jmwhalen

"And loving it." John "Shmart, we do not_____here(Ziegfreed)" Whalen

Do any of you "get tired", for the lack of a better description, of the seemingly just plain stupid, nonsensical use of words in this predominantly Holy Bible rejecting world? For example: "Escape from Houston is a slow-motion 'hell'" http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/specialco...a.bba1dd31.html My comment: No, if you were to read the Holy Bible, you would see not only how silly this statement is, but how it "makes light" of the awful consequences of rejecting the Lord Jesus Christ. _________________________________________________________________ "The wrath of Katrina/Rita" My comment: There is no "wrath of (fill in the blank of some 'act of God')", only the wrath of the LORD God. "These people were lucky/fortunate...." My comment: There is no such thing as "luck/fortune"-the LORD God is in control. __________________________________________________________ Is it just me "getting old"(rhetorical question), or does this "bug" any of you? And do you have any other examples? In Christ, John M. Whalen

In case you had not heard: the founder of the "Jesus" Seminar, or, more accurately, an antichrist Seminar, has died. ____________________________________________________________________ http://www.boston.com/news/globe/obituarie...f_jesus_seminar Robert Funk, founder of Jesus Seminar By Larry B. Stammer, Los Angeles Times | September 9, 2005 LOS ANGELES --Robert W. Funk, founder of the controversial Jesus Seminar, which called into question New Testament miracle stories and the authenticity of many of the statements attributed to Jesus, has died. He was 79. Associates at the Westar Institute, which sponsored the Jesus Seminar, said Dr. Funk died Saturday of lung failure at his home in Santa Rosa, Calif. He had undergone surgery in July to remove a malignant brain tumor. After many years in academia, Dr. Funk rose to public recognition after he founded the nonprofit Westar Institute in Santa Rosa in 1985 to promote research and education on what he called biblical literacy. Its first project, the Jesus Seminar, renewed the quest for the historical Jesus. In the course of those studies, the think tank stirred controversy among conservative Christians even as liberal Christians applauded its scholarship for making Christianity believable and relevant in the postmodern world. Among the Jesus Seminar's assertions was that many of the miracles attributed to Jesus never occurred, at least in a literal sense. The Jesus Seminar concluded in 1995 that Jesus did not rise bodily from the dead. The scholars also agreed that there probably was no tomb and that Jesus' body probably was disposed of by his executioners, not his followers. But scholars -- who included Burton Mack, Marcus Borg, and John Dominic Crossan -- also concluded that the religious significance of Jesus' resurrection did not depend on historical fact. ''We wanted to make an affirmative statement to all those who think we only care about tearing down Christian faith," Dr. Funk said at the time. The seminar, which eventually attracted more than 200 fellows in religion and meets twice a year, became famous for how its scholars voted on the authenticity of the biblical accounts, using different colored beads for grading: red for undoubtedly accurate, pink for probable, gray for passages containing some historical truth, and black for passages they found without historical basis. In all, 80 percent of the passages attributed to Jesus were rejected. Among the critics of the Jesus Seminar was religious broadcaster Pat Robertson. In 1991, when someone joked, ''I'd like to make them swallow their beads," Robertson said with a laugh and called the project an attempt to ''accommodate the Bible to their own disbelief." But Dr. Funk was unbending. Jesus, he said, was ''one of the great sages of history" but not the man portrayed in a surface reading of the New Testament. ''I do not want my faith to be in Jesus, but faith in the really real . . . in some version of whatever it was that Jesus believed," he said. An Indiana native, he was chairman of the Graduate Department of Religion at Vanderbilt University. Dr. Funk's books include ''Language, Hermeneutic, and Word of God" (1966), ''The Five Gospels: The Search for the Authentic Words of Jesus" (1993), ''Honest to Jesus: Jesus for a New Millennium" (1996) and ''The Acts of Jesus: The Search for the Authentic Deeds" (1998). He also wrote ''A Credible Jesus," (2002).

Bush's on record statements(underline is mine): On November 7, 2002, Bush hosted another Iftar at the White House "to help usher in the holy month of Ramadan." "Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America." Remarks by President George W. Bush in a statement to reporters during a meeting with U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan The Oval Office, Washington, DC November 13, 2002 "Islam is a vibrant faith. Millions of our fellow citizens are Muslim. We respect the faith. We honor its traditions. Our enemy does not. Our enemy doesn't follow the great traditions of Islam. They've hijacked a great religion." Remarks by President George W. Bush on U.S. Humanitarian Aid to Afghanistan Presidential Hall, Dwight David Eisenhower Executive Office Building, Washington, D.C. October 11, 2002 "All Americans must recognize that the face of terror is not the true faith -- face of Islam. Islam is a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. It's a faith that has made brothers and sisters of every race. It's a faith based upon love, not hate." President George W. Bush Holds Roundtable with Arab and Muslim-American Leaders Afghanistan Embassy, Washington, D.C. September 10, 2002 "According to Muslim teachings, God first revealed His word in the Holy Qur'an to the prophet, Muhammad, during the month of Ramadan. That word has guided billions of believers across the centuries, and those believers built a culture of learning and literature and science. All the world continues to benefit from this faith and its achievements." Remarks by the President George W. Bush At Iftaar Dinner The State Dining Room, Washington, D.C. November 19, 2001 "The Islam that we know is a faith devoted to the worship of one God, as revealed through The Holy Qur'an. It teaches the value and the importance of charity, mercy, and peace." President George W. Bush's Message for Ramadan November 15, 2001 "The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war." Remarks by the President at Islamic Center of Washington, D.C. Washington, D.C. September 17, 2001 When questioned by a British reporter about the God of Islam being the same as the God of Christianity, Bush replied: "I believe we worship the same God." In an October 26, 2004, Good Morning American interview with Charles Gibson, Bush was asked: "Do we all worship the same God, Christian and Muslim?" His reply: "I think we do." In his Good Morning American interview, Bush was also asked by Charles Gibson: "Do Christians and non-Christians and Muslims go to heaven in your mind?" His reply: "Yes, they do. We have different routes of getting there. But I will, I, I want you to understand, I want your listeners to understand, I don

