Luther

Ok. That's what I've always heard. But what does it mean now? There's nothing left. Everything's destroyed.

It sure doesn't look like that now.

You asked: " Do you believe what scripture tells us about God giving that Land to Abraham’s progeny? " No. It's no longer about physical land. It hasn't been for 3,000 years. God's Old Testament promises of an eternal land inheritance is for all believers in Christ. That's what the scriptures teach and they are confirmed with the New Testament.

"But you do well to question and research for yourself praying always to God the Father, Son, Holy Spirit for His TRUTH and understanding to come forth in all matters." Amen. I would hope that in this forum you would be respected for what you believe and whatever experiences you went through. If you will allow me to ask: I don't understand about your grandfather being taken to a Soviet gulag. Was he Russian? Was it the Soviet army that took him? I know for a fact that hundreds of thousands of Russians and Poles died in those gulags. You Said: "All parents who refused to sign the papers necessary for the children to join Hitler youth were severely beaten." I have a general idea about the Hitler youth group. I only heard positive things about it. This is actually the first time I'm hearing something like what you're saying. There were over 6 million members. It sounds like almost every boy and girl was in Hitler youth. I saw footage of the massive rallies they had. There had to be over a million in attendance.

You said: " Anyone denying fact after fact about the Holocaust in an effort to minimize the atrocity is either looking to stir things up or.... " Now here's the problem I have. The assumption is made that if someone looks further into this event it's for hurtful or negative purposes. There are those out there that simply want to get a better understanding of the facts and figures, and because of that they are targeted or labeled. " Fact after fact" is exactly what we should be looking at. Do you wish to share some facts?

And like I said before over and over, you can believe that Ezekiel 40 has something to do with revelation 20. But many people don't as well. And what we have on our side is the fact that there's no mention of a literal thousand year period in Ezekiel 40. And there are some of us who understand the spiritual principles of the book of Revelation. And when you compare scripture with scripture, it's very clear that there is no millennial reign of Christ on this current Earth.

And the reality of it is, if they never occupied the land, hundreds of thousandsof lives would have been be spared. Like we know without having to refute this, Palestine historically has been living in harmony for many hundreds of years. Whatever skirmishes they had is nothing in comparison with what they've had to endure the last 80 years. The reason why I don't fall in line with everyone else's view is because I Don't believe that God wanted them to be a nation again because I do not read that in the Bible. So when I look at all these innocent people dying, I know that it has nothing to do with God's blessing.

You have to remember the beginning how all this started. Palestine had been a land of peace and harmony to a high degree among different people and their religions for many centuries. In the early 20th century that started to change. The Nakba did not start or end in 1948 (Published On 23 May 2017 Aljazeera) "Every year on May 15, Palestinians around the world, numbering about 12.4 million, mark the Nakba, or “catastrophe”, referring to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the near-total destruction of Palestinian society in 1948. The Palestinian experience of dispossession and loss of a homeland is 69 years old this year. On that day, the State of Israel came into being. The creation of Israel was a violent process that entailed the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homeland to establish a Jewish-majority state, as per the aspirations of the Zionist movement. Between 1947 and 1949, at least 750,000 Palestinians from a 1.9 million population were made refugees beyond the borders of the state. Zionist forces had taken more than 78 percent of historic Palestine, ethnically cleansed and destroyed about 530 villages and cities, and killed about 15,000 Palestinians in a series of mass atrocities, including more than 70 massacres......" There are millions of people that are going through the actual experience as the rest of the world in many respects are basically helpless. I believe that many hearts and minds would change if they spent some time there with semitic Christian brothers or sisters whose families histories go as far back as the first century when God ended forever the kingdom of Judah ( as the ten tribes of Israel were scattered 800 years earlier). Israel 1948 came into being as a political/ religious/ military movement with long thought out plans, and particular deals made with the governments during both world wars to facilitate their goals. There is a ton of information that is not readily available on the details of what I am saying. It was not an organic, spontaneous kind of holy thing that just came together out of thin air.

I just don't think it is as cut and dry as that. Did you ever see a map of Palestine before 1948 and what Palestine looks like today? They practically have no land. It was never meant to be that way either. I would say they have a righteous cause. And I don't believe that the terrorism is one-sided either. Taking over other people's land is an act of terrorism. And no one, no one can deny that. That's what Israel has done to these people. It's easy for us to pontificate thousands of miles away.

