tdrehfal

I never said how ev works. But why do things settle down? "Evolution", C, is adapting to the world, B. If B is continuously changing, why should C stop adapting? If C is not changing, wherecometh time? C shouldn't stop adapting at all. But C will still be an adapted C, and not a newly-evolved D.

What do you mean by this? Look at the original hypothetical situation in question. Once the objects are 'sorted' by natural selection in this case, the process stops. No more sorting can take place in this anology. It's not really even a very good way to describe the way you say evolution works.

Ha! 'I can't see it happening so it must not be happening.' Classic. No, that's not what I said. I said that the process described came to a definite END once things 'settled down'.

Best I can come up with is this: http://tektonics.org/af/earthshape.html It's really not quite clear since Hebrew language is so different...

Really? What do they say??? Mutations happen randomly, but then you have natural selection applying a non-random process, "the fittest survives", to that random process. A stochastic process plus a non-stochastic process always equals a non-stochastic process. If you want an example, imagine one of those beaches made of pebbles instead of sand. In the part of the beach subject to the action of the waves, the smaller and lighter pebbles are nearer to the water than the big and heavy pebbles are. You have order - the strength of the waves sorts the pebbles. However, that order arose from disorder through a completely automatic, mindless process. That should give you an idea of how evolution works. Alternatively, imagine a table with a hole in the middle. Over the table there are several objects, some are bigger than the hole while the others are smaller. A random process pushes the objects in random ways, moving them in random directions. Now an then, a small object falls through the hole. After enough time has passed, you have order from disorder: the combination of a random process and a non-random one has sorted the objects. The bigger ones over the table, the smaller ones under. In this case it's even easier to understand the connection, the random process pushing the objects around represents the random mutations, the hole is natural selection which filters out any organism that cannot survive in the environment. Is it a little simpler to understand now? These are basic concepts and natural selection, and mutations (although I really don't believe in BENEFICIAL ONES) do happen. The problem problem with the table anology is that the objects haven't changed. The smaller ones could be said to have been 'killed off' from the table. So you've effectively caused a species of small objects to go completely exctinct and left only the large ones which have 'survived', but are still exactly the same. This kind of thing actually does happen if you put a species in an intricately complex global ecosystem in a place where that species was not meant to be, of course, and hunts another species into extinction, multiplies out of control and ruins the ecosystem. The random process you described could be seen as the input of energy into an open system (the table). Once the system has absorbed that energy it's 'settled down'. How is this any different than sediment forming into different layers based on particle size? What we perceive as 'order' in this case seems to be the exhaustion of available kinetic energy in a system. So I wouldn't say this is how 'evolution happens' but how things can become somewhat orderly once energy settles down. Evolution is supposed to be an ongoing process. Yours came to an end.

Absolutely awesome

In reference to I Chronicles 16:30 which states: Tremble before Him, all the earth; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved. It certainly will not be moved. It can move, but it will not BE moved, unless you think you can knock it out of orbit! It's firmly established in its regular orbital pattern.

This discussion has been had here before. The Bible repeatedly claims the Earth has corners. A circle can't have corners. A sphere can't have corners. So I'm afraid the Bible was in the flat-Earth boat along with everyone else. But I'd like to see the passage where you think it says the Earth is a circle, Floatingaxe. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html There are the passages, and an explanation for 'four corners', which using your COMMON SENSE, you should not need. If the author of a book written today used the phrase 'the four corners of the earth' you wouldn't dare think the author believed in a flat earth. You KNOW better than this.

Well... Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. So technically the expansion of space occured first and 'space itself' is the oldest. This is also 'In the beginning' so we're talking about the creation of TIME here, most likely as well... To be honest as a creationist the Big Bang theory doesn't really seem unreasonable to me, as a scientific way of describing the way God created the universe... But each to his own.