I have never yet heard anyone claim that Mars had a world wide flood until just now. Please could you let me know who these "most evolutionists" are who claim this. A few links to "evolutionists" making these claims or endorsing them should be enough. The only links I can find are some astronomers talking about a patch of water about 4 times the size of Lake Tahoe (hardly a "world wide flood"!) and creationist propaganda sites. 1) Astronomers find what appears to be a lake bed and ravines coming off it on the surface of Mars. 2) Astronomers announce that the ravines may be evidence of a local flood in the area. 3) Creationists claim that "most evolutionists" believe in a "world wide flood" on Mars. It sounds like you have fallen for a creationist lie, to me... P.s. Mars has ice caps. There is incontrovertable evidence that there is water on the planet, not "very little" evidence... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ____ "I have never yet heard anyone claim that Mars had a world wide flood until just now." My comment: Then you have your head stuck in the proverbially sand. "NASA announces evidence for water on Mars....Not yet definitive" 4 March 2004 NASA announced on Tuesday that their scientists have uncovered evidence that part of Mars was once

Another Christian made the following point: Many/most(?)evolutionists will accept the proposition that Mars had a world wide flood, with either no evidence of water, or very little evidence of water, on the planet. And yet many/most(?) evolutionists will scoff at the idea that the Earth experienced either a massive "localized" flood, or a world wide flood, as described in Genesis 7-8, despite the fact that the Earth is covered with 2/3 water, and if all the mountains were pushed down and the ocean basins were lifted up, the whole earth would be covered again with water at least a mile and a half deep. In light of all the water in recent days/months, I thought this may be of interest. "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD...." Isaiah 1:18 In Christ, John M. Whalen

While "Be hot for God, or He will spew you out of His mouth! Lukewarm Christians who are weak of faith or who straddle the fence will be destroyed" may be a correct spiritual application(Romans 15:8)/interpretation of this passage, it "bothered" me why the Lord Jesus Christ references being "cold"-sounds like He is saying cold could be a good thing. Perhaps a little historical backround will shed some light? The city of Laodicea had 2 springs of water:one cold and one hot. Both were vital to the survival of the city. The hot spring was a source of healing and relaxation. Like most hot springs(I lived near Hot Springs, AR for a while!), it smelled of sulfur, and the water was undrinkable. Therefore, the cold water was absolutely necessary as a source of drinking water. Thus, both springs were vital for the day-to-day work of the city. If the hot spring water mixed with the cold water spring water, the water became lukewarm, and thus totally useless. The water is undrinkable because of the sulfur, and the water lacking its high temperature looses its healing qualities. It was thus useless, and anyone attempting to drink this water would have to spit it out immediately. So, spiritual applications: -believers must be useful-we are to be "life-giving" like water and comforting like hot water Lukewarm? Doesn't verse 17 explain this? "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked...." Isn't the Lord Jesus Christ saying that being lukewarm is not being wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked, but rather, it is thinking in one's heart "I am rich and prosperous and need nothing"? Are we not talking about spirituality? It is when we"feel" we are righteous, good, and in the state of not sinning, this is when we actually the most wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked. If we never recognize this state, we are never able to ask the Lord Jesus Christ for what He offers. "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev. 3:18 If we think we have it ourselves we cannot or will not ask it from the LORD. "Amen" of Rev. 3:14 is a Hebrew word expressive of life and unchanging faithfulness. It is one of the titles of the Messiah. It expresses what is immediately added:"...faithful and true...." The Lord Jesus Christ is not only the Way, He is also the Amen, i.e., the Truth. Thus He so often says "Amen, Amen, I say unto you...."As the faithful and true witness He judges evil and exposes the true condition of the soul, and as the Amen He is unchangeably faithful to those who respond to His "knock" for fellowship(context is fellowship, not salvation) and open the door to Him(3:20). He is the author of Creation, and He is also the author of regeneration-able to save and re-create any of the "wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked" that hear His voice. For their poverty He has gold, for their blindness eye salve, for their nakedness white raiment. How do we ask for it from the LORD? 3:19-"Change your mind"(meaning of the word 'repent')- Recognize that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked-it is toward these that LORD will bestow grace. This is what grace is all about. These are the people who are relying on the LORD to be hot or cold, so that they may be life-giving or healing/comforting. Frequently this passage is used by some to manipulate believers with guilt and fear. Ironically, those who do this are actually the lukewarm, having become useless, neither giving life or comfort. In Christ, John Whalen

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46324 House adds sexual orientation to 'hate crimes' OKs amendment to child-safety bill with help of 30 Republicans -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: September 14, 2005 7:00 p.m. Eastern

If they were going on a "three hour cruize", what's up with all the clothes they had on the island, and Thurston Howell III having piles of money in a suitcase? In Christ, John "stay with the best show of all time, the Andy Griffith Show" Whalen

