Progressive Truth

Anne2, I believe you are sincerely mistaken in regard to the above statement. I understand Bible history reveals that Israel did not reform during the seventy weeks granted to them. Thus, God abandoned Plan A (Biological Israel) and Plan B was implemented. Plan B is based on a new covenant (Gal 3:28,29) and the books of Daniel and Revelation contain prophecies and promises for Plan B. Merging Plan A prophecies with Plan B prophecies produces insurmountable confusion because both plans are separate and distinct. If you are willing to consider this for the time it would take you to read my post on "Babylon", I will put up my post, for only then would it make any sense. What say you?

Would you share what you believe the seals have too do with, and what we can expect when the first one does open? Too, if you will, what do you think was the forth kingdom and the "little horn" that came out of it?

Joe, you apparently are not aware of a fundamental principal God used in giving us apocalyptic prophecy, “repetition and enlargement.” Meaning that previous prophecies are often repeated but with different symbols to provide us with expanded insights. In my earlier post I demonstrated that the premise of you interpretation is invalid because it is based on an invalid hermeneutic. I used Dan, 2 prophecy which laid out many kingdoms starting with Babylon. Metals were used starting with gold representing Babylon followed by silver, representing Medo- Persia and so forth. By using metals of lesser value God was revealing that as kingdoms followed kingdoms, their knowledge of God would become less and less. In Dan. 7, the same progression of kingdoms is laid out, using the symbols of beast. The first beast (Babylon) looked like a Lion with wings of an eagle, symbolizes strength with swiftness. With the wings plucked it was made to stand on its feet. The king paid no attention to God, by way of Daniel, and became arrogant and self -sufficient. However, in time the king recognized the sovereign authority of God. His grandson did not, and God took down the Kingdom. The second beast (Med-Persia) looked like a bear, one shoulder higher that the other. This symbolism indicated by way of historical facts that the Persians would ascend higher than the Medes. When this beast emerged from the sea it had three ribs between its teeth. These ribs again by way of historical fact represent Lydia, Egypt, and Babylon resisting the bear’s quest for dominion, naturally. These examples are just a few of how the principal of repetition and enlargement are too increase our understanding of those original literal kingdoms, not to be misunderstood as different kingdoms, and because added symbolism is given, greater insights of each kingdom can be known. In your interpretation you are comparing the teaching of Jesus and others which are more literal, then the highly symbolic prophecy of Rev. 19. To show that Rev. 19, is more symbolic note in vs. 12, “His eyes are like blazing fire.” Vs.15, “Coming out of His mouth a sharp sword. Certainly you don’t believe theses is literal. Vs 17, the birds are invited to eat the flesh of kings, generals and mighty horses. I’m not denying this battle, and like you believe, Jesus most likely will come seated on His thrown. And as He draws closer to earth the wicked will try to destroy Christ and his angles, but not on horse back but rather using missiles and rockets. My points here is most likely you don’t believe everything in this prophecy is literal, so why Christ and his army coming on literal horses? Consider this last point, which will take some explaining but It is important that you understand the bigger picture. The Father wrote the Book of Life before anything was created because only He has foreknowledge. In it is recorded the lives of all who are given life. Thus the name, “book of Life.” Those who would refuse salvation were crossed out, but their lives story and choices remain as a record. Those choosing salvation are not crossed out and their life story and choices remain on record also. The book was sealed with seven seals and the last seal will be opened during the GWTJ, end of the thousand years, Nobody is judged using the book, of life, but instead out of the books. (of deeds, Rev. 20:12) The reason the Father wrote the book of life and sealed it up until after the GWTJ is to prove that even though He has foreknowledge, He never uses it to control His creation. Everyones freedom to chose will never be violated. According to Rev. 4&5, and Dan. 7, a heavenly court room event took place in 1798. At that moment in time a search of the universe by angles was made and only Jesus met the qualifications the Father required for someone to take the book of Life and open it’s seals. The seven seals are seven campaigns similar to our political campaigns today. To make us aware of the candidate and their plains. Thus the Father designed that as each seal is opened a greater revelation of Jesus comes into focus, to reveal that Jesus is a deity just like Him and is worthy of our worship, which most of mankind does not realize. The first was opened in 1798, at the end of the 1260 years of the little horn power (papacy) of Daniel 7, which God had allotted it to war against the saints (Rev.7:23-26) This period of time is referred by historians as the “Dark Ages.” A time when the papacy controlled both civil and religious power over Western Europe. It had power over the Kings. And millions of Christians were martyred for taking a stance against the corruption of the church. During this time the Holy Spirit was moving on the hearts and minds of the Protestants reformers to restore the gospel in its original form, and purify the church. Too, during this courtroom event in heaven the Father recused Himself from control of the universe and placed Jesus on the thrown because the Father has predetermined that Jesus, acting as judge/High priest during the Judgement of the dead, (since He has experienced our struggles) to determine who shall make up His kingdom, when He returns to gather up the saints at His return. With this information in mind lets now consider the opening of the first seal. It could be summed up it four words, “The salvation of Jesus.” After the power of the papacy was wounded in 1798, the Holy Spirit put a compelling desire within Protestants to broadcast salvation through faith in Christ around the world. When it comes to revealing all that Jesus Christ is, the doctrine of salvation through faith in Christ (justification and sanctification) is the first and greatest teaching of Christ. The bow carried in the rider’s hand is not a weapon of war as artists commonly portray it. The Greek word toxon indicates the bow is made of fabric which indicates the bow carried in the rider’s hand is a winner’s ribbon. This bow indicates the victory that is given to everyone who abides in Christ. Too, and this is my whole point of this spiel on the seals. Note very carefully that the white horse in this prophecy symbolizes strength, and victory, just as conquering kings rode on white horses. Considering this, would in not be appropriate that God would use this same symbolism in Rev. 19, to reveal the results of this campaign and the return of a victorious Jesus riding a white horse to destroy His enemies and claim His victorious saints?