It hasn't stopped. Evolution takes millions and millions of years. There's no way to see it happen. The apes and monkeys that are around today are not the same as the apes and monkeys that were around when early hominid species first evolved. They were different. We didn't evolve from modern-day apes. This depends on the evolutionary model that you subscribe to, it's a matter of phyletic gradualism vs. punctuated equillibrium. If punctuated equillibrium is true, we should theoretically be able to see it take place, somewhere, today. And if we didn't evolve from modern-day apes, why are they referred to by so many as our ancestors, then? And you compare our DNA to theirs, claiming supposedly a 98-99% similiarity (even though you throw out what you guys call 'junk DNA' in the process, which is MOST of the DNA, so who knows what the real number is...) You USE modern-day apes in your evolutionary theory and then claim we didn't evolve from those apes. So I guess people need to stop using apes all together, eh?

These kinds of mutations happen, but I don't know where the 'evolutionary throwback' thinking comes from. We have all this evidence for 'throwbacks' constantly, so is de-evolution the REAL science? why can't we ever ever get an obserable 'evolutionary 'throw-forward' that gives an animal some amazing new ability? It's only fair if these are really 'throwbacks' we should see some of the opposite, so where is it?

Did you read your own criteria for what makes a legitimate prophecy? Like this part: And this is where you want to start?

Nope. It's not, because science is what's limited here. The scientific method can't examine a concept that's only capable of being PERCEIVED (but not tested) by intelligent beings. You can't scientifically prove, by this method, that the great pyramid had a designer, either, though. because the design process is not testable. (we still can't figure out a good way to build this amazing structure with our own modern science, despite the pathetic attempts to prove otherwise!) Nor do you have a time machine to go back and see the designer, we don't know who, specifically, the designer was, and there's really no way to prove the designer existed, either. If the designer DID exist, he/she/it would be long dead. But, we as humans will PERCEIVE by common sense it had a designer. Even recognizing the intelligent design of a watch on the ground is still a HUMAN PERCEPTUAL CONCEPT. (although in the watch case, we could find the designer and compare company products and use the scientific method to prove 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that THEY designed it.) The only thing that comes close to proving ID is the Perry Marshal DNA-IS-A-LANGUAGE (and according to information science, language must come from a concious being, and thusly have a designer...) I subscribe to this, but people refuse to recognize DNA for what it really is, and will deny this as well.

It was "science" that proposed that the world was round. Before that, Christians were certain it was flat and held up by pillars, the "infallible" bible says so! Christians never believed it was 'held up by pillars', although the flatness could be debatable, and there is certainly nothing in the bible that mentions pillars. Besides this, EVERYONE would have believed the world to be flat. The bible gives us hints as to its roundness. Unfortunately, though, I don't think there was a hebrew word for 'sphere' so 'sphere' and 'circle' (which is the way the earth is described in the bible) would be rendered the same in the translation. The bible also says that 'He hangs the earth upon nothing'... pretty good science, considering it is floating in the void of space!

You sure it was God? Not Allah? Brahma? Ahura Mazda? There are so many divine scientists... And this thread is idiotic. Yup! Muhammed is still dead! Buddha is still dead! Zarathustra is still dead! Jesus is still alive!

You know, once you start to read about the Jews, and the history (things like Josephus, antiqituies, the way the Jews thought, etc...) You know we have this idea today that the ancient people were "barbarians" and it was some kind of barbaric culture or something which is simply not true. I'd be willing to bet Adam was 1000x smarter than anyone that lives today, and I think Jewish Wisdom is amazing. They are truly gifted by God being his chosen people, and I think that WE'RE actually more stupid with all of our technology and "acquired knowledge" (which doesn't amount to Wisdom at all) as opposed to the way they thought. It really is quite amazing. And God Bless Isreal.

Because it's a form a slavery; a prison of the mind. The best prison is the prison you don't even realize you're in. People are admitting they don't WANT these thoughts, we Christians don't want them, we don't want to be a slave to disgusting thoughts that are perverse. It's better to bring every thought into the captivity and obedience of Christ. He wants to set you free.

I think it is not quite right to tell your children that Santa is real, at least I believe there is some element of truth to this, because for some kids once they find out its true they might get the mindset "It's dumb to believe in something you can't see". Which is of course sort of like saying it's dumb to have faith. And on the internet I've read plenty of posts from adult atheists who say I don't believe in God just like I don't believe in Santa clause, the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy. Of course every individual is different though.