"The church will face persecution in the end times. We will taste these things before God finally pulls us out of the picture to give the world a taste of true tribulation

The Glory of God-Saving lives, or Saving Souls? I provide this commentary, "...speaking the truth in love..."(Ephesians 4:15), in the hope(biblically, "confident expectation") that it will: 1.Edify("build up"-Acts 9:31; Romans 14:19, 15:2; 1 Cor. 8:1, 14:26; 2 Cor. 10:8, 12:19, 13:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:11; Ephesians 4:12,16,29; 1 Timothy 1:4) the Body of Christ, and perhaps "refocus" our priorities to the marching orders our real "Commander in Chief" the LORD God has set, 2. Draw the lost to the only remedy to "...the wages of sin...", which is "...death...."(Romans 6:23)- "...the redemption that is in Christ Jesus...."(Romans 3:24), and 3. Bring glory to God-the focus of this commentary. Scripture's testimony is clear: The LORD God needs nothing from us, as all is His, He is in control, and He needs no service from us: "...as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.." Acts 17:25 " If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand?" Job 35:7 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding." Job 38:4 "The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts." Haggai 2:8 After listening to the "world"'s commentary on the events surrounding Katrina, I appreciate even more Ecclesiastes 1:9, and just how "foolish" is "...the wisdom of the world...."(1 Cor. 1:20), and in particular, the "shock" the predominantly Christ-rejecting world, the media being its mouth-piece, feigns in coverage of Katrina. Those that know "...the scripture of truth..."(Daniel 10:21), those that embrace a Christian worldview, understand that we are to be ambassadors for Christ, and that our main charge given to us by the LORD God does not pertain to focusing on physical deliverance, but spiritual deliverance(salvation), per 1 Tim. 2:4, and that is only through "... the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"(Titus 2:13)-all to the glory of God.. Did you notice the following secular humanist, statements bantered about in recent days?: "The wrath of Katrina." "Fortunately...." "Mother nature" "The goodness of Americans"(despite Jeremiah 17:9) "Please say a prayer...."/"God bless America"(without the LORD God and his Christ ever being mentioned) And did you notice the media's shock at the "looting"? Only the gospel of Christ, the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus Christ within dead men, can change man's desperately wicked heart. Satan's method is to work from the outside to the inside(the physical), the opposite of the divine operation, which works from the inside to the outside through the gospel of Christ.. All of these types of arrogant, man-exalting, Godless statements reflect the mind set of this evil world-man depending on himself, exalting himself, instead of the LORD God. The Lord Jesus Christ is absent in any discussion. Man is exalted, and the glory of God is ignored. Did you ever once see anyone provide, at least in the testimonies provided via the media, as their motivation for helping out in this disaster(whether it be time, money....), the glory of God? This Christ-rejecting world asks(demands?) "God"("THE UNKNOWN GOD"-Acts 17:23) to bless America, with no desire to honor the only hope of this cursed world(Genesis 3:17), the Lord Jesus Christ, as it is written: "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." John 5:23 Most of the outpouring of aid, from the world's perspective, who know not the LORD God of the Holy Bible, is focused on bringing glory to what man is doing, instead of the Biblical command to "...do all to the glory of God"(1 Cor. 10:31-see also Isaiah 42:8 43:7, 48:11; Romans 11:36; 1 Cor. 1:31 6:20; Colossians 1:27; 2 Cor. 3:18, 4:6, 10:17; Ephesians 1:12; 1 Thes. 2:12). Witness the "day of man", vs. "The Day of the LORD", where men are "patting each other on the back" for their heroic efforts. And observed that this exaltation of man bringing glory to himself will be in full display on this weekend's "Jerry Lewis Labor Day Telethon"...-a mutual admiration society. As you know, believers saved by the grace of God(Eph. 2:8,9) are not to be "saving" this world, we are not to be "reforming" this world, whether this be in the form of a "social" gospel, or a "prosperity" gospel(a "perfect" environment in the Garden of Eden, and man still fell). We are to be living for the glory of God so that the world may see and know the true God of the Holy Bible. And this Holy LORD God of the Bible is revealed, made known, and glorified only through the Lord Jesus Christ, and only through his resurrected life being displayed through his sons who are "...bought with a price...." As noble looking as all the efforts in recent days to help out those on the Gulf Coast seem, let us remember that the LORD God, as revealed in the Holy Bible, needs no help from anyone of us, for, if He did, this surely would be an impotent God. And any actions, any ...righteousnesses....", from the divine point of view, in contrast and direct opposition to the secular humanist point of view, if scripture's testimony is to be believed, irrespective of their "sincere", well intentioned purpose, if not motivated by the desire to bring glory to God through the Lord Jesus Christ, is "...as filthy rags...."(Isaiah 64:6), and "...the way of Cain..."(Jude 11, Genesis 4:3). And despite any "successful" relief efforts fallen mankind may claim in upcoming days/months, in the eyes of the LORD, the only success He considers worthy of mentioning is that which He makes a success in and through you for His glory, and only as it is relative to and "...concerning his Son Jesus Christ....(Romans 1:3). One aspect of the glory of God refers to God's exalted standing, reputation, value, or esteem in other people's eyes(see Jeremiah 13:11). We glorify God when we acknowledge, by words or actions, that He is more important than we are, and that what he wants is more important than what we want, i.e., His will be done, not ours. This should be the abiding principle of our lives-choosing His way rather than our way. The ultimate demonstration of His glory is demonstrated in the attributes of His love and righteousness as displayed at Calvary. He sent "...his only begotten Son...."(John 3:16), the Lord Jesus Christ, to both vindicate the Father's name(Romans 3:24-26), and to pay for the wages of sin, which is death(Romans 6:23), by dying in our place for our sins(Romans 5:8, 1 Cor. 15:3, Galatians 1:14). The "ultimate" success, the Lord Jesus Christ, was a success on earth for one reason: He gave Himself unreservedly to be used of His Father for His glory: " Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify thy name...." John 12:27,28 " I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do". John 17:4 "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work". John 4:34 The Lord Jesus Christ's joy was knowing that he was finishing the work His Father had given Him-he delighted in doing His Father's will(Psalms 40:8,Matthew 26:39, Hebrews 10:7), all for the glory of God. It was not just His duty, His obligation- it was His food, His delight, to do the work His Father had given Him-and that work was to glorify His heavenly Father. The Lord Jesus Christ on earth, by his own admission, did nothing of His own volition: "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works". John 14:10 True success is no different than it was for the Lord Jesus Christ, when He humbled himself and allowed the Father to work in Him and through Him for 33 years on earth, depending on His father for everything, and all for one end-the glory of God. We are only a true success when we are used as vessels to outwardly display the life of Christ in us to a dying, cursed, sinful world, all to the glory of God. I urge all believers to use the events of recent days as an opportunity to display the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus Christ within yourself, "...which is Christ in you, the hope of glory...(Colossians 1:27) to a lost world, all to the glory of God, not yourself. If we have been relying on our own strength and our own resources, and not the LORD God's, it is time for all of us to discard these counterfeits. Trust in the LORD God's remedy for this "...evil world...."(Galatians 1:4)- His only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Let us have "...the mind of Christ...."(1 Cor. 2:16), for we have "...put on Christ...."(Galatians 3:27). Let us, to use a western idiom, "walk the talk"-"....walk ye in him...."(Colossians 2:6)! "The cross is "I" crossed out. Let us jetison the word "I" from most of our conversations, or in whatever we do, whether it is loving our families, serving our employers, providing an encouraging/edifying word, or aiding in the relief efforts in this disaster. Let us not only live FOR the LORD God, let us LIVE FROM the LORD God, the source being the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus Christ. The issue in glorifying God is not "...I , but Christ liveth in me..."(Galatians 2:20, Romans 8:10, 2 Corinthians 13:5, Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27) is doing this through me, "...all to the glory of God"(1 Corinthians 10:31), which I do "..all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him"(Colossians 3:17). The same power that raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead now lives within us believers, within these fallen mortal bodies(Romans 8:11). This "exchanged life" is God doing the work, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure"(Philippians 2:13). As we live day to day, we have the Lord Jesus Christ dwelling and living within us-the true "tabernacle" expressing Himself through us, doing His good pleasure. And to what end? For His glory, as we "...Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world...."(Philippians 2:14,15)! The Lord Jesus Christ is our strength, He is our life, for He is life(John 1:4, 3:16,3:36, 5:24, 5:26, 5:40, 6:27-6:54, 8:12, 10:28. 11:25, 14:6, 17:2-3, 20:31........). Lets us depend on this "....the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...."(Titus 2:13), acknowledge Him, in all that we do or say, as our sole source of strength. We will then be witnessing to the purpose for which we were created, witnessing to the supernatural, resurrected life of the Lord Jesus Christ within us, displayed through us to others. This indeed will be bring glory to God, as it is written: "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." 1 Peter 4:11 In Christ and with Christ, John M. Whalen

