FreeGrace

Ok, so in what image was Adam created? I rest my case. And a question for you: How can Romans 5 be true if Adam's sin nature isn't passed down to progeny? And a request for you: since you claim that Scripture "proves otherwise", could you please quote any verse that actually says what you say? If you can't do that, I'll know what you claim is an opinion.

But I agree with this! what died "on the day" was Adam's spirit. It didn't go away, but became like a corpse. And that is why everyone is born spiritually dead, which means their human spirit is dead, and why they need to be born again. They are free to their own conclusions. But the very words "RE-generation", "made alive" DO mean something, and what I believe is completely logical and reasonable. And fits everything. How do you explain what literally is "made alive" or "RE-generated"? I can only guess that your answer will be something about figurative language, metaphors, etc. But that only allows a view that can't be challenged or proved. When Jesus told Nic at nite he must be born again, He wasn't using figurative language. He was being literal. Just as He was with the woman at the well.

The "image of God" is genetically passed to progeny.

Exactly! God created Adam with a body, soul and human spirit (1 Thess 5:23) which reflects (image) the Triune God. When Adam ate the fruit, it was his human spirit that died "on the day" he ate it. So everyone is born spiritually dead, meaning their human spirit is dead. And that is why everyone needs to be born again or RE-generated or made alive (Eph 2:5). So even in spiritual death, man is still in the image of God.

Of course! Paul once wrote this: One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5 The good news is that when we get to eternity, we'll have full knowledge of things we don't have now!

Your illustration was pretty cool! And something did DIE "on the day Adam ate...". The only logical thing would be the spirit. It didn't go away, but quit functioning. Like a dead body quits functioning. Still there but of no use. That is why Jesus told the woman at the well one must worship God "in spirit and in truth". iow, one must have a functioning human spirit and worship according to God's truth (the Bible). There's a better explanation of the "second death" that is solidly biblical. From Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15, there will be a (singular) resurrection of the saved and a (singular) resurrection of the unsaved. Rev 20:4-6 places the singular resurrection of the saved at the Second Advent, and is called the "first resurrection". And then after 1,000 years (Millennial Reign) there will be the singular resurrection of the unsaved, because God fries all the mortals living on earth at the end of the Millennium. So, when the unbeliever is cast into the LOF, his still mortal resurrected body will DIE AGAIN. But not his soul. That will "be tormented day and night, for ever and ever" per Rev 20:10. Yes, several verses describe the LOF as the second death. It's the still mortal resurrected bodies of the unbelievers as they are cast into the LOF. The point is that the Hebrew word is used in a wide variety of ways. But God created man in His image. God is Triune, and man is tripartite. Fits perfectly. "on the day" Adam ate the fruit, something DIED. The only thing that fits would be the human spirit. Everyone is born spiritually dead (human spirit). At faith in Christ, the person is "born AGAIN", "RE-generated" or "made alive". That can only refer to the human spirit.

Gen 2:7. God breathed into Adam the soul/spirit complex. 1 Thess 5:23 mentions the 3 parts of man, so there's no reason to ignore that fact. And it explains specifically what died when Adam ate the fruit. The Holy Spirit can't die, nor is His leaving a body a death. And Heb 4:12 clearly shows the soul and spirit are related but separate. Just like the bones and marrow. Everything fits perfectly. So what am I missing?

Yes, I agree. But we know that man has a soul and spirit, both of which are immaterial. When else would God have put a spirit other than when He breathed into Adam's nose the "breath of life"? I think it's obvious. I agree. And the very words "RE-generation", "born AGAIN", and "made alive" are literal words that mean something literal. The only thing that fits is the human spirit, which did die on the day Adam ate the fruit and then hid from the Lord. Therefore, every human being is born spiritually dead, which refers to the human spirit, and is why everyone needs to be born again, or RE-generated, in order to worship God. Jn 4:24 I don't understand this nor how it might refer to the 3 parts of man. The human spirit doesn't just disappear at death. It stays with man until it is born again, if the person believes in the Savior. I don't believe God breathed the Holy Spirit into Adam. We know from 1 Thess 5:23 that man has 3 parts; body, soul and spirit. And Heb 4:12 indicates that the soul and spirit are related but separate. These are the things that convince me. Oh, btw, the literal Hebrew of Gen 2:17, which is the warning against eating the fruit, is "on the day you eat of it, DYING you shall surely die." Two mentions of death iin the original. The first one, dying, is a process word. One dies of old age, or various serious illnesses. I believe Gen 5:5 records Adam's age from the day he ate the fruit and he began to age. We have no information about how long Adam lived before he ate the fruit. The second mention, die, occurred on the day he ate. That was immediate, and refers to the human spirit literally dying when he ate. And this is spiritual death.

