rollinTHUNDER

Hi fotw, I don't believe anyone will be raptured before the tribulation. However, I do agree that not all believers will be ready when the trumpet sounds, so it looks like we have a partial agreement instead of a pre-trib partial rapture. Cheers

Medical people for the same amount of time and much longer have been watching for the next big pandemic. This isnt new. Hi ayin, Nothing in the prophecy suggests that it has to be a new disease to qualify. The bottom line is that one out of every four people on earth will die by war, famine or from the wild beasts (AIDS, Ebola, Swine flu etc...). If that is not gripping enough, there is another prophecy near the end that has another one-third of mankind being killed, which after adding these two together, means that half of the earths population will be killed.

Do you really believe he is clueless ,how about as dumb as a fox? Love,Kwik Never heard of any dumb foxes before. Breaking News from WND: http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/2nd-nurse-in-dallas-diagnosed-with-ebola/

Hi Fez, I see no reason to exclude any of these deadly diseases at this point. 1 3/4 billion people being killed is unlike anything the world has ever seen before. There is a big difference between millions and billions. Cheers

Hi kwik, Yes, most scholars believe the Temple will be rebuilt during the first-half of Daniel's 70th week (7 years), before the abomination of desolation occurs in the middle, which will ignite the great tribulation. I don't see Israel even attempting to rebuild the Temple until the seven year covenant is confirmed. Cheers

Hi Ted, That's a good observation. I can see how these diseases could easily spread like wildfire. And it does not help, knowing that the Obama administration is totally clueless. He has always led us in the wrong direction on just about every important issue that has occurred. Cheers

Hi ayin, Israel was still scattered among the nations in 1918. Cheers

Hi kwik, Your dad sounds an awful lot like my mom. I tell her to be careful repeating the words of others, because many will scoff at His coming, but we were warned to be watchful and ready, knowing that the righteous must live by faith. 2 Peter 3:3-4 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” There is one glaring difference between past generations and the one before us. Israel is now back in the promised land. End time prophecies could not be fulfilled until we saw the fig tree (Israel) blossom again. This is a major clue Jesus gave regarding the signs of His coming, and the generation that sees these signs will certainly not pass away until all of these things are fulfilled (Matt.24:32-34). MRSA could play a part as well, though I'm not sure it comes from the wild beasts. I think Ebola will be much worse, though, because I have a strong hunch this is an airborne disease. I saw on the news this morning that a second healthcare worker in Texas has been infected as well. For what it's worth, the Late Dave Wilkerson prophesied some 20 years ago that a killer disease like Ebola will kill millions in America as part of God's judgment. We believers know that God is not mocked, and many believe that His righteous judgment is already well underway. One interesting side note: The year of the shemitah began on Sept. 24th, according to Jonathan Cahn. That day just so happens to be when the first Ebola victim was reported in the USA. It's time we all start taking the necessary precautions. Cheers

Revelation 6:7-8 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Maybe it's just me, but it sure is looking like the pale horse is getting a head-start on the other horses of the apocalypse. This appears to be plausible, since one-fourth of the world's population will be killed. That is one huge number, which works out to be about 1 3/4 billion people being killed before all is said and done. It appears that this Ebola virus could become a major pandemic and possibly one of the plagues that will be running wild during the time of the end. Ebola is said to come from wild beasts. Add to this the ISIS crisis and the extreme drought and flooding in various places which create famines. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Marv, you send a mixed/confusing message. In a previous post you said the one in the field that was taken was rescued as in rapture, but now you say Matt. 24 is only about the second coming. If this was the second coming, we wouldn't see the Lord sending the angels to gather the elect. We would instead be coming with Him to the war of Armageddon. Furthermore, if we were raptured prior to this time, then we would always be with Him and have no need for angels to gather us continually. We will then be like the angels ourselves, having glorified resurrection bodies. The parable of ten virgins is not about the second coming, and what about Him rewarding His faithful servants who received talents? These have no relation to the second coming, nor would we need to be ready for the second coming. Daniel 12:2 occurs after the tribulation as well. Compare Daniel's time of trouble not seen since the was a nation (Dan. 12:1) to Christ' great tribulation (Matt. 24:21). This is the same time and event, and both also happen after the abomination of desolation (Dan. 11:31-36/Matt. 24:15). The Jews required a sign (1 Cor. 1:22), so the appearing of the sign of the Son of man is the sign that precedes His second coming, and it is none other than the rapture. You can deny it all you want, but Christ laid it all out so beautifully, and in chronological order. Cheers