If the media and this Christ-rejecting world are startled by the devastation they have witnessed in recent days, to use a western idiom, "You ain't seen nothin' yet." The nature of the great tribulation-the below list from a Christian site summarizes this quite well: 1. Unbelievably bloody wars (Matt. 24:6-7; Rev 6:2-4; 14:20). 2. Drunkenness (Matt. 24:38; Luke 17:27). 3. Illicit sex (Matt. 24:38; Luke 17:27; Rev. 9:21). 4. Gross materialism (Luke 17:28; Rev. 18:12-14). 5. Rise of false messiahs and prophets (Matt. 24:5, 11-24). 6. Horrible persecution of believers (Matt. 24:10; Rev. 16:6; 17:6). 7. People hiding in the rocks of the caves in fear of God (Isa. 2:19-21; Rev. 6:15-17). 8. The pangs and sorrows of death similar to those of women in labor, to seize people (Isa. 13:8; Jer. 30:6). 9. Terrible worldwide famines (Rev. 6:5-6, 8). 10. Humans to be slaughtered by predatory wild beasts (Rev. 6:8). 11. Disastrous earthquakes (Rev. 6:12; 11:13; 16:18). 12. Fearful heavenly signs and disturbances (Luke 21:25; Rev. 6:12-13; 8:12). 13. Universal tidal waves and ocean disasters (Luke 21:25; Rev. 8:8-9;16:3). 14. The stars, moon, and sun to be darkened (Isa. 13:10; Joel 2:10, 30-31; 3:15). 15. The moon to be turned to blood (Joel 2:31; Rev. 6:12). 16. The heavens to be rolled together like a scroll (Isa. 34:4; Rev. 6:14). 17. Massive hailstones composed of fire and blood to fall upon the earth (Rev. 8:7; 16:21). 18. Huge meteorites to fall upon the earth (Rev. 8:8-11). 19. Stars to fall upon the earth (Rev. 6:13). 20. Salt and fresh waters to become totally polluted (Rev. 8:8-11; 11:6; 16:3- 4). 21. Universal disaster of land ecology (Rev. 8:7). 22. Events to go steadily from bad to worse (Amos 5:19). 23. A time of thick darkness and utter depression (Joel 2:2). 24. No period in history to compare with it (Jer. 30:7; Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:21, 22). 25. A time of famine of the word of God (Amos 8:11-12). 26. A time of absolutely no escape from God

