Kansasdad

Actually, it's no coincidence. These three parables show us the saving grace of the Triune God: The Son seeking the lost sheep, the Spirit seeking the lost coin, and the Father receiving the lost son. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like this, let me think on this some more, but I think there is some real meat here. Thanks Ovedya

Did he have a repentant heart and believe in the Grace of God, bought by the blood of Jesus Christ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely! The father never takes it away, but as both chilcren demonstrate, the father will let us reject it, he does not force it on either son. The eldest had the same grace available, but he chose to reject it. God Bless, Kansas Dad

Getting back to the original point of Noah, I find it interesting that the way Noah celebrated being one of the last humans alive is that he got drunk and then passed out naked. So did he go to hell? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did he have a repentant heart and believe in the Grace of God, baught by the blood of Jesus Christ?

I might add that the fathers Grace was purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ, and believing in the Fathers Grace means beleivng that Jesus died so that we may have that Grace. Kansas Dad

Great walk through Eric. I absolutely agree that we have no way of getting back to the father, it is beyond our ability. It is only through Gods Grace, God lowering himself to us, that he is able to lift us up to him. But it still took the sons initial opening of the door, "father I want to come back" The child opened the door so that the father could reach out to him and lift him up. One son accepted Gods grace, and one son rejected it. The youngest son who left could have had a different story, he could have done great things in the world, he could have built castles, he could have become the king, but unless he had made the decision to return, even misguided and ignorant to what that really meant, the Father would have left him to remain among the world, to be condemned with the world. This would not, as Ovedya pointed out, have changed the fact that he was still the Fathers son. Nothing can change that fact. The Eldest son was also the fathers son but rejected the Fathers Grace even though he had full knowledge of the father. The Father will let you leave, even though mankind can not understand how the father could possibly do such a thing. The Father through his Grace will always bring us back in, but we do have a part in the process, we have to open the door. How do we open the door, by having a repentant heart and believing in the Fathers Grace, That is our part. It is called faith. Faith is both believing in the Fathers Grace and having a repentant heart. God Bless Kansas Dad

So did the father go out and force the son to return, or did the son return of his own decision, albeit, influenced by the consequenses of his actions. If the son had never returned would he then have ever been in the fellowship of the father again? Of course I was told this parable had nothing to do with salvation. God Bless Kansas Dad

Sue you have given us another exceptional post. Your doctrine is absolutely sound, your reasoning is simple and understandable, and it actually makes sense. Thank you! God Bless Kansas Dad

Lets see the toes, or the final world power was made of clay and iron, a mixture of the strong and week. Hmmmmmmm God Bless Kansas Dad

No, If I am ever in her condition the right to make that decision belongs to my wife, not you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please go to BeyondtheImpasse.com and read the excerpt from the book. It isn't that long and you just might find it enlightening. Kansas Dad

Charlie, I noticed you like to ask yes or no questions but you don't like to answer them? Your Question: If embryonic stem-cell research (using left over envitro eggs) could have led to a cure for Terri Shiavo would you have been in favor of it? Yes or No My answer NO My Question but we weren't talking about curing her were we, we are talking about the value of life, is her condition how you measure her value, who gets to measure it, you?me, the courts, Who gives us that right, Only our creator has that right. PERIOD. She was not dead, she only needed food and water, you need food and water. If I decide your existence is not valuable do I have the right to deprive you of water. (I want a yes or no answer) Kansas Dad Your answer????????????????

This is absolutely exceptional!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you think I could copy and past a page from their web sight. It is a sample of what is in the book. I think they have put it out there for all to read so I don't think it would infringe on copy right laws. What do you think. Excellent Kansas Dad.

NO, but we weren't talking about curing her were we, we are talking about the value of life, is her condition how you measure her value, who gets to measure it, you?me, the courts, Who gives us that right, Only our creator has that right. PERIOD. She was not dead, she only needed food and water, you need food and water. If I decide your existance is not valuable do I have the right to deprive you of water. (I want a yes or no answer) Kansas Dad

Your assumption to fact are wrong. Please read my post #27. It is not over. We will live with the consequneses and they will not be good. What has happened here is vile and there is no other word for it. The courts have clearly stated that some life has worth and other life does not, and the courts have the right to make this decision. There are many many disabled idividuals who would take great offense to this. Our culture of death has taken one more step down a terrible slope, and it is unfathonable to me how anyone could in any way justify killing someone by de-hydration. What happened here was sick. Kansas Dad

