Cntrysner

Retrobyter, Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Oh yes, we truly have been raised with Christ as the word of God (Col 2:12) says. It’s a matter of faith in the operations of God. Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. The natural man can not understand the things of God who sees things as they spiritually and truly are. Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things (summons) which be not as though they were (truly are). 1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

Hello Retrobyter, I enjoy reading your post. How does Romans 6:2-7 support water baptism is a picture of our baptism into Christ? Clearly Paul is speaking of Spirit baptism which has nothing to do with water immersion but is an operation of God by the Spirit not a operation of man. Col_2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 1Co_12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Before John the Baptist, Jews under the law of Moses were practicing ritual immersion in the form of entering into a mikveh for purification from sin before entering the temple. John’s baptism in the river Jordon for sin remission was nothing new and it meet all requirements under the law (Mark 1:3-4). We know the death of Christ freed us from the law if we believe. Mar 1:6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey; Mar 1:7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. When Jesus speaks of baptism in Mar 16:16 it is baptism by the Spirit which He will perform as John said He would do. All we have to do is believe in Christ. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. Christ ascended and the Father sent His Spirit so that we might receive eternal life through Him. The Lord is that Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty (2 Co 3:17) from the law, ordinances such as water baptism, and man’s obedience in works of righteousness. The answer of a good conscience toward God (1 Peter 3:21) is to believe in the resurrection of the ascended Christ and His Spirit in us will do the rest.

Mr. M Baptism in water would be a righteous work and we know it's not by works of righteousness. We now have the Holy Spirit of the ascended Christ that freed us from works of righteousness for salvation. Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. From G1658; freedom (legitimate or licentious, chiefly moral or ceremonial): - liberty. Christ Jesus by the Spirit baptizes us into his body superseding the need for water baptism. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. The drinking of the Spirit cleanses the spirit of man on the inside where it counts. Eternal life is received by the obedience of one so the gift of righteousness may be free (without man's works of righteousness). Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Thanks for your response Mr. M. 1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: The verse clearly says this baptism saves us and you stated water baptism is efficacious which would mean the act of water baptism saves . Do you believe water baptism is required for salvation? A better understanding of this baptism would be to not add the word water to the verse.

Mr. M What result was produced by water baptism if it has efficacy or was it just a witness of something far greater?

Here's some scripture to ponder... Christ the Wisdom and Power of God 1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

So, do you see resurrection of the flesh the same as Harpazo? Please explain.

To me it is the difference between the Spirit and the flesh not the ones who cry the loudest with insults. Cry a river if you will but it is bitterness. Rejoice in the Lord for He is the giver of all good things that man can not attain in their flesh through works. All things that are eternal to man are by the grace of God and not of works because if it is of works it is no more grace and grace is not judgment. God said my grace is sufficient but some lie to themselves believing in their own works thus becoming a stumbling block to others that have itching ears.

Scripture tells us that we are baptized into to his body. Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: If we have been planted in the likeness of His death then we have assuredly already been resurrected from the dead with Him. Therefore death has no dominion over us for we were circumcised from this fleshly body of sin by an operation of God (Col 2:11-13). If you believe God’s operation is true you are no longer in the flesh because God cut it away you can not be judged because that body is dead, why would you want it resurrected for judgment? Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Recon yourselves resurrected from the dead and walking this earth alive in Christ. Your flesh was cut away and in God's eyes it is not part of you anymore (Col 2:1-13). You are a new creature looking for a new creation to live in and are no longer mindful of earthly things but we need to continue to follow the path of our resurrected Christ because we are members of His body. Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The Father has removed us from the flesh (Col 2:11)) (physical) but you aren't? Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Spiritually; yes, physically; no. 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

We in Christ are not of this world. Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Well said and it amazes me that some look forward to a judgment seat to receive crowns or to be elevated above other believers not realizing the rewards they seek at judgment will have a dark side revealing their sin (good or bad) which will bring them under wrath. Our inheritance in Christ is more than kings and priests for we in Christ are the sons and daughters of God in Christ and there is no higher reward.

Scripture tells us that we are baptized into to his body. Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: If we have been planted in the likeness of His death then we have assuredly already been resurrected from the dead with Him. Therefore death has no dominion over us for we were circumcised from this fleshly body of sin by an operation of God (Col 2:11-13). If you believe God’s operation is true you are no longer in the flesh because God cut it away, why would you want it resurrected? Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Recon yourselves resurrected from the dead and walking this earth alive in Christ. Your flesh was cut away and in God's eyes it is not part of you anymore (Col 2:1-13). You are a new creature looking for a new creation to live in and are no longer mindful of earthly things but we need to continue to follow the path of our resurrected Christ as our prototype. After Christ’s resurrection he ascended back to the Father and His resurrected body began to transform into a different or another body that could enter the presence of the Father who is a consuming fire. Transfiguring Christ began to shine with divine glory (Mat 17:2) burning away the body of sin and it is in that same glory that Christ appeared to Paul (Acts 22:11). John’s account of the ascended Christ… Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. The image of the resurrected Christ in the flesh pales in comparison to the image of the ascended Christ who sent His Holy Spirit to dwell in us. Christ is the Light and that Spirit (1 Pet 1:11). Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. If we follow Christ and walk worthy of our calling then our hope is to be where He is in heavenly places not on this earth (Eph2:6) in a resurrected body of flesh.