There will be no "non-smoking" section in hell. "...behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)" 2 Cor. 6:2 In Christ, John Whalen

___________________ "You beat everything, Wayne, you know that!"(Andy to "Reliable Barney Fife"). I am jealous-"the flesh"! Once again, "...Thou hast well said...."(John 4:17). I took a "Hebraic Roots" course, per Romans 15:4 "...for our learning...", and 1 Cor. 10:11 "...Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples..."(ensamples='types'), and learned much the same. What is very important: as we have discussed previously, when the Lord Jesus Christ said, "... Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am"(John 8:58), "everyone and his brother", to use a western idiom, i.e., every Jew who knew the scriptures, also knew exactly what our great Saviour was claiming: He was identifying Himself with Exodus 3:14-the LORD God. Similarly, when the Lord Jesus Christ said "...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me", anyone who knew the scripture knew He was making a direct reference to the Tabernacle, and, specifically, its arrangement which was a picture, a foreshadow of the Lord Jesus Christ, God dwelling("to tabernacle")with men. A few other "nuggets" I learned: 22 characters in the Hebrew alphabet-each has a "picture-image". The 6th is 'waw', or 'vav', and its original picture symbolism, is 'hook, nail, peg'. The Lord Jesus Christ on the cross had 3 nails in His body=three sixes=666. The message is that the anti-Christ system was nailed to the cross by the work of the Saviour on the cross! Ever notice: the direction of the "way" of approaching the Tabernacle, from Burnt Offering Altar, to the Laver, to the "Holy Place/Holy of Holies" was from east to west. The wise men approached the King of the Jews from the east to the west. And: "As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us." Psalms 103:12 Who wrote this book?!!! In Christ, John M. Whalen PS: I also am by no means knowledgeable of Jewish tradition, but I am sure that everyone on this board would concede that I am "the expert" when it comes to "The Andy Griffith Show" tradition. I'm afixin' ta get me a "Number 5" tomorrow at Floyd's(or is that "Bowl 5"?)

because he doesn't know the true meaning of repentance. Repentence is not just a change of mind, it's also a change of heart, direction and attitude. After an altar call or whatever, you can't just say , thankyou for coming into my life Lord, and all you forgivenss and promises, but I can't take up your cross today, because I've promised the boys I'll go out on the binge and I can't let the boys down. Thanks for saving me though. Repent, repent repent. or perish. Jesus said it, not me. eric. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ___________ Scripture's testimony is that repentance is "change of mind"-the LORD God repented. The context determines of what you are changing your mind. "true" repentance-Regardless, "true" is a subjective term, as opposed to the objectivity of what was already done by the Lord Jesus Christ. And this is not "good news"N "it's also a change of heart, direction and attitude." This is service=sanctification=your walk, and is not the basis of justification. "you can't just say , thankyou for coming into my life Lord, and all you forgivenss and promises, but I can't take up your cross today, because I've promised the boys I'll go out on the binge and I can't let the boys down. Thanks for saving me though." And who said that? Only grace can teach you what to do/not to do for SERVICE. The old "license to sin" argument", and judging your righteousness in comparison to others, which is the wrong standard. The proper/only acceptable standard is the righteousness of God, and we all fall short of this on our own, and this righteousness can only be obtained through being justified by faith in what the Lord Jesus Christ already did("good news", by defintion, is that which has already happened)- 1 Cor. 15:1-4. This "you can't just say , thankyou for coming into my life Lord, and all you forgivenss and promises, but I can't take up your cross today, because I've promised the boys I'll go out on the binge and I can't let the boys down. Thanks for saving me though." mindset, is referred to as the "way of Cain"(Jude 11)-religion-presenting what you do(your service, either positively or negatively) as a basis for acceptance by a Holy God, despite the fact that the Holy Bible's testimony is that no amount of "lack of binging, taking up your cross" will justify you-only the work of the Lord Jesus Christ, and Him giving His life as a propitiatory sacrifice for you, and not you giving him your life(service), and His resurrection, will be accepted. I say "thank you for what you already did for me 2000 years ago". I don't say "thank you for saving me-now, how much do I owe you in service?", just as I do not ask someone who has bestowed upon me a gift, "How much do I owe you for the gift?" I will not insult the grace(gift) of God. "true" repentance-Regardless, "true" is a subjective term, as opposed to the objectivity of what was already done by the Lord Jesus Christ. And basing your justification on such a subjective criteria is not"good news", it is bad news. Yes, and Moses, David, Paul were all murders. Sin is not just wrong doing, but wrong being. See previous post. We do have a license to sin, but we do not need that license-we do it naturally. I have been justified by the grace of God. In Christ, John M. Whalen