Joe, you go on to say, "As Scripture will show, these two events have nothing in common. Scripture will interpret Scripture by using shared words or shared events between two passages to show that the two things are the same. There are no shared words or symbols between the events in Matt 24 and Rev 19. If the two events were the same.... Matt 24 and Rev 19.... there would be similar symbols. But there is nothing about the two accounts that are similar. They are completely and utterly different." If this were a valid hermeneutic, then there can be not exception too it. But such is not the case. In Daniel chapter two God revealed to the King of Babylon a sequence of kingdoms from his to God’s kingdom by means of a great image. Head of gold, breast and arms as silver, thighs of brass, legs of iron, feet part iron and clay, and ten toes. In Dan. 7, Daniel receives a vision in which he sees four different beast coming up out of the sea. The forth which had ten horns, and another little horn appears out of them. Based on your hermeneutic, one would conclude that these two visions are not referring to the same kingdoms because the symbols are not the same, nor does the first vision reveal the little horn coming out of the ten horns of the forth kingdom. So, are you willing to say here, on this forum, based on your hermeneutic, that these two visions are not speaking of the same kingdoms? Or will you humbly confess that you were using a invalid hermeneutic to arrive at your interpretation, therefore, it to is invalid as well? The flowing portion of your post I do agree with: “You must always be willing to truly consider evidence that contradicts your beliefs, and admit the possibility that you may be wrong. Intelligence isn't knowing everything, it's the ability to challenge everything you know.”

Do you experience this quite often ?

Dennis, I can answer your question, but first would like to know what you perceive the condition the world will be in at the time the MOB is introduced?

How can the Holy Spirit lead anyone with a closed mind?

