Big Boy Stan Murf

It all depends on the tone of your typing If you were typing with a good attitude, then your quote can be considered valid.

And it's not near as bad as what the early church experienced. They witnessed their fellow believers being fed to the lions and being stoned and crucified. We got it easy in these modern time... most die by gun shots which kill people fairly quickly.

That's exactly what the OSAS crowd does! They have a select group of verses they use and ignore the whole counsel of God

That's like a doctor telling their patient to not exercise until they get in to better shape... so the patient tells the doctor, don't bill me until I pay you!

They "fell from grace" after having been born again... this is one of the proof texts that once saved always saved is false doctrine. It's funny to here all the word salad gymnastics the OSAS people throw out to try and convince others that these folks either did not fall from grace or where never saved in the first place. Pretty funny stuff for sure!

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Like I was saying... it's man's responsibility to decide to follow the Lord or not. The followers of John Calvin think God is FORCING people to get saved and so often we see these people (followers of John Calvin) living in sin!

That was before the new birth was available, and is not true for born again believers abiding in Christ right now because our righteousness is of the Lord. Isaiah 54:17 No weapon formed against you shall prosper, And every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me,” Says the LORD. Those that are walking after the flesh claiming to be Christians, their righteousness is filthy rags, or not legit as they say on the streets. What Jesus did on the Cross is only applicable to us as we abide in Christ... once we turn away and do sin, we are no long in right standing with the Lord Because the wages of sin is death which is separation from God. Which is why we need to confess and turn away from out sin to get back in right standing with the Lord. And sadly, there are those that claim "that's works!" when one turns way from sin which leads people to continue in sin and claim they're all good because it's faith alone and they don't have to turn from their sin. So, should we remove 1 John 3:7, 1 John 1:6, and Acts 26:20 from our bibles?

Yes, and it's man's responsibility to accept and walk in God's Word so it can change us. We see evidence all around us of people that reject God's Word and God's Word is not changing them at all.

God's going to force people to quit living in sin? There's no scriptural basis for this as we see through out scripture situations where God allows people to depart from Him. Solomon is a good example he turned away from the Lord and never came back and he's not mentioned in the faith hall of fame in the book of Hebrews.

But God's Word does not say anywhere that the penalty for sin is for God to whack you and it certainly doesn't say they would go to Heaven after God whacked 'em! God does not force anybody to live for Him.

OK, back to that again... one can live in sin and still go to Heaven! You can't have it both ways! If you tell people it's not possible to lose your salvation and that we all still sin... then this is a stumbling block to believers and makes people think it's no big deal to go out and do some sin... just don't let the pastor find out! The wages of sin is still death which is separation from the Lord. When one sins, if they don't confess and forsake their sin (admit it and quit it) then they will not go to Heaven. Ezekiel 18:20 (see Romans 8:13) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Ezekiel 18:26,27 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and dies in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

That's not true! There's all kinds of warnings in the NT written to Christians putting the responsibility to abide in Christ on them not on the Lord. God doesn't force anybody to walk with Him. The Lord is not making robots out of us where we have no free will and what you are talking about came from John Calvin and is not biblical. This make it where if some falls away then it was God's fault for not "keeping them"

Jesus said He came to bring division... between those that walk with the Lord and those that do not. you know, the tares and the wheat. Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: What God says come first before getting along with others that do not accept all that the Lord teaches in His Word. There are many among us that are tares and I'm not going to be getting along just to be getting along if it causes me to have to acknowledge things that opposes God's Word. Our relationship with the Lord always comes first before people. In fact, people wanting to be accepted and wanting to be liked and be popular is one of the ways the devil spreads false doctrine. I've talked to people that belong to churches that teach falsely and they know it and say they will keep supporting that church's false doctrine because that's where their friends go and they don't want to not be a part of the social club. In most churches, they tell you what you will believe and if you refuse to agree with them they will encourage you to attend someplace else. So, they are loving people more than they are the Lord! That does not end well.