No ONE book in particular, i'm talking more about a concept of thought-twisting and truth-twisting than one particular book although they all employ these concepts. But an example would be "The God who wasn't there", some video or DVD that claims to (according to some atheists) prove that Jesus never existed. There are also things like "The Jesus Seminar". Which may be more based on ignorance and human arrogance than a deliberate intention to lie... maybe. Then there's things like the "Christ conspiracy" and the ever popular Da Vinci Code... Major point being not the works themselves individually as though one in particular is superior but that they all have a commanlity among them... They twist the truth or just blatantly lie to the exent of absurdity.

I have over the last several months been doing research over the internet about the theory that Jesus somehow was some copycat or myth. If you do your research objectively to find truth, without personal bias, you will come to the same conclusion that I have. Many people, from what I have read, have asserted that demons or the like "knew what was coming" and "Satan as counterfeting the true" based on these assertions of supposed "similarities" between our faith and others. What I HAVE found is a more simplistic answer, albeit hard to swallow by most. The claims of this are simply outright lies; they hold no basis in reality whatsover. The people that write books of this nature may indeed be inspired by a spirit of antchrist or demons, but regardless, they are simply liars, twisting things to an absurd extent. A legendary god that came from a rock to the people that write books such as these (which convenientily appeal to the masses that wish to deny christ and they know will sell) is equated with "The virgin birth." In other words, some stupid legend about how some god came out of a rock is evidence that it is a direct parallel to beliefs of christianity. It's insane. But it makes money, appeals to atheist, the "sciientific" and the majority of society. Appealing to our common sense and objectively and factually evaluating the claims of these so-called scholars will lead us to no other conclusion that these people are just a bunch of fanatical liars. I'd be hard pressed to make a decision wether or not even THEY believe what they write. But money being a factor, In the form of selling books to the masses, I suppose, this is irellevant to them. God Bless.

Though perhaps worse today, the problem with men really started when the first man listened to his wife and ate the forbidden fruit

[ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- . over 1,000,000,000 abortions [i.e. 1st degree murder of the weakest of the weak, the fatherless] worldwide since the U.S.A. Roe v Wade decision in 1973. This made murder of the unborn state sanctioned, state supported, state protected. 1st degree murder. The entire world will is as of it was in the days of Noah, not just the U.S.A. see why people always need to refer to the US being the great evil in the world as though the same attrotcities and sins are not occuring elsewhere. Yet everything evil in the world is somehow the fault of the US. Am I missing something? Is the rest of the world some kind of christian sinless paradise where people are free of sin? I think not. Most of the things that have contributed to the demise of the US originated from an outside source. Eastern religions, Marxism [communism], slavery to the government, anti-semetism, etc. The US has certainly done its share of wrongs, but so has every other nation. I'm tired of hearing about how terrible our nation is as though there's nothing wrong with the rest of humanity and if we suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth it would return to a garden-of-eden like state or something.

I'm assuming you're a genuine believer and have a relationship with Christ. Have you prayed about wether or not God would have you listen to these things? I realize that this seems like an overly simple solution but I would encourage you to do so if you have not. The fact that you posted this here shows that you have at least some concern about the issue. Perhaps there is some conviction about listening to things that you know God wouldn't approve of? I'm sure God will reveal the truth to you about this. I believe it is sin to listen to music like that but I am not here to judge you. Sincerely seek his will concerning the matter.

Remnant said: There it is. The seal of God and the mark of the beast. one denotes worship for the Lord and one denotes worship of the beast. Sabbath(saturday) of the Lord thy God or the Sunday, the mark of the beast. This is so silly its hard to comprehend how anyone could take this seriously. If im praying or worshipping God in an airplane and I happen to cross into a time-zone where its now Sunday i'll have taken the mark of the beast? What possesses people to think this way? It's insane. Anyone can buy or sell on either saturday or sunday.