Thornbird

Something that might assist in getting closer to what is the matter of today's church is to remember Yeshua and his Disciples. Yeshua was God, and God was their teacher. Then, when it was time, Yeshua washed and anointed their feet. That they would be blessed and appointed as his Apostles and to then go into all the world and bring his good news so that those whom God predestined to receive it could be saved. Notice they were, like Yeshua, itinerate teachers. They journeyed about the middle east and beyond and preached the gospel. They didn't go forth and establish church structures and remain in residence as pastors. Jesus stands at the door of God's Elect and knocks. In that well known painting that depicts the passage from Revelation 3 how many have noticed one very subtle missing feature? There is no doorknob on Jesus' side of the door. He knows our address. We open the door. Each one of us are the church. We are temples indwelt by the most high from the moment God willed us conceived If you believe life starts at conception you know this. Maybe the reason some denominational churches are in trouble, the reason churches are losing members, is because God never intended us to manufacture a group think, a collective, of the faithful gathering on a day not the Sabbath. Being told by one appointed member how to understand text in a book compiled over a period of 1500 years, and written by over 40 different men. And according to how that appointed one was taught to understand it when they attended divinity college, or the like. You see, we're all here on this one of many forums. Gathered as believers in Christ, convinced we are saved, in Christ, and he in us. And we discuss any number of bible topics as we each personally understand them. And then, because naturally, when personal understanding is naturally taken personally we find ourselves making what only seems to be objective observations regarding the difference between teachers and not. And requisite humility and not. Yet each one of us who enters into a discussion regarding Apologetics, Soteriology, Exegesis, etc...and explain our beliefs as we understand those topics are acting as teachers. And not as humble receptive students. Because while we may say something that implies or states we are receptive to another's pov, how many of us here have stated we were wrong in our understanding? And accept another's perspective while vacating our own. Because when we enter a debate of this nature, we're not asking to be taught what we are already defending as our personal knowledge. Genuine debate, the rules, proceed from an impersonal detached platform. What we're engaging in here is a matter of deeply personal relationship with God, and as relates to the eternal destiny of our own soul. Threads proceed for sometimes dozens of pages. One Christian forum I know of has a thread about works salvation that has carried on for years. And has thousands of pages of replies. The topic itself, as is the case with all bible topics, is answered by God in the bible. Yet, it isn't that easy because works salvation is a topic in scripture that is answered twice. And in contradiction to one another. As is every topic as relates to the Gospel in the bible. And that is why we argue,debate, taking our individual understanding of scripture personally. Because each one of us is sure we understand. And while we may appreciate someone else's perspective, and even adopt it, we are still convinced we, each one of us, knows what salvation is, what it means to be saved, and are so. What we're defending is written, and are told to believe Jesus said was put into print by the hands of men, the judgement of councils, and the politics of governments. How many here have said, I believe in the bible? God is everywhere. All that exists is evidence. God leads us to the awareness of that Holy Spirit that is innate in all creation and created. That door God knocks on is our consciousness. Arriving at that awareness, that we are never separated from our innate source, is opening that door. "We would never know of Jesus if not for the bible. " If that is something that ran through your mind after reading this far, you missed it. Man divided the church of God by inventing a devisive doctrine that makes a creator of all things to have predestined some of us to eternal damnation and special others unto eternal glory. Prejudged, predestined, to be all that God created us to be by his will and plan. The ultimate, Us vs. Them. When all that exists is both of and from Creator, how does God damn and save himself? He doesn't. Yet, that segregation of the human race has pitted us against one another for thousands of years. When in truth we all come from the same place; God. The bible is the compass, as God wills. It shows you where to look to find what is eternally there. God. But it isn't to be believed in. Because that misses the point and is idolatry. If you believe the bible leads you to salvation, that is why you debate and ever shall. Over 2000 years since Yeshua, and the world is worse now. Not better for it. Because we hold up the ideal of bettering ourselves by believing we have to stay within the parameters of a template men designed to make slaves of the world, and masters of those who claim they know how to teach us to get free of our chains. Because we're defending the doctrine formed in the image and likeness of men. It's why they determined there are things you are forbidden to know according to their determination. "Non-Canonical", Apocrypha. The Holy Spirit is within and always has been. Because all things are both of and from Holy Spirit. That's that good news that saves us from the illusion we're born damned unless we're deemed, predestined, to be made better by the creator that made us damned first because of Adam's "choice". While it was God that created the tree of knowledge in the garden, and created a law against eating of it. People will insist God didn't predestine all things. Not even that. But if you read the Bible you know how much of it is prophecy. What is prophecy but God telling you what he has planned. What is Salvation according to the bible given that? Asking God to save you from God. Because the Devil doesn't judge us and send us to Heaven or Hell. And we don't send ourselves to either place either because left to our human nature, we're already damned because we were born to be sinners. By God's will. Else, rather than wait thousands of years he'd have forgiven Eve and Adam for being led to disobedience, and sent the Devil away rather than have already made him lord of this world God intended humans to inhabit. Why do we argue over the bible? Maybe because that is God's way of telling us to stop believing in what's on the page. And instead listen to what is preaching from within. If God is love why were you damned for being born human, by God's will? That's what's kept the church of man in business all these years. We fight because we're scared to die wrong. Don't worry. God always speaks "his" (gender pronouns apply to a spirit? No.) truth no matter where or what seeks to obscure it. And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. "Be ye holy as I am holy." Jesus. That wasn't a command, that was a reminder. You are born human.And as is all creation, and created, you are both of and from God. Amen.😇 And farewell .

Oookayyyyy.

Jesus said he taught in parables because not everyone was meant to understand the good news message and be saved. They did reach those whom God intended to understand them.

