Frits

Greetings brother Alive, I did not misunderstand @AdHoc, and I have no problem with the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ had a fleshly body and also an immaterial part, so His soul and His Spirit. What I am concerned about, and what @AdHoc has not yet demonstrated, is that he claims that when the Lord Jesus Christ died, His soul went to Hades, but at the same time His Spirit did not go to Hades, it went to God. So I asked him: show us where this division is in the Bible, which he did not do. Why does @AdHoc not only divide His Spirit from the body, but also His Spirit from His soul, when the Lord Jesus Christ died? Why not one destination for the immaterial part of the Lord Jesus Christ after death? Why does he not read what Psalm 24 says about what happened shortly after the Lord Jesus Christ had died physically? It says in Luke 23:46 that at His death He commends His Spirit 'into the Hands of His Father' and thus takes up His Royal supremacy again, which He had put aside for our sakes (Phil. 2:7), so that God the King Himself entered Hades! (Ps. 24:8-10) Not only the soul of the Lord Jesus Christ in Hades, but also the Holy Spirit from which He was born was ONE with Him in Hades. Of course the Holy Spirit did not leave the Lord Jesus Christ in Hades (Acts 2:27), logically because He was always with Him and ONE with Him!

You mean verse 19? Can you tell me what translation this is?

So you are proposing it unbiblical, dividing the Lord Jesus Christ soul and Spirit! (a) That is impossible, neither height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to divide Him. (Deut.6:4) (b) His soul then speaks to Mary, but without His Spirit, because He had gone to God, hadn't He? (c) And finally, His Spirit had to return to earth and be united with His soul, so that He could appear to the apostles, right?

New King James Version For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Hebr.2:16

Again, completely incorrect! The body of the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross, but His Spirit was at that moment endued with the Power of the Most High, that is, the Lord Jesus Christ took up His supremacy and majesty as God and King again. And as such, as Ruler, He entered Hades to preach His Gospel there and to liberate from that realm of the dead the spirits of the righteous dead people! 1Pe 4:6 KJV For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

This is completely wrong and a very wrong representation of the Lord Jesus Christ! Your absurd reasoning does not agree at all with what is written in our Bible: 1Co 15:47 KJV The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 2Co 3:17 KJV Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

That is your conclusion, and those are your own words. Where in Scripture does it say that at death the soul and the spirit are separated at that moment? Why don't the soul and the spirit both go to Hades, or do they both go to God?

Thank you very much for your warning. But can you be more specific about what chaos you mean? And where exactly does the Bible contradict itself in your opinion?

Joh 3:18 KJV He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. In the sense of condemnation, the same word as judgment. (Strong G2919) Rom 8:1 KJV There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Greetings Dennis, If it says in Heb.9:27: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment", then there are indeed the exceptions that you already mentioned, Enoch and Elias, but also the resurrected Lazarus and Jarid's daughter. And then I point to Moses, he too was with Elias with the Lord Jesus Christ on the mount of transfiguration. All God-fearing and righteous people from Abel onwards live for God, even though they have died physically. (Luke 20:38) And all people who love and do sin, all the unrighteous, the idolaters, the murderers etc., they are dead to God, even now while they still have their earthly body! Both groups, both the dead righteous people and the dead unrighteous people, they will have a resurrection. (John 5:29, Acts 24:15) As for the Holy City, it means the heavenly Jerusalem from Heb. 12:22. After all, the earthly Jerusalem was then and is not holy at all, on the contrary! When the righteous people from the Old Testament were once freed from Hades by the Redeemer Jesus Christ, they were taken by Him 'up on high' to the heavenly Jerusalem. (Eph. 4:8) Moreover, after His resurrection He gave these people the gift to be able to appear on earth just like Him. (Matt. 27:53) And they will be able to do that again, when the Lord Jesus Christ comes and all those saints are inseparably with Him. (1Th. 3:13) Some of us who have fallen asleep will also be there, wonderful!

Greetings @AdHoc, Hebrews 9 is about the perfect Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. In verses 25 and 26 it is indicated that He did not have to be offered often for sins and suffer, but for this purpose He was manifested once. The parallel is continued and the similarity in verses 26, 27 and 28 is expressed by the word 'once'. The 'once' death of man, and the 'once' sacrifice of the Lamb of God! It was appointed for man to die 'once', and after that the judgment. (v27) And it was appointed for Jesus Christ to die once, that after that He might be clothed in the majesty of God's glory. Because of this, in the New Testament, the people who love and worship the Lord Jesus Christ will no longer come into judgment, but they will see Him after their death and receive salvation from Him. (v28) Hallelujah! Frits

You see, brother, I have not changed anything in the Holy Scripture. Have a nice day!