Perhaps because many of them seek revenge from all the years of living in an open air prison? The memory of the Nakba? Not that I am in agreement with the sentiment as a Christian. And I'm sure once again, instead of lumping everyone together, I'm sure there are people that don't feel that way. I'm wondering how it would be any different than Americans after 9/11? You know the media and the government really hyped us up believing that anything Muslim was bad. I even went along with the propaganda for many years until I realize that if a billion and a half Muslims hated us so much that they would do jihad on us, this world would not be existing today. So it must mean that there are peaceful Muslims as well.

Everything we experience in this world is part of God's plan, which will glorify Him in the end for all nations to see. But I have to tell you that an unsaved Israeli is no different than an unsaved Palestinian in God's sight. In other words they must be redeemed by the precious blood of His dear Son to be "His own people".

Wikipedia is extremely biased when it comes to geo politics and at times religion. For most other searches it's not bad. What we all need to do ( if we want truth) is to search the historical records. Even older encyclopedias and literature. There will always be a bias but you have to go to different sources and build upon it .

I've heard of him but never looked into his story. I'm sorry but I'm not a big wikipedia fan. I'm going to check out some of the Holocaust encyclopedias that are available online. Thank you anyway.

I never said I trust Muslims. But let me ask you a serious question. What are your thoughts on a two state solution?

I've done a good deal of research on the subject. I have to work now but let me start out by saying anything I say I make sure it is 100% fact, based upon every source I can find. If I'm not 100% sure, I will say so. This is a very critical subject. In approximately 18 countries it is a criminal offence to question the official narrative of the Holocaust. In other words, you can be jailed if you publicly, peacefully disagree with the established story. What do you think about that?

Agreed. I have looked into the influence of the media over the last 200 years, and it appears the narrative started to change around the mid 1800's: 1865 REUTERS NEWS AGENCY The Reuters Telegram Company is the world's first major news organization. Established by Paul Reuter (born Israel Bere Josafat), Reuters builds a reputation in Europe for being the first to report news ‘scoops’ from abroad, such as Abraham Lincoln's assassination. Almost every major news outlet in the world today subscribes to Reuters' services, which operates in over 200 cities in 94 countries in about 20 languages. The creation of the Reuters media empire marks the critical point in history when Jewish moguls begin to dominate the press of Europe and the US.

"Your mind goes to places that normal people should never knew occupy" I'm sorry, the only place I went to is Factsville. In this world we live in, I no longer accept the status quo without checking things out for myself. Is that abnormal?

You said: " We who call ourselves Christians are NOT all who'll be at the marriage feast to dine! " This is what I'm talking about with your backwards theology. It's like you're giving the Old Covenant preeminence over the New covenant by making this statement. THERE'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE FROM ALL NATIONS AT THAT MARRIAGE SUPPER....WHO DOESN'T REALIZE THIS?

I'm sorry what is the context of Psalm 41?

It's symbolic LANGUAGE of a literal event.

"Sounds like the 7th Day Adventist false doctrine of annihilation" I don't know how to answer that except maybe even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Revelation 20:15 KJV And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Either that scene is going to literally take place with all the billions and billions that ever lived and died in their sins, or it is allegorical in nature. Either there will be lines hundreds of miles long with people waiting to see if their name is written in the Lamb' s book, or the judgment is in an instant as the "lake of fire" ( Christ's coming with fire) consumes this earth. It all has to work together cohesively.

"nobody warned the people in the Twin Towers to get out-" Haaretz Odigo Says Workers Were Warned of Attack Yuval Dror Sep 26, 2001 "Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack........" ( I couldn't post the whole article unless I subscribed) ....................................... Larry Silverstein (who bought the World Trade Center several months before 9/11) and his whole family who worked there were not present on 9/11. Larry always attended meetings every morning at the top of the world trade center, But on that morning he had a doctor's appointment. I think they were notified.

I initially studied the phrase because I believe that we are predestined by God to salvation, that's what I read in scripture. So when I was refuted for my belief with a verse like Romans 10:13, I looked further into it and it was a blessing.

"Your suggestion that this present earth will remain after the second coming is false, it will be the Lord's "Literal Fire" that dissolves this earth down to its very elements, nothing symbolic whatsoever as you suggest" I don't believe I said this was symbolic. I agree with you. It definitely is literal fire.

I'm sorry but I do not see this place of eternal torture in the Bible. I do read about the death of the unsaved soul and body.