Katie Rose Müller

@farouk Everyone has to make their own judgments on a manner, but my decisions certainly aren't based off what 75% of the population think or believe.

If you wouldn't take spray paint and go to the Temple in Jerusalem and graffiti it, why would make marks on your body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit? I hate tattoos and faith-based ones seem even more vile to me because it's a slap in the face to God to take His temple, mar it, but claim you're doing it for Him. I have rather strong feelings about this one and would probably offend others, so . . . to put succinctly, I view this topic negatively and that's how I will conclude my post.

@farouk I don't find this helpful; can you explain how it's helpful regarding my original post? How does this correlate to what is sorrowful: being in the world, conception, or childbirth.

But I have seen even animals in hard labor; why would God punish female animals as well when this is against women, so Eve didn't impart this to cattle or cats or anything else according to the law of kinds. I'm still not convinced of the traditional view; I'd like for the grammar to be explained. Sorrow in conception would happen during sexual intercourse, not the childbirth. And there's little sorrow in conception.

“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in pain you shall bring forth children" - Genesis 3:16 As I read that I wondered: Is conception tied to sorrow or is conception merely multiplied? Example: I will greatly multiply your sorrow [but] I will multiply your conception In pain you shall bring forth children Would the multiplication of conception be redemptive to the sorrow? Because conception and bringing forth children are two separate acts. One is pregnancy; one is full-term labor. John 16:21-22 A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world. So, the multiplication of children would be a joyful thing, even if labor is awful. See, I'm just not convinced at the traditional idea that Eve's punishment was painful labor and that all women suffer hard labor pains because of her. The more I think about, this view point makes God look like a sadist, which we all know He isn't. I don't see how a woman can not have labor pains because, well. . .biology. A lot of contractions and dilations are going on to give birth to an 8 or 9lb baby. I also believe the fall was necessary or at least foreseen, and so no matter what, sin or no sin, childbirth would have been and will continue to be painful. God states "I" claiming He will do a specific thing: "I will multiply your sorrow"; "I will multiple your conception"; but I does not seem to be connected to painful labor: this reads more like a statement. It doesn't read, "I will give you painful labor" it reads more like a heads up, childbirth is going to hurt. Additionally, though I didn't quote it I is not connected with man ruling over woman: this also reads like a statement. Seems to me that painful childbirth and the male-female hierarchy were already formerly established and are natural law, not punishments. Is the only real punishment (or consequence) here the fact that Eve now has multiplied sorrow? John 16:22 Therefore you now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you. Jesus Christ is the 2nd Adam and the Church is, by implication therefore, the 2nd Eve. Before Christ's crucifixion He tells His disciples (the first-fruits of the church) that they have sorrow, and why, because Christ was departing the world to go to the Father. Likewise we see, not so much God departing Eve, but Eve departing God and being cast from Eden. A literary-poetic juxtaposition, so to speak. Either way, Eve was without God in the world, and the Church is waiting for Christ to return and because He is not in the world and we are not Eden, we have sorrow. So if God actively multiplied sorrow, the only thing God actively did in Genesis 3 was cast them from Eden and cut them off from God. You now have sorrow, BUT I will see you again God further then multiples Eve's conception: multiplying her ability to bear children and it is by Woman that Christ would come. Eve was cast from Eden, but through childbearing and the promise of a savior, God is saying, You will see me again. So, is the only punishment the multiplication of sorrow by being in the world and not a multiplication of sorrow by conception; childbirth; or martial hierarchy, just simply, not being in Eden. (And yes, I'm aware that by not being in Eden were are subjected to high-risk pregnancies, but death by childbearing doesn't seems like any more of a curse then death by disease, persecution, etc. which are not gender discriminatory.)

I never took to C.S. Lewis either. Supposedly Tolkien's work had Christian elements too, but it was subconscious at first and then upon rewrites, more consciously put forth (or so I read)

This sounds like the behavior of the Gnostics and to say God willing you will get food somehow, sounds like tempting God. To go off into a forest to be closer to God and then test Him to bring you food, is wrong. Be careful of this type of fanaticism.

I never personally cared for Harry Potter. I've seen like 5ish of the movies, but I couldn't sit through the 1st, 4th or 5th. The Prisoner of Azkaban was pretty good with the time travel but beyond that, I didn't like the series. My sister read the books as well as my dad and they thought the writing was poor as the story progressed. As far as whether they should be read by children, it seems like Harry Potter has become more of a cultural thing now and children will inevitably pick up the books if they're curious enough. Guiding them prior or during their reading of it is what's important. Everyone has free will and I don't believe in micromanaging people, especially children, but bringing awareness to what God says about witchcraft and witches will help them make decisions on whether to read the book or not or read it with discernment. God calls people at different times or not at all. If a child isn't called, forcing and micromanaging them will just push them further away from God. If a child is going to rebel they will do it over something their parents make a big deal about: look at kids who turn 21 and can finally drink and go head-over-heels drunk, versus parents who let kids take a sip of wine here or there, those kids, see that alcohol is no big deal. Would I read Harry Potter to my kids? No. But that's because I just don't like the story in general. If they begged me to read it to them because all their friends are reading it in the book-club, then yeah, I would, but I'd be making some pretty big critiques all the way through.