Abraham is a good man. He is alive and the Bible calls him a friend of God. Jac 2:23 KJV And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

You are in error, for the Lord Jesus Christ is not judged, but He Himself sits on His great white throne and judges! (2 Tim.4:1, Rev.20:11)

Yes he has, but the first commandment from Matt.27:37-39.

There are many Jews in our time who are loveless, you can see that daily on your TV. But also in the time of the Lord Jesus Christ there were many loveless Jews in Israel! That is precisely why, because of their lovelessness, the Lord Jesus Christ preached to His people, they had to turn to Him, love Him and their neighbors! (Deut.6:5)

No. The fixed pattern that applies to all people, did NOT apply to the Lord Jesus Christ, because He alone entered Hades without OWN sin guilt. Our Redeemer took our sins upon Himself, and that is why He had to die! When He had paid everything and accomplished everything (John 17:4, John 19:30), He, by commanding His Spirit into the hands of His Father (Luke 23:46), took His Royal authority back upon Himself. Jesus Christ died according to the flesh, but He was made alive according to the spirit (1Pe. 3:18), in the hands of His Father. And only then, as the Great Conqueror, did the Eternal Living Kurios Jesus Christ enter the realm of the dead! (read Ps. 24:7-10) His Holy Spirit was therefore with Him in the realm of the dead, according to Acts 2:27.

I think the Lord Jesus Christ knows better than the writer of Ecclesiastics, and all the other writers of the Tanakh, even Moses. (John 1:17) Furthermore, it is generally accepted that Solomon is the author of Ecclesiastics, do you agree? At first he loved the Lord (1 Kings 3:3), but do you know what happened to Solomon and what Scripture says about this man? 1Ko 11:5-6 KJV 5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. 6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.

Yes, I did, and it could not be otherwise, because it says of the Lord Jesus Christ: "All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them" (Mat 13:34) But does that make the content of His parables any less true? The Lord Jesus Christ used parables precisely to reveal the reality, 'which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.' (v35)

The Lord Jesus Christ has shown that the writer of Ecclesiastes did not know what he was talking about when he spoke about the dead! This becomes clear when we compare Scripture with Scripture. Ecclesiastes writes in 12:7: "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." The first part of verse 7 is correct, because the body, the mortal remains of the deceased people decomposes, it is dust that returns to the earth. But about the second part of verse 7, "and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it", the Lord Jesus Christ has explained that better. When the loveless person dies, then his spirit lifts its eyes to basanos, a place of torment! (Luke 16:23) Whereas the spirit of the person who believes in the true God, is carried in the bosom of Abraham after his death. (Luke 16:22) "Lazarus" means: God has helped. The truth that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself revealed about the condition after death, is not the same for every person! We can state with certainty that after death there is spiritual consciousness in both good people and bad people; they can remember the situation when they were still on earth, they can feel, they can see, they can hear, and the good people drink of the water of life. Explaining Scripture with Scripture: Ecclesiastes wrote, "but the dead know not any thing". (Ecclesiastes 9:5) While Abraham said to the rich man: "But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented." (Luke 16:25)

Incorrect, because there is One who is above His teaching, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. But my invitation to @Locust, you may also respond to that: "If you think you can prove that I have written something that is unbiblical, please explain it including Bible verses."

Hello Locust, I am convinced of what I have written, and I can explain it further using our Bible. But if you think you can prove that I have written something that is unbiblical, please explain it including Bible verses.

Hi @Retrobyter, When you respond please try to stay on topic by saying "amen" to my posts, or if you reject them, by specifically referencing the Bible. Have a nice day!

Greetings @AdHoc, Speaking of grammar, in 1 Peter 3:18 the subject is CHRIST, not Noah. The Lord Jesus Christ suffered for sins, not Noah. The Lord Jesus Christ was 'put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit', not Noah. And so the Lord Jesus Christ 'quickened by the Spirit' entered Hades, to preach His Gospel to the spirits of men. The Kurios God Himself entered Hades, and that had never happened before! David prophesied about it in Psalm 24. Psa 24:8-10 KJV Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

Hello and greetings @Retrobyter, The resurrection that the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of always begins with hearing and accepting His words. That is why it says: 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.' So not only 'is coming', but also 'and now is'. He said 'is coming', because that concerns the dead people who are held in Hades, and to whom the Lord Jesus Christ will preach in the Power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 23:46) after His death. Dying provides Him with the opportunity to also find this group in Hades and to save them too, hallelujah! But it is very clear that the Lord Jesus also said 'and now is'. 'and now is', happens at that one moment (now) when a person hears the Lord Jesus Christ and believes that He is the true God, loves Him and worships Him. At that moment the believer is born again and comes from darkness into the light. Through the new birth the sinner rises from the dead, and can live by God's grace. That is why Paul wrote: Eph 5:14 KJV Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and rise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.