Jesus said he taught in parables because not everyone was meant to understand the good news message and be saved. They did reach those whom God intended to understand them.

Do you include yourself amid that flock?

Agreed. Christ is always there for his Elect.

Thank you. However, I wasn't asking as one intending to start the poll someone else introduced into the discussion. Though it would be interesting to read the results should such a poll come aboard.😊

And yet there is not a universal accord in the corporation. As evidenced by the numerous denominations and their respective, diverse, doctrines. Just as with parables. Designed to obscure truths, none the less there is not a universal corporate accord as to their meaning. Example: Luke 16. It is not the literal bosom of Abraham being described in the chapter. However, some readers believe the parable refers to paradise. Others believe it refers to heaven.

Parables are not literal.

Yes, however that has nothing to do with my observation that for the most part bible scholars don't join Christian discussion forums. And Lord knows bible scholars, including their teachers, are diverse in their understanding. They don't arrive at a universal accord on all fields of study.

Are polls able to be created in thread form here?

Are you living in the states? Churches anywhere in America can never hope to fight the AC of prophecy if they're unwilling now to stand against government overreach. And the violation of the separation clause. Here I know of at least two church properties now for sale or lease. And due to their closing due to the lockdown rule. Interestingly, the same can't be said for mosques nor synagogues. (If only we could review posts before committing to posting)

Interestingly in this forum and others like it, that's precisely what occurs. Personal interpretation of the scriptures. Largely because actual scholars don't tend to join.

Injecting fear into a society and then vilifying those who do not concede to both be frightened and then submit to the curative for that implanted fear, is a tactic commonly preceding political "isms". Fascism, Communism, Socialism . In America at the start of this "Plandemic", we were witness to our Constitutional Democratic Republic being overcome , through the injection of the COVID-19 fear paradigm, by an illegal Authoritarian Dictatorship. And then, to make that seem plausible, we were paid to accept it. Stimulus checks. Interestingly enough, a year or so prior to those being cut and mailed, the Dem's, Bernie Sanders, a multimillionaire who brags he's a Democratic Socialist, and his self-identified protege, Congressional freshman AOC, were campaigning for that very thing. Boasting how their plan, part of the Green New Deal , which was not their original thought, would allow us to stay home and still get paid.And have our rent or mortgage covered too . During COVID-19 we were made to feel secure in that way, paid mortgage, rent. With the added bonus rule in the C-19 lockdown rules that prevented eviction. "Essential Worker" : A label that allowed people to go outside without fear of arrest. In this area the Administrative branch of government of at least 1 state I know of had local news and affiliates broadcast, and for days, an alert that encouraged residents to turn in their neighbors should they be witnessed disobeying the lockdown policy when not deemed essential. And do we really Think Dem's were pushing that public Socialist paid-to-Stay Home idea before releasing the lockdown agenda to Guage public response? Then applied the stimulus monies using fear of a weaponized flu virus as the culprit in order to get the public to consent to self-isolate? Which we were already doing given people could stay home and not venture out to shop, pay bills,or communicate with one another. Now, people are being led to believe in a vaccine. The likes of which has been studied in labs world wide since the late 1980's. mRNA. Yet, it has never been approved for use before this. I believe this whole program is a collaboration between nations. With China in league. Yet made to appear the villain, as it was a lab in Wuhan China where the virus was loaded for later dispersal. China has a history of population controls policy. The former "one child" rule was enforced for years. I think that's why the vaccine "is now" approved for children near the age of puberty. And why Covid positive elderly, seniors years ago were called useless eaters by then SoS Henry Kissinger, were housed in public nursing homes. Afterward COVID numbers in those facilities increased and many died. Note, private facilities were exempt. No surprise. And it isn't yet over. Nor shall be the need for boosters among those who have already consented to be vaccinated. COVID=Certificate Of Vaccination ID? 🤔

Parables are not literal.

Parables are not literal.

I wonder how many in the church will concede to this effort come time. Will they make excuses for why this is a good thing? How many liberties and freedoms have been brought under the yoke and shackles when the leading into a new slavery begins with the invite, that concessionary preamble, "... it's for the common good." Falsity can't deceive "even the Elect, as if that were possible"...It shall lead those who falsely believed they were of the Elect.

“All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them.” Matt 13:34 “But without a PARABLE spoke He not unto them…” Mark 4:34 “This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them.” John 10:6 “And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable. And He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables." “That seeing they may see, and not perceived: and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them. And He said unto them, Know ye not this parable? And how then will you know all parables?” Mark 4:10-13 “And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is NOT given.” Matthew 13:10-11 Not everyone understood Jesus message. Because they weren't meant to.

Jesus taught using parables.

Sounds like something personal motivated this thread.

Anyone else flashed back to the classic Sci-Fi Schwarzenegger movie, Terminator? The world run by machines and one major company in control of those robots. "Cyberdyne, Inc is also the name of a real life Japanese company which manufactures robotic suits. The company "Hyperdyne Systems" which manufactures synthetics in the Alien franchise is a play on Cyberdyne."Link 🤖

I wonder if hackers could change the operating system in these AI security bots?

Not surprising in the least. Think of all the tracking methods currently active in our lives and on our person. The chip on my debit cards looks just like the chip on my cells simcard. A pill that leads to tracking data. And to think, real pills digest and the rest is voided from our bodies. Not this time. I wonder how this will connect to the Federal mandatory by 2023 "Real ID"?

She was Christian. I started this thread thinking better people than heartless judges would appear. I was wrong. Please close this thread. Store the travesty escalates to further embarrassment for the guilty.

Zero compassion. How sad in those identifying as Christ like.