Dan Knight

No need. I fully believe in the extent of destruction caused by the flood. Just don't believe that the garden of Eden was destroyed. Why at that moment? How many years between the toss and the flood? Why the wait. Scripture wise, why the wait?

Agreed not accessible by man, but not because of any flood. Your saying that because of the flood it stands to reason that the garden was destroyed. My garden, yes, but not the garden of God.[ 23therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.] personally I believe the garden of Eden is still very much intact. Not accessible to man because of the guard.

Well, just because you don't see the point, doesn't mean that there isn't one. You, simply cannot see it. But, I have not ever heard that the garden of Eden was destroyed in the flood. Please, which scripture says directly that the garden of Eden was destroyed?

I agree. My point is this, that Adam and Eves sin was believing that God was a liar. What He was accused of lying about was death. The devil told Eve, "you shall not surely die". They were removed from the Garden before they could eat of the tree of life and live forever. And what are we taught from the pulpit? That when we depart this existence we shall go to heaven and live forever or to hell and live forever, but " you shall not surely die".

When I was a child sometimes I would be told to not do a particular thing and I would end up doing it. When confronted by my dad I told him that someone else said that I could do it. Of course I would be in trouble with pop. I clearly remember him saying, "I am your father, not him". (the person who said I could). Eve and Adam did the same thing. God said don't, devil said do it. They each made a choice to go against God in favor of the someone else. Can the "Ten Commandments " be read with the same idea, God saying I Am your Father, not him! (The devil).

Can anyone sneak into the garden of Eden and take something from Him that He said we could not have?

Yes.

Why was Adam and Eve removed from the Garden of Eden?

God has many names. Each one reveals a particular nature of Him. Like Jerusalem..King of Peace. He is called The Lamb of God. And many others that reveal to us who He is.

Typically, when I perceive that someone is in a need that God must provide and it is something that I am familiar with, by experience, I speak to God saying they need you, not me. I am nothing but you are everything. I am careful to say that. Now I know that the thing needed is something that God provides by way of a human, that's my experience. I've long accepted that when I ask God to send help to someone, often I am the help He sends. But still it weighs on my mind that He is what is needed, not me. Today, I'm speaking to Him about someone. This time I say, " They need us.." I stopped to correct myself, but felt strongly persuaded to leave it said as it is said. I said to God, " I'm going to reach out for advise in considering this, 'need us' thing." What sayest ye?

Agreed. Only you don't have to be a scholar, or Jewish or any other worldly educated being. Jewish faith of old took the law recieved by Moses and turned it into over 600 rules and laws. Jesus rebuked them because of that. Paul was a well versed scholar of the same scriptures and he firmly believed that he was doing God's will by heavily persecuting the Christians. Nor do you have to be simple and/or ignorant. What we have to be is chosen by God Himself to understand what He will teach us. We must be like a child, eager and open to re-learning everything. Everything. The hardest part of learning something new is to unlearn the old. 1 JOHN 2:27 " But the anointing which ye have received from Him abideth in you, and ye have no need that any man teach you. But as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him." ...as it, the Holy Spirit, has taught you, that is how you dwell with Him. Remember when the boys cast lots to have God decide in Judas replacement? Who was appointed 'official bones reader'? No one. So how did they know of God's choice? Where do we see Jewish College there? That's what the Pharisees feared. They would lose the high positions which were defined by the ignorance of the masses. Paul' story as he goes from important Pharisee of power to apostle of Jesus Christ, from being served to serving, from death to life.

My smiley face reaction was directed to the fellow who said most are not educated or wise enough to comprehend scripture. And he suggested that attempts to were, in his opinion, stupid. THAT is funny as Christianity 101 is Matt 11:25.