Michael, your statement would have more credibility if you were to give a text in support. However, I am familiar with the texts of which you are referring, others may not. I assume you are referring to (Rev. 19:19-21, or 20:1-10). It is always better to know the beginning and ending point of each prophecy to get a broader perspective of a few texts within it. This prophecy actually begins in (Rev. 19:11, and ends at 20:10) All events are given in their chronological order by God, the author of all prophecy. I would encourage you to read it through start to finish a couple of times. If you will do this the following will make more sense of this prophecy. I hope we can agree (Rev.19:11-21) are dealing the the return of Christ. Now we will pay attention to vs. 20. It states; "But the beast[beast out of the sea] and with it the false prophet [beast out of the earth] who had performed the signs on its behalf. [first beast] with these signs he [false prophet] had deluded those who had received the mark...The two of them [beast from the sea, and false prophet] were thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. [ ] commentary added In Rev. 19:20 the false prophet is introduced within this prophecy. Where did he come from? The origin of the two beast of Rev. 13 are given, 1st out of the sea, 2nd out of the earth, nothing on the false prophet. I'm going to suggest to you that God the author of prophecy uses a method know as expansion and enlargement when certain events or symbols within different prophecies are repeated in others. By employing this method God is giving us more details about that event or symbol. In the case of the second beast of Rev. 13, coming out of the earth, having two horns like a lamb, speaking like a dragon. in Rev. 19, this same beast is referred to as a False prophet. Why, because during the tribulation God will have 144,000servant/prophets proclaiming the gospel world wide. And the 2nd beast who speaks like a dragon will contradict the testimony of God's prophets with outrageous blasphemy and awesome miracles. Consider again these descriptives (Rev. 13:11-14) "It exercised all the authority of the first beast...and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast...And it performed great signs even causing fire down from heaven...Because of the signs it was given power to perform [by God] on behalf of the first beast it deceived the inhabitants of earth. Now compare the red texts in both the second paragraph above and the one just above. They confirm that the 2nd beast of Rev. 13, is the False prophet of Rev. 19, and doing so gives more detail on the activities of the second beast as the tribulation moves on in time. The prophecy continues (Rev. 20:1-10) and states:" And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss [spirit realm] and holding...a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him a thousand years...to keep him from deceiving the nations until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be set free for a short while....When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released... and deceive the nations [the resurrected wicked]... to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore...and surrounded the camp of God's people [New Jerusalem] but fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil... was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and false prophet had been thrown. They [Satan and wicked] will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.[until restitution has been paid and they shall turn to ashes and the fire will go out, and God will create a new earth, which the saints shall inherit.] Michael this prophecy informs us that the two beast of Rev. 13, (1st beast, the second beast which goes by two other names, false prophet and the devil, are one in the same) are throw into a lake of fire at the return of Christ, and at the end of the thousand years the second beast/false prophet/devil is released for a short season and thrown again into the lake of fire for the last time.

Rev. 13, speaks of two beast. One from the sea and the other from the earth. Rev. 12:7-9 inform us the dragon/serpent/devil/Satan was earlier cast into/to/down to the earth.[spirit realm] Verse 17 informs us this dragon would latter wage war against the remnant of the woman [church]. This prophecy beginning in Rev 12:6 continues in chronological order through 14:5. In chapter 13, we lean that the dragon/Satan gives his power to the first beast,[while still in the spirit real] which wars against God's people for 42 months and to conquer them. Rev., 13:11 informs us that latter a second beast comes up out of the earth, looking like the lamb [Christ] but spoke like a dragon [because it is Satan coming out of the spirit realm to dwell upon the earth. The 5th trumpet reveals Satan being released by God from the abyss/spirit realm]. Verse 14-15, informs us that this beast[Satan] was given power [by God] to perform signs even calling fire down from heaven. He [Satan] orders an image be made to the first beast, and those not worshiping this image to be killed. To show homage to this second beast/Satan, one must receive his mark or the number of his name. Of course the saints having a strong faith will refuse to take his mark to buy the means to survive, thus millions of saints will be killed, this is how satan conquers the saints. The "mark" is called the mark of the beast, because within this prophecy it is the second beast from the earth that sets it up, but within this prophecy we were informed that the dragon gave the first beast it's power and the second beast spoke like the dragon. So with that bid of info along with the 5th trumpet one can conclude the second beast is Satan.

Perhaps you like Diaste haven't taken the time to view the video. I encourage you too do so, as I know the answers to my questions will be given in a deeper perspective than what you think.

If your soul purpose on this forum is just to promote your point of view, then your statement makes perfect sense. However, if it is too consider other perspectives as well, with the possibility of a better understanding of prophecy I would encourage you to take the 18 min., (which is likely less time than it took you too post this response) too view the video.

Do you understand the reason for the tribulation? Do you know how long it will last? Do you know who will take the gospel into all the world? Do you understand the reason for the 7 trumpets? Do you know that Satan will appear on the earth? Do you know why God allows him to appear on earth? Do you understand why Satan implements his mark. The answers to all these questions are revealed in an 18 minute vide0.Just go to YouTube and enter, Are You Ready For Coming Events?