One question Marv. What do you suppose will happen to those who are left behind? This environment has never changed, but it is not the same environment we see in the parable of the days of Lot. Noah boarded the ark seven days before God sent the flood (rapture), but the same day Lot left Sodom, fire and brimstone rained down and destroyed that city. Noah represents the Church. Lot represents Israel, which will flee to the valley when Christ touches down on the Mount of Olives and destroys the goats nations that He will gather against Jerusalem. How can this scenario be considered imminent when scripture plainly reveals it occurs after both, the abomination of desolation (Matt.24:15), and the tribulation of those days (Matt.24:29-31)??? After the abomination of desolation, those who are in Judea will flee to the mountains, and then this event will ignite the great tribulation. Christ did not discuss any of the details about the tribulation, other than saying it will be the greatest tribulation (world crisis/distress of nations) since the beginning of the world, and never to be equaled again. Some of the newer translations say the nations of the world will mourn when they see the sign of the Son of man, but the KJV plainly says the tribes of the earth will mourn. This is referring to the scattered tribes of Israel who will look up when they see the sign (rapture) and know that their redemption draws near, and they will mourn for the one they have pierced. Read the disciples question in Matthew 24:3 and hopefully you'll see that they were only asking about the sign of His coming and the sign of the end of the age (age of grace). They had no knowledge whatsoever about the millennium at that time, for it wasn't mentioned until John later penned Revelation. So you are really reaching and stretching to make Christ' answer to their question fit your pre-trib theory. In no way did His disciples ask Him about the end of the millennial age. And Christ never told any of them about the millennium. That is only an assumption on your part. Cheers

That's correct. Seven days, not seven years. Cheers RT Yet a one seven (one week or 7 days) can equal 7 prophetic years. In Christ Montana Marv Christ said that His coming will be like it was in the days of Noah. There was no seven year period in Noah's time, nor is there a biblical warrant to change seven days into seven years. This is nothing more than another pre-trib rapture gimmick, much like the claim that apostasy means departure = rapture. Lots of believers are putting a lot of faith in a theory that is not even biblical. Wishing upon the stars! Cheers RT Yet, Matt 24:37 - for as in the "Days of Noah", so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in those days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark, and they new nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away (killed them). You need to show me how this unconditional environment exists during the time of Gods Wrath, Armageddon and then His Second Coming. Gladly Marv, But first, the days of Noah parable/scenario do not exist during God's wrath, Armageddon and second coming. I would remind you that Noah and his family were rescued, just like those who are ready will be rescued from the Day of the Lord's wrath. This is hard for pre-tribbers to see, because they keep insisting that Matthew 24 is dealing with the second coming, which would include Armageddon and the Day of the Lord as well. But we see none of these in chapter 24. We only see the sign of the Son of man immediately after the tribulation of those days and the angels being sent to gather His elect (Matt. 24:29-31), which is the rapture that precedes the Day of the Lord and Armageddon during the second coming. Then He will judge the nations separating the sheep & goats (Matt. 25:31-46), which is also His answer for the sign of the end of the age. In a nutshell, Matthew 24 answers His disciples question (What will be the sign of your coming?); while the end of Matthew 25 answers (and of the end of the age?). (See Matt. 24:3) So basically, Matthew 24 is only half of the story. If that is where you draw your conclusion, you threw the baby out with the bath water. Just remember verse #31 is key in both chapters. Matt. 24:31 = Rapture. Matt. 25:31 = End of age/Second coming/Day of the Lord's wrath/Armageddon. Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Notice those who destroy the earth (goats) are killed after His faithful servants get rewarded, which is after the nations were angry (tribulation). I believe the eating, drinking, marrying and given in marriage is a hidden clue in this parable about those who will be ready (faithful servants) going to the wedding supper. If you'll notice, the following parables all relate to the rapture as well, until you come to Matt. 25:31. Cheers