Ps 16:8-11 I have set the Lord always before me; Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved. 9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices; My flesh also will [d]rest in hope. 10 For You will not leave my soul in [e]Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to [f]see corruption. in this ps David is glorifying God for His deeds. Your Holy One is more correctly translated as pious. ( Strong's Concordance chasid: kind, pious Original Word: חָסִיד Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: chasid Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-seed') Definition: kind, pious ) David is referring to himself as a pious man. That is ok because he gave God the credit. :2 O my soul, you have said to the Lord, “You are my Lord, My goodness is nothing apart from You.” :1-8 David acknowledges God's faithfulness in keeping His Word. He states that because of that, (vs:1-8), or how it begins at :vs 9.. Therefore....(...:9 my flesh will rest in hope, :10 for You will not leave my soul in Sheol..) David does not fear being abandoned in the grave. David acknowledges the resurrection and firmly believes God will bring him back from death. ...Nor will You allow Your Holy One, (referring to himself as a pious man by God's Grace) to see corruption. David is referring to his pious life to decay away from Godliness. He acknowledges God as being not only responsible for his goodness, but also as the Maintainer of his life. :11 You will show me the path of life;

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. to little children. νηπίοις (nēpiois) Adjective - Dative Masculine Plural Strong's Greek 3516: From an obsolete particle ne- and epos; not speaking, i.e. An infant; figuratively, a simple-minded person, an immature Christian. thank you for the opportunity to testify for the Lord!

Rambling on? No. You speak in an impassioned way. You believe from the depths of your heart in what God has shown you. I suppose some may view your posts as rambling, and some may see it as aggression, and others will see your stand as refreshing. 1Tim 6 Fight the good fight of the faith

They did wrong and followed up with an impure attempt at repentance. Genesis 3:12 And the man said, “The woman whom Thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.” 13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, “What is this that thou hast done?” And the woman said, “The serpent beguiled me, and I ate.” although they expressed wrong doing in their actions, namely hiding from God, their carefully planned verbal responses lack the elements consistent with true repentance as required by God. The woman said the devil made her do it and the man said the woman You gave me made me do it. Excuses, whether factual or not, don't constitute repentance. I believe that God has given us an insight into what He considers the very beginning of true repentance when He asked Adam if he had eaten of the forbidden tree. Its not what Adam said, but what he didn't say. "Yes I did". And we are shown the reason Adam sought to share blame with the woman and God in his hiding from God. He was afraid. Fear is the great wall between God and man.

Adam and Eve believed the devil . Is that an example of rejecting God?

No.

Romans 1. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Wasn't referring to your post. Retract your claws. I was agreeing that no second chance. And elaborated on my thoughts.

And on the other side when speaking of no second chance, that sounds like the unpardonable sin. The word chance does not set well with me. It's like trying out, but not good enough to make the team. Or a throw of the dice and hope you are lucky. The unpardonable sin I understand as someone who has received the Holy Spirit and experienced the goodness of God for a time, then of their own free will decides they do not want to be part of what He has to offer. If there is none good but God, how can we ever be not good enough. Indeed, who can be saved?

Agreed. Every one must choose. The Offer of Life or Death Deut 30:11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. 15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. no excuses.

Have You considered that now is not the only time that humans can be saved. There is the general resurrection when all that have ever lived will be resurrected. Also consider the 1000 years that Satan will be bound so he cannot influence humans, but at the end of that time he will be loosed for a short time. Why?

This past weekend I came across a preacher on the radio. He was talking about a time when Christian Folk was being tortured for righteousness sake. Beheading, burned alive and other types of persecution. Then He said, about the time this was occurring, that, " It was not a good time to be a Christian. " I changed the channel before he got 2 more words out. Of course it was, at the very least, the wrong thing to say. I don't understand how any Christian could even entertain the notion of a time that being Christian is "..not a good time.." I didn't invest any time into considering his views. But it did strike a cord. I have heard other preachers say if you ain't suffering persecutions then something is terribly wrong in your life. It means the devil ain't out to get you cause he's already got you. Nonsense. Earlier in this thread someone suggested that they were being blessed by God but not due to persecutions. I find that acceptable. Others do suffer persecutions at various degrees and celebrate the blessings of God through their endurance. I find that equally acceptable. What He has for me is for me. What He has for you is for you. But all is for the glory of God.