Cntrysner

We are members of His Body which seems more to me than being a member of a priesthood which is expressed in Jewish law.

Send some thunder first...

I know I will not do a very good job with this but here it is … Revelation of the Gospel in scripture or the fullness in Christ’s sacrifice was progressive. Animal blood and water purification rituals under the law, manifestation of Christ as Israel’s Messiah, Sacrifice of the Messiah, miraculous gifts to prove God was in Christ, His shed blood for remission of sins without law, Holy Spirit indwelling to be born again. Each of these steps required acceptance to continue as a true believer and if any turned back or refused to proceeded in these progressive truths their salvation could be lost. Now we have the revelation of the body of Christ and as a member we are sealed with Christ’s righteousness and His eternal life which can not be lost or forfeited, we are kept by the power of God and we cry Abba Father and have no fear of losing eternal life. Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

@Michael37, What is your understanding of these scriptures... 1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

@AdHoc,Are you saying that the men Christ will tell to "depart from me" "in that day" were baptized by the Spirit, resurrected, born again Christians?

The biblical definition of sin is transgression of God’s law or His word. The law was given to reveal sin not to make one righteous by obedience to it. It’s origin is in the flesh of man passed to us from Adam. We are born sinners because sin is in the flesh and cannot be separated from the flesh thus we must be born again of the Spirit and the flesh must return the dust from which it came (Gen 3:19). God requires perfect righteousness (Mat 5:48) untainted with sin and the only perfect righteousness is God’s righteousness ( 2 Co 5:21), the righteousness of man is not acceptable because it is tainted with sin in the flesh. Sin and flesh are biblically synonymous and the only sinless flesh was the body of Christ therefore we must become a member of His body to be acceptable to God. Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Pain and suffering reveal the fall of man as the law reveals sin and both bring us to God when we understand we can do nothing about our destiny. We are sanctified or purified by the Spirit when we receive the blood of Christ (1 Pe 1:2) and it’s end result is glorification when we are change into His express image (2 Co 3:18) which is Spirit (2 Co 3:17). Right now we have the earnest of the Spirit (2 Co 1:22, 5:5) which is a down payment or a guarantee for what God has promised. It is as Paul said in 2Co 5:8... We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (I John 1:8). It is a constant and unchangeable fact that we are sinners, the flesh or Adamic nature cannot stop sinning even after salvation, it’s not a matter of will but inheritance. It only takes one bite of the apple or one strike against the rock in your lifetime to be excluded from God’s kingdom. It only takes one sin to taint the flesh making it unacceptable to be placed into the body of Christ. One’s body of flesh has to be totally with out sin, as Christ was in His life time, to be accepted into God’s heavenly kingdom. We can not abstain from sin or sacrifice our flesh enough to pay the penalty for sin. If the body of flesh was not acceptable under God’s law before eternal salvation, it will not be acceptable after salvation. It takes only one sin to be condemned (Rom 6:23) before salvation then it is logical that it would take only one sin to lose salvation if it were possible. Some believe it takes multiple sins or a continuance in sin but this idea conveys an excuse to sin based on their own acceptable limits. Born of the flesh and born of the Spirit ( Joh 3:6) are opposed to one another and the flesh wars against the Spirit (Gal 5:17). One must be removed ( 2 Col 2:11) to end the war. The old man must be thrown out with the bath water. Will God not keep His promise to those He has sealed ( Eph 1:13), will He undo His operations to create the new man (Col 2 11-14)? Will He not keep what He bought with His Son’s blood ( 1 Co 6:19)? Will the Sheppard not leave His flock for the stray (Mat 18:12)? Does the potter not have power over the clay ( Rom 9:20-23)? Will the Spirit in us not keep the tempter at bay (1 Co 10:13)? Will He take back His free Gift (Rom 6:23) or deny His grace (Eph 2:8)? It is God that keeps us by His power, we are not our own (1 Co 6:19). Who’s will can usurp God’s eternal plan? Who is head of the Body, does He not have control over His members? When you become a son of God in Christ and a member of His household your will is limited and definitely not free, if one does not agree then they do not understand God’s authority or the power of the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Do not rob God of His Grace in saying that His power through the Holy Spirit in you is not sufficient to keep you saved eternally. Don’t listen to those who try to make merchandise of you through the bondage of works and will worship or the ones that listen to them with itching ears thus excusing themselves or those that in their heart believe a lie and know not what they do and wish to glory in your flesh when you say, Amen. Let not our will be done but God’s will be done in us by His power.

