah 1 v 16-18, Malachi 4v1-3 the wicked will be ashes under your feet

It is very hard to discuss the bible with ignorance, mixed with Greek philosophy, lol. The bible is clear that no one has ascended to heaven except Jesus [John 3:13] The Father alone posses immortality [1 Tim 6:16] The last enemy to be destroyed is death 1 Cor 15:26 Gehenna is here here on earth near Jerusalem which is restored as stated in Jeremiah. Do you think the God of love and those in the Kingdom are going to enjoy listening to people being tortured forever? It is funny how people ignore the scriptures that are plainly explained and twist other scriptures into something they are not. In the end, the most important thing is to obey Our Master Jesus and do what is right in His eyes. Bad theology will have consequences. But it does not necessarily mean you will not be in the Kingdom.

The Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable. A. An allegory about Jesus (Lazarus) and the destruction of Jerusalem & Priesthood (The Rich Man) 1. All of the elements of this allegory/parable are drawn from four OT prophecies, all of which prophesy the destruction of Jerusalem & the priesthood in AD70. a. Deut. 31:28-30; 32:5,15-29 b. Isaiah 28:1-19; 29:1-14 c. Isaiah 50:6-11 d. Mal. 1:6 – 3:5 B. The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) 1. A allegory/parable, not literal history. One of the earliest manuscripts, Codex Bezae (5th century, Italy), begins vs. 19 as follows: Ειπεν δέ και ετεραν παραβολην – "But He spoke also another parable, ..." a. The last in a series of parables spoken to the Jewish leadership. (compare Lk. 16:1) 2. The “Rich Man” – the apostate Jewish Priesthood – Levites a. Justified themselves (Luke 16:15 / Mal. 1:6; 2:14,17; 3:8,13) b. Improperly divorced wives and remarried (Luke 16:18 / Mal. 2:13-16) c. “Lovers of money” (Luke 16:14) who had “robbed God” (Mal. 3:8-10). d. Dressed in purple and fine linen 1. “Purple” was the clothing of kings (Mark 15:17). 2. “Fine linen” was the clothing of priests (Ex. 39:27-29). 3. The Hasmonean Dynasty (from the Maccabees) were “priest-kings,” and continued to rule under Herod the Great. 3. “Lazarus” – Jesus Christ, Greek form of the Hebrew “E’leazar,” means “God is My Help.” a. A term applied to Jesus several times: (Psalm 22:16-19; Psalm 40:6-17) b. The name “Lazarus” was drawn directly from Isaiah’s prophecy of Jesus and the destruction of the Levitical priesthood (Isaiah 50:6-7). 4. He came as a “poor beggar,” born in a stable, homeless, dependent on support of others. a. Luke 9:58; 2 Cor. 8:9 5. Full of “sores” – bearing our diseases and infirmities (Matt. 8:16-17; Isaiah 53:4-5 LXX) 6. The “dogs” – the Gentiles (Matt. 15:22-28) 7. Desiring to eat the crumbs (as a Man, humble food) 8. The beggar died – the crucifixion of Christ. 9. Carried by the angels – His bodily ascension into heaven (Acts 1:9-11, cf. Matt. 24:31) 10. Abraham’s Bosom – The ‘Seed’ of the Abrahamic Covenant a. A term used in Gen. 16:5 for Abraham’s intimacy with his wife to produce an heir. b. Lazarus in “Abraham’s bosom” shows that He (Jesus) is the promised Seed. 11. The rich man died afterwards – the destruction of Jerusalem 40 years later in AD 70 a. Priesthood demolished – Deut. 32:19-22; Isaiah 28-29; Isaiah 50:11; Mal. 1:6 – 3:12 12. “In Hades” – refers to the priesthood in exile from the Land & Temple. a. “Hades” is the “grave” of humanity (Num. 16:33; 1 Kings 2:9; Ezek. 32:27; 1 Cor. 15:55). b. The unfaithful priesthood punished in “Hades” (Deut. 32:19-22; Isa. 28:15,18; 29:4). 13. Tormented in the flames – God’s wrath (Deut. 32:19-22; Isa. 50:11; Mal. 3:2-3). 14. Send Lazarus to bring relief – Send the Messiah to restore Israel (Hosannah – “save now”) 15. The Great Gulf – the blindness imposed on Israel (Isa. 6:9-13; Matt. 13:10-15; Rom. 11:7-10). 16. Five Brothers – the other 5 tribes of Israel from the same mother – Leah a. Levi had 5 brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun (Gen. 30). 17. If they will not hear Moses, they will not hear the One who rose from the dead – Jesus. a. No sign would be given to that wicked generation (Mark 8:11-12). (For the “sign of Jonah” see the following article: http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/Chronology/jonah.pdf) b. Jesus refused to show Himself resurrected to unbelievers (Jn. 14:19-20; 1 Cor. 15:3-8). cy of the crucifixion of Jesus and the destruction of the Priesthood.

Mark 9:47 Quoting from Isaiah 66:24“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” Notice that the bodies are dead! They are NOT living people being tortured. This verse is referring to the return of Our Master Anointed Jesus.

Yes they will be destroyed annihilated, cease to exist. Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, the place where the Beast and the False Prophet also [were thrown], (and they448 shall be tortured day and night unto the ages of the ages). 448 ‘They’ refers to the Beast and False prophet who are tortured in Gehenna during the Kingdom. That Satan is destroyed (not tortured forever) at the end of the Millennium is evident from Paul’s statement that “the last enemy that will be destroyed is death” (1 Cor. 15:26) when Jesus returns the sovereignty of the whole creation back to the Father after He has put down all rebellion. Revelation acknowledges the destruction of the ‘last enemy’ in verse 14. Gehenna (Tophet – Jer. 7:31-33) was originally prepared for “the devil and his messengers” (Isaiah 30:33; Matt. 25:41), but it will eventually be cleansed and become “holy to the LORD” (Jer. 31:40) after the Millennium. Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends unto ages of ages,320 and they have no relief day or night – those who are worshipping321 320 Smoke ascending “unto the ages of ages” is meant to point back to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. “Then he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain; and he saw, and behold, the smoke of the land which went up like the smoke of a furnace” (Gen 19:28). The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was “an example of eternal fire” (Jude 1:7). Yet Sodom did not burn perpetually, but rather permanently. Exactly the same expression is used of the destruction of Mystery Babylon (Rev. 19:3), “Her smoke goes up unto the ages of the ages!” Yet her total destruction is also said to be “in one hour” (Rev. 18:10,17,19), with nothing being left at all. “With this kind of violence Babylon the great city shall be thrown down and shall not be found, not anymore” (Rev. 18:21). There is no reason to suppose that this passage teaches eternal torment based on this expression alone. That question must be decided on other grounds. 321 The use of the present participle here (those who are worshipping) in conjunction with the present indicative verb “have” shows that the torment coincides in time with their worshipping the beast. In other words, the “torment” is while they are alive and worshipping the beast.

If God alone is immortal and he supplies all living things with life[ even our master Jesus], that leaves no room for angels being eternal beings. All life is dependent on The Father YHVH [All Sufficient One] Who does not require anything outside of Himself for life.