Gen 1:26 says God created man "in His image". God (Elohim) is plural, meaning more than one. The Bible describes the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as God, that makes 3, so God is Triune. 1 Thess 5:23 describes the 3 parts of man: body, soul and spirit. Heb 4:12 says the Word of God divides soul and spirit. That means there are 2 immaterial parts of man, both of which were breathed into Adam, which then made him "a living being". And not until then. All of this clearly supports the understanding that when Adam ate the fruit, he became spiritually dead. So naturally, that would refer to the human spirit. Can't be the soul, since the soul includes the conscious, intellect, emotions, etc. The human spirit, according to Jesus is necessary for worshiping God. John 4:24.

God breathed it into man, so it involves a human. What I have to deal with are the clear words: RE-generation, born AGAIN, made ALIVE. These are literal things. And 1 Thess 5:23 speaks of 3 things involved in humans; body, soul and spirit. And they are literal as well. So the only thing that makes sense to me regarding what died "on the day" Adam ate the fruit would be the human spirit. Souls don't die, and Adam didn't die until 930 years later (Gen 5:5). And being born with a dead human spirit explains the words "spiritually dead". Yes, we are separated from God, because our human spirit is dead at birth. Which is why we MUST be born again. In order to be able to worship God, per John 4:24. Heb 4:12 indicates the soul and spirit can be separated. They are related but separate. Just as bone and marrow are related but separate.

After A & E, every human is pro-created, from God's plan. God created A & E in His image. That means the first 2 humas were created tripartite, to reflect the Triune God. There is no other way to define "image". 1 Thess 5:23 - body, soul and spirit. When Adam sinned, what died "on the day" was his human spirit. That is why every human is born with a dead human spirit, which is described as being "spiritually dead". And the reason everyone needs to be born AGAIN. When a person believes in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross for salvation, they are RE-generated, meaning their dead human spirit is "made alive", per Eph 2:5.

There is no mention of condemnation in these verses, but v.10 is clear that all of our works/deeds/etc will be evaluated (judged). v.11 focuses on the fact that bad deeds, even quite morally good deeds, though done in the power of the sinful nature, will result in loss of reward. Yes, at both judgments, the Bema and GWT, the King will evaluate all the deeds done by each person, the saved and the unsaved. As John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 say, condemnation is only for those who "have not believed", meaning have NEVER believed.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. The red words are clear to me. Which reminds me of 2 verses that say that condemnation is only for those who have never believed, John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. The phrase "have not believed" means "have never believed". Those are who will be condemned.

It appears Rom 8:1 is referring to the ultimate condemnation, or the LOF, which won't be an issue for believers.

Thanks for pointing out Gen 9:6, which is further evidence that even though man now has a sin nature, he is still in the image of God, which points to body, soul and spirit as to what the "image" is; namely, man is tripartite and God is Triune. So even unbelievers have a human spirit, but is dead, which we call spiritual death. And with faith in Christ, the human spirit is "made alive" (Eph 2:5) or RE-generated, and man becomes a 'new creation' (2 Cor 5:17).

Yes, based on how the Bible describes humans, which links to how God created man. Well, this I disagree with. What evidence is there for animals having both a soul and spirit? But you did. 😁 Ruach and its other forms has a broad usage, from God Himself to the wind. The obvious given that the brain of both man and animal is the 'computer' that runs the body, that may be the meaning in Eccl 3:21 and similar verses. Again, I disagree that animals have both a body and spirit. Gen 2:17 is a clear warning about death from eating the fruit. In the actual Hebrew, there are 2 deaths. English translations: in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die. Literal Hebrew: in the day that you eat of it, DYING you shall surely DIE. This is easily verified by googling "literal Hebrew of Gen 2:17". Some sites will acknowledge the fact and then say it isn't significant, while others will note the significance. I, for one, see great significance in the warning. We know that both A & E died on that day. But it wasn't physical, obviously. So what else could have died? If the soul, then they would be vegetables, basically. So the only other logical and reasonable option is the spirit. That is where "spiritual death" comes from. Adam's spirit died, rendering his relationship with God severed, which is why he and the woman hid when the Lord came calling. Jesus told the woman at the well in John 4:24 that one "must worship God in spirit and in truth". On biblehub.com the "spirit" is capitalized, but the other 32 translations isn't capitalized. I believe Jesus was telling the woman that in order to worship God one must possess a functional (living) human spirit and worship according to God's plan (truth). This is why everyone needs to be born AGAIN, or RE-generated or "made alive". These words specifically indicate a change in the person, which I am convinced is the regeneration of the dead human spirit. That is what makes the believer a "new creation" per 2 Cor 5:17. While you are defining the 'soul', include a definition of 'spirit' which you believe animals have as well. As for me (and my household) lol, I believe animals have brain function similar (parallel?) to man's, but lack any conscience, which differentiates animals from humans. Animals were created with instinct. They do what they were created to do, unlike humans. That's why some humans act like animals. But we never see any animals acting like humans. 😁

I thought we were. What am I missing? Believers are to be in awe of the King's justice and afraid of what we'll miss out on reward.

