Karen C.

Zayit~ I was making the point that Adam had recieved the command from God BEFORE Eve came on the scene, which does not occur until Gen 2:21-25. Next the serpent (or shining one) shows up. Of course he works his deception through the one with the 'communicated' knowledge, Eve reasoned things away! But, Adam was RIGHT there, no excuse. He wasn't at the lake or watching a football game. He ate what Eve gave him. Fall complete.. No surprise the God though. My belief is that the time line here on earth was established for more than just our salvation and redemption. God sits outside our timeline.. what an awesome thing for our finite minds to understand. I believe the restoration includes the heavenlies that have also suffered due to satans rebellion. Sure God could have just "zapped him" at the first inkling of pride, but then wouldn't everyone else only serve Him based on fear? No, the Lord had a plan from the FOUNDATION of the world... awesome God! blessings,

I agree, Adam chose Eve over God. I also believe it had to do with Adam had received the command from God, "do not eat of the tree of good and evil." That was revealed (Rhema) knowledge to Adam. Eve had communicated knowledge probably from Adam, 'we can't eat from that tree." I know I respond differently to each one. I remember when I first got saved and I witnessed people that had quit doing certain types of behavior that God hadn't yet revealed (rhema) to me yet and in my new walk. I had neglected their advice to me. Mostly reasoned it away to appease my flesh.. The difference is the revealed goes to the heart, the communicated goes to the mind and can be reasoned away. Communicated knowledge often sounds like, "money is the root of all evil." (When we know the scripture does not say that. But the 'LOVE of money is.') It can be distored and misquoted because it is not "ours" so to speak. Eve sounded like this in her conversation with satan. blessings in Oklahoma!

Eve was deceived, but Adam was disobedient. Adam sinned with his eyes wide OPEN! That is why the word says through one mans disobedience (Adam) that all were made sinners. Blessings,

When you see the deeper meaning and the real intent of the enemy through understanding seed of woman and the seed of the devil in Genesis 3:16, Gen 6. It only helps me understand the battle is bigger than a little devil on shoulder trying to get me to listen to him. Seeing the bigger picture just helped me have a "made up mind to enter in to this battle!" Oh, don't forget another one of the devils tactics has ALWAYS been to counterfeit the work of God.... Unless you have a clear picture of who you are in Christ and a understanding of a REAL battle going on in the heavenlies (which are entrenched around us just outside of our seeing eyes). That it is being played out in a time line and it includes our being active in this battle. I believe that as the bible says in Daniel 12:4, but you Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go to and fro and knowledge will increase... The Genesis 6 scripture has always been a eye sore to the Church since the bible was first canonized and they excluded the book of Enoch because it brought to light the "nephilim" in full detail. For 2 thousand years there has only been minor eruptions of these tamperings, but as we approach the "end of these end times" it is important this scripture in Gen 3:15, 6, be opened to our understanding. God never intended for us to be ignorant about satans devices... Blessings,

Zayit! Praise the Lord someone is on the same page as I am.. I have been deep in this for the last 5 years. It is all about Genesis 3:15. Satan has tried so many tactics through out history to overthrow the plan of God. You see before I was saved I had an experiece with the so called "lights in the sky" (back in the day they were refered to as "star gods") and them also appearing as "men". I went through a spiritual battle and seen into the realm that we have been protected from seeing. I had crossed the God given barrier in my mind through drugs and occult activity. So finding the answer to this has been personal for me. I have been driven to make sense out of something most people scoff at. I lived in the twilight zone and couldn't find the truth or anyone who could tell me why this was happening to me.. Talk about living in terror.. my everyday life was constant torment and fear. What most people don't know of how many people are going through he same things as I did. Most of them either end up in mental institutions or in prison medicated to the hilt to help them forget.