Although I'm not quite sure how? You must have missed some of Jesus' quotes and nebula's posting on the apostles? I'll repost them: John 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you." Joh 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more." Matt. 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Mt 11:20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: Luke 13:3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Lu 13:5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." How about Revelations? Rev. 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent. Re 2:16 - Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. Re 2:21 - And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Re 2:22 - Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. Re 3:3 - Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. Re 3:19 - As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. And you find THESE absurd statements??? In His Truth, Suzanne _____________________________ No, they are written for my learning, but it is not doctrine written to me in this dispensation. And I find it absurd that you 1.refuse the Bible's testimony that repent means to "change your mind"-I showed you in 5th grade English that the LORD God repented, and 2.continue to apply doctrine not written to the Body Of Christ, and thus have no clue what justification is. I will repeat this truth: I have the righteousness of God. I have been justified. The LORD God is not imputing sins to my account-2 Cor. 5:19. Your unbelief in this does in no way affect this truth, for your belief and the truth are independent. I ask you again, do you do the following?(do you find these absurd statements?) : "Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." Mt. 23:2,3/Galatians 1:4 =observe the law! Do you do Mt. 5:29,30? Or how about: "And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them." Mt. 8:4 Do you follow the Lord Jesus Christ in circumcision(Luke 2:21)? Do you follow Him in going to the synagogue on the Sabbath day(Luke 4:16)? Have you sold all your possesions? The Lord Jesus Christ commanded his disciples to: Command given: Mt. 19:21' Mk. 10:21;Luke 12:33,18:22 Command obeyed: Mt. 19:27;Mk. 10:28;Luke 5:11, 18:28; Acts 2:44-45,4:32,34 Penalty for disobedience-death-Acts 5:1-11 Do you have "...all things common...": Acts 2:44, 4:32-34, 3:6 Do you obey all of His commandments? Do you continue to obey? How much rigteousness/odedience? How many good works?Tell everyone on this board you do, and how much righteousness. And tell us that you have performed the required number of good works for salvation. We are waiting for you to tell all of us what you do, and how you were able to do it. Let's try a few! How are you doing on these: -tithing approximately 33% of your net worth(not your income-the law demanded 33=% of your net worth)?(or perhaps you send in 33=% of all your net worth to TBN) -Do you "...love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might...."(Deut 6:5, Mt. 22:37, Mark 12:30)? - Or better yet, do you love me as yourself(Mt. 22:39, Mark 12:31)? -Keep the Sabbath lately(Exodus 31:15, 35:2; Lev. 19:30)? -Have you gone to any Gentiles lately(Mt. 10:5,6)? -Have you obeyed the Lord Jesus Christ's "charge" to "...tell no man that he was the Christ"(Mt. 16:20)? After all, this was his command, and we certainly do not want to have a "seared concious....." in "failing to consent to Jesus' wholesome words"(your words). -Condemned anyone recently(Luke 6:37)? -Ever called someone a fool(Mt. 5:22)? -Have you brought any gifts to the altar recently(Mt. 5:24)? -Do you travel to Jerusalem 3 times a year to keep the feasts of Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles(Exodus 23:14)? If you say you do, you have not been convicted, misunderstand the purpose of the law(to convict and indict you as guilty), and misunderstand Romans 3:23, or outright deny it. Do you know that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, up until the Lord Jesus Christ's death, is "law ground",i.e., it is a continuation of the "OT"? I simply point out that the majority of your "prooftexts" used to support your erroneous doctrine of "lordship salvation/"works based performance salvation", are written to Jews under the law(although we can learn from it-Romans 15:4), not to members of the body of Christ under grace(Romans-Philemon). The Lord Jesus Christ lived under the law, he taught the law, and he fulfilled the law: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Mt. 5:17 "Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe...." Mt. 23:2,3 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law..." Galatians 4:4 If you are not obeying all of this, you are "rightly dividing"-no other conclusion. The truth is, all christians "rightly divide" the Bible, and distinguish between God's different dealings with mankind under different dispensations. Most, for example, in the most obvious example, distinguish between the OT and the NT. I showed you the proper division with regards to the forgiveness issue, for example. You just won't obey the command to rightly divide with regards to this issue, and thus misunderstand the cross of cross and it's finality. By "rightly dividing the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15), we can understand the "supposed" contradictions in scripture, by understanding that their are divisions in the Holy Bible. Again, anyone with a simple understanding of the Holy Bible recognizes the division placed by God between the "Old Testament" and "New Testament". Those who deny that there are divisions, are either woefully ignorant(ignorant means 'lack of knowledge', not stupid), or intentionally dishonest. ""Every promise in the Book is mine, every chapter, every verse, every line."" Now the Bible is filled with promises. Some were made to Noah, others to Abraham; some to Moses, others to David; some to Peter, others to Paul. Was Noah promised the same as Abraham? Was Moses promised that his sons would rule Israel as was David? Was Paul promised that he would sit on one of the twelve thrones judging the tribes of Israel as was Peter? If a church teaches that ""every promise in the book is mine"", does it mean that every promise in the book becomes mine? The answer is simple of course not. Every promise in the Book is not mine! But why not? We all hold erroneous views and we have to ask by what standard is truth judged? Is it the Bible or some church? If a church teaches that Christians today are the Spiritual Israel, does that mean believers today are a spiritual Israel? If one church teaches that Christians should observe a sabbath of rest from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, while another says Sunday replaced the seventh day of sabbath, while a third states that Gentile Christians were never commanded to keep any sabbath, which is correct, if any? Without a consistent method of interpretation, right division, there is a danger that Christians feel the right to go through Scripture selecting the promises they want, like choosing food from a menu in a restaurant, selecting favorites and leaving ones not liked. In other words, Christians go through selecting some promises and leaving others, selecting promises of blessing, but rejecting promises of judgement! But the Bible was not given to be used like a menu. God inspired many different men to write over many hundreds of years. These authors wrote to particular people, addressing specific problems. Thus the basic of any consistent method of interpretation should be paying attention not only to what was said, but also to whom or of whom it is said. Also the time factor needs to be considered; either when it was said or to when it relates. Lastly, place may also be important; to where does it pertain. These give us building blocks for constructing a consistent understanding of Scripture. Ignoring them can lead to serious error, as the following old story illustrates. A person was in a desperate situation from which he could see no escape. He turned to the Bible which he closed, stood on end, and let fall open. With eyes closed he placed a finger on the page and looked at the verse indicated. It read, "Judas went out and hanged himself". Not liking this he repeated the process. The second verse was "Go thou and do likewise". In desperation he tried a third time. The result? "Then said Jesus unto him, That thou goest, do quickly." Obviously all three verses were taken out of context, and no truth can be derived from such a method. But equally no truth can be obtained by selecting promises from the Bible as one chooses food from a menu! Every promise in the book belongs to someone, but they cannot all belong to me, or to you. Those who say they are are liars, or are deceived. In order to help us appreciate which ones are ours we need to pay attention not only to what a promise says, but to whom it was made, to when it relates, and to where it pertains. Perhaps the following would be instructional: "It shall greatly help ye to understand Scripture if thou mark not only what is spoken or written, but of whom and to whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goeth before and what followeth after." -Miles Coverdale The most important principle for studying the Bible is to ask the following question: TO WHOM IS THIS PARTICULAR PASSAGE ADDRESSED? Every word of the Bible is true, but not every word of the Bible is written for us to apply today. In the Bible, God has recorded information starting before the creation of the earth and continuing onward into the future. During this vast period of time, God does different things according to His eternal divine purposes. While accomplishing His purposes, God says different things to different people at different times. Again, you fail to rightly divide the word of truth. Not all scripture is written to us for our obedience-you continually site passages given to Israel under the Law under the prophetic program-and this includes early Acts before the raising up of Paul, and Hebrews-Rev. In Eph. Chapter 2, the Apostle Paul presents his argument-he sets forth the basic three-fold division in God