Consider this: "The coming of the Lord" is not a one day event. it is a series of events during the span of the tribulation that warns people of Christ coming and encourages them to except His offer of salvation in its closing days. For the uninformed it (tribulation) will come as a thief in the night. I think the word "coincident" was meant to be "connected." Prophecy does not support that the 5th trumpet and 1st vial being connected or have opened for the reasons given with regard to the censor being thrown down in my previous post. Too, for the same reason the the tribulation has not begun the mark is still a future event. Yes, the events in the seals, trumpets, and vials are given in their chronological order, and I believe the 1st seal opened in 1798, the second shortly after, and the third in 1844. The forth is the next to open, and when it does the tribulation will begin. The one forth of the earth that will be killed when it opens is the result of the literal events given in the first four trumpets, that happen during the first of the tribulation. This will certainly arrest the attention of mankind when the earth is put into survival mode to consider the gospel. I believe you like many expositors of centuries past believe the seals, trumpets, and vials have all started about 100 A.D. and have opened sequentially from that time and will continue until Christ return. This is a incorrect interpretation. You mention, "layers of a wedding cake." Have you been reading Larry Wilsons material?

I disagree. All of mankind did not get the heads up at the same time. Do you think the people who have been given a strong delusion have a heads up? The reprobate minded are the outer court, do not measure them. They are not going to get a "heads up" until the day the flood comes and takes them all away. Do you think that the 6th Trumpet and remaining Vials can be completed over a span of 40 days? The no flesh saved alive days? "I disagree. All of mankind did not get the heads up at the same time. Do you think the people who have been given a strong delusion have a heads up?" No, the global heads up comment I made had to do with, if you recall, a future event, the throwing down of the censor, of (Rev. 8:2-5) It will be global, it marks the beginning of the tribulation, when the living will be forced by circumstances to either worship Christ or the Lamb like beast/Satan which comes out of the earth (Rev. 13:11) The time frame of the tribulation will be the same for all. Therefore, everyone will get a heads up on the very first day, when the censer in heaven is cast down the the global events in vs. 5 literally happen here on earth. When it does it will surely be a headline story on nightly news, since such events have never happened on a global scale. This is proof that the trumpets are yet future. Prophecy is the more sure word of God. No, the 6th, 7th trumpet and vials will take longer that 4o days. Why do you ask?

your statement here is in response too this statement of mine: "However, between the seventh trumpet, and the return of Christ in which He gathers up His saints and takes them to heaven, we have the seven bowl judgements of Rev. 16. I understand the third angles message of (Rev. 14:9-11) is a warning to all living at that time, and their fate if they should receive the devils mark. They shall receive the full wrath of God as mentioned in the seven bowl judgements." In your response you say, "I see in the text..." What texts are you referring too? So this text shows the saints being gathered before wrath, and again immediately after Christ returns. You believe in two gatherings of the saints? So in response to my question you bring up, "one unforgivable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." Which means if one continually refuses to listen to the spirit, then you would not be convicted they have committed a sin, any sin. Therefore, one would not seek God for forgiveness. In the case of the mark, and the time of its enforcement (tribulation) the latter rain of the Holy Spirit will be working through the 144,000 servant/prophets of God to share the gospel throughout the entire world. The three angles messages are given during this time, and the third message is a direct message to avoid taking the mark. Those who do will have rejected the Holy Spirits warning, thus committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by disobeying the warning and taking the mark. So as you say, "those who take the mark have made an irredeemable choice."

Gustave, I can't speak to the issue of the Trinity, for I find it hard to imagine an Adventist not believing that Jesus is deity, however, closing events is something I can speak to. In my situation I haven't been able to just keep what I believe is the correct interpretation of apocalyptic prophecy to myself, but rather feel it is my obligation to share what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me by of studying material out side of our own publications. I often have done this by presenting these materials to pastors and laity both.. in various churches as I have moved around the country in the past forty years. The response is either silence, which conveys to me the leadership or laity choses not to consider anything being different because they assume it to be wrong. The other response is to issue me an ultimatum too desist passing out books promoting any interpretation that is different than what we have sanctioned since the Great Controversy was written by E.G. White in 1888. The issue here is, If we were to update out interpretation we would have to admit that Mrs.White was wrong in claiming that many of the prophecies were fulfilled in the past, which they were not. We are not willing to admit that prophets do make mistakes if they speak and reason outside of inspiration. Here in lies the issue from my perspective. We like those anticipating the pre-trib rapture, were all in the same boat. So when closing events materialize differently than what we assume, our faith will be shattered just like it was during the "Great Disappointment" of 1844. Truth is progressive and additive, but religions seldom move from their foundational teachings. This is a historical fact. The good news is prophecy reveals God will leap frog all religions and select 144,000 servant/prophets to carry the gospel to the whole world, then the end will come, right on time. https://clubadventist.com/forums/uploads/reactions/react_like.png Quote Reply to this topic... Go to topic listing Next unread topic If you find some value to this community, please help out with a few dollars per month. https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif Unread Content Mark site read Home Top 5 busiest forums on the Adventist forum Theological Townhall The Papacy Sho