The Return of the Nephilim? Genesis 6. The straightforward presentation of the text seems to clearly portray a strange union of fallen angels with women to produce a hybrid race called the "Nephilim," or fallen ones. Far beyond simply a misunderstanding of the forthright presentation of the text, the "Sethite" view obscures apprehension of the prophetic Scriptures. Post-Flood Occurrences Regarding the Nephilim, Genesis 6:4 also includes the haunting phrase, "...and also after that...." Apparently these strange events were not confined just to the period before the Flood. We find that there seems to be some recurrence of those things which resulted in unusual "giants" appearing in subsequent periods later in the Old Testament narrative, specifically the giant-races of Canaan. There were a number of tribes such as the Rephaim, the Emim, the Horim, and Zamsummim, that were giants. The kingdom of Og, the King of Bashan, was the "land of the giants." Later, we also find Arba, Anak, and his seven sons (the "Anakim") also as giants, along with the famed Goliath and his four brothers. When God had revealed to Abraham that the land of Canaan was to be given to him, Satan had over 400 years to plant his "mine field" of Nephilim! When Moses sent his twelve spies to reconnoiter the Land of Canaan, they came back with the report of giants in the land. (The term used was Nephilim.) Their fear of those terrifying creatures resulted in their being relegated to wandering in the wilderness for 38 years. When Joshua and the nation Israel later entered the land of Canaan, they were instructed to wipe out every man, woman and child of certain tribes. That strikes us as disturbingly severe. It would seem that in the Land of Canaan, there again was a "gene pool problem." These Rephaim, Nephilim, and others seem to have been established as an advance guard to obstruct Israel's possession of the Promised Land. Was this also a stratagem of Satan? The Days of Noah Perhaps the most direct prophetic reference involving these things was the peculiar warning of our Lord Jesus Himself: And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Luke 17:26 What does that mean? He also warned: And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. Luke 21:25,26 (emphasis added) (The late Walter Martin loved to include a "flying saucer" gesture with his hand when quoting this verse!) Is it possible that the UFOs - and their occupants - are part of an end-time scenario? The Miry Clay of Daniel 2 The famous dream of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel Chapter 2 appears to lay out all of Gentile history until God ultimately intervenes and sets up His own kingdom. But what is represented by the "miry clay" in this image? It seems to be strangely mixed-but not completely-with the iron in the dream. The term "miry clay" refers to clay made from dust, a Biblical idiom which suggests death. ) When Daniel interprets this for us he makes an especially provocative allusion in verse 43: And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. Daniel 2:43 As he switches to a personal pronoun, they, "shall mingle themselves with the seed of men..." This is extremely suggestive when viewed in light of the warning of our Lord in Luke 17:26, ostensibly directing us to look more closely at Genesis 6. Just what (or who) are "mingling with the seed of men?" These would seem to refer to some beings who are not the seed of men themselves! Could this be a hint of a return to the mischief of Genesis 6? It staggers the mind to consider the potential significance of Daniel's passage and its implications. Are these "aliens" so prolific that they constitute a political constituency? Will there be UFO incidents as part of a carefully orchestrated program to lead us toward a political agenda? Or has it started already? Are the UFOs, and the increasingly widespread abductions, part of the preparations for this scenario? Could all this involve a return to the strange events of "the Days of Noah?"

An interesting book you might like, The Nephilim and the Pyramid of the Apocalypse, by Patrick Heron Blessings

QUOTE(Ayin Jade @ Jul 8 2005, 06:05 PM) Whether ufos, or demons, I view it as a deception to take our minds off Christ. Now if they are demons and visibly real, then focusing on them is also harmful, in my opinion. Ive seen some people get so involved in demons and ufos, that they lose sight of what matters: the gospel of Christ and saving souls. Your experience sounds to be second hand "passed around information", not hands on experience. If knowing the deception used by satan in the last days is not relevant to saving souls of those who are decieved, I don't know what is! Maybe these lost people do not effect your ministry, but they do mine.. I guess that is why I have been sent to those who have been tormented and afflicted. To fail to validate them and have a BIBLICAL answer to what has happened to them, will get a door shut in your face to witness. Blessings