Shiloh 357 writes: "Here is the problem with above... No one is claiming to be 100% surrendered. No one on this thread claims 100% sinlessness, so the above rant is really kind of pointless." No, some of the claims on this board imply, and/or state outright, that to be saved one must "repent of your sins=stop sinning", "make the Lord Jesus Christ Lord of your life","give your life to Christ","invite Christ intro your life","give all of yourself to Christ","commit yourself and your life to Christ"....... Repentance is presented as an "upfront condition", a "down payment", a "change in life", instead of a "change of mind". In "modern evangelism" there is much talk about preaching the gospel of Christ, while far too little is actually being preached. Many are talking in vague language about the Lord Jesus Christ

_____________ You continually go to LAW GROUND, and to scripture given to the Jews in the Tribulation, when the "rules of the kingdom" will once more be in effect. The Lord Jesus Christ was born under the law, and taught his followers to obey the Law. The commands you sight are LAW GROUND prior to the cross. Our doctrine for this "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2) is given in Romans-Philemon. The apostle Paul is the authority, by command from the Lord Jesus Christ, in this dispensation. The Lord Jesus Christ gave Paul the plan. Paul clearly stated that works are excluded in Eph. 2:8-9. Paul clearly told his readers that they were "dead in their trespasses and sins.....". God, who is rich in mercy and full of grace, gave us spiritual life even in this condition by believing in what His son did-his atoning sacrifice and his resurrection. A dead person cannot make the Lord Jesus Christ Lord of their life, and this is not salvation, but service. God makes spiritually dead people alive- making them alive "in Christ". God seats the newly saved people in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus and instructs them through grace to live and walk in the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus Christ. As we live in walk in our new ways(santification), we learn about the Lord Jesus Christ's lordship in our lives and in our walk. Jesus Christ is first our Saviour, the Saviour. And once we know Him as our Saviour, we get to know Him as our Lord in the sense of master, ruler, owner(the processs of santification). This is the process of growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. But it is not something we have to attain to prior to Him becoming our Saviour by faith.I n Christ, John M. Whalen

__________ No, repentance is a change of mind. "We have not repented if we continue in our sin" Such self righteosness. Please tell everyone you have stopped sinning. You again confuse justification with sanctification. "The evidence of repentance is not words of resolve, but a changed life". A health club can change lives-that does not make it the gospel of Christ. Muslims have changed lives, as to Jews................ How much of my life must I change to be justified? "Changed life" is sanctification. You are perverting the gospel of Christ, making what you do the basis of justification, instead of what the Savior already did for you. In Christ, John M. Whalen