All summed up in the tripartite man: body, soul and human spirit. 1 Thess 5:23

Exactly! No, but all humans possess a body, a soul and a human spirit, which is dead at birth but "made alive" (Eph 2:5) through faith in Christ. (Eph 2:8) Correct. But all humans having a body, soul and spirit does exactly fit the definition of God's image. The animal, plant, fish, and bug kingdoms don't have a soul, where the intellect, emotions, conscience etc resides. I think what makes us "human" is our tripartite existence; body, soul and spirit. I know I sound like a broken recotrd, but it is very important in order to understand about spiritual death and life.

So, God creating man "in OUR image" with body, soul and human spirit" fulfills the requirement for "everyone to equally share it". Everyone is born with a body, soul, but dead human spirit. That is why everyone needs to be born again, or "made alive" (Eph 2:5). Right. Body, soul and spirit. Man was created tripartite just as God is Triune.

As I pointed out, the Greek word is used in two ways: phobos: Fear, terror, reverence, respect Original Word: φόβος Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: phobos Pronunciation: FOH-bos Phonetic Spelling: (fob'-os) Definition: Fear, terror, reverence, respect Meaning: (a) fear, terror, alarm, (b) the object or cause of fear, (c) reverence, respect. Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: - H3374 (yirah): Fear, reverence, piety - H3373 (yare): Fearful, afraid, reverent Usage: In the New Testament, "phobos" primarily denotes a sense of fear or terror, often in response to the divine or supernatural. It can also imply reverence or awe, particularly in the context of the fear of the Lord, which is a profound respect and recognition of God's power and holiness. The term is used both in a negative sense, as in fear of danger or judgment, and in a positive sense, as in reverence for God. Cultural and Historical Background: In the Greco-Roman world, "phobos" was commonly associated with fear of the gods, natural phenomena, or military threats. In Jewish thought, the fear of the Lord was a central theme, emphasizing a relationship with God characterized by awe, obedience, and worship. This dual aspect of fear—both as terror and reverence—reflects the broader cultural understanding of the divine as both protector and judge. Seems to me that believers should and will respect and revere the King's judgment on our lives on earth, whether they have been "good or bad", as v.10 says. The terror part would refer to our bad behavior, and how much reward we'll lose/miss out on. But also, respect and awe for the King's perfect judgment regarding our lives. We know from the fact that there will be a resurrection for both the saved and unsaved, and 1 Cor 15:23 clearly shows that "those who belong to Him" (all saved people) will be resurrected "when He comes", a reference to the Second Advent. Then, Rev 20:5 shows the "first" resurrection (of believers) will be 1,000 years before the second resurrection (of unbelievers), followed immediately by the GWT judgment, which will be for unbelievers only. So the Bema is for believers and the GWT is for unbelievers. Since all believers will already have been resurrected and glorified 1,000 years before the GWT judgment, this can only be for all unbelievers.

It seems clear to me that 3 verses teach that there will be a (singular) resurrection for the saved and a (singular) resurrection for the unsaved: Dan 12:2, Joh n 5:29 and Acts 24:15. Rev 20:5 clearly shows them being 1,000 years apart. We know that the Bema will not end in being cast into the LOF since the Bible teaches eternal security. 2 Cor 5:11 is "terror" in the KJV, but "fear for the Lord" in most others. That word refers to respect, not being afraid.

Seems Paul is trying to encourage believers to strive for rewards, rather than face the "terror (wrath) of the Lord", over the "bad things" that will be evaluated at the Bema. It seems real clear to me that the Bema and GWT judgment will be 1,000 years apart, based on Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Context from v.4 is the resurrection of believers at the Second Advent, even though it only mentions trib martyrs. 1 Cor 15:23 clearly says that "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected "when He comes".

Context explains the "casting of crowns". 9 - And whenever the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to the One seated on the throne who lives forever and ever, 10 - the twenty-four elders fall down before the One seated on the throne, and they worship Him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying: v.9 shows that "whenever" the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks, THEN the 24 elders fall down and cast their crown before the throne. So the "casting of crowns" is an on-going activity, not a one time event. That implies that they cast their crowns over and over, which will be "whenever" the living creatures give glory to the King.

Great question! Both 2 Cor 5:10 and Rev 20:11-15 mention a throne. And Jesus will reign on both of them. The difference is that the JSC will occur at the Second Advent, and the GWT judgment will occur at the end of the Millennial reign. Rev 20:5 So, same throne, same Judge, different attendees. 😁