Can a dead man sin? If we, the old man, truly died in Christ, how is it that he can sin again and lose the promise of eternal life. The old man did not resurrect with Christ, it was a new creature raised to walk in newness of life without sin. Sin is transgression of the law yet the new creature is not under law. This new man can not walk after the flesh because God removed him from that sinful body and placed him into the body of Christ who is without sin, in other words, if your are in Christ you cannot sin. The new man is still tripartite via the Holy Spirit inside of him. The new man is not of this world thus not visible to the world, all they can see is flesh of the dead man. Christ can not reside in a body of sin yet believers still sin, God solved this problem with circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh. We should not sin in the flesh but when we do and we will, it does not affect the new creature created by the operations of God. 1- The law was removed thus no sin. (Rom 6:14) 2- The old man died with Christ thus cannot sin. (Rom 6:6-7) 3- Circumcision of Christ removed the body of flesh. (Col 2:11) 4- Creation of new creature not of sinful world. (2Co 5:16-19) (Joh 15:19) 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Do you have scripture that they were born again? 2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. What about king David were his sins any less? Just one sin brings the penalty for sin which is death.

It was not my intention to come across as being such as you have labeled me. My concern is that a brother or the lost understands the fullness of Christ and places no efficacy on anything other than Him. I do apologize to him if he took it in the wrong way and will strive to word my comments differently in the future. I appreciate your concern and guidance.

Glad to hear you say water baptism is not necessary for salvation. I have kept pressing you to give me your understanding of water in Jon 3:5 which you have been avoiding. Is it true to say… you believe if you’re not water baptized you can not enter God’s kingdom? God’s kingdom is the inheritance of all born again son’s of God by faith in Christ with out works. There is no power in water baptism to grow spiritually, all things are given to us in Christ, we are complete in Him. All this, stronger faith, stronger Christian, and to feel the presence of the Lord came via water baptism? It seems your faith relies on the efficacy of water baptism which is much more than just a declaration of faith or a symbolic act of salvation already received. Do you see how it can rob Christ of His glory because all these things are only possible through Christ. I have found that those who believe their obedience or what they feel is a righteous work is required for salvation, also believe that one can lose their salvation which is not true for a born again son of God. It is God that seals us and keeps us, we are bought with a price and not our own. Are you now saying that one is not a true Christian unless they are water baptized and therefore not a disciple of Christ? Say it is not so! Brother, I pray that you come to the knowledge of the fullness in Christ Jesus. Salvation is by grace alone, His obedience and works so that the gift can be free. Many just can’t bring themselves to accept a free gift. Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. May God bless you and keep you by His Grace.

Clearly not all were believers some did not obey the truth and were still holding to works of the law. Many are called but few are chosen. Paul was addressing both believers and non believers. Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. Gal 4:20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Do you believe water baptism is necessary to be born again? Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I believe God removed sin and it’s penalty before placing us in Christ’s Body because God can not allow sin to corrupt His Body. We are weak in the flesh and always will be so God resolved this problem with circumcision which removes our body of flesh thus creating a new creature that can not sin. We wait in our shell of flesh which wars against the Spirit that God placed in us, as Paul said, I die daily and to be absent from his body of flesh is to be present with the Lord. Whether by death or rapture we will leave this shell revealing the Spirit inside of us and be clothed in Christ and no longer at war with the flesh. Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

You did not address what I posted concerning these scriptures..... Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? What did you do @Truswell to be born again? What was your experience and the process of it, If you believe one can lose salvation by actions of their free will then you must believe one gains salvation by their actions of free will. Please, address John 3:5 and given me the truth of it's meaning to you.

Faulty reasoning on your part... Born from the mothers womb-that's one born. Born of the Spirit- that's one born or born again. The context says nothing about one losing their salvation and regaining it which would be born a third time.

Yes, we must be transformed by His Spirit which I believe was God’s original intention when He said let us make man in our own image, God's image is Spirit not flesh. We experienced death to self and were buried with Him, then resurrected to walk in newness of life on this earth. We are waiting for ascension to be transfigured, literaly as He was, and sit with Him on His throne.

Hello, @Neighbor What is it that you don't get?