Charlie, I too feel inspired to share progressive truth. I'll share a post I just posted on an Adventist forum. Gustave, I can't speak to the issue of the Trinity, for I find it hard to imagine an Adventist not believing that Jesus is deity, however, closing events is something I can speak to. In my situation I haven't been able to just keep what I believe is the correct interpretation of apocalyptic prophecy to myself, but rather feel it is my obligation to share what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me by of studying material out side of our own publications. I often have done this by presenting these materials to pastors and laity both.. in various churches as I have moved around the country in the past forty years. The response is either silence, which conveys to me the leadership or laity choses not to consider anything being different because they assume it to be wrong. The other response is to issue me an ultimatum too desist passing out books promoting any interpretation that is different than what we have sanctioned since the Great Controversy was written by E.G. White in 1888. The issue here is, If we were to update out interpretation we would have to admit that Mrs.White was wrong in claiming that many of the prophecies were fulfilled in the past, which they were not. We are not willing to admit that prophets do make mistakes if they speak and reason outside of inspiration. Here in lies the issue from my perspective. We like those anticipating the pre-trib rapture, were all in the same boat. So when closing events materialize differently than what we assume, our faith will be shattered just like it was during the "Great Disappointment" of 1844. Truth is progressive and additive, but religions seldom move from their foundational teachings. This is a historical fact. The good news is prophecy reveals God will leap frog all religions and select 144,000 servant/prophets to carry the gospel to the whole world, then the end will come, right on time. https://clubadventist.com/forums/uploads/reactions/react_like.png Quote Reply to this topic... Go to topic listing Next unread topic If you find some value to this community, please help out with a few dollars per month. https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif Unread Content Mark site read Home Top 5 busiest forums on the Adventist forum Theological Townhall The Papacy Sho

What are you talking about? If it is contrary to Adventists teaching how are you able to leave it inside of SDA churches?

Would have to disagree with your reasoning here. First the third person of the God head the Holy Spirit is invisible and can be all places at once, and can read our thoughts. He is the link between us and Jesus in heaven. He is always willing to abide with us if we desire to abide with Him. Jesus bids us to, come to him, and whosoever will may come. You make it sound like we must wait on God to come to us. By way of your book offer, I assume your SDA. Your teaching on this subject is not in line with what we teach. (??)

Ok, I'll continue conversation with you under certain conditions. They are: Be respectful, even if you don't agree with my views, which exemplifies the spirit of christ. Answer all questions put to you, before you go off on something else. Be clear in your use of supporting texts. (Should you agree with these conditions, then I have a few question for you that will help me to better understand you.) 1. Is your understanding of Revelation something you were taught growing up? 2. Or, is it your private interpretation? 3. Are you aware of any of the "natural Laws" God built into His prophecies? 4. What are the hermeneutics you consider that must be followed to interpret apocalyptic prophecy correctly?