That's correct. Seven days, not seven years. Cheers RT Yet a one seven (one week or 7 days) can equal 7 prophetic years. In Christ Montana Marv Christ said that His coming will be like it was in the days of Noah. There was no seven year period in Noah's time, nor is there a biblical warrant to change seven days into seven years. This is nothing more than another pre-trib rapture gimmick, much like the claim that apostasy means departure = rapture. Lots of believers are putting a lot of faith in a theory that is not even biblical. Wishing upon the stars! Cheers

That's correct. Seven days, not seven years. Cheers

Yes, this is the pre-tribbers latest ploy. It looks like re-direction via changing the definition of some terms. Not to worry, though, they will know soon enough, when the seven year covenant is confirmed and they are still here along with the rest of us. apostasy = departure = rapture I could see, maybe, where Israel departs from waiting for her true Messiah, and instead receives one who comes in his own name; or even many departing the faith when the covenant is confirmed and they are still here, but the falling away is definitely not the rapture. Or maybe, just maybe the law of gravity will be reversed and they will just fall into the clouds instead of being caught up or gathered by the angels. Cheers

Pre-trib position? I don't think so. Let's read a little more of this passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. You are correct in saying the Thessalonians thought they missed the rapture, but Paul clearly tells them that that day will not come until after a falling away and the abomination of desolation. In other words, we will most definitely see the son of perdition or man of lawlessness claim to be God first. If anything, this passage disproves the pre-trib rapture. And Christ, Himself, warned not to go after false Christ' and false prophets before the sign of the Son of man appears, which is the gathering we see in verse 31 below. Matthew 24:15-31 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Cheers

Matthew 24 is only half of our Lord's answer to His disciples. Matthew 25 was also included. Christ mentions those that are living in Judea after the abomination of desolation (Jews). Then after the tribulation He mentions the sign of His coming, when He be coming in the clouds, and then He will send the angels to gather His elect (Christians who are ready). Then finally, He will return to the earth and judge the nations (sheep and goats - Matt. 25:31-46), this is the sign of the end of the age. Cheers

The anointed one (Christ) was cut off after 69 weeks and had nothing, but the last trump has not blown yet and the fat lady has not started to sing. Christ' coming will most definitely be a dual prophecy. He will be returning to rule and reign with His saints for one thousand years after the tribulation, which will complete the 70th week. His first coming fulfilled the spring feasts and His second coming will fulfill the fall feasts. All doubters can wait outside!!!! :clap: Cheers

The gathering will take place in the clouds, and in the air (1 Thes.4:16-17/ Matt.24:30-31). And only those who are ready (faithful servants) will be attending the wedding supper, but the believers that are caught unaware will be left with the unbelievers (Luke 12:46). Read the whole parable Luke 12:35-48. Cheers

I think you are way out of bounds here, brother. Scripture tells us the great tribulation will last 1260 days, forty-two months and/or three and a half years. The beast will be given authority to continue forty-two months after the abomination of desolation (Rev. 13:5, Dan. 7:25). The Gentiles will tread the holy city underfoot for 42 months (Rev. 11:2). Jerusalem will be trampled until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (Luke 21:24). Furthermore, Israel will remain blinded in part until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (Rom. 11:25). As you can see, none of these things listed above have happened yet, and Israel still has not seen. Cheers

Messianic Jews have already been converted to Christianity. Cheers

By all means, take as much time as you need, sister. And may the good Lord grant you a speedy recovery. Cheers

Hi Marilyn, I don't believe we will see the maturity of the body until we are returning with Christ. This is why, I believe, Christ was repeatedly warning His followers to be ready. But will all believers be ready when He appears? He said He will spit the lukewarm believers out of His mouth. Moreover, if the entire church will be found ready when He comes, then there would be no need for the martyrs, who will be refusing the mark of the beast. Because as we know, these martyrs will also be returning to reign with Christ (Rev.20:4). Just something to nibble on. Cheers

Hi kwik, I'm starting to think this is either an excuse not to try or a cop-out, sister. Since you are torn between two theories, if you applied how the Lord will fulfill the fall feasts, who knows, maybe you will come to a better understanding of what you believe? For me, this tightened up all of the loose nuts and bolts. I believe it has given me more secure footing in a very complex and controversial subject. Cheers

Hi Marilyn, Still not very clear. I'm wondering if you even believe in the rapture. Cheers