Jedi4Yahweh

Yeah I may have been a little sarcastic but I am not the one calling people ignorant and unqualified to understand the bible. No one said that. What I said is that you are unqualified to address doctrine. And it is true, given the shallowness of your understanding of salvation as revealed in your posts. So I am ignorant and unqualified to give my biblical opinion of a doctrine??? I am still waiting on your divine qualifications, oh great and lofty one?

Wow..never heard it explained so well and clear. Thanks! But what if both are guilty of adultery before they divorced and before they were saved? Our sins have been forgiven upon salvation. We are a new creation in Him. So does that mean in that case that they are free remarry another?

Yeah I may have been a little sarcastic but I am not the one calling people ignorant, misinformed and unqualified to express biblical opinion.. I am still waiting to here back of what makes him so qualified?

You assume that no one who accepts Christ ever turns their back on God loses faith and returns to sin. Why would the bible warn us about falling away from God if it was not possible. I am sure you have read the parable of the Sower. It explains 4 types of people who hear the gospel and receive Christ: 1) The seed that had fallen on the wayside or walking path, are those who receive the Word but only endure for short peirod becuase they did not allow the seed to take root the devil comes and robs it from them. 2) Those that fell on rocky shallow soil are those that receive Christ (the seed/the word) with gladness but make no real commitment to follow. Their roots are shallow. They endure for awhile but when things get tough they bail out. 3) Those that fell on among thorns are those that accept Christ but allowed sin back in to their life or never full repented and eventually those sins chocked out their relationship and faith in God and they too eventually fall away. 4) Those that fell on Good soil are those that accept Christ and have turned from sin and committed their whole life to serving God and those are the ones who endure till the end and produce fruits for the Kingdom of God. You assume all those who receive Christ fall into group 4.

Judaism has a form of Godliness and but fact they deny Christ makes it not of God. There is on hope or salvation outside of faith in Christ for Jew or Gentile. So there is no salvation in following Judaism that denies Christ. On the other hand as Paul has stated God has not forgotten his promise to restore Israel and its King. Will God reconstitute OT law? No, Jews will have their eyes opened to the truth and will look upon Jesus whom they rejected as their Messiah and will be brought into the new Covenant also called the eternal covenant.

I didn't believe that a Jew gives up being a Jew, but on the other hand unbelieving Jews do not consider a Jewish christian a Jew; they are disowned. So in one since he or she is giving up who they are for Christ.

Wow..never heard it explained so well and clear. Thanks! But what if both are guilty of adultery before they divorced and before they were saved?

What ever dude they mean exactly the same no matter how you twist it. Not qualified??? Oh forgive me for not being qualified to read and understand the bible. Can you be any more arrogant? So whats your qualifications, oh great one? (or I am to lowly to ask such a great thing of thee.) There is no difference. No matter what name you give it. Its still the same lie. They both mean a Christian can not lose his or her salvation, no matter what? Your only twist is if they do fall away and do something hideous, then you say, they were never saved in the first place. So since you don't know for sure if he or she will fall away and commit apostasy how can you guarantee or teach anyone that hey have eternally security? I can see it now, "Now that you have come to my alter and said your lil' sinners prayer, your now Eternally Secure.......but in the future if you so happen to go and do some thingy really horrible such as murder, incest, adultery, oops scratch adultery, molestation etc.., we are going to deny that we ever guaranteed Eternal Security and we are going to say, you were ever saved to began with."

Your making the assertions that most Christians approve of this? I am sure if most Christians knew about this and its meaning they too would have disapproved. Again no one is denying that Jews have not been persecuted we see it all the time in the news. The only problem is that you make it out that all or most Christians are anti-Semitic which is plan false. If Martin Luther, Billy Graham or any other person is guilty of hating Jews or any other, then shame on them and let God judge them. Any who this is off topic, the whole reason this got started was addressing Judaism being involved with church operations. Just because a church doesn't practice Judaism traditions and customs does not make them anti-Semitic. Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians are not bound to follow Judaism nor its customs or traditions. Just becuase they want to be freed form those burdens, does not make them anti-Semitic, its our freedom in Christ. These are the same issues that Paul and the early church addressed which are now being considered anti-Semitic.