Jade~ "In the mouths of two or three witnesses every word shall be established." In Biblical matters, it is essential to always compare Scripture with Scripture. The New Testament confirmations in Jude and 2 Peter are impossible to ignore. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5 Peter's comments even establishes the time of the fall of these angels to the days of the Flood of Noah. Even Peter's vocabulary is provocative. Peter uses the term Tartarus, here translated "hell." This is the only place that this Greek term appears in the Bible. Tartarus is a Greek term for "dark abode of woe"; "the pit of darkness in the unseen world." As used in Homer's Iliad, it is "...as far beneath hades as the earth is below heaven`." In Greek mythology, some of the demigods, Chronos and the rebel Titans, were said to have rebelled against their father, Uranus, and after a prolonged contest they were defeated by Zeus and were condemned into Tartarus. The Epistle of Jude also alludes to the strange episodes when these "alien" creatures intruded themselves into the human reproductive process: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6,7 The allusions to "going after strange flesh," keeping "not their first estate," having "left their own habitation," and "giving themselves over to fornication," seem to clearly fit the alien intrusions of Genesis 6. (The term for habitation, oivkhth,rion, refers to their heavenly bodies from which they had disrobed.) These allusions from the New Testament would seem to be fatal to the "Sethite" alternative in interpreting Genesis 6. If the intercourse between the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" were merely marriage between Sethites and Cainites, it seems impossible to explain these passages, and the reason why some fallen angels are imprisoned and others are free to roam the heavenlies. Post-Flood Implications The strange offspring also continued after the flood: "There were Nephilim in the earth in those days, and also after that..."The "Sethite" view fails to meaningfully address the prevailing conditions "also after that." It offers no insight into the presence of the subsequent "giants" in the land of Canaan. One of the disturbing aspects of the Old Testament record was God's instructions, upon entering the land of Canaan, to wipe out every man, woman, and child of certain tribes inhabiting the land. This is difficult to justify without the insight of a "gene pool problem" from the remaining Nephilim, Rephaim, et al., which seems to illuminate the difficulty. Prophetic Implications Another reason that an understanding of Genesis 6 is so essential is that it also is a prerequisite to understanding (and anticipating) Satan's devices and, in particular, the specific delusions to come upon the whole earth as a major feature of end-time prophecy.

Spritman! It is an end time deception that of course encompasses the 'new age' and other occultic type of religion, especially pharmasuiticals. (end time prophesy, sorceries in Rev) Another door for this dimension is thru the increase of drug use, legal and our excessive RX usage. I minister in prison and I have heard of the most terrifying experiences with this demonic dimension. It is through this "meth" (crank) epidemic. It is the only drug I have witnessed (first hand) that brings down the God given barrier in the mind that separates the things we should not see. One of the common factors to ALL of these is the "lights at night". So it is not just my opinion I am writting here, it entails something that is OCCURING right now nation wide. No little green men from centarus, but same old demonic forces dressed up for the tecnological age we are in.

The Angels that Sinned There is a great deal revealed in the Bible about angels. They can appear in human form, they spoke as men, took men by the hand, even ate men's food, are capable of direct physical combat, some are the principal forces behind the world powers. They don't marry (in Heaven), but apparently are (or were) capable of much mischief. The strange events of Genesis Chapter 6 are also referred to in the New Testament. Peter refers to events preceding the flood of Noah: "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment..." 2 Peter 2:4 (Peter uses the term tartarus, here translated as hell. This was a Greek term for "the dark abode of woe, the pit of darkness in the unseen world." Homer's Iliad portrays tartarus "as far below hades as the earth is below Heaven...") Also, in Jude, it mentions them: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 6,7. Scripture warns against meddling with the spirit world. The punishment which overtook the angels that sinned was to emphasize the serious nature of apostasy: beings of a higher order than ours have been hurled down into a dark place of confinement where they have remained for thousands of years. God has not changed His attitude toward them; time has not mitigated the seriousness of their sin. False teachers are prewritten into condemnation. The "Sons of God" Return? There are many who believe that the recent "alien" involvements are also demonic and are just another precursor to the end-time. Some also believe that the Coming World Leader (for more information on the Coming World Leader, see our Briefing Package) may boast of an "alien connection." It would be consistent from what else we can infer from Scripture. (The Restrainer of II Thessalonians 2 may be restraining far more than we have any suspicion of! When He is removed, the world is in for some astonishing surprises!) In the meantime, what are our weapons of protection against such things? We do, indeed, "wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Our armor is well defined in Ephesians 6:10-17.

