artsylady

I wish people would stop it with the PETA thing. Although philosophically, they are correct in much of their views, we all know they aren't necessarily on the up and up either, at all times. I am not here to give Peta ammunition. I am here to see if any free thinkers might want to open their minds to an important issue of today. If you don't that's fine, but why do you have to keep piping in? Just ignore me. ???

As far as plant based 'meat' and 'cheese', most vegans don't give up meat and cheese because we hate the taste of these things. We hate the cruelty in the industry and that God's creatures are being so badly abused in it. So the alternatives taste good and are cruelty free. It's a win-win. Thanks for asking.

Not trying to shame anyone. If anyone feels shamed, its not from me. You might want to give that some thought. I might reiterate, only here to give new info to those who are ready to check it out. I hope some do!

I used to argue in this regard - that counseling could change a person's mind etc, etc. I used to point to a group called Exodus who was doing that very thing. However, when I was debating this one day, I was informed that Exodus, a Christian group, had folded, admitting their attempts to 'ungay' people did not work. Gay conversion therapy really doesn't seem to work. Just one more factor that changed my mind on the whole gay issue. I still do believe that if a Christian is sincere and wants to change, God will ALWAYS heal the spirit and change will happen. I had to wonder why these sincere people, wanting change, were not being changed.

Jesus never said a thing against being gay.

Also in Leviticus, eating shrimp, lobster, crab is an 'abomination'.

Read the book by Justin Lee's called Torn. This was the beginning of when I decided to change my mind on this important issue.

In the above, and in most of my life, I am talking about interactions with non believers. I had actually thought that I might possibly have a respectful discussion about the vegan lifestyle amongst Christians. Its becoming more prominent in Christian and non believer I am pushing it the same way I would 'push' to end abortion. Anyway, I have a feeling there are people reading who are, understandably, not commenting, but maybe considering not eating any more dead animals, or at least looking into it more. It's intriguing that non Christian and Christian omnivores are very much the same in their arguments to eat meat. G'night! Sleep tight! I am off to bed. Perhaps Ill have a snack before bedtime though. Have to see if I can find some grass in the fridge. hahahaha.

When did I say that?

Calm down, take a breath. Your continual comments about 'grass' show that you are emotional and angry and unreasonable. I have never heard of a human eating grass. Do you consume only flesh and dairy? Vegans can live to be centenarians. That's all the proof anyone really needs to show that humans don't need to consume the flesh of animals or the hormonal secretions of other mammals. Meat and dairy cause cancer. Google "meat cancer studies". Lots will come up. Google 'vegan bodybuilders". Did you know Mr Rogers, CS Lewis and whole host of gentle, influencial Christians abstained from animal flesh? Do you see that when things on earth were totally ideal, in the Garden, humans were not eating meat? Before you reply with another emotional outburst, I hope you will take the time to research a few more things, like the diet of Adam and Eve, etc. I have to go now. Good night.

Asked to Sheep and ignored: "You should be able to see that in the Garden, when things were perfect, humans were eating plants and seeds. Do you understand that? Let's start there." Instead or ranting and raving about 'emotionalism', how 'bout a discussion>?

Asked and ignored to Sheep. "Let me assume, for instance, that you are concerned about the baby in the womb who may be poisoned with salt, cut into parts and limb by limb, sucked into a sink. would you feel that your concern is emotional or compassionate? It's the same kind of thing."

And I am the one being emotional?

What if there was a gazillion food choices. Would you eat the dead cat? The point about Daniel I make is that he, and all of the others, THRIVED when they did not eat the meat. Do you see this?

You keep accusing me of being emotional. How about this? Let me assume, for instance, that you are concerned about the baby in the womb who may be poisoned with salt, cut into parts and limb by limb, sucked into a sink. would you feel that your concern is emotional or compassionate? It's the same kind of thing.

I really don't think I am the one here being overly emotional here.

I am not judging you. Are you judging me? Why won't you allow me to have my opinion on this matter? You should be able to see that in the Garden, when things were perfect, humans were eating plants and seeds. Do you understand that? Let's start there.