Adam’s body was created whole in the image of God and Eve was taken from his body indicating separation yet coequal in value for oneness. The two are only one in consummation yet they separate again. Adam is a type of headship to Christ who is the head and authority of the church body. One should not assume that we are coequal with Christ in authority yet we are one in Him and He will never separate from us. Marriage is not oneness for Israel was not one with God. Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Restoration of Man From the foundation of the world Adam, first created of God, and Eve were chosen to be in Eden but were cut off because of weakness in the flesh. They represented chosen Israel that also were cut off and became not God’s people. We Gentiles were not part of this now lost paradise thus not a part of this representation of Adam as the head or Eve as his wife taken out of Adam. We Gentiles are represented as the seed of the woman which were never in Eden. We that believe in Christ are born again by God not by the seed of a woman (Eve) or the seed of a man (Adam) but the Seed of God, who is the ascended Christ. This new man born fully developed, not a babe from water of the womb (Jon 3:3-12), is the Body of Christ which is without sin and definitely not a disobedient Adam or Eve but the true children of God chosen before the foundation of the world. Adam a type of Christ and Eve a type of the bride of Christ were a representation of Israel and their foundation is from the world thus their existence and understanding are connected to the earth as is Israel’s understanding and promises. Adam would need circumcision to remain in Eden as did Israel to remain in the promised land thus furthering the typology. Is the rib of Adam the correct translation when both male and female have the same number of ribs? Warning, Here’s where it is about to get graphic and I don‘t completely agree with this theory but it is interesting. הַ צֵּ לָ ע e·tzlo the·angular-organ “The word (rid) in the context of the story (Gen 2:20-23) should be rendered by a non-specific, general term—“one of his lateral limbs/branches/ appendages”—and understood as referring to limbs lateral to the vertical axis of an erect human body: hands, feet, or, in the case of males, the (private part). Of these appendages, the only one lacking a bone is (his private part).”---- Italic is where I change or added information. Primates have a baculum bone but man does not, evolutionist have no viable answer as to why. Eve was created using a bone (extension) or maybe the baculum of Adam and the flesh or foreskin of Adam (bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh (Gen2:23). The bone was used in forming her body making her subordinate or under the authority of Adam who came first and talked with God in the Garden. The flesh or foreskin may have been used to form the womb thus the first circumcision to remain in God’s paradise as Israel was required to be circumcised to enter the promised land (Jos 5:3). God performed an operation on Adam leaving a visible scar, which all males have, on the underside of their private part (Gen 2:21). God also circumcised Adam which is the type to Col 2:11, which is described as removal of the flesh. All males that opened the womb after Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden were uncircumcised (Gentiles) until God chose Israel for the promised land who as disobedient Adam and Eve became not God’s people, after Israel rejected Christ God turned to the Gentiles with a different program and promises. If Eve is a type of the bride of Christ then she can not re-enter the kingdom because she can not truly be circumcised in the flesh. The only way she can enter is to be in the Body of Christ which is neither male nor female but one new man (Eph 2). Adam lost his countenance and experienced death for Eve, if Adam would have refused his flesh, which Eve was a part of, he could have remained in the paradise of Eden. The key take away is the man (mankind) must be restored whole again in Christ not a separated bride from the man and enter God’s heavenly kingdom where he can walk and talk with God and see Him face to face.

Just wanted to add this to the mix......:) From the foundation of the world Adam, first created of God, and Eve were chosen to be in Eden but were cut off because of weakness in the flesh. They represented chosen Israel that also were cut off and became not God’s people. We Gentiles were not part of this now lost paradise thus not a part of this representation of Adam or Eve as a wife taken out of Adam. We Gentiles are represented as the seed of the woman which were never in Eden. When we that believe in Christ are born again by the Spirit not by the seed of a woman (Eve) or the seed of a man (Adam) but the Seed of God, who is the ascended Christ, and this new man born fully developed, not from the womb, is the Body of Christ without sin and definitely not a disobedient Adam or Eve but the true children of God chosen before the foundation of the world.

I rest on new testament scripture not the old. Please, give me your definition of the new testament … it made the old obsolete. If Christ had rested on old testament scripture He would have ceased from His work, thank God he did not do that. 2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. Christ did quote old testament scripture, in many cases it was to condemn them (Gal 3:10) and in others it was to remove the vail so they could see clearly (2 Co 3:16).

We are no longer under a schoolmaster (Gal 3:25) which was a shadow of things to come (2 Co 5:17)(Col 2:17). Shadows are not a foundation (1 Co 3:11) nor is law (Torah) our faith. One should not impose old testimony on the new by wresting the scriptures.

Shadows are not the very image...therefore old testament scripture can not define new testament scripture. 2Pe_3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

You did not waste your time here Adhoc. I am very busy this time of year and I will study what you have shared with me and get back to you. Thank you very much, sincerely.