Eternal Security is just another label for OSAS which is just another label for Perseverance of the Saint's from the TULIP doctrine espoused by Calvinism. They all mean the same thing, "once saved always saved". Eternal Security may not address the issue of living in sin but it makes it clear that there is nothing you can do to lose this eternal security including sinful living. The bible makes it clear and warns us in many places that we must endure until the end to have this assurance and that we can lose faith in God and fall away from God. Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called 'Today,' lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, ""IF"" we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end (Hebrews 3:12-14). Thats why God sent the all knowing doctrine expert Shiloh357 to save us from our ignorance. God forbid we try to understand the simplicity of the scriptures for ourselves, because we all know they don't mean what they say but only how Shiloh357 interprets them for us.

lol...yeah it may not exist but that doesnt mean it isnt being taught.

Dude, I have always had these views as long as I have been Christian. I have always thought the best of Israel and for Israel, but at the same time I am not obsessed with Israel as you seem to be, to the point that you show disdain and hate for other believers who don't agree with your obsession. Just becuase people don't agree with your point of view and assertions does not make them Jew haters. This is nothing new to me, I have dealt with your kind before, MJAA for one. Who are blatantly anti-Christian and anti-Church. Who promote the Two-House theology which is totally a corrupt and false doctrine which teaches that gentiles are seconded rate Children of God not equal to Jews. This is racist theology. No wonder Jews have so much hate for Gentiles and choose to separate themselves from other Christians.

Give me a break. Your making arrogant false judgments of people on here and making hateful and resentful remarks toward all Christians. I have a deep respect of Jews and their land. I respect Israel over my own country and I pray for their salvation often, but I have a deeper respect for my brothers and sisters in Christ both Jew and Gentile, which you falsely accuse. 1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in the darkness, and walketh in the darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because the darkness hath blinded his eyes.

See you dissect who was responsible and don't blame all Jews for Christian persecution. Yet when it comes to the other side you blame the enter body of Christ for Jewish persecution. No one here is denying that some people and groups persecuted Jews in the name of Christianity, but it was select groups in select regions that did this, but you make it out that all Christians are Jew haters. Don't you think Jew's try to silence Christians as well? We have many biblical examples to prove it. Even today, most Jew's are anti-Christian yet most Christians are pro-Israel. What's wrong with this picture?

Hi hs, i started this topic as i came accross fairly strong proof that i have been wrong about divorce and now i am unsure and asking others for help re the assertions of Ted Weiland. Have your done a web search of him, he has some strong pro divorce evidences. I am a divorced person through infedelity on both sides, but i became a Christian and did not want to divorce, believing for God to bring healing and make us a family again, but she did not have the same faith. Its been 20 yrs now and i have sought to remarry but it has always been disasterous. Then i came accross strong evidence that remarriage was adultery, now i am unsure again and i just want to know the truth. What has what i think or want got to do with what God commands, we must be willing to live Gods way or forfeit salvation. If you involve your understanding based on how you are affected, are you not in danger of making your own god? I am really sorry to hear. I am not a marriage expert and I have never been in that situation, so I really don't know what God allows in those situations. I know it happens even to the best of people. I pray God gives you wisdom and guidance.

See that's where I have a problem. Yes there have been certain people and groups in history that have persecuted Jews in the name of Christianity, but the church as a whole is not guilty of this. It sounds like your assigning blame to the entire body of Christ. Just because some people or groups used the name of Christ to persecute others does not make the Church as a whole guilty of it. I question anyone's salvation that persecutes others in the name of religion or for any other reason. So if you wanna assign blame, assign it to whom did the persecution rather then making blanket statements against all believers. There are churches who have and approve of abortion. Should we condemn that whole Church as abortionist. There are churches who are and approve of homosexuality. Should we say that the whole church is guilty of this. Christians are one of the few groups that I know that reaches out to Jews. I really cant think of any other group outside of Christianity that reaches out and supports Jews and their rightful land of Israel; I am sure there are a some exceptions. Yet you wanna paint all believers as Jew haters, or am I reading you wrong.

If I am not not mistaking, the bible speaks of your situations where if your spouse abandons you then you are free to remarry...but that needs to taken lightly becuase some spouses leave because they are abused by their husband/wife or they were cheating on them.

You could say the same toward Jews who killed and persecuted Christians of the early church? Even Jesus prophesied of it? Paul was one of those who persecuted Christians. Mat 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. Joh 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. You cant deny that Christians have been a subject to much Jewish persecution. Even today, if a Jew believes in Christ they are rejected by Jews and not considered a Jew any longer. You can be a Jew and be a murder, Homosexual, and commit any other horrible sin and still be a Jew but once you become a believer in Christ then your nolong considered a Jew in eyes of Jews. When will you all address the double standard?

Yeah I really like Michael Brown. I used to go this Church down in Florida. I love his book called "How saved are we?" http://askdrbrown.org/resources/store?page...p;category_id=6

Your absolutely right it was just as much my fault as it was the church that taught it.. Its my fault for not seeking out the truth and believing whatever my church/Pastor feed me rather then finding out what the bible says...but what do you expect from a young teenager and an unbeliever at the time. Later on in life I realized that I was being lied to and I left and sought out church's and believers who didn't fall for such OSAS lies. The whole time that I was going to these OSAS church, I knew down in my heart that there was something wrong with this doctrine and I knew that it didn't jive with what Jesus taught. So, no one in your church or youth group ever told you to read and study the Word daily? Or did you just ignore it. I'm not trying to make this personal with you Jedi, but to make the point that if one stays in the Word, and compares what they are taught against the Word, the Holy Spirit ensures that one is not deceived. hmmm....did you even read my post? How could I've ignored it...if I realized it and left. How do you know it wasn't the Holy Spirit showing me the truth? The Holy Spirit will guide you into truth, but he will not force feed you the truth. You can choose to follow the Holy Spirits guidance or ignore it as many do. Yes it did take a few years for me to realize that it was not inline with God's Word. I was around 18 when I stopped going to OSAS churches. Its was a little hard to break away from that teaching being that I was raised to believe that by my parents, church, and my grandfather who was the pastor.

I think as someone stated before most of the Christian Jews may have gathered in synagogues at the start but where later forced out of synagogues and met wherever they could such as homes. I am sure that many born again Jews continued to go to synagogues to convince their neighbors and kin man that Jesus truly is the messiah which they looked for, but as we all know from scriptures most Jews rejected him as messiah and forced those who believed out of the synagogues. Never the less this did not prevent those who believed to gather in homes and in other structures to teach and worship God. Joh 16:1-2 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. (2) They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. So yes having that revelation of who Christ is definitely effected their view point and relationship with God and fellow Jews, but never the less a synagogue was a place to worship and to hear the word of God which is really no different then what happens at most Christian churches, but with the exception that we have the understanding of who the Messiah is.

Of course they preached in the synagogues. Christ sent them first to the lost sheep of Israel. But, after they converted the Jews in the synagogue, what indicates that they continued to meet in the synagogue and worship there? Did they merely change the name "synagogue" to "church", so that Paul, when writing to the Church in a particular place was actually addressing the an assembly in the synagogue? Were the uncircumcised Greeks allowed into the synagogue after the members of the synagogue were converted? Church and Synagogue mean the same thing. They are synonymous to each other. Ekklēsia is the Greek word for Church and Synagogue. And yes there was still a lot of issues between Christian Jews and Gentiles as you can read in the letters of Paul but Paul says that both believing Jews and believing Gentiles have been brought together by Christ to form a new body.

There is a lot of first century church letters and documents out there where you can read about the operations of the early church...but you must also take this with with a grain of salt and not base our current church functions on early church operations unless they are in direct line with the word of God. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ I agree, but like others have said much of our Christian heritage is founded in Judaism. Not saying the Judaism the model we should strive for, unless its in line with scripture, but we should understand that Christ, the Disciples, and much of the early church were Born-Again Jews. So yes a lot of the functions and operations are based on the Judaic synagogue model, but also based on Paul's writings and instructions who was a Born-Again Jew.

I don't think anyone purposely rejects God after they become believers. Its through the deceitfulness of lust and sin that causes our hearts to harden and faith to weaken toward God. Eventually this person is not living in faith but is denying Christ by his or her actions. They may honor God with their mouth but their heart is far from him. This is why we are told that we must endure till the end, because some people give up and walk away from the faith. They may still go to church and go through the motions but they have abandoned their true faith. Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called 'Today,' lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end (Hebrews 3:12-14). Notice it says IF we hold fast until the end.

No where in the bible does it say that God has to honor your prayer. Prayer is not a requirement of salvation, there are two requirements faith and repentance. Just because you prayed Lord give me eternal security does not mean God will grant you eternal security. I could pray that every day but if I am not willing to turn from sin and put all my trust in Christ it is a useless prayer. Is God required to answer your prayer??? 1 John 3:22 “And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight Psa 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: There are many reasons why God does not answer all prayers....but one of the main reason is unrepentant sin. So just because you prayed to God to give eternal security does mean God is required to answer.