If you were in China, would you eat a cat?

I have said over and over that I know people like you won't change and that I am not really here to talk to you anyway. So why do you keep commenting? DO you feel the need to defend your belief that you want to eat animals? Why?

What verse in Genesis pertaining to Noah and the new laws says God 'blessed' eating animals? I just read it and did not see it. "Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps".... You are clearly making assumptions. What is clear, however, and in scripture is that their health was better when they did NOT eat animals. I WILL use the Bible. It's right there - clear and concise - no 'perhaps' necessary.

Also my viewpoint is Christian because 1) I AM a Christian and 2) there are certainly Biblical references to support it as the IDEAL, not just something allowable. Anyway, since it's allowable, it's also 'debatable'. I just wish people would stop judging ME because I am trying to see if there are like minded Christians HERE or those who could be open their minds to the possibility. As a personal testimony, since I stopped eating animals, I have found that I am kinder, and gentler and more at peace. I actually find animals come up to me in homes where the owners are surprised as the cat or dog is usually evasive. The animal really wants to be around me. And THAT is a very effective testimony to the owner of the animal. I could blab all day long about this or that, but when they see something like this, every word I say becomes more credible to them, as they see their pet trusts me. As I am with my Christianity, I am not preachy about what I eat and my food choices. I am quietly confident and gracious. I understand that not everyone has had the same info as I have had. We were at a dinner last night at a theatre production dinner theatre where I had just met a lot of people - a family style meal where bowls were put on the table. I didn't go on talking about my food choices. I just put potatoes, veggies, and a roll on my plate. I know people saw this. They didn't ask, I didn't say anything. It's leading by example and not coming across as 'holier than thou'. I do 'get it' if you don't want to change or rethink anything. However, why try to destroy and manipulate my point of view, claiming it is unchristian etc?

I can tell you are uninformed on the issues due to the arguments you try to present. If you were informed, you wouldn't present them. It was compassion and new information that changed my stance. Getting informed on something that I wasn't really comfortable getting informed on. However, God takes us out of our comfort zones at times to stretch us, make us grow. I hope you can relate. There ARE scriptural references to support my view and I've stated them enough times. I don't know how you keep missing them, over and over. At least you realize it was not until AFTER the FALL that meat of animals became permissable- (not adviseable)

Isn't that thread still up there for all to see?

For what? You think I don't know about meat references in the Bible? I do. I also know things have changed since Jesus day. I also know "GOD owns the cattle on a thousand hills" It's the modern day treatment of God's creatures, like the cows that aren't actually on hills anymore. That is what I'm talking about. I'm sorry you keep missing my point. Is it because you want to? I don't have a lot of time to come here to have people misrepresent what I say and judge me and jump to incorrect conclusions and misquote me. Surely to God, there are people reading these threads who can see what's happening and how things are being manipulated. Are you sure you really want to keep commenting here about this, the way you have been?

Truth: In the garden, people were told to eat plants. Much later, Daniel, the prophet, as well as Shadrach, Meshack and Abendnego all thrived on a plant based diet. You can look these up if you want to. What's the verse in the Bible "Everything is permissible, not everything is adviseable"? Maybe it applies here. See, Bible verses, Bible references apply to my way of thinking. It's a debatable matter. If you don't wish to see it, change your thinking or learn something new, I have not come back here to talk to you or anyone like you. Of course, I knew there would be many like you. It's the same in the secular world. It's those who wish to rethink, change, grow, or at least look at things from a different viewpoint, that I would like to speak to. I briefly saw someone ask why make things that taste and resemble meat, but are not meat? I am glad you asked that. I don't wish any being to be raised in an abusive way, all of their lives to face a slaughter house where they scream in fear, have their throats slashed and blood spilt so that I can 'enjoy' my meat, 3 times a day. I didn't adopt a plant based diet because I didn't enjoy meat. I adopted it because it was gentler, kinder and no sentient being is hurt. However, after a certain amount of time of abstaining, I also could not ever 'enjoy' eating animal flesh.