Days of Noah~ (return of the nephilim) There continues to be a flow of articles, books, and entertainment programs dealing with UFO's, aliens, and the like.1 Many wonder if there is a connection or relationship to the prediction of our Lord in Luke 17:26: "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of Man." The emergence of the "Nephilim" was what brought about the Flood of Noah. Who were they? Is the current interest in the possibility of "alien" involvements some how of Biblical relevance? The Nephilim Genesis 6 indicates that the "sons of God" (B'nai Elohim) took wives of the "daughters of men," which gave birth to the "Nephilim." What on earth was going on? The B'nai Elohim is a term that refers to angels. It occurs four times in the Old Testament 2 and is rendered "Angels of God" in the ancient Septuagin translation.3 The intrusion of certain angels into the human family resulted in unnatural offspring termed Nephilim, which derives from the Hebrew naphal (to fall), or the Fallen Ones. (The Greek Septuagint renders this term gigantes, which actually means "earth-born." This is often misunderstood to mean "giants"--which they also happen to have been, incidentally.)

I guess if you are where you haven't dealt with people who have had experiences it would not be an important subject. But as someone who has had first hand experience with this "other dimention", it is real and important. Because portions of this subject and related matters touch upon issues of demonology it has been objected that "we should focus our attention on Christ not on the Devil." Furthermore, if our victory as believers is to be complete, it is incumbent upon us to study all of the Scriptures, for as in any military engagement a knowledge of the enemy is necessary. That we will be engaged with this enemy is of a certainty pointed out by the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 6:10-18. Finally, our Lord Himself exhorts us to study the details of that early age, the likes of which will be repeated shortly before His second coming, as the days of Noah. We can but reply that all of Scripture is given to us by the love and wisdom of God and it must be of essential value and importance to accurately understand it if we are to know the full counsel of His revelation. My desire to "save souls' is not depleted due to my interest in the truth behind UFO's. Matter of fact, it only serves to make me more aware of the seriousness of the times. Blessings, Karen

The other dimentions are being opened to some. Those who have been eye witnesses to them. Have you read any of the sites I have posted?

IR~no, just in my pictures. Do I need to put in in an on line photo site? I think I have it in yahoo... will that work?

All I keep getting is an error?? HELP???

More info~ Physics and the Bible (link deleted)

Well I am one who believes in the demonic realm and know that these are from there. Interesting article for those who are curious.. (links deleted)

Personaly I have always felt Clinton and Hilary are somehow involved in the end time scenario.. But, hey, who am I?

The original intent of the topic was not to start a controversy over separation of church and state. Rep vs dem. But who would have thought 50 years ago that there would have been oil under them sand dunes in the middle east??? Just a reflection to lighten the topic..

To just add a book reference for Rev Turmoil that may lend good Christian guidance on what the Lord requires of us (His children) reguarding those in authority. The aurthor is John Bevere and the name of the book is "Under Cover". It is a really excellent book about how we are to understand the authorities given over us by God. Our negative and slanderous judgements and opinions only bring the words to rest back upon us.. Prov 26:2 like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow, an undeserved curse does not come to rest. Many blessings, Karen

Interesting article I thought I would share it for discussion. http://prophecyinthenews.com/articledetail...?Article_ID=154 Karen

Thanks other one.. I really don't like this ear staple thingie at all! So you are an OKIE? So am I.. where you from? Trinity~I sure agree with you on that one!!

I have a friend that came to see me the other day and was very reluctant about telling me about the ear staple she had got a week prior to help her lose weight. Because of my previous occult/drug involvement, I stay totally away from anything that evens smells new age.. for real.. Personally, it made me aware of the little tactics that the enemy will use merely for a foothold. Seems harmless to her.. after all she is now losing weight. Please give me some comments/ideas that I may be able to share with her.. blessings, Karen

GM..maybe f you would take the time to read some of the articles I have already posted you may have those questions answered. in HIM, Karen