No, actually the majority of them teach false doctrine! This is where all the pastors that teach false doctrine are getting it from! Seminaries and bible schools are ground zero for the great falling away as satan has infiltrated these institutions of "higher learning" long ago to sneak in all kinds of false doctrine. Actually, this got started long ago and is with us today: Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 2 Peter 2:1 There were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

No now that's false! Everyone does not sin. 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth You are confusing making mistakes such as forgetting something, dropping something on the floor, not getting something at the grocery store the wife wanted you to pick up... All these types of mistakes are in fact falling short of God's absolute perfection which Jesus walked in. These are a result of sin being in the world and Christians not being literally perfect yet. These are "sins" not unto death (separation from God) BUT, this does not mean that we all sin all the time as in willingly and knowingly lie, cheat, steal, sexual perversion, etc, etc and by saying it';s normal for Christians to sin all the time you this is a stumbling block to believers. It leads people to believe we can live in sin and still be saved because after all everyone is saying that Christians sin every day in thought word and deed. So, speak for yourself when you say that because it not true that all Christians are sinners and sin every day. Being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ means we are walking in the Spirit so we don't fulfill the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). God's Word says we can do all things thru Christ that strengthens us, but apparently some Christians can't even quit sinning because they keep hearing that Christians sin all the time! This is exactly WHY some believe on can live in sin and still be right before the Lord and this is causing many to stumble!

Exactly!

Even if they go back and live in sin! I know, I've heard it all before. Ezekiel 18:20 (see Romans 8:13) The soul that sins, it shall die. 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils *This is speaking of those that were once in the faith having become born again believers and later turned away from the Lord. Ezekiel 18:26,27 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and dies in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. John 15:5,6 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. James 5:19,20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. *By addressing this to “brethren” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God. Colossians 1:21-23 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven. *A condition is given here to be righteous before the Lord which is IF we continue in the faith and do not fall away. Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. *This indicates that these folks were born again and they had "fallen from grace" because they turn away from trusting in Jesus for their salvation. Jude 1:5,6 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. *If once saved always saved was true, then the Lord would not be speaking thru Jude to put us in remembrance about what happened to those that quit believing. *If angels having been created perfect turn away from the Lord and be separated from Him forever, we would experience the same. Thankfully, the Lord has provided a way for man to confess and forsake sin in order to receive mercy (see Proverbs 28:13), but if we continue in our sin we will not have mercy due having turned away from the Lord

OK, so if one gets saved and keeps living in sin... it's God's fault. If one is not walking in those good works, it's somehow a failure on God's part... I've heard this before and it's not biblical.

God's Word teaches sin separates us from Him. It's not my judgement, but the Lord's. Just because someone is repeating things taught in God's Word does not mean they are "judging" others. It's meant to help other see what God has already said.

That's all true! Now, try to explain to those that embrace once saved always saved who think turning away from our sin is optional... you know, a personal decision whether we wanna do that or not. They say if one turns away from their sin then they are trying to earn their salvation which makes them works based... so in their view if one is truly saved by grace they cannot just turn away from their sin. This kind of teaching is a stumbling block to believers!

That's taking carnal understanding of natural things and trying to make it apply to God's Word. Romans 8 says if we walk after the flesh you shall die... we know this is not physical death because we've all done this after getting born again and we did not fall down physically dead so this is spiritual death as in being separated from God. Further reading in Roms 8 tells us to be carnally minded IS death Gal 6 tells us if we sow tro the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption and that is because the wages of sin are still death which is separation from God. To say one is not separated from God when they sin is to say one can live in sin and still be right with the Lord and go to Heaven... which is satan's favorite deception! It's the same lie he got Adam and Eve with! God said if they disobeyed Him (sin) they would die - but the devil claimed they would NOT die. Those that claim it's true one can sin and NOT be separated from God, must knowledge that Jesus came to make what the devil said in the garden... true! I know Jesus did not come to make it where committing sin does not separate us from God as satan claimed was true in the garden, but apparently some believe this lie of the devil!

No, but we can quote Jesus' Words and point out that what He says is more important that the false teachings of John Calvin and the false teachings of the refomers who failed to simply go back to the plain reading of scripture. Jesus continued His teaching ministry thru the Apostles writings found in the New Testament so those words are His as well.

That's false doctrine! Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. ALL of Jesus' teachings are in play for Christians... it's being under deception to say otherwise according to Jesus.

Wrong. One cannot fall away from something they were never in in the first place. There's numerous warnings in the New Testament that say people turn away from the faith. Those that were never born again cannot fall away from the faith because they were never in the faith in the first place. The concept you are speaking of came from the false teachings of John Calvin and claims God does everything as though man is a robot Sure, Jesus did the work to pay for salvation for ALL men... but it's each individual's responsibility to answer the call, turn from their sin, and abide in Christ which of course the Lord helps us with as we go forward with Him. Jesus said those that don't believe will be damned... you're not suggesting Jesus doesn't know that it's God's fault they didn't believe because God failed to "elect" than are ya?

That's funny. Thanks for the chuckle! Yeah, so if one does not enter in to God's Kingdom that means they go to hell.