Christ's Free Servant writes: "Repentance is an act of faith. If I say I believe Jesus died to free me from the penalty of and the bondage to sin, and yet I refuse to repent and I continue in my sin, then I'm a liar. To believe in someone or something means putting my trust in that person or object. If I am on the 5th floor of a burning building and the only way to safety is to jump out of the window into a net, that takes faith, and faith is total commitment. There is no half way. I can't stop part way down and hem haw around and vacillate between staying in the burning building or jumping to safety. There is no middle ground. And, I can't hold on to the burning building and try to reach for the safety net, because no. 1, my arms won't stretch that far, and no. 2, the safety net will be set on fire. But, this is what many people try to do. They think if they acknowledge that Christ died for their sins - I acknowledge that the safety net can save me - and if they "receive" Christ as their savior, whatever that means - I receive the safety net??? - then they are saved. But where is the commitment? Where is the faith? Where is the evidence that faith exists? The Bible says that when Jesus called his disciples that they left EVERYTHING and followed him. That is total commitment! That is what repentance is about. Did the disciples ever mess up? Sure!! Did they ever struggle with lack of faith? Sure!! So, they weren't perfect. But, they were going in the right direction. So, they weren't perfect. But, they were going in the right direction. " ____________________ No, faith is taking God at His word, and repentance is "changing your mind". "yet I refuse to repent and I continue in my sin, then I'm a liar." You just indicted yourself, since no one, you and me both, stops sinning. And once again, your defintion of sin is misguided. Sin is not just "wrong doing", it is "wrong being". Read my previous posts. " faith is total commitment." No, "total committment" is service, not justification. Have you "totally committed" yourself? How much committment? 89%? You confuse service with salvation. "Jesus called his disciples that they left EVERYTHING and followed him. That is total commitment!" And that is service, not salvation. . And none of them had "total committment" anyways-none of them even believed, after the fact, that the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead. The disciples were chosen(the meaning of the term "elect") for service. Judas was chosen for service. And this was prior to the Cross-Mt.-John is LAW GROUND. "So, they weren't perfect. But, they were So, they weren't perfect. But, they were going in the right direction And God's standard is PERFECTION. "going in the right direction" is not the basis of justification. Faith/Grace The Lord God justifies the ungodly-"Christ died for the ungodly", "when we were without strength"(we have no power within ourselves to save ourselves), "while we were yet sinners", and "while we were enemies"(Romans 5:6-10)-no "fixin' yourself up" prior to justification. The "fixin' up" comes after you are saved-your sanctification, your "walk". The biblical order is SONSHIP, then SERVICE. Reversing this order, and thus"Fixin' yourself up"("work") is service that God expects from those who are already his own, those that have already been "bought with a price", those who have been "set apart for his use"(the meaning of santification), but is not the basis of his acceptance. This would be presenting a "claim", a debt to God(Romans 4:4), for a gift, and thus it would nullify it as a gift, i.e., "what can I do to earn this gift?" When you get paid at work, you are receiving something that is earned. Your employer owes it to you-it is a legally enforeceable debt(again, Romans 4:4)-it is not a gift. Do you ever thank your employer for your paychech at work? I don't. They are just paying me what they owe me. If I didn't work, they would owe me nothing, and would pay me nothing. But when I receive a gift from someone, I thank them out of gratitude, not out of obligation. Grace In the English language grace is a word with a wide variety of meanings. It might mean beauty of form or movement, as graceful. It can refer to an attractive quality in persons, like kindness. A period of time in which payments or judgments are withheld is called a grace period. In religious circles it could mean a spiritual gift. What we want, however, is to discover what the word means in Scripture, And there dictionary definitions will not always do. God has to take ordinary words and invest them with extraordinary meanings in order to reveal heavenly and spiritual truths. We must note how He uses a particular word in the Bible to discover its real meaning. When that is done grace is seen to be the infinite love of God, set free by the death of Christ, manifesting itself in the bestowal of measureless blessings on the believer in Christ. It indicates not only His kindness and goodness but reveals the very heart of God. It speaks of that which moved Him to save the lost.

Sorry-repost: TSTH wrote: I would be curious to know how you receive these passages? What do they mean to you? Since this thread has seemingly bothered you......Meditate on these things, that you might understand and receive these Words" ________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________ Any statements that pervert the gospel of Christ, and the doctrine given to the Body of Christ in this dispensation(Romans-through Philemon), and places people under bondage, whether that be in the form of "lordship salvation", or a performanced=based system, does bother me-it bothered Paul(Galatians 1), and it should you, for: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1 Tim. 2:3,4 http://www.graceforall.net/No%20compromise_whalen.htm Do you understand justification in this "...dispensation of the grace of God..."(Eph. 3:2)? I noticed you quoted primarily from passages outside of Romans through Philemon. All scripture is for our learning(Romans 15:4), but not for our obedience. While we can glean many spiritual applications/warnings from all of scriptures(1 Cor. 10:11, 2 Tim. 3:16), including the Peter/John passages you quoted, not all scripture is written about us, or to us, or given as doctrine to us. Hebrews through Revelation is written doctrinally to Jews during the Great Tribulation, not to the Body of Christ. You must "rightly divide the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15). Your quoting of Titus 2:12: Grace appeared to all men, not to a particular people, and it did not bring them nutriment for their passions, their lusts, but nourishment for their souls. It did not demand righteousness("good works")from men, but brought righteousness(of God) to them. They needed righteousness. And so grace overleaped every obstacle in order to reach every man and to discipline them(2:12), so that in relation to himself he should be sober, righteous, and in relation to God, pious. Grace has appeared; the glory will appear(2:13). And grace, not the law, disciplines the believer as to his conduct while waiting for the glory, which in turn is to crown him(rewards). This verse is written to believers already justified, and is stressing that we were justified, and this grace instructs/santctifies us FOR GOOD WORKS. Only those sanctified by God are used for good works. May I suggest you "Meditate and receive this": And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." Ephesians 3:9 ________________________________________________________________________________ _____________________ Much of the confusion in "Christianity" stems from failure to rightly divide the word of truth(2 Tim. 2:15), mainly in not distinguishing in the divisions in the Bible, the most important being the 2 following main divisions: The prophetic program- which is God's purpose to establish a literal, physical, earthly, Davidic, Messianic kingdom("...as the days of heaven upon the earth