I agree with you it takes two elements to make up the soul, however, Gen. 2:7 says, that God breathed into his nostrils "the breath of life." and man became a living soul. It did not say the Holy Spirit. Too, you don't seem to realize that when the two elements/parts are separated then the soul must cease to exist, the body returns to dust/or grave and the breath of life returns to our creator. This is the first death/sleep, and applies to all of mankind, lost or saved. The soul does not go to heaven, purgatory, or hell, it simply ceases to exist until God unites the two elements in either the first or second resurrection. This understanding does away with the lie that Satan told Eve," surely you will not die." It also does away with the belief that God calls your young child or spouse, mother or dad, to be with Him in heaven while you suffer through your grief and life without them. Too, based on your reasoning then, when each individual chooses to reject the Holy Spirit influence as the unrighteous do, then that would cause their first death. Have you ever heard of anyone dying because they rejected the Holy Spirit? First Adam and Eve should have been executed by God the day they sinned, because God had told them, in the day you eat of the tree of good and evil, you shall surely die. The reason they were not is because Jesus stepped in to stay their execution by excepting the terms and conditions of the plan of Salvation the Father had in place before any life was created, because the Father foreknew of Adams fall. It was on that day that Jesus became the Son of God the Father, which means He would be submissive to all the requirements in the plan of salvation to save man. Therefore, they were spared execution. However, God couldn't allow them too continue living in the garden either, because of their now fallen natures, they would have access to the tree of life, and life forever. So God sent them out of the garden and away from the tree of life, and stationed angles with flaming swords to guard its entrance. They both remained living souls, as they still possessed the same two elements that made them into living souls in first place, and died the first death of old age, which is the consequences of sin. Yes one can say they are living beings as that's what a living soul is, however, they did not become living beings simply because you assume they turned away from the Holy Spirit. They continued in communion with God by way of the Holy Spirit and grew to trust God completely and are still sleeping in death peacefully awaiting Jesus call to arise.

Yes we all make mistakes. But please go back to my previous post, "22 hrs. ago" and answer my questions there. This will help me to better understand your mind set, if that's what you want.

Here again you are making a claim, without any support whatsoever. It appears you just like to argue, rather than to improve your knowledge of closing events, which is not the spirit of Christ. This ends any further discussion.

Yes, well aware of that. But you used Rev. 1&3, and 4:1 to support the rapture of the church. One should not just claim such and such texts support this or that, but you must show evidence in support of your claim, if you desire credibility. Is your understanding of Revelation something you were taught growing up? Is it what your religion teaches? Is it your private interpretation? Are you aware of any of the "natural Laws" God built into His prophecies? Would you be interested in increasing your knowledge on apocalyptic prophecy based on God's "natural laws?"

Hi enooby57, appreciate your response. I begin with my paraphrase of Rev. 1:19: "Write [John] the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are [pertaining to the seven churches which existed in Johns day] and the things which shall be hereafter [the future events revealed in these prophetic visions] Rev. 4,5 speaks of an event well after the time of the seven churches in chapters 1-3. It is often referred to as the "heavenly courtroom event" which both Dan. 7:9,10 and Rev. 4 & 5 offer insights. It takes place according to further details in Dan. 7, at the end of the 1260 years (1798) of the persecution of the saints by the little horn/papacy. Together these two prophecies reveal that Jesus was found worth in 1798 to receive the Book of Life, and to begin opening its seals, of chapter 6. There is no mention of the church/saints being raptured/gathered up in these texts. So between 1798 the setting of the "heavenly courtroom event," and the time in (Rev. 19:1-6) there are many events you are overlooking. (Rev. 18:1 -19:10) is but one of many prophecies, each having a starting and ending point in time, all events given by God in their chronological order. It has to do with the destruction of Babylon the Great. Note in vs. (4) a voice comes from heaven saying: "come out of her, my people so that you will not share in her sins, or receive her plagues[seven last bowls/vials] In verse (20) "rejoice over her you heavens! Rejoice, you people of God, apostles and prophets! For God has judged her with the judgement she imposed on you. It should be clear to you that God's people/church/prophets will be here on earth during the same time that Babylon the Great is active. Now let me highlight the prophets. In Revelation 7:3, the 144,000 are called God’s “servants.” In Revelation 10:7, the 144,000 are identified as “servants the prophets.” In Revelation 11:12, God will resurrect the 144,000 and take them to Heaven at the seventh trumpet near the end of the Great Tribulation, and they become the first fruits of the coming harvest of all saints at His second coming. Therefore, the great multitude in Revelation 19:6 are the 144,000, not the "innumerable multitude" seen standing around the throne after the Second Coming in Revelation 7:9. This distinction can be determined by the chronological timing in Revelation 19:5. The scene in Revelation 19:5 occurs before the Second Coming. Notice the directive given to the great multitude. “Then a voice came from the throne, saying: ‘Praise our God, all you his [144,000] servants, you who fear him, both small and great." So this great multitude is the 144,000, and they have every right to celebrate, for they were God's servants/prophets who carried the gospel throughout the world during the tribulation and most will died a martyrs death. How you respond to this post will demonstrate the spirit within you, may it be Christ like. Thank you.