I didn't pay shipping on anything I order, and depending on what you're ordering, viewing it in person isn't an issue: clothing, bedding things like that are preferable for in store purchases, but cat toys and books are different. Just thought I'd have a nice conversation, don't know why you have to be negative and cynical.

Yeah, well, there is something called online shopping.

Anyone do Black Friday Shopping? Get any good deals? I got - ESV Hardcover, Spiral Bound Journaling Bible - MacArthur Bible Commentary (Single Volume) - McGee Bible Commentary 6 Vol. - Moody Bible Commentary (Single Volume) - Warren Wiersbe Bible Commentary 6 Vol. - Dead Sea Scroll Translation - Trees and Kings by the Bulletin for Biblical Research - Kitty Toys: squeak mouse; chirping bird; 10 pack play mice - Cat Condo - Washi Tape - Stickers - Transparent Sticky Notes I got to say, I am thrilled over the ESV journaling Bible. Has anyone ordered from the Daily Grace Co they have a black Friday sale, and I'd like to get some of their workbooks, but I'm on the fence about it. They tend to have deals a lot so I'm going to sit this sale out, but I'm looking at this product in particular. Anyone have this? If so, what's your opinion of it?

My Dad and I were actually discussing the other day, that from what we can tell about the resurrection of the dead, is that God gives people as much time as they need to repent and change into His spiritual likeness. Isaiah 65:20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. This seems to imply that in the resurrection, someone who is 100 years old is still considered a child. Looks like mankind will live a long time: Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. There are trees known to be over 1000 years old. So don't beat yourself up; or bring yourself down. God knows how hard it is for some people to overcome, especially if they're dealing with any form of mental illness, esp. if that mental illness has been brought on by trauma. As long as you're sincere that you want to walk with God, but are struggling, God's not going to write you off. He is going to give you time. Unlike what some Christians try to portray, now is not the only day of salvation. The resurrection is not an immediate judgement of eternal life or hellfire; judgement looks like it'll be at least 100 years, and up to even 1000. Use whatever avenues you need to, to get the help you need: medication, therapy just don't give up or let go. God has given us our whole lives to overcome, and may gives us another life in the resurrection to pick up where we left off. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. As long as you don't give up, neither will He. Being a Christian and overcoming the world is a hard thing. Perhaps also seek spiritual counsel, maybe there is a lot of demonic activity bringing you down? I was undergoing OCD/Intrusive thoughts as well and it took about 2 years to settle it out, but I know demons were antagonizing me at the same time because they perceived my weakness. So I had to tackle that issue as well. Have you also had a physical check-up, I was dealing with chronic anemia and I think the anemia, iron infusions and just stress of the illness was also exacerbating my symptoms. Maybe make sure that you don't have an underlying physical problem that's causing you to struggle. God knows we're physical and if a piece of us is worn down, it affects the whole system. Ask God to lead you to the right diagnoses; right medication; right therapy; the right tools to help you. He won't ignore you if you're sincere about the help, as I know you are sincere because if you weren't you wouldn't be here posting. You'll get through this. I'll be praying for you. And to add: when I was having it really hard, I actually wrote affirmations on myself (on my thigh) it was a hidden place that no one could see but me, but every time I saw it, I reminded myself that if we ask anything in His name He will do it. Maybe write an affirmation for yourself and read it every day, multiple times a day?

Nothing wrong with seeking help. I hope the medication and therapy helps! Perhaps God is pointing you in that direction?

I've got like 10+ different commentaries that are multi volume and I can confirm I haven't read them all cover to cover. That's over 100 books and I got them all starting March of this year. Lol. But I'm working on it hahaha

I think ours cost about $45 for 6 people. We're hosting ours tomorrow, but we're having Turkey sandwiches. 3, 16 inch Sub Rolls with buttered garlic, toasted, then mayo, oil, lettuce, tomato, onion, cheese, turkey and Lebanon Bologna. We'll get 12 Servings total, so that's like $3.75 per serving. We didn't feel like doing a whole big meal this year; we just didn't have the energy, but turkey subs is easy. My brother invited us to his place for Thanksgiving, but I didn't want to go anywhere this year.