FOM, we agree that there is only 1 God. But, the 1 God is manifested in 3 distinct persons. The very word for God in the OT is elohim, which is a plural form of "God." It literally means "Gods." We have allusions in the OT to the plurality within the Godhead: Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. In both of the passages above we see the Godhead referring to Itself as "us" and "our." Is that not plurality? And, in John 1 we have a picture of God the Father in eternity past with the Logos, God the Son. Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same (Jesus, the Word) was in the beginning with God. Question: How can the Word (Jesus) be God and at the same time be with God? If they are the same Person, then is it really saying: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Himself? It makes John 1:1-2 into a rather silly statement. John 1:1-2 clearly show 2 separate Characters. Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Question: Is Jesus sitting at His own right hand? Is that what it is saying? Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. The term "everlasting Father" is an unfortunate translation. A more literal rendering would be "Father of eternity." It is not saying that Jesus is the Father, but rather He is the Father of eternity... literally, he is the Creator and Originator of eternity. This is perfectly in line with: Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; JWs mistakenly use Rev 3:14 to "prove" that Jesus is a created being. This is not what the passage is saying, although the KVJ sounds like it is. The word translated "beginning" in the Greek is arche. That is where we get the english word architect or archbishop. It means that Jesus is the Architect of the creation. It could also mean that he is preeminent and above all creation, in the way that an archbishop is above the others. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This has always been my understanding of God, If any one can truly understand the Trinity. God Bless, Kansas Dad

Hate to break this to you, but that was a fictional portrayal of what such a discovery might be like. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yepp neb is right. I also watched it from beginning to end. Now I can see where if you came in after the first 5-10 mins of it being on you may get the wrong impression. I was a neat show though... Yep your right, walked in on my son watching the discovery channel, it was really cool though! Now fairies...my daughter used to think that the fireflies out in our woods were fairies....I guess that stemmed from "tinkerbell" in the peterpan movie...how she had the light surrounding her. We went out one night and caught some...brought them in the house so she could see they were bugs....it was a blast she laughed hysterically...(her words) when their butts lighted up Love and Blessings, Angel <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did any one see the case just recently here in Kansas. A girl much Terry's age was in a terrible accident. she was left unable to talk, walk, move any limb, or eat. She could only follow her mother and father around the room with her eyes. She had no hope of recovery. none. All the doctors said the same, no recovery was possible. The parents put her in a local nursing home and visited every day for hours. It was very difficult for them. They eventually started coming less often, once a week, once a month, every 3 months, but they still always came. After 15 years she started making horrible noises, like screaming, or she would open her mouth in a silent scream. It absolutely tore the father apart, he couldn't see her this way. It was very very difficult for him to visit her. They received a phone call after another 5 years had past, the nurse told the mother that someone wanted to talk to her, and her daughter said over the phone, MOTHER. After 20 years of a persistive vegatative state they now have their daughter again. Yes she is very much different. She is receiving intensive loving theapies, she is learning to eat again, take steps, and talk. She has a long way to go. This has been on our local news several times, they have been tracking her progress as doccumented on film by our local new outlets, interesting the national news has not picked this up. No the husband was not vindicated by the autopsy. We do not have the right to measure the value of life, and Terry was alive. There are thousands of people who have feeding tubs, this does not make them less valuable. She was alive and now she is dead. She is dead because she thirst to death. A horrible death. There was no dignity in it, and yes Terry's life was precious and valuable no matter how you try to measure it. We don't have that right. This was the most blatant vile act a court system could do to a human being, a creation of God. To defend this act is to defend the undefensible. It was abhorrent, vile and retched. The whole thing made me sick and very ashamed of America. Kansas Dad

Words to live by and encouragement to help endure. Thank You! Kansas Dad

And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. This is why I do see Gods hand in what is going on. No I don't blame the evil on God but I do see him as being in control. Israel is not turning to the ways of man. Are you sure about this? because many in the US have. But I might also add many have not. Israel's victories against the Arabs are by the hand of God. Both Israel an the US owe their greatness to God. Absolutely correct I could not have said this better. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boy it has been a long time since I started this thread, But thanks for resurrecting it. Kansas Dad

Thank you Eric, I have enjoyed it as well, you too have forced me to deeply think